Leatt Brace

WORCSRacer
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9/3/2009 1:07pm Edited Date/Time 9/3/2009 1:08pm
MXgirl517 wrote:
This may be a controversial topic, but I have noticed lately that a good number of top pros do not wear a Leatt Brace or any...
This may be a controversial topic, but I have noticed lately that a good number of top pros do not wear a Leatt Brace or any type of neck brace. It baffles me that these riders would chose to not wear one. I am not trying to stir up an argument, just curious as to the logic behind it.

For those of you who chose to not wear one, I am curious as to why?

My brother and I never ride without one since we got ours, just as you would never ride without a helmet. Even our friends who are beginner riders wear neck braces.

I've also heard people claim that riders have still gotten hurt wearing them. Other than collarbone breaks, does anyone know the extent of those riders' injuries compared to those riders who weren't wearing a neck brace?

Thanks guys! Smile
Maybe you should have worn a Jofa or Face fender then...
gsxrcr28
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9/3/2009 1:10pm
gsxrcr28 wrote:
I don't see what the argument is here. If you want to wear a neck brace Great, if you don't that is fine also it is...
I don't see what the argument is here. If you want to wear a neck brace Great, if you don't that is fine also it is up to YOU.
WORCSRacer wrote:
The arguement is not about whether to wear one or not that is the riders or parents choice. The argument is that some people just can't...
The arguement is not about whether to wear one or not that is the riders or parents choice.

The argument is that some people just can't admit it is safer to ride with one than without one.
I get ya WORCSRacer.

I know I feel a little bit safer.
sc961
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9/3/2009 1:15pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
Maybe you should have worn a Jofa or Face fender then...
Hey Buddy, I had both of those.

The Jofa would have helped, the face fender was in place but gave way......But did not hurt my colloar bone one damn bit!
Toste
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9/3/2009 1:23pm
sc961 wrote:
Sorry Toots92, didn't want to offend you. Thought I was referencing Nerd, but will try to be more specific next time. BTW, the Leatt isn't a...
Sorry Toots92, didn't want to offend you. Thought I was referencing Nerd, but will try to be more specific next time.

BTW, the Leatt isn't a religion or close to it for me. Just a point of reference from past experience.

I've been racing since 1976, and still move around pretty good. Made it a long time with out any kind of neck protection. Since there is something out there, I'm going to make sure my kids use it in an effort to keep them safe. Just my opinion.

Not a religion or proved by technical data anywhere.
No offense taken here. FYI, if you don't want me (or others) commenting on your posts you can always go the PM route.

The Shop

Nerd
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9/3/2009 1:25pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 1:57am
mooch wrote:
"Heavier Head Injury" ? You talk about needing "data" to prove something, yet you have no issue with whipping up this "heavier head injury" stuff in...
"Heavier Head Injury" ?

You talk about needing "data" to prove something, yet you have no issue with whipping up this "heavier head injury" stuff in an attempt to prove something? C'mon what a crock!.

Regarding your "Heavier Head Injury"... I would hope that all the research you did to dig up data on that expensive helmet would prevent "heavier head injury"!

Still surprised at your lack of scientific data when it comes to choosing the best helmet possible for mx. Seems that your research involves looking at which brand has a good rep and also has the highest price tag attached to it. That's some mighty fine data you use to select a helmet .
It's physics. Energy never disappears. There's a thing called mass-energy, and everything is made up of this. You can turn energy into mass and you can turn mass into energy, but you cannot destroy either one.


So, for example, you put a piece of wood in a fire. It does not disappear, it becomes energy (heat and light) and ash (mass). The energy never goes away, although it does dissipate.


The same goes for the kinetic energy applied to your body when you crash. If you have all of your mass moving at a certain speed (F=MA is the equation of force, which means Force = Mass x Acceleration) and you land on your head, and your head is stopped from buckling in one direction or another, but is forced to take the hit without moving, then more of the force will be delivered directly to your head because it is not dissipated. Imagine punching a wall. Now, imagine punching a wall that is mounted on a frictionless surface. Which will hurt you? The regular wall will break your hand. The other wall probably won't, because the energy will be dissipated by the wall taking your force and moving away from you.


Like these:




Is there any of that which you disagree with?
sc961
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9/3/2009 1:29pm
Toste wrote:
No offense taken here. FYI, if you don't want me (or others) commenting on your posts you can always go the PM route.
No problem with comments and opinons what so ever.

I was responding to a number of things Steve made reference too. That's all. Then you made it sound like I was over the top about the Leatt to the point of it being a religion. Maybe you weren't talking about me, but in this form some times its hard to tell.

Steve is trying hard to make a point, that most everyone already understands. That's all I was trying to say. Nothing more.

BTW, not that it makes any difference but my kids are 29, 19 and 15.. Just a point of reference.

Nerd
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9/3/2009 1:30pm
gsxrcr28 wrote:
I don't see what the argument is here. If you want to wear a neck brace Great, if you don't that is fine also it is...
I don't see what the argument is here. If you want to wear a neck brace Great, if you don't that is fine also it is up to YOU.
WORCSRacer wrote:
The arguement is not about whether to wear one or not that is the riders or parents choice. The argument is that some people just can't...
The arguement is not about whether to wear one or not that is the riders or parents choice.

The argument is that some people just can't admit it is safer to ride with one than without one.
gsxrcr28 wrote:
I get ya WORCSRacer.

I know I feel a little bit safer.
I feel stronger when I drink milk.
Toste
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9/3/2009 1:31pm
It's one thing to value more data and another thing to argue against something with non-data, simply wrong assumptions, or worse, unproveable, irrelevant statements like "So...
It's one thing to value more data and another thing to argue against something with non-data, simply wrong assumptions, or worse, unproveable, irrelevant statements like "So I think maybe part of this is that people want to believe that they're safer from their biggest fear - paralysis - so they can ride without as much fear in the back of their heads. And that's fine. But not all of us have to worry about that fear."



Mooch nailed it.
I don't want to speak out of turn on Nerd's behalf, but I don't think that quote was meant to be some kind of "proof" of the Leatt's ineffectiveness. I think it speaks more to the emotional appeal of the product, which is so commonly used to sing its praises here and elsewhere. At least that's how I read it.
WORCSRacer
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9/3/2009 1:35pm Edited Date/Time 9/3/2009 1:38pm
Nerd wrote:
CTi braces are medical devices, and as such I believe they fall under the jurisdiction of the FDA and their effectiveness for the claims they make...
CTi braces are medical devices, and as such I believe they fall under the jurisdiction of the FDA and their effectiveness for the claims they make must be proven prior to release to the market.
WORCSRacer wrote:
Wrong again Cox.They are a Type 1 device which is a very low hurdle, basically registration... You know why the manufacturer wanted the braces to...
Wrong again Cox.



They are a Type 1 device which is a very low hurdle, basically registration...





You know why the manufacturer wanted the braces to be prescriptive? So insurance would bear some of the cost and therefore they could charge more. True Story.
Nerd wrote:
I'm looking through there and I can't find knee braces. Can you be more specific to the area of that document? Also, I said "I believe"...
I'm looking through there and I can't find knee braces. Can you be more specific to the area of that document?

Also, I said "I believe". I was acknowledging that I wasn't sure.
Yes I can see where you might miss it afterall it's only the first line where it says Device: joint, knee, external brace...
sc961
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9/3/2009 1:36pm
Nerd wrote:
I feel stronger when I drink milk.
Then I would drink more milk..Wink
mooch
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9/3/2009 1:58pm
mooch wrote:
"Heavier Head Injury" ? You talk about needing "data" to prove something, yet you have no issue with whipping up this "heavier head injury" stuff in...
"Heavier Head Injury" ?

You talk about needing "data" to prove something, yet you have no issue with whipping up this "heavier head injury" stuff in an attempt to prove something? C'mon what a crock!.

Regarding your "Heavier Head Injury"... I would hope that all the research you did to dig up data on that expensive helmet would prevent "heavier head injury"!

Still surprised at your lack of scientific data when it comes to choosing the best helmet possible for mx. Seems that your research involves looking at which brand has a good rep and also has the highest price tag attached to it. That's some mighty fine data you use to select a helmet .
Nerd wrote:
It's physics. Energy never disappears. There's a thing called mass-energy, and everything is made up of this. You can turn energy into mass and you can...
It's physics. Energy never disappears. There's a thing called mass-energy, and everything is made up of this. You can turn energy into mass and you can turn mass into energy, but you cannot destroy either one.


So, for example, you put a piece of wood in a fire. It does not disappear, it becomes energy (heat and light) and ash (mass). The energy never goes away, although it does dissipate.


The same goes for the kinetic energy applied to your body when you crash. If you have all of your mass moving at a certain speed (F=MA is the equation of force, which means Force = Mass x Acceleration) and you land on your head, and your head is stopped from buckling in one direction or another, but is forced to take the hit without moving, then more of the force will be delivered directly to your head because it is not dissipated. Imagine punching a wall. Now, imagine punching a wall that is mounted on a frictionless surface. Which will hurt you? The regular wall will break your hand. The other wall probably won't, because the energy will be dissipated by the wall taking your force and moving away from you.


Like these:




Is there any of that which you disagree with?
Yep, I disagree with the way that in your mind you're at times able to connect some kind of imaginary dots when it appears to play in your favor, yet your totally unable to put 2 and 2 together when it doesn't advance your viewpoint. I thought you would have been able to read between the lines of my reply to understand that that was the point I was trying to make.
Nerd
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9/3/2009 1:58pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
Wrong again Cox.They are a Type 1 device which is a very low hurdle, basically registration... You know why the manufacturer wanted the braces to...
Wrong again Cox.



They are a Type 1 device which is a very low hurdle, basically registration...





You know why the manufacturer wanted the braces to be prescriptive? So insurance would bear some of the cost and therefore they could charge more. True Story.
Nerd wrote:
I'm looking through there and I can't find knee braces. Can you be more specific to the area of that document? Also, I said "I believe"...
I'm looking through there and I can't find knee braces. Can you be more specific to the area of that document?

Also, I said "I believe". I was acknowledging that I wasn't sure.
WORCSRacer wrote:
Yes I can see where you might miss it afterall it's only the first line where it says Device: joint, knee, external brace...
Then as you can see, it also requires that the manufacturer keep a complete file of records and complaint files for the device, so that if there comes a time when a lot of people are claiming it doesn't do what the device manufacturer claims it does, there will be a record to hold the company responsible.
Shenzi
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9/3/2009 2:01pm
It's one thing to value more data and another thing to argue against something with non-data, simply wrong assumptions, or worse, unproveable, irrelevant statements like "So...
It's one thing to value more data and another thing to argue against something with non-data, simply wrong assumptions, or worse, unproveable, irrelevant statements like "So I think maybe part of this is that people want to believe that they're safer from their biggest fear - paralysis - so they can ride without as much fear in the back of their heads. And that's fine. But not all of us have to worry about that fear."



Mooch nailed it.
Toste wrote:
I don't want to speak out of turn on Nerd's behalf, but I don't think that quote was meant to be some kind of "proof" of...
I don't want to speak out of turn on Nerd's behalf, but I don't think that quote was meant to be some kind of "proof" of the Leatt's ineffectiveness. I think it speaks more to the emotional appeal of the product, which is so commonly used to sing its praises here and elsewhere. At least that's how I read it.
I don't think Nerd is wanting to say that the Leatt is ineffective. I agree with Toste's above comment's.

a product like the Leatt will always be, due to its conception and the way it works, in between assumptions and wrong assumptions, depending on which side you stand. Riders like Jake Moss, Chris Blaise, Esteve Pujol and some less famous broke their backs and got paralyzed below the navel, or lost temporary use of leg, while wearing a Leatt brace. Do we assume the brace had something to do with it? Some doctors in Europe, and in the US, do. Do they assume wrongly? maybe yes, maybe no. Does it mean the brace saved their neck during those crashes? Maybe yes, maybe no, the assumption that it did has as much value as the assumption that it broke the backs. Did it break the backs while protecting the neck, or wasn't the neck threatened in those cases?
Guess-work, guess-timates, assumption. Any one and every one is right... without data.
Nerd
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9/3/2009 2:02pm
Nerd wrote:
I feel stronger when I drink milk.
sc961 wrote:
Then I would drink more milk..Wink
Well, obviously milk doesn't ACTUALLY make me stronger, but I feel stronger.
Nerd
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9/3/2009 2:03pm
mooch wrote:
"Heavier Head Injury" ? You talk about needing "data" to prove something, yet you have no issue with whipping up this "heavier head injury" stuff in...
"Heavier Head Injury" ?

You talk about needing "data" to prove something, yet you have no issue with whipping up this "heavier head injury" stuff in an attempt to prove something? C'mon what a crock!.

Regarding your "Heavier Head Injury"... I would hope that all the research you did to dig up data on that expensive helmet would prevent "heavier head injury"!

Still surprised at your lack of scientific data when it comes to choosing the best helmet possible for mx. Seems that your research involves looking at which brand has a good rep and also has the highest price tag attached to it. That's some mighty fine data you use to select a helmet .
Nerd wrote:
It's physics. Energy never disappears. There's a thing called mass-energy, and everything is made up of this. You can turn energy into mass and you can...
It's physics. Energy never disappears. There's a thing called mass-energy, and everything is made up of this. You can turn energy into mass and you can turn mass into energy, but you cannot destroy either one.


So, for example, you put a piece of wood in a fire. It does not disappear, it becomes energy (heat and light) and ash (mass). The energy never goes away, although it does dissipate.


The same goes for the kinetic energy applied to your body when you crash. If you have all of your mass moving at a certain speed (F=MA is the equation of force, which means Force = Mass x Acceleration) and you land on your head, and your head is stopped from buckling in one direction or another, but is forced to take the hit without moving, then more of the force will be delivered directly to your head because it is not dissipated. Imagine punching a wall. Now, imagine punching a wall that is mounted on a frictionless surface. Which will hurt you? The regular wall will break your hand. The other wall probably won't, because the energy will be dissipated by the wall taking your force and moving away from you.


Like these:




Is there any of that which you disagree with?
mooch wrote:
Yep, I disagree with the way that in your mind you're at times able to connect some kind of imaginary dots when it appears to play...
Yep, I disagree with the way that in your mind you're at times able to connect some kind of imaginary dots when it appears to play in your favor, yet your totally unable to put 2 and 2 together when it doesn't advance your viewpoint. I thought you would have been able to read between the lines of my reply to understand that that was the point I was trying to make.
You just said nothing. Can you actually refute anything that I said in the post above yours?
Nerd
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9/3/2009 2:08pm
It's one thing to value more data and another thing to argue against something with non-data, simply wrong assumptions, or worse, unproveable, irrelevant statements like "So...
It's one thing to value more data and another thing to argue against something with non-data, simply wrong assumptions, or worse, unproveable, irrelevant statements like "So I think maybe part of this is that people want to believe that they're safer from their biggest fear - paralysis - so they can ride without as much fear in the back of their heads. And that's fine. But not all of us have to worry about that fear."



Mooch nailed it.
Toste wrote:
I don't want to speak out of turn on Nerd's behalf, but I don't think that quote was meant to be some kind of "proof" of...
I don't want to speak out of turn on Nerd's behalf, but I don't think that quote was meant to be some kind of "proof" of the Leatt's ineffectiveness. I think it speaks more to the emotional appeal of the product, which is so commonly used to sing its praises here and elsewhere. At least that's how I read it.
Of course that's what it was.

It's a natural human instinct to want to take things on faith because it's emotionally satisfying to do so. If you're really afraid of dogs, you might be able to be convinced that a certain color shirt will make dogs leave you alone, and then you might wear that shirt when you're out walking around "just in case it's true" because, hey, what can it hurt?

It's natural.

But this is about why the person should get data proving that the shirt will keep dogs away, because at some point, a dog may attack them and they may be a little more careless about the dog because they think the shirt is doing its job.

Data is the point. We may prove that the Leatt Brace is highly functional and reduces the risk of cervical injury without increasing the risk of any other injury, at which point it's a no-brainer and everyone should own one, or one like it.

But why are so many people fighting against the need for this data? That seems peculiar to me.
sc961
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9/3/2009 2:21pm
Nerd wrote:
I feel stronger when I drink milk.
sc961 wrote:
Then I would drink more milk..Wink
Nerd wrote:
Well, obviously milk doesn't ACTUALLY make me stronger, but I feel stronger.
How do you know milk doesn't make you stronger?

Kinda funny how this thread got to people saying what you meant, saying what I meant, and now we are talking about milk.

Gotta love a good thread!
Racer92
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9/3/2009 2:28pm
Nerd:

Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and it annoys the pig.
Shenzi
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9/3/2009 2:31pm
Racer92 wrote:
Nerd:

Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and it annoys the pig.
that's a good one.
mooch
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9/3/2009 6:25pm
Nerd wrote:
It's physics. Energy never disappears. There's a thing called mass-energy, and everything is made up of this. You can turn energy into mass and you can...
It's physics. Energy never disappears. There's a thing called mass-energy, and everything is made up of this. You can turn energy into mass and you can turn mass into energy, but you cannot destroy either one.


So, for example, you put a piece of wood in a fire. It does not disappear, it becomes energy (heat and light) and ash (mass). The energy never goes away, although it does dissipate.


The same goes for the kinetic energy applied to your body when you crash. If you have all of your mass moving at a certain speed (F=MA is the equation of force, which means Force = Mass x Acceleration) and you land on your head, and your head is stopped from buckling in one direction or another, but is forced to take the hit without moving, then more of the force will be delivered directly to your head because it is not dissipated. Imagine punching a wall. Now, imagine punching a wall that is mounted on a frictionless surface. Which will hurt you? The regular wall will break your hand. The other wall probably won't, because the energy will be dissipated by the wall taking your force and moving away from you.


Like these:




Is there any of that which you disagree with?
mooch wrote:
Yep, I disagree with the way that in your mind you're at times able to connect some kind of imaginary dots when it appears to play...
Yep, I disagree with the way that in your mind you're at times able to connect some kind of imaginary dots when it appears to play in your favor, yet your totally unable to put 2 and 2 together when it doesn't advance your viewpoint. I thought you would have been able to read between the lines of my reply to understand that that was the point I was trying to make.
Nerd wrote:
You just said nothing. Can you actually refute anything that I said in the post above yours?
Here's what I disagree with...

How is it that you need data to substantiate wearing a brace, yet it's fine using an excuse about "heavier head injuries" as a reason to not wear a neck brace when you have no real world data to support that "heavier head injuries" are occurring when wearing a neck brace.

Your whole "heavy head injuries" theory which was supposed to be an argument against wearing a neck brace states that the brace prevents the neck from absorbing the impact of lawn darting...right? That being the case, it seems that your own argument is stating the obvious...that neck braces do what they're supposed to do. Don't take offense but with this particular topic, you come across as a guy who's book smart ("I need data") but short on common sense.

Oh, by the way. I'm perfectly fine with folks NOT wearing neck braces and would never get into an argument with someone about their need to wear one. However, like Racer92s pig whose being trained to sing, I find it annoying when someone goes out of there way to argue the point that there's no need to wear certain pieces of safety equipment when they don't have data to support their argument.

rc4187
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9/3/2009 6:32pm
mooch wrote:
Here's what I disagree with... How is it that you need data to substantiate wearing a brace, yet it's fine using an excuse about "heavier head...
Here's what I disagree with...

How is it that you need data to substantiate wearing a brace, yet it's fine using an excuse about "heavier head injuries" as a reason to not wear a neck brace when you have no real world data to support that "heavier head injuries" are occurring when wearing a neck brace.

Your whole "heavy head injuries" theory which was supposed to be an argument against wearing a neck brace states that the brace prevents the neck from absorbing the impact of lawn darting...right? That being the case, it seems that your own argument is stating the obvious...that neck braces do what they're supposed to do. Don't take offense but with this particular topic, you come across as a guy who's book smart ("I need data") but short on common sense.

Oh, by the way. I'm perfectly fine with folks NOT wearing neck braces and would never get into an argument with someone about their need to wear one. However, like Racer92s pig whose being trained to sing, I find it annoying when someone goes out of there way to argue the point that there's no need to wear certain pieces of safety equipment when they don't have data to support their argument.

Pretty sure his argument is he doesn't know. He doesn't know if the brace puts him at more risk for other injuries to help prevent one type. There is no real statistical data other than a few testimonials and that people "feel" safer with it. That is his argument. He says it may work and it may not, But there's not enough evidence for it to justify "his" discomfort while wearing it. And that's his decision.
mooch
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9/3/2009 6:43pm Edited Date/Time 9/3/2009 6:49pm
rc4187 wrote:
Pretty sure his argument is he doesn't know. He doesn't know if the brace puts him at more risk for other injuries to help prevent one...
Pretty sure his argument is he doesn't know. He doesn't know if the brace puts him at more risk for other injuries to help prevent one type. There is no real statistical data other than a few testimonials and that people "feel" safer with it. That is his argument. He says it may work and it may not, But there's not enough evidence for it to justify "his" discomfort while wearing it. And that's his decision.
As mentioned in the last paragraph of my last reply...of course it's Nerds decision whether or not it's beneficial to wear one.

It's a personal decision for everyone.

As mentioned, I question the need for folks like Nerd arguing so heavily against the need to wear a piece of safety equipment.
WORCSRacer
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9/3/2009 7:00pm Edited Date/Time 9/3/2009 7:29pm
mooch wrote:
Here's what I disagree with... How is it that you need data to substantiate wearing a brace, yet it's fine using an excuse about "heavier head...
Here's what I disagree with...

How is it that you need data to substantiate wearing a brace, yet it's fine using an excuse about "heavier head injuries" as a reason to not wear a neck brace when you have no real world data to support that "heavier head injuries" are occurring when wearing a neck brace.

Your whole "heavy head injuries" theory which was supposed to be an argument against wearing a neck brace states that the brace prevents the neck from absorbing the impact of lawn darting...right? That being the case, it seems that your own argument is stating the obvious...that neck braces do what they're supposed to do. Don't take offense but with this particular topic, you come across as a guy who's book smart ("I need data") but short on common sense.

Oh, by the way. I'm perfectly fine with folks NOT wearing neck braces and would never get into an argument with someone about their need to wear one. However, like Racer92s pig whose being trained to sing, I find it annoying when someone goes out of there way to argue the point that there's no need to wear certain pieces of safety equipment when they don't have data to support their argument.

rc4187 wrote:
Pretty sure his argument is he doesn't know. He doesn't know if the brace puts him at more risk for other injuries to help prevent one...
Pretty sure his argument is he doesn't know. He doesn't know if the brace puts him at more risk for other injuries to help prevent one type. There is no real statistical data other than a few testimonials and that people "feel" safer with it. That is his argument. He says it may work and it may not, But there's not enough evidence for it to justify "his" discomfort while wearing it. And that's his decision.
Data data data that's all Cox can say. Here is some anecdotal and factual data:



There have been many statements by medical professionals that they believe the brace works.



Steve Cox is a MOTOJOURNALIST not a trained medical professional. Steve Cox is not a biomechanical engineer but within this thread He has tried to discredit the testing that Dr. Leatt has done, who by the way is a Neurosurgeon and has enlisted the services of Biomechanical engineers to develop his product, as being nothing more than marketing tools and without merit.



The Leatt Brace does in fact shift energy away from the cervical spine in the vast majority of impacts.



The Cervical Spine is a weak link and a common pathway to SCI's.



Ask yourself one question if you knew you were going to sustain an impact to the cervical spine would you want to be wearing one or not wearing one.



I don't believe the use of Leatt type Braces should be mandatory but I also think it is the height of stupidity to try and defend the position that we don't know if they are beneficial because we don't have unique focused "data" for their use in motorsport.
JOHN CHOATE
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9/3/2009 7:05pm
I thought I saw the checkered flag on this thread about 2 pages ago!!!
sc961
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9/3/2009 7:14pm
That was a double white flag.. The finish line dude screwed the pooch..
mooch
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9/3/2009 7:15pm
I thought I saw the checkered flag on this thread about 2 pages ago!!!
Darn, I missed it....who won? Smile
sc961
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9/3/2009 7:26pm
Sorry Mooch, nobody won. This is a vital thread!
CamP
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Colleyville, TX, USA
9/3/2009 8:29pm
Nerd, you should contact Dr. Leatt directly as he has the data that you are requesting. This comes from Dr. Mark Sanders, an orthopedic surgeon from Houston, whom was an early skeptic of the brace until he was able to review Dr. Leatt's actual test data and then subsequently became a proponent of the brace. You should understand that there is such a thing as too much information for the general masses.
Nerd
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USA
9/4/2009 1:24am
CamP wrote:
Nerd, you should contact Dr. Leatt directly as he has the data that you are requesting. This comes from Dr. Mark Sanders, an orthopedic surgeon from...
Nerd, you should contact Dr. Leatt directly as he has the data that you are requesting. This comes from Dr. Mark Sanders, an orthopedic surgeon from Houston, whom was an early skeptic of the brace until he was able to review Dr. Leatt's actual test data and then subsequently became a proponent of the brace. You should understand that there is such a thing as too much information for the general masses.
Too much information for the general masses? Why would you say that?
Nerd
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9/4/2009 1:29am
mooch wrote:
Here's what I disagree with... How is it that you need data to substantiate wearing a brace, yet it's fine using an excuse about "heavier head...
Here's what I disagree with...

How is it that you need data to substantiate wearing a brace, yet it's fine using an excuse about "heavier head injuries" as a reason to not wear a neck brace when you have no real world data to support that "heavier head injuries" are occurring when wearing a neck brace.

Your whole "heavy head injuries" theory which was supposed to be an argument against wearing a neck brace states that the brace prevents the neck from absorbing the impact of lawn darting...right? That being the case, it seems that your own argument is stating the obvious...that neck braces do what they're supposed to do. Don't take offense but with this particular topic, you come across as a guy who's book smart ("I need data") but short on common sense.

Oh, by the way. I'm perfectly fine with folks NOT wearing neck braces and would never get into an argument with someone about their need to wear one. However, like Racer92s pig whose being trained to sing, I find it annoying when someone goes out of there way to argue the point that there's no need to wear certain pieces of safety equipment when they don't have data to support their argument.

rc4187 wrote:
Pretty sure his argument is he doesn't know. He doesn't know if the brace puts him at more risk for other injuries to help prevent one...
Pretty sure his argument is he doesn't know. He doesn't know if the brace puts him at more risk for other injuries to help prevent one type. There is no real statistical data other than a few testimonials and that people "feel" safer with it. That is his argument. He says it may work and it may not, But there's not enough evidence for it to justify "his" discomfort while wearing it. And that's his decision.
At least with you hear summing up my point it makes me feel better because I know I'm not crazy.

Why few others can seem to grasp this, or make up arguments or things I didn't say (WORCSRacer), I don't understand.

I'm not saying it doesn't work. I'm not saying it does, either. I'm saying that it may or may not, but we don't know until we see the data.

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