A "linkageless" bike gets Top 5.

`ol Ger
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`ol Ger
Edited Date/Time 1/26/2012 10:47pm
How is that possible?


oG
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wpcjs
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wpcjs 7/6/2008 2:34pm
7/6/2008 2:34pm
No way!!!! 2 in the top 10 in the lites.
mw21784
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mw21784 7/6/2008 3:00pm
7/6/2008 3:00pm
tommy searle will win with no linkage next year
`ol Ger
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`ol Ger 7/6/2008 3:01pm
7/6/2008 3:01pm
I have a kTM and it corners very well and does big jumps with ease. I guess I don't understand the negative spin...



oG

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mobile
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mobile 7/6/2008 3:10pm
7/6/2008 3:10pm
Why don't they put the button the 250f?
Friday
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Friday 7/6/2008 3:10pm
7/6/2008 3:10pm
`ol Ger wrote:
I have a kTM and it corners very well and does big jumps with ease. I guess I don't understand the negative spin...



oG
How is it on those Stadium whoops you hit in 5th gear Ger?Wink I think that they are just not as supple when hitting the little stuff,the whoops,and stabilizing the rear wheel.It's not difficult to set them up for big hits.Probably just right for fast smooth Euro tracks or rolling sandtracks.It's when they are confronted with our MX tracks and SX tracks here in the states that throw everything at them at speed that they start to falter. Great Vet and off road bike. Props to Nyk for taking advantage of the injured and being upfront.Without GL,Hamy,MA,IT,Ferry crashing,DM,etc. he did what he had to do to get a 4th overall. Hope he continues to battle up there.
KTM boy 137
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KTM boy 137 7/6/2008 3:14pm
7/6/2008 3:14pm
Yah - Alessi getting 2nd on one is proof positive - KTM's suck on US soil.

Whistling
Friday
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Friday 7/6/2008 3:20pm
7/6/2008 3:20pm
KTM boy 137 wrote:
Yah - Alessi getting 2nd on one is proof positive - KTM's suck on US soil.

Whistling
I don't think they suck at all.Great bikes actually.I got to do a dealer ride at Washougal and got to ride every bike.MX/SX and offoad. But MA is on a Zook now and is going much faster this year.I bet he'd tell you that they are very "different" bikes.
KTM boy 137
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KTM boy 137 7/6/2008 3:26pm
7/6/2008 3:26pm
KTM boy 137 wrote:
Yah - Alessi getting 2nd on one is proof positive - KTM's suck on US soil.

Whistling
Friday wrote:
I don't think they suck at all.Great bikes actually.I got to do a dealer ride at Washougal and got to ride every bike.MX/SX and offoad. But...
I don't think they suck at all.Great bikes actually.I got to do a dealer ride at Washougal and got to ride every bike.MX/SX and offoad. But MA is on a Zook now and is going much faster this year.I bet he'd tell you that they are very "different" bikes.
But - he's still in second. The same place he was on the KTM.
If he's so much faster on the zook, that wouldn't be the case.
Friday
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Friday 7/6/2008 3:35pm
7/6/2008 3:35pm
KTM boy 137 wrote:
Yah - Alessi getting 2nd on one is proof positive - KTM's suck on US soil.

Whistling
Friday wrote:
I don't think they suck at all.Great bikes actually.I got to do a dealer ride at Washougal and got to ride every bike.MX/SX and offoad. But...
I don't think they suck at all.Great bikes actually.I got to do a dealer ride at Washougal and got to ride every bike.MX/SX and offoad. But MA is on a Zook now and is going much faster this year.I bet he'd tell you that they are very "different" bikes.
KTM boy 137 wrote:
But - he's still in second. The same place he was on the KTM. If he's so much faster on the zook, that wouldn't be the...
But - he's still in second. The same place he was on the KTM.
If he's so much faster on the zook, that wouldn't be the case.
Have you seen Mike ride?Anyone who has ,will tell you what I just did. 2nd place has differing lap times from year to year.Last year,No JS,NO RC,GL came way back to win it.Apples and oranges.Mike did much better after he got a new shock last year too.2nd last year was great! I'm not debating that. But which second do you think means more to Mike?And do you think he will say he was faster last year or this year?He's consistently spanking third this year.Not so,last year.It's pretty obvious if you ever get the chance to ride with him or even see him ride in person.He's a different animal this year.He's a better rider and athlete and his bike is too.
Scotty
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Scotty 7/6/2008 3:41pm
7/6/2008 3:41pm
Speaking from experience, the KTM's are really weird in the whoops. They dont like them at all. Is Red Bud a relatively smooth track? I've never been there. Or maybe Wey is finally getting it dialed in. Those bikes are so sensitive to sag adjustments also.. Just a tad to much one way or the either has drastic changes on the handling. I love my KTM for racing offroad, but MX I would take linkage any day of the week
KTM boy 137
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KTM boy 137 7/6/2008 3:46pm
7/6/2008 3:46pm
Friday wrote:
I don't think they suck at all.Great bikes actually.I got to do a dealer ride at Washougal and got to ride every bike.MX/SX and offoad. But...
I don't think they suck at all.Great bikes actually.I got to do a dealer ride at Washougal and got to ride every bike.MX/SX and offoad. But MA is on a Zook now and is going much faster this year.I bet he'd tell you that they are very "different" bikes.
KTM boy 137 wrote:
But - he's still in second. The same place he was on the KTM. If he's so much faster on the zook, that wouldn't be the...
But - he's still in second. The same place he was on the KTM.
If he's so much faster on the zook, that wouldn't be the case.
Friday wrote:
Have you seen Mike ride?Anyone who has ,will tell you what I just did. 2nd place has differing lap times from year to year.Last year,No JS,NO...
Have you seen Mike ride?Anyone who has ,will tell you what I just did. 2nd place has differing lap times from year to year.Last year,No JS,NO RC,GL came way back to win it.Apples and oranges.Mike did much better after he got a new shock last year too.2nd last year was great! I'm not debating that. But which second do you think means more to Mike?And do you think he will say he was faster last year or this year?He's consistently spanking third this year.Not so,last year.It's pretty obvious if you ever get the chance to ride with him or even see him ride in person.He's a different animal this year.He's a better rider and athlete and his bike is too.
I'm not saying he's not a different animal, but that could be due to LOTS of things.

The bike? Sure.
Training? Possibly. People around him? Maybe..

There's so many factors, and yet at the end of the day - when the checkers fly - it's still 2nd.

I dunno, I just think there are way too many people out there who talk about KTM's without having ever owned, ridden one (at those speeds, or any speed really), or even been around them for any length of time. They just see something different and listen to what the people have been chanting for years about them. Don't you think if people were saying the same shit for years, KTM would've made some changes? For their bike to get 2nd in the professional classes of MX, don't you think it's gotta have some of the good things going for it?

I dunno - I just see so many people talk shit without REALLY having any idea wtf they're talking about. They just say the same shit year in, and year out, without ever knowing. I'm not saying you're one of them, but just saying in general - most people have no clue wtf they're talking about when they say "it's the no-linkage thing" or other such ribble rabble.

I will admit to being biased though - so - i'll step off the soapbox Wink
jmar
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jmar 7/6/2008 4:12pm
7/6/2008 4:12pm
Scotty wrote:
Speaking from experience, the KTM's are really weird in the whoops. They dont like them at all. Is Red Bud a relatively smooth track? I've never...
Speaking from experience, the KTM's are really weird in the whoops. They dont like them at all. Is Red Bud a relatively smooth track? I've never been there. Or maybe Wey is finally getting it dialed in. Those bikes are so sensitive to sag adjustments also.. Just a tad to much one way or the either has drastic changes on the handling. I love my KTM for racing offroad, but MX I would take linkage any day of the week
Please enlighten us on your experience.
jmar
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jmar 7/6/2008 4:18pm
7/6/2008 4:18pm
`ol Ger wrote:
I have a kTM and it corners very well and does big jumps with ease. I guess I don't understand the negative spin...



oG
Friday wrote:
How is it on those Stadium whoops you hit in 5th gear Ger?;) I think that they are just not as supple when hitting the little...
How is it on those Stadium whoops you hit in 5th gear Ger?Wink I think that they are just not as supple when hitting the little stuff,the whoops,and stabilizing the rear wheel.It's not difficult to set them up for big hits.Probably just right for fast smooth Euro tracks or rolling sandtracks.It's when they are confronted with our MX tracks and SX tracks here in the states that throw everything at them at speed that they start to falter. Great Vet and off road bike. Props to Nyk for taking advantage of the injured and being upfront.Without GL,Hamy,MA,IT,Ferry crashing,DM,etc. he did what he had to do to get a 4th overall. Hope he continues to battle up there.
Friday wrote: How is it on those Stadium whoops you hit in 5th gear Ger?


??????

I think you may be a gear to high there pal.
Ing
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Ing 7/6/2008 4:21pm
7/6/2008 4:21pm
Look, KTM has the capability to build a linkage machine. In fact they do. Their street machines and some on/off road bikes have them. Don't you think that if linkage bikes worked better they would put them on their mx bikes? I do. Really, think about it. If linkage bikes worked better in the riders or engineers eyes they would use it. Period. They firmly believe (I believe) that it is extra weight, complexity and expense that can be avoided with good firm set-up and engineering. Why wouldn't they use it? Has to be a reason.
chrisgg90 7/6/2008 4:21pm
7/6/2008 4:21pm Edited Date/Time 7/6/2008 4:27pm
Friday wrote:
How is it on those Stadium whoops you hit in 5th gear Ger?;) I think that they are just not as supple when hitting the little...
How is it on those Stadium whoops you hit in 5th gear Ger?Wink I think that they are just not as supple when hitting the little stuff,the whoops,and stabilizing the rear wheel.It's not difficult to set them up for big hits.Probably just right for fast smooth Euro tracks or rolling sandtracks.It's when they are confronted with our MX tracks and SX tracks here in the states that throw everything at them at speed that they start to falter. Great Vet and off road bike. Props to Nyk for taking advantage of the injured and being upfront.Without GL,Hamy,MA,IT,Ferry crashing,DM,etc. he did what he had to do to get a 4th overall. Hope he continues to battle up there.
What a load of rubbish fast smooth Euro tracks , obviously never been to a euro track then to know what you are talking about

The 450 cleaned up today in the Gp's and there were 4 of them in the top 5 in the mx2 class.

wpcjs
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wpcjs 7/6/2008 4:27pm
7/6/2008 4:27pm
Scotty wrote:
Speaking from experience, the KTM's are really weird in the whoops. They dont like them at all. Is Red Bud a relatively smooth track? I've never...
Speaking from experience, the KTM's are really weird in the whoops. They dont like them at all. Is Red Bud a relatively smooth track? I've never been there. Or maybe Wey is finally getting it dialed in. Those bikes are so sensitive to sag adjustments also.. Just a tad to much one way or the either has drastic changes on the handling. I love my KTM for racing offroad, but MX I would take linkage any day of the week
Red Bud is not smooth, in fact they said the sand whoop section is getting close to Millvilles. They also have some huge jumps.

And BTW, the bike that spit off MA today has linkage.
chrisgg90 7/6/2008 4:29pm
7/6/2008 4:29pm Edited Date/Time 7/6/2008 4:31pm
KTM boy 137 wrote:
I'm not saying he's not a different animal, but that could be due to LOTS of things. The bike? Sure. Training? Possibly. People around him? Maybe...
I'm not saying he's not a different animal, but that could be due to LOTS of things.

The bike? Sure.
Training? Possibly. People around him? Maybe..

There's so many factors, and yet at the end of the day - when the checkers fly - it's still 2nd.

I dunno, I just think there are way too many people out there who talk about KTM's without having ever owned, ridden one (at those speeds, or any speed really), or even been around them for any length of time. They just see something different and listen to what the people have been chanting for years about them. Don't you think if people were saying the same shit for years, KTM would've made some changes? For their bike to get 2nd in the professional classes of MX, don't you think it's gotta have some of the good things going for it?

I dunno - I just see so many people talk shit without REALLY having any idea wtf they're talking about. They just say the same shit year in, and year out, without ever knowing. I'm not saying you're one of them, but just saying in general - most people have no clue wtf they're talking about when they say "it's the no-linkage thing" or other such ribble rabble.

I will admit to being biased though - so - i'll step off the soapbox Wink
No, stay on your soapbox, because you just hit the nail on the head.

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mx836
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mx836 7/6/2008 4:47pm
7/6/2008 4:47pm
Ing wrote:
Look, KTM has the capability to build a linkage machine. In fact they do. Their street machines and some on/off road bikes have them. Don't you...
Look, KTM has the capability to build a linkage machine. In fact they do. Their street machines and some on/off road bikes have them. Don't you think that if linkage bikes worked better they would put them on their mx bikes? I do. Really, think about it. If linkage bikes worked better in the riders or engineers eyes they would use it. Period. They firmly believe (I believe) that it is extra weight, complexity and expense that can be avoided with good firm set-up and engineering. Why wouldn't they use it? Has to be a reason.
They will be using it on thier 2010 models, because it is better. I am speaking from experience because I have ridden them. I actually know lots of people with them because I work at a KTM dealership. I may not be as fast as Mikey, but I am a local pro and can tell the difference. They are good bikes, but a linkage suspension works better. I'm not bashing KTM, just stating my opinion. I will actually probably end up on one in the next year or two.
Ing
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Ing 7/6/2008 4:56pm
7/6/2008 4:56pm
mx836 wrote:
They will be using it on thier 2010 models, because it is better. I am speaking from experience because I have ridden them. I actually know...
They will be using it on thier 2010 models, because it is better. I am speaking from experience because I have ridden them. I actually know lots of people with them because I work at a KTM dealership. I may not be as fast as Mikey, but I am a local pro and can tell the difference. They are good bikes, but a linkage suspension works better. I'm not bashing KTM, just stating my opinion. I will actually probably end up on one in the next year or two.
I don't doubt they will use them in the future. Probably sell a ton of them just cause some people don't believe a suspension can work without linkage. My opinion- will cost more and work about the same, but they will sell a ton of em. The majority of people would be better off riding more and reading less magazine tests.
`ol Ger
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`ol Ger 7/6/2008 5:21pm
7/6/2008 5:21pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 7:31pm
`ol Ger wrote:
I have a kTM and it corners very well and does big jumps with ease. I guess I don't understand the negative spin...



oG
Friday wrote:
How is it on those Stadium whoops you hit in 5th gear Ger?;) I think that they are just not as supple when hitting the little...
How is it on those Stadium whoops you hit in 5th gear Ger?Wink I think that they are just not as supple when hitting the little stuff,the whoops,and stabilizing the rear wheel.It's not difficult to set them up for big hits.Probably just right for fast smooth Euro tracks or rolling sandtracks.It's when they are confronted with our MX tracks and SX tracks here in the states that throw everything at them at speed that they start to falter. Great Vet and off road bike. Props to Nyk for taking advantage of the injured and being upfront.Without GL,Hamy,MA,IT,Ferry crashing,DM,etc. he did what he had to do to get a 4th overall. Hope he continues to battle up there.
Tried some of those at Lloyd Frey's private track. It seemed to pack a bit, but the bike was fairly new at the time. I wasn't comfortable going that fast on them - felt out of control (only 3rd and 4th btw. Not enough room to go 5th). On our own track I can hammer them full blast (not as sharp on top).

But I must say, I hate whoops. My son (who has Joel Oehlhof's old KTM bike) loves them. Gettin old I guess.


oG
Jarid332
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Jarid332 7/6/2008 5:24pm
7/6/2008 5:24pm
mw21784 wrote:
tommy searle will win with no linkage next year
How's Ben Townley's 2007 Outdoor title doing?
chrisgg90 7/6/2008 5:25pm
7/6/2008 5:25pm
I got the chance to ride the Suzuki 450 on a deal, but changed back as I didn't like it, compared to my KTM. I honestly think the KTM, is the most confidence inspiring bike I have rode and I have rode them all, except Honda, I have only had the odd shot of them.

Granted, I think you need guys that know what they are doing with the suspension and how to set it up, the guy that does mine owned a KTM team and has good settings and my bike is awesome. and today's results on the GP's show they are plenty good enough in the hands of a good pro also
Matt Fisher 7/6/2008 5:33pm
7/6/2008 5:33pm
The only place where the linkless bikes haven't won championships in is the big bike classes.

From 50cc MX bikes to 250F's, they've won championships.
In both the GP's and the US, they've done well, but have fallen very short of the top spot (#800 last year).
They've won championships in EVERY off-road arena.

Imo, the only reason KTM hasn't won a 450 championship is because they've lacked the TOP rider. RC and SE have dominated the US and GP big bike scene for quite some time, and since neither of them rode for KTM at the time, no #1 plate.
chrisgg90 7/6/2008 5:39pm
7/6/2008 5:39pm Edited Date/Time 7/6/2008 5:39pm
mw21784 wrote:
tommy searle will win with no linkage next year
Jarid332 wrote:
How's Ben Townley's 2007 Outdoor title doing?
Whats that got to do with anything?
Jarid332
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Jarid332 7/6/2008 5:40pm
7/6/2008 5:40pm
Why are you stalking me?

I asked him a question. not you.

Thanks

Have a great day.
bigmaico
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bigmaico 7/6/2008 5:42pm
7/6/2008 5:42pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 7:31pm
Ing wrote:
Look, KTM has the capability to build a linkage machine. In fact they do. Their street machines and some on/off road bikes have them. Don't you...
Look, KTM has the capability to build a linkage machine. In fact they do. Their street machines and some on/off road bikes have them. Don't you think that if linkage bikes worked better they would put them on their mx bikes? I do. Really, think about it. If linkage bikes worked better in the riders or engineers eyes they would use it. Period. They firmly believe (I believe) that it is extra weight, complexity and expense that can be avoided with good firm set-up and engineering. Why wouldn't they use it? Has to be a reason.
mx836 wrote:
They will be using it on thier 2010 models, because it is better. I am speaking from experience because I have ridden them. I actually know...
They will be using it on thier 2010 models, because it is better. I am speaking from experience because I have ridden them. I actually know lots of people with them because I work at a KTM dealership. I may not be as fast as Mikey, but I am a local pro and can tell the difference. They are good bikes, but a linkage suspension works better. I'm not bashing KTM, just stating my opinion. I will actually probably end up on one in the next year or two.
NO the linkage systems doesn't better than the non linkage system, it's just that it's much easier to setup a linkage system shock because of all the experience tuners have had with them.

If you have a KTM you need to have someone who really know how to dial the shock to work for you.

I have a 03' 525Sx & I had a " top suspension tuner" work on it & it was worst then stock, then I had a very knowledgeable KTM/WP tuner fix it! the setup is very different & takes a whole different mind set from what the normal tuner's do.
chrisgg90 7/6/2008 5:47pm
7/6/2008 5:47pm
I'm not ,it's just you keep popping up and talking shit everywhere, but I guess that's all you can do.

Sorry, you obviously have issues.
Larry
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Larry 7/6/2008 5:48pm
7/6/2008 5:48pm
This is easy to figure out. KTM's like natural terrain, not man made.

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