AMA 2-stroke Petition Update

ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 3/30/2011 1:59pm
3/30/2011 1:59pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
It would be tougher here. First it would have to be a 150 class. I'm pretty sure Husky and KTM stopped shipping 125s over here and...
It would be tougher here. First it would have to be a 150 class. I'm pretty sure Husky and KTM stopped shipping 125s over here and just ship the 150s. So you have TM and Yamaha with 125s. TM also has a 144 I believe. In Europe you still have 125s from the brands I mentioned plus I think Suzuki still ships the RM 125.
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Well, it probably could be older models. I mean, to get Honda's etc in the race, it would have to atleast accept back to 07. So...
Well, it probably could be older models. I mean, to get Honda's etc in the race, it would have to atleast accept back to 07. So all manufacturers had those, even the big 4.
True, but I'm saying in order to get any kind of OEM involvement you would need current models in the class.
miedosoracing1 3/30/2011 2:02pm
3/30/2011 2:02pm Edited Date/Time 3/30/2011 2:06pm
That's what I didn't understand, but obviously there is a lot I don't. But the 50cc challlenge, besides the bikes, what involvement does there need to be, for a amateur rider event? It isn't pro racing, so it should be up to the riders to have the bikes. Qualifications, Then trophies. Not sure what else??? Yes, I know it is at a pro event, but the riders will be amateur and can't be paid due to age. Thus an amateur event for them.
motogrady
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motogrady 3/30/2011 2:07pm
3/30/2011 2:07pm
motogrady wrote:
I put a post up, maybe a month ago, over at twostrokemotocross.com. Asking who would enter an east coast, 2 stroke only event if I ran...
I put a post up, maybe a month ago, over at twostrokemotocross.com.
Asking who would enter an east coast, 2 stroke only event if I ran one.
Last I checked, maybe 2 guys out of 200 said they'd show.
So, you have to agree with Mr. Coombs. Lots say, yeah, till it's time to put up.

Myself, the answer would be just go back to cc vs cc.
Hopefully, the OEMs would still play.

I mean, there is on 1 AMA.
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Two things. First, how many actual racers visit that website wondering if there is a race? I visit that board regularly and don't remember that post...
Two things. First, how many actual racers visit that website wondering if there is a race? I visit that board regularly and don't remember that post. Second, I'm sure if AMA local races had info on a race, you'd get plenty of riders. For instance, if you told Wardy (from I think district 17) that there is gonna be a 125 2 stroke race for 16-18 yr A or fast riders at Red Bud. That place would be packed. Its all on how you let the riders know. A forum board isn't one of those ways.
http://twostrokemotocross.com/forum/index.php?topic=1971.0


Agreed, not much of a start, it was just a toe in the water. I had a ton of things/plans/promos on the fryer.
It could turn into a great event.
But I'm not gettin burned hopeing on a gate.

Hey, 100 guys commit, at about 50 a head, all I need is 30 days and we have it for the weekend.
ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 3/30/2011 2:08pm
3/30/2011 2:08pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
That's what I didn't understand, but obviously there is a lot I don't. But the 50cc challlenge, besides the bikes, what involvement does there need to...
That's what I didn't understand, but obviously there is a lot I don't. But the 50cc challlenge, besides the bikes, what involvement does there need to be, for a amateur rider event? It isn't pro racing, so it should be up to the riders to have the bikes. Qualifications, Then trophies. Not sure what else??? Yes, I know it is at a pro event, but the riders will be amateur and can't be paid due to age. Thus an amateur event for them.
Yeah I'm not sure. Being able to find a sponsor to back the class , prize money etc. It's not a pro class but still a class running on the day of a national on the national track is going to need some serious financial backing I would think.

The Shop

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click click bang bang 3/30/2011 2:12pm
3/30/2011 2:12pm
DC wrote:
Click Click and Newman, I am trying, but I am not having a lot of luck getting anyone involved in the 125 class race, and when...
Click Click and Newman, I am trying, but I am not having a lot of luck getting anyone involved in the 125 class race, and when I asked each of the West Coast promoters about running a race out there, they did not have a lot of enthusiasm for it either. As it stands, it's been a non-starter, and I don't really know why. None of the brands that make two-strokes that I spoke to, including KTM direct, had any interest in getting involved other than to say they would love to see it happen.

And it would be great to get other, smaller OEMs involved, but since no one seems to have one of their bikes to ride, it's not as easy as saying "come to High Point and race" and then have them actually show up.

Any suggestions here, I would love to know how to make this happen and get enough kids to show up to have a race, because right now it's not getting a lot of traction in the pits or on the phones.

DC
MX Sports
Honestly coming from a schoolboy rider, this is about the best idea for young riders to come up in years. Every regional last year from the mid east, south east and north east had 30+ riders in the schoolboy 1 class. I'm not sure about the other areas of the country but the east coast rounds, Budds Creek, High Point, Red Bud, Spring Creek and Steel City would EASILY fill up the gate. Why do you need OEM support for a class with no purse money? I really think that if you promise 15 -20 min motos that the gate would be full, the racing would be amazing (the fastest schoolboy 1 riders are on the east coast) and the fans, instead of going to grab a beer like when the WMX start (no offense) would be on the fence and probably would be more interested in the 125 class than the 450's! If you really are trying to help the sport, this might be the best thing you could do. Run what you brung, no 144's, 12-16 years old and no A class or pro riders.
burn1986
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burn1986 3/30/2011 2:23pm
3/30/2011 2:23pm
I agree with Mied, there is a real potential here for this, its just a matter of getting the racers notificed. I don't think contacting the manufacturers first is the best way to go about it. Of course there won't be a lot of enthusiasm from the Big 5 manufacturers because they are focused on SX right now.
newmann
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newmann 3/30/2011 2:27pm
3/30/2011 2:27pm
newmann wrote:
I've said it before, I'll put up some holeshot award money.
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Hey Newmann, you gonna be here in Dallas?
Not going.....bummer. However, what's not a bummer is that Jimmy Button should be flying back here tomorrow with a freshly plated and screwed elbow to get back on his bicycle and finish that ride to Daytona! The crew is reassembling as I type this. Hopefully all goes well.

Add in a bathroom remodel in the house along with a few other items and a party for my 16 year old's swim team from school that's taking place Saturday and the Dallas SX never even got put on the maybe list this year.
unknownmxr 3/30/2011 2:31pm
3/30/2011 2:31pm
If the 450s were reduced to 400 or 350, there would have to be an rpm restriction. Either a max bore size or an electronic limiter. As MXA pointed out, the manufacturers would build 15,000 rpm 350s to compensate for displacement downsizing.
jayride
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jayride 3/30/2011 2:32pm
3/30/2011 2:32pm
That would be awesome. I miss the killer bees
miedosoracing1 3/30/2011 2:35pm
3/30/2011 2:35pm
unknownmxr wrote:
If the 450s were reduced to 400 or 350, there would have to be an rpm restriction. Either a max bore size or an electronic limiter...
If the 450s were reduced to 400 or 350, there would have to be an rpm restriction. Either a max bore size or an electronic limiter. As MXA pointed out, the manufacturers would build 15,000 rpm 350s to compensate for displacement downsizing.
With noise reduction, I don't think you would have to worry about that.
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pilotdude 3/30/2011 2:35pm
3/30/2011 2:35pm
Signed with the following comment:

Dear AMA,

Please allow the technology that allowed motocross to be everyman's sport to flourish once again. Thank you.
dlowe102
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dlowe102 3/30/2011 5:03pm
3/30/2011 5:03pm
To say there will be no 125/144 riders at these races....whatever. Really?
SwapperMX
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SwapperMX 3/31/2011 5:13am
3/31/2011 5:13am
Newmann said it perfectly. Build it and they will come. So, so true. Call it a national junior championship, promote it for what it is, a chance to race on a national track with all the major teams, players and a big crowd on the sidelines watching the racing, and you will be turning away riders in droves. The last thing you will need to worry about is not filling a gate. I would fly half way across the globe to see the racing if this 125 class goes ahead. I Have always wanted to go to a national, but I will book my tickets the second that the 125 class anouncement is made. I sure hope that this does happen.
moto111 3/31/2011 6:13am
3/31/2011 6:13am
DC wrote:
Someone rang? I run a magazine, and I now help run a series along with a lot of other folks at MX Sports, Alli Sports and...
Someone rang?

I run a magazine, and I now help run a series along with a lot of other folks at MX Sports, Alli Sports and AMA Pro Racing.

I will be in Dallas this weekend at the other series, the one that is run by Feld, with AMA and FIM rules.

Getting all of the folks on this email to agree to your proposed changes is the key, not just the guy in West Virginia that runs a magazine.

DC
MX Sports
burn1986 wrote:
Ha! I know. Regarding the 125 class, it will take a little more effort than most simply because three of the Big 4 don't make a...
Ha! I know.

Regarding the 125 class, it will take a little more effort than most simply because three of the Big 4 don't make a 125 and KTM doesn't import one to the US as far as I know. Plus the homol rules have prevented other brands from having an impact here. Even so, REM at Glen Helen has a very enthusiastic class along with the 2-stroke world champs, and I'm sure there would be an interest if at least a few races were scheduled. There are groups of enthusiasts and track owners out there, but there needs to be an organizer/ promoter to get it started. We could post a thread on here for track owners and those interested in participating in a series and go from there. The purse money doesn't need to be very big at first. It will have to grow a little, since most of the riders starting out will be enthusiasts and not youngsters. Like I say, this will take a little more effort to get off the ground since it would be the equivalent of a 4-stroke sanctioned series in the early to mid 90s.
Someone rang?...Hahaha...I have visions of the Batman emblem being pointed into the night sky.

Here's an idea.
How about a Motocross Rookie Cup.
Get KTM to throw 20 x 150's in and get applications in like they did in road racing.
burn1986
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burn1986 3/31/2011 6:26am
3/31/2011 6:26am Edited Date/Time 3/31/2011 6:27am
DC wrote:
Click Click and Newman, I am trying, but I am not having a lot of luck getting anyone involved in the 125 class race, and when...
Click Click and Newman, I am trying, but I am not having a lot of luck getting anyone involved in the 125 class race, and when I asked each of the West Coast promoters about running a race out there, they did not have a lot of enthusiasm for it either. As it stands, it's been a non-starter, and I don't really know why. None of the brands that make two-strokes that I spoke to, including KTM direct, had any interest in getting involved other than to say they would love to see it happen.

And it would be great to get other, smaller OEMs involved, but since no one seems to have one of their bikes to ride, it's not as easy as saying "come to High Point and race" and then have them actually show up.

Any suggestions here, I would love to know how to make this happen and get enough kids to show up to have a race, because right now it's not getting a lot of traction in the pits or on the phones.

DC
MX Sports
click click bang bang wrote:
Honestly coming from a schoolboy rider, this is about the best idea for young riders to come up in years. Every regional last year from the...
Honestly coming from a schoolboy rider, this is about the best idea for young riders to come up in years. Every regional last year from the mid east, south east and north east had 30+ riders in the schoolboy 1 class. I'm not sure about the other areas of the country but the east coast rounds, Budds Creek, High Point, Red Bud, Spring Creek and Steel City would EASILY fill up the gate. Why do you need OEM support for a class with no purse money? I really think that if you promise 15 -20 min motos that the gate would be full, the racing would be amazing (the fastest schoolboy 1 riders are on the east coast) and the fans, instead of going to grab a beer like when the WMX start (no offense) would be on the fence and probably would be more interested in the 125 class than the 450's! If you really are trying to help the sport, this might be the best thing you could do. Run what you brung, no 144's, 12-16 years old and no A class or pro riders.
Its obvious that terms like ". . . West Coast promoters..., KTM direct..., None - - had any interest in getting involved..." indicate the wrong direction in starting a 2-stroke 125 series (or even a couple of races). The big promoters and manufacturers aren't at the local tracks everywhere and could care less about 2-strokes, however this is completely different from what a lot of riders want to see. Why does it have to start so big? REM at Glen Helen currently has a successful 125 class that is packed and has exciting racing each week. It seems obvious to me that the way to do this would be to contact them and other track owners who are already running 125 classes and get their insight on how to expand it.
burn1986
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burn1986 3/31/2011 7:06am
3/31/2011 7:06am
". . . KTM has sold all of its two-strokes this year (reportedly 5000 of them), but Mike Sleeter managed to snag one for the race." - MXA

I thought there was no interest in 2-strokes. BTW the petition is up to 4100 signatures.

There's an interest!
goonslurkin316 3/31/2011 8:25am
3/31/2011 8:25am
I'm confused on this process. I see people wanting that just want to hear a 125 2-stroke and then I see a few, like myself, who are wanting the 250 2 stroke to be able to compete in the 250 class. The 125 2-stroke vs. 250f, and the 250 2-stroke vs. 250f are two VERY different things. I just don't see why it's such a big deal. No factory guys are going to be on them (250 2-strokes), and for the most part, there's a very slim chance that whoever is riding them is going to win a pro national. Period. So just let the minority of people who are actually wanting to do it, (myself included) do it. What's the big deal? If anything it will close the gap concering the difference of bike to skill level. What the privateers lack in power, those who choose to ride them will gain back. (At least a little bit). If anything it'd bring a few more fans in, more publicity on smaller riders and companies, and leave those who are displeased happy. It's also really confusing to me why MXsports allows people such as myself to race Loretta's on 250 2-strokes alongside 250f's, yet when riders who have been on them their whole lives step up to the pro ranks, you have to choose to ride a four stroke, or ride your 250 against factory 450's; Which I know isn't a very easy task to accomplish.

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burn1986
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burn1986 3/31/2011 9:28am
3/31/2011 9:28am Edited Date/Time 3/31/2011 9:31am
goonslurkin316 wrote:
I'm confused on this process. I see people wanting that just want to hear a 125 2-stroke and then I see a few, like myself, who...
I'm confused on this process. I see people wanting that just want to hear a 125 2-stroke and then I see a few, like myself, who are wanting the 250 2 stroke to be able to compete in the 250 class. The 125 2-stroke vs. 250f, and the 250 2-stroke vs. 250f are two VERY different things. I just don't see why it's such a big deal. No factory guys are going to be on them (250 2-strokes), and for the most part, there's a very slim chance that whoever is riding them is going to win a pro national. Period. So just let the minority of people who are actually wanting to do it, (myself included) do it. What's the big deal? If anything it will close the gap concering the difference of bike to skill level. What the privateers lack in power, those who choose to ride them will gain back. (At least a little bit). If anything it'd bring a few more fans in, more publicity on smaller riders and companies, and leave those who are displeased happy. It's also really confusing to me why MXsports allows people such as myself to race Loretta's on 250 2-strokes alongside 250f's, yet when riders who have been on them their whole lives step up to the pro ranks, you have to choose to ride a four stroke, or ride your 250 against factory 450's; Which I know isn't a very easy task to accomplish.
Well, this would be the most common sense fix, but a lot of the higher-ups are scared of it. This was proposed in 2005 and the vote lost out. So, we came up with this proposed rule change last year. It is currently under review by the AMA. I agree with you that factory riders won't ever be on 2-strokes, so there is no real threat to the factories. Even so, the promotors for MX and SX are very scared of the the Big 4 and have fought a change on this, while the AMA has remained receptive to it.
miedosoracing1 3/31/2011 9:39am
3/31/2011 9:39am
"KTM has sold all of its two-strokes this year (reportedly 5000 of them),"

Imagine if you will. Profit on 2 strokes are atleast $1,000. Take that times 5,000 units sold and there you go. Guess the big four don't like making that extra money...
ky_savage
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ky_savage 3/31/2011 9:52am
3/31/2011 9:52am
miedosoracing1 wrote:
"KTM has sold all of its two-strokes this year (reportedly 5000 of them)," Imagine if you will. Profit on 2 strokes are atleast $1,000. Take that...
"KTM has sold all of its two-strokes this year (reportedly 5000 of them),"

Imagine if you will. Profit on 2 strokes are atleast $1,000. Take that times 5,000 units sold and there you go. Guess the big four don't like making that extra money...
The big 4 make their money from the parts department now a days. If you know what I mean.
burn1986
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burn1986 3/31/2011 9:59am
3/31/2011 9:59am
Yeah, valves, cams, chains, heads, etc.
goonslurkin316 3/31/2011 11:35am
3/31/2011 11:35am
I understand how the factories want to continue to promote the four-stroke, and I'm not anti four-stroke. I really could care less of what someone races when they're on the starting gate. The 2-stroke for me is cheap and easy for me/family to work on, competitive, and is what I've grew up riding. I really don't know what I will do when/if I attempt to do the professional series. It just shouldn't be that big of a deal to allow when mxsports does it at Loretta's and there are so few people in this situation.
blueripps
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blueripps 3/28/2012 1:32am
3/28/2012 1:32am
Any updates?
Firebird77 3/28/2012 2:22am
3/28/2012 2:22am
Shall the power of the people conquer. Put this on every forum you can think of.
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Trevor91 3/28/2012 5:03am
3/28/2012 5:03am
I am signer 5473!!!!!!!!!! :D
MetalMike1982
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MetalMike1982 3/28/2012 5:04am
3/28/2012 5:04am
dlowe102 wrote:
To say there will be no 125/144 riders at these races....whatever. Really?
yeah thats a load of shit .
njracer46
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njracer46 3/28/2012 7:20am
3/28/2012 7:20am
I usually try to stay out of the 2 vs 4 stroke battles. But I think everyone on here should sign this. More bikes to ride, which means more pros trying to qualify. Idc what your side is, that's a good thing
burn1986
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burn1986 3/28/2012 7:58am
3/28/2012 7:58am
I'm debating what the next step is on this. I have considered contacting McGrath, Carmichael, Pro-Circuit, FMF and forwarding the petition to them to see what direction to go, or if they would be interested in funding some sort of team.

I haven't called all the manufacturers (since they don't want 2-strokes in pro racing), just Honda and Suzuki. Both were closed doors, with Honda hangin up on me.

KTM has made no efforts to get it's 250 2s homologated, and has verbally sided with Honda.

AMA has said no.

What would be a realistic direction? I would like to see a 250 2s team in SX, but I believe only the YZ is approved to race right now in AMA Pro.
2T42
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2T42 3/28/2012 9:10am
3/28/2012 9:10am
The best direction I can think of is for a group of fans like Twostrokemotocross,com and the amazing group here who have contributed to Renner and other pro 2 stroke companies to get together and run a bike and rider for the year in MX. Make a statement within their biased rules and show a fan base.

Even this will not change AMA or the manufacturers rules, but it may pave the way for someone to see how lucraticve it would be to hold an entirely new 2 stroke series bypassing AMA and the big 4. Get Husky, TM, KTM, and other Euro brands to realize this is the time to strike and gain market share and "own" their own series to market through as the big 4 are doing now with stupidcross.

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