When do people stop being "kids"?

shaner708
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shaner708 4/21/2012 6:44pm
4/21/2012 6:44pm
shaner708 wrote:
As far as things that happen at the races, I say 16 because I had a job at 16 and I was held responsible for anything...
As far as things that happen at the races, I say 16 because I had a job at 16 and I was held responsible for anything I did. Whether its a pro sport or not it's still a job and IMO the same rules should be applied. Some kid flipping burgers can't say slap a kid in the head.

As for things off the track, my opinion is that you're a "grown up" at 23. Go to a college party or hang out anywhere on a campus and even the seniors still do a lot of foolish things that they will end up regretting. Just my .02
Whoops_Blitzer wrote:
[b]Some kid flipping burgers can't say slap a kid in the head. [/b] A kid flipping burgers CAN'T slap someone in the head? Do you mean...
Some kid flipping burgers can't say slap a kid in the head.

A kid flipping burgers CAN'T slap someone in the head? Do you mean that there would be a consequence if he did?

You know Bogle was fined, right?
Ing wrote:
My guess would be that the burger flipper would lose his job. Did Bogle? That would be like fining the burger flipper $20.
That's the problem right there. In the real world while on the job you are expected to grow up and act like an adult, or be fired.

Oh and bogle was fined $500 is that really supposed to hurt him when he's got a contract, not to mention the purse money he won? Same with Barcia, fined $5,000, but when you make possibly 4 times that amount the same night is that really supposed to hurt?

The whole point of this thread was about when does being a kid end. I think as soon as you have a job and a boss you have to answer to, then you aren't a child. Therefore you shouldn't use that as an excuse when you mess up, because a burger flipper can't use it for an excuse, so why should a motocross racer be able to use it as one?
mxb2
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mxb2 4/21/2012 6:56pm
4/21/2012 6:56pm
Whoops_Blitzer wrote:
[b]Some kid flipping burgers can't say slap a kid in the head. [/b] A kid flipping burgers CAN'T slap someone in the head? Do you mean...
Some kid flipping burgers can't say slap a kid in the head.

A kid flipping burgers CAN'T slap someone in the head? Do you mean that there would be a consequence if he did?

You know Bogle was fined, right?
Ing wrote:
My guess would be that the burger flipper would lose his job. Did Bogle? That would be like fining the burger flipper $20.
shaner708 wrote:
That's the problem right there. In the real world while on the job you are expected to grow up and act like an adult, or be...
That's the problem right there. In the real world while on the job you are expected to grow up and act like an adult, or be fired.

Oh and bogle was fined $500 is that really supposed to hurt him when he's got a contract, not to mention the purse money he won? Same with Barcia, fined $5,000, but when you make possibly 4 times that amount the same night is that really supposed to hurt?

The whole point of this thread was about when does being a kid end. I think as soon as you have a job and a boss you have to answer to, then you aren't a child. Therefore you shouldn't use that as an excuse when you mess up, because a burger flipper can't use it for an excuse, so why should a motocross racer be able to use it as one?
Bingo, x2, pro athletes are so used to having their ass kissed with yes men everywhere and not used to being told no or being responsible because if you are making a company or factory money alot of mistakes will be taken care of with money, exbogle, barcia a small fine and i would bet the team paid it. If you are old enough to accept a paycheck being accountable will come into play, cannot use the age excuse when its convenient.
normanmx
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normanmx 4/21/2012 7:22pm
4/21/2012 7:22pm Edited Date/Time 4/21/2012 7:23pm
NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....As me..... you old farts keep on buying a brand new bike every other year and dont even have time to ride!!!or are to damn tired !!!! so we are all stuck in our kids adventures with an economical willpower,or invest everything ,,all we can to make our young "kids"fullfill OUR FRUSTRATED DREAMS!!! so this =to we will never stop being kids...if in doubt..ask your wife..LOL!!!!
Whoops_Blitzer 4/21/2012 8:39pm
4/21/2012 8:39pm Edited Date/Time 4/21/2012 8:47pm
Whoops_Blitzer wrote:
[b]Some kid flipping burgers can't say slap a kid in the head. [/b] A kid flipping burgers CAN'T slap someone in the head? Do you mean...
Some kid flipping burgers can't say slap a kid in the head.

A kid flipping burgers CAN'T slap someone in the head? Do you mean that there would be a consequence if he did?

You know Bogle was fined, right?
Ing wrote:
My guess would be that the burger flipper would lose his job. Did Bogle? That would be like fining the burger flipper $20.
shaner708 wrote:
That's the problem right there. In the real world while on the job you are expected to grow up and act like an adult, or be...
That's the problem right there. In the real world while on the job you are expected to grow up and act like an adult, or be fired.

Oh and bogle was fined $500 is that really supposed to hurt him when he's got a contract, not to mention the purse money he won? Same with Barcia, fined $5,000, but when you make possibly 4 times that amount the same night is that really supposed to hurt?

The whole point of this thread was about when does being a kid end. I think as soon as you have a job and a boss you have to answer to, then you aren't a child. Therefore you shouldn't use that as an excuse when you mess up, because a burger flipper can't use it for an excuse, so why should a motocross racer be able to use it as one?
I think the "kid excuse" is just as effective for the burger flipper as it is for the racer. Some will accept it and others won't. The difference could be that there are millions of people that can fill the burger flippers position---so the his boss won't think twice about booting him.

If you want action, talk to Geico Honda.

Edit: In other words, the Kid Excuse is not why Bogle hasn't been fired. It's just a plea asking the media and public to be nice when talking about Bogle so it doesn't reflect poorly on the team.

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plowboy
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plowboy 4/21/2012 9:39pm
4/21/2012 9:39pm
Most of these racers have been at it since age 4. Most have never been to school. Someone mentioned "arrested development" and as far as social interaction and age appropriate behavior...I'd say that for a lot of these "kids" that's a fair appraisal. It takes an exceptional character or some really good parental influence to keep these kids out of trouble. I'm not saying that bad behavior needs to be excused but not to be unexpected. As a totally uneducated guess...I'd say most of the young "kids" are about 5 years behind on the developmental curve.
mikey
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mikey 4/21/2012 9:39pm
4/21/2012 9:39pm
Obviously this question can be answered in a variety of ways and there is no one right answer. For myself, the answer is never. The older I get, the more I ride and more kid-like things I do. I will never change that.
shaner708
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shaner708 4/22/2012 12:34am
4/22/2012 12:34am
Whoops_Blitzer wrote:
I think the "kid excuse" is just as effective for the burger flipper as it is for the racer. Some will accept it and others won't...
I think the "kid excuse" is just as effective for the burger flipper as it is for the racer. Some will accept it and others won't. The difference could be that there are millions of people that can fill the burger flippers position---so the his boss won't think twice about booting him.

If you want action, talk to Geico Honda.

Edit: In other words, the Kid Excuse is not why Bogle hasn't been fired. It's just a plea asking the media and public to be nice when talking about Bogle so it doesn't reflect poorly on the team.
I obviously agree that there are plenty more people out there capable of flipping burgers. I also don't think Geico Honda is the problem. They are sponsor driven and if the sponsors don't want it put to a stop, then why would they see a need to make a change when they are well on their way to sweeping both 250 classes indoors.

I place the blame on two things. Number one is the parenting, and leadership around them. One time I came in from a moto and threw my bike down in frustration. My dad parked me for the entire second half of the season and I never made that mistake again. At the time I was 16 or so, I'm 22 now. I'm not some old timer saying how bad I had it back in the day. I'm not saying that should have been done now obviously at the pro level.

The second reason IMO is the lack of leadership by who runs the series. If our sport wants to grow it needs to get it together and act like it belongs. In any professional sport, there would be suspensions, to deter people from certain actions. Once you make an example of someone I'm sure the rest would fall in line. In pro sports they are generally older though so take college for example. When that Oregon running back punched the Boise State player in the jaw he missed an entire year basically.

I can't draw a parallel to say NASCAR which is more of an accurate comparison, because I do not follow it very closely. I know they fight and have crazy things go down, but I am not sure to what extent they are penalized. I just wish supercross would become giant one day, and under the current system I don't see it.
Whoops_Blitzer 4/22/2012 12:58am
4/22/2012 12:58am
shaner708 wrote:
I obviously agree that there are plenty more people out there capable of flipping burgers. I also don't think Geico Honda is the problem. They are...
I obviously agree that there are plenty more people out there capable of flipping burgers. I also don't think Geico Honda is the problem. They are sponsor driven and if the sponsors don't want it put to a stop, then why would they see a need to make a change when they are well on their way to sweeping both 250 classes indoors.

I place the blame on two things. Number one is the parenting, and leadership around them. One time I came in from a moto and threw my bike down in frustration. My dad parked me for the entire second half of the season and I never made that mistake again. At the time I was 16 or so, I'm 22 now. I'm not some old timer saying how bad I had it back in the day. I'm not saying that should have been done now obviously at the pro level.

The second reason IMO is the lack of leadership by who runs the series. If our sport wants to grow it needs to get it together and act like it belongs. In any professional sport, there would be suspensions, to deter people from certain actions. Once you make an example of someone I'm sure the rest would fall in line. In pro sports they are generally older though so take college for example. When that Oregon running back punched the Boise State player in the jaw he missed an entire year basically.

I can't draw a parallel to say NASCAR which is more of an accurate comparison, because I do not follow it very closely. I know they fight and have crazy things go down, but I am not sure to what extent they are penalized. I just wish supercross would become giant one day, and under the current system I don't see it.
Yeah, I do think it could be the AMA or the parents or team or any number of things. But we keep hearing how this shit wouldn't fly under Mitch...

You say the series needs suspensions in order to be taken seriously and grow. But I'm not sure the series CAN grow with its star riders sitting out. (But I guess that's why they should stop throwing fits, right?Wink )

Anyway, I definitely agree that JB and JB's behavior has been a bit ridiculous. Especially JB's. Like, it's not the end of the world, dude.
Vet57
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Vet57 4/22/2012 6:31am
4/22/2012 6:31am
"Tricks Are For Kids"
mx5471
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mx5471 4/22/2012 4:59pm
4/22/2012 4:59pm
These "kids" just have no idea how to behave. All their lives it's always been about them. From throwing tantrums when they lost a race and blaming it on the bike, to mom trying to get everyone else DQ'd. I wouldn't say that most of the top guys families were rich to begin with, but not exactly poor either. If you have enough money to buy your kid a bike, and take him to the races long enough for him to learn to ride, and discover his talent, and keep progressing long enough for him to get noticed. You have some bucks. Then your kid gets a major sponsor, and your money worries are over. In our day it was Jlaw and Alessi. Jlaw had factory 85's, and Alessi had a Honda store at their compound at the races. Every top 3 rider in the last 10 years has had factory support for everything from training, nutrition, best bikes, best practice facilities and money. Then there's no schooling, and no reality in there lives. If those top guys didn't get that support, some one else would have, and they would have been the top guy. If Barcia and his family had to pay for everything themselves, like privateers do, I doubt he would be winning races. There's a lot of people with talent out there, that could compete, but not with these kids that get all the support. They know you can't beat them, but they still taunt when they pass. Barcia can get around lappers, but he's far ahead, so he screws with them, and it bit him in the ass. What ever there age is, they are kids, because they are uneducated morons, who know nothing about anything. All they know is, it's supposed to all be about me. Someone said on here that they should all switch to stock bikes, and I'm thinking maybe that would be good. It would surely show the talent, and allow those without giant sponsor bucks to be more competitive, and give us better races. They will never stop being kids. It's never their fault. Even if they blow their fortune a couple years after they retire. Somebody did it to them.
gharmon
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gharmon 4/22/2012 8:19pm
4/22/2012 8:19pm
Motocross83 wrote:
I think there's a difference between "age" in law... and then something less definable that varies with the individual (how they themselves were raised, their personal...
I think there's a difference between "age" in law... and then something less definable that varies with the individual (how they themselves were raised, their personal experiences) and what we expect from others.

For instance we all know that at certain age (depending on where you live) you can join the army and then potentially be sent into conflict. In America I think it's either 17 or 18, and 18 in the UK. Technically at that point an 18 year old lad who's just about to go on his first tour into Afghanistan is no different from another soldier who's in exactly the same boat at say, 27 - they're both at a legal age.

But the reality of how people treat each other is different to what a law says. People are going to make fractionally more allowances for the younger guy than they are an older man, despite the fact that neither has an advantage in experience. His fellow soldiers are more likely to forgive certain things because that's just human nature.

We all instinctively know that a person doesn't just suddenly hit a magic age and then overnight automatically act a certain way. Rather it's a progression over time where you have to make the mistakes, move on, learn, relapse etc and then gradually certain personality traits change. That's why we refer to JB as a kid when really he isn't... but in a way he still is.

Though I agree that once someone hits the latter stages of their 20s it becomes a bit too much.
I think that's a pretty good description of how it works. NO set age for sure. And everyone is different. Almost no 18-20 year old kids just become an adult and start acting like one. There is always some hard asses on here that says at 18 you're a grown man and should act like one. I think before most of us start acting 100% grown we are closer to late 20's. Hell most older men 40 + don't even take you serious until then. So yeah I call the barcia's, bogle's, etc. kids. I don't give a shit if they are 20.

They haven't had a chance to develop all that great wisdom us older shits have. Mistakes happen. Now enough is enough i.e. Jlaw.
Hando
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Hando 4/22/2012 8:25pm
4/22/2012 8:25pm
mx5471 wrote:
These "kids" just have no idea how to behave. All their lives it's always been about them. From throwing tantrums when they lost a race and...
These "kids" just have no idea how to behave. All their lives it's always been about them. From throwing tantrums when they lost a race and blaming it on the bike, to mom trying to get everyone else DQ'd. I wouldn't say that most of the top guys families were rich to begin with, but not exactly poor either. If you have enough money to buy your kid a bike, and take him to the races long enough for him to learn to ride, and discover his talent, and keep progressing long enough for him to get noticed. You have some bucks. Then your kid gets a major sponsor, and your money worries are over. In our day it was Jlaw and Alessi. Jlaw had factory 85's, and Alessi had a Honda store at their compound at the races. Every top 3 rider in the last 10 years has had factory support for everything from training, nutrition, best bikes, best practice facilities and money. Then there's no schooling, and no reality in there lives. If those top guys didn't get that support, some one else would have, and they would have been the top guy. If Barcia and his family had to pay for everything themselves, like privateers do, I doubt he would be winning races. There's a lot of people with talent out there, that could compete, but not with these kids that get all the support. They know you can't beat them, but they still taunt when they pass. Barcia can get around lappers, but he's far ahead, so he screws with them, and it bit him in the ass. What ever there age is, they are kids, because they are uneducated morons, who know nothing about anything. All they know is, it's supposed to all be about me. Someone said on here that they should all switch to stock bikes, and I'm thinking maybe that would be good. It would surely show the talent, and allow those without giant sponsor bucks to be more competitive, and give us better races. They will never stop being kids. It's never their fault. Even if they blow their fortune a couple years after they retire. Somebody did it to them.
no way dude, money cant make you faster!


in all seriousness, this is a spot on post. its ridiculous anyone here claims these kids dont come from SOME money..
Old Mate
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Old Mate 4/22/2012 8:40pm
4/22/2012 8:40pm
35smom wrote:
x1000. Every sport has rich kids in it. Having money in this sport doesnt make you fast... BTW...Kari LOVE the profile pic!! No matter what anyone...
x1000. Every sport has rich kids in it. Having money in this sport doesnt make you fast...

BTW...Kari LOVE the profile pic!! No matter what anyone says those Cobra days were the best!!
Hando wrote:
yeah..poor people take their kids to lorettas even if they;re spending ALL their money, they still got it this ain't no poor mans sport [anymore]
yeah..poor people take their kids to lorettas

even if they;re spending ALL their money, they still got it

this ain't no poor mans sport [anymore]
Sully22 wrote:
I can name 3 guys, that many consider the best riders in the world....ever...that were not rich at all Carmichael McGrath Stewart Hando....you are showing your...
I can name 3 guys, that many consider the best riders in the world....ever...that were not rich at all

Carmichael
McGrath
Stewart

Hando....you are showing your ignorance bud.
Hando, Just on ya rich comment. I coach in aus fulltime and have for 20 years. I havnt seen a rich kid make it in this sport over here in all that time. A few well off outback country kids have done well but no spiolt bratts. Metty,Moss boys and Chad are definatly not from well off families. Chads dad is a hard working concreator. I had 3 labouring jobs and now coach MX,etc. I have coached 20,000 riders and can pretty much tell by the parents attitude,the kids love of riding and there outlook together how far they will get in the sport. So if there rich and spoilt they dont have much chance. As for when do you stop being a kid. I hope never but at 50yrs old im glad im still maturing in my decisions a little.

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