The KING says "bring back 2 strokes!"

newmann
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12/16/2011 9:48pm
As a kid I was a MC nut swinger... lately I think the dude is super arrogant. I think he was being a total smart ass...
As a kid I was a MC nut swinger... lately I think the dude is super arrogant. I think he was being a total smart ass about your 2stroke. Laughing at you.
2T42 wrote:
~4:21 What do you consider more fun: 2 or 4 strokes? “I think riding the 2 stroke’s really fun. I think it’s more fun… and my...
~4:21 What do you consider more fun: 2 or 4 strokes? “I think riding the 2 stroke’s really fun. I think it’s more fun… and my reason for that is being that you can ride it a lot harder And prolly one of the other things is when you crash, it’s prolly a little safer. Your not going as fast and the bike just the inertia and all the… I mean the 450 kinda clobbers you and gathers you up when you crash…” 4:47~

It doesn’t sound like he is mocking them, but more like speaking from professional experience when he twice says that 2 strokes are more fun and 4 strokes will CLOBBER you into the ground and hurt you.

Does this not go along with the new trend of getting paralyzed or dead from 1/8th ton gyros that make it too easy for a slow rider to go faster than he should? Maybe bikes shouldn’t be so “easy” to ride fast with average skill.

Open class went away for a reason, but now it's OK for everyone to ride an open class bike when the big 4 can profit from it? Hey you guys... let's all go and buy CR500's. You know they are faster than 450's!!!
Dude, give it up. Steve Cox already said Jeremy is basically a liar and just jerking your chain .

"It's obvious he was being sarcastic, or playing into what he knew would be a popular answer".
SPYGUY
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12/16/2011 9:55pm
Nerd wrote:
Agreed 100%. But we had 5 different winners in the 450 class this past year. Should've been 6 if K-Dub didn't wad himself up at Houston...
Agreed 100%.

But we had 5 different winners in the 450 class this past year. Should've been 6 if K-Dub didn't wad himself up at Houston.

During MC's era, did that ever happen a single time?

Can't check from here, but from 1993 to 2002, did 5 guys win races in the same series ever? What's the highest number of winners in that time period?
Seven different SX winners in 1997.

Six different winners in 1998.
Nerd
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12/16/2011 10:12pm
Nerd wrote:
Agreed 100%. But we had 5 different winners in the 450 class this past year. Should've been 6 if K-Dub didn't wad himself up at Houston...
Agreed 100%.

But we had 5 different winners in the 450 class this past year. Should've been 6 if K-Dub didn't wad himself up at Houston.

During MC's era, did that ever happen a single time?

Can't check from here, but from 1993 to 2002, did 5 guys win races in the same series ever? What's the highest number of winners in that time period?
SPYGUY wrote:
Seven different SX winners in 1997.

Six different winners in 1998.
That's pretty cool!

Smile

Who were they all?
Nerd
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12/16/2011 10:14pm
newmann wrote:
Dude, give it up. Steve Cox already said Jeremy is basically a liar and just jerking your chain . "It's obvious he was being sarcastic, or...
Dude, give it up. Steve Cox already said Jeremy is basically a liar and just jerking your chain .

"It's obvious he was being sarcastic, or playing into what he knew would be a popular answer".
Yeah, okay, I said he was a liar... Don't be a liar yourself.

Did you see the smirk?

The Shop

PeterPuffer
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12/16/2011 10:22pm
Well one four-stroke I have really noticed is the lack-of pipe dragging in deep ruts. I was always denting pipes in on the 250. That being said I would still love to see a 2 stroke class and if nothing else it sounds more exciting which would be more appealing to outsiders.
CR250Rider
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12/16/2011 10:25pm
Nerd wrote:
Racing was better when he won 14 out of 15 races! :) MC is cool, and you guys are funny. It's obvious he was being sarcastic...
Racing was better when he won 14 out of 15 races!

Smile

MC is cool, and you guys are funny.

It's obvious he was being sarcastic, or playing into what he knew would be a popular answer.
He's an ego maniac just like you. The difference he has Cred.
CR250Rider
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12/16/2011 10:26pm
you have cred, just not pro MX/SX championship cred.
AUS_Twisted
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12/16/2011 11:07pm Edited Date/Time 12/16/2011 11:19pm
I still don't think a lot of people get this whole thread, it's not about who can ride 2 / 4 strokes better or how many winners there are in a single seasons. 2 strokes bring a bit more excitement to the riding styles of everyone, having a bike that can take off faster out of turns with easier throttle control is simply not as exciting as it could be for the fans. And yes I think 450's with so much power and torque on some of these super fast SX tracks is more dangerous then the 250's ever were back in the day.

450's is also the reason why lap times have become shorter in SX, faster bike and the track designs have changed to suite them.

Also a question, does anyone actually enjoy the sound of 20 450's going around in a stadium SX at once? I mean really, the sound becomes annoying after awhile I think. I know I don't go to a SX / MX for the sound like I did with 2 strokes, thats far more enjoyable as a fan just alone.
Nerd
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12/16/2011 11:24pm
Nerd wrote:
Racing was better when he won 14 out of 15 races! :) MC is cool, and you guys are funny. It's obvious he was being sarcastic...
Racing was better when he won 14 out of 15 races!

Smile

MC is cool, and you guys are funny.

It's obvious he was being sarcastic, or playing into what he knew would be a popular answer.
CR250Rider wrote:
He's an ego maniac just like you. The difference he has Cred.
MC is not an egomaniac. All champions have powerful egos, but he's about 10x more humble than anyone else would be in his position.

And you know a whole lot less about me than you do about him. You're in no position to judge me.

I do love to debate. It's great mental exercise. But I fail to see how that makes someone an egomaniac.

Seems like an egomaniac may be likely to try and label people he doesn't even know as egomaniacs. Takes quite an ego to come to a conclusion like that with such little real exposure to the people you're labeling.
Nerd
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12/16/2011 11:32pm
I still don't think a lot of people get this whole thread, it's not about who can ride 2 / 4 strokes better or how many...
I still don't think a lot of people get this whole thread, it's not about who can ride 2 / 4 strokes better or how many winners there are in a single seasons. 2 strokes bring a bit more excitement to the riding styles of everyone, having a bike that can take off faster out of turns with easier throttle control is simply not as exciting as it could be for the fans. And yes I think 450's with so much power and torque on some of these super fast SX tracks is more dangerous then the 250's ever were back in the day.

450's is also the reason why lap times have become shorter in SX, faster bike and the track designs have changed to suite them.

Also a question, does anyone actually enjoy the sound of 20 450's going around in a stadium SX at once? I mean really, the sound becomes annoying after awhile I think. I know I don't go to a SX / MX for the sound like I did with 2 strokes, thats far more enjoyable as a fan just alone.
I think all of that is basically true.

In the beginning of the four-stroke era, raving wasn't very good at all. But the racers, tracks, and bikes are evolving, and raving is getting better.

One big problem early on was that it was really difficult to outbrake someone into a turn to pass them like you could on a two-stroke. It's still not good on that regard, but it's a lot better. I think the tracks are more to blame than the bikes now for that, though, because tracks with 90-degree turns lead to people all apexing the turn, so there aren't many passing opportunities. They need a lot more 180s for better racing.

And I also think that, on the "human" level, four-strokes undeniably require less skill and less talent to do jumps and the like. I think growing up racing two-strokes makes me a lot better rider even now than I would be had I only raced four-strokes. I also think a lot of the complaints about local tracks being dangerous are nonsense, because I think the danger is largely in people buying 450s and then thinking they can jump anything on the track. And they can. But they don't have the skills to know what to do when something goes wrong.

But at the top level, I don't think it takes less talent to do what THOSE guys do as opposed to the two-stroke days.

I mean, Reed was a top guy in both eras...
Nerd
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12/16/2011 11:34pm
Pardon the typos in the preceding post. Was typing on my iPhone at the RC races. Smile
waitn4
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12/16/2011 11:59pm
I still don't think a lot of people get this whole thread, it's not about who can ride 2 / 4 strokes better or how many...
I still don't think a lot of people get this whole thread, it's not about who can ride 2 / 4 strokes better or how many winners there are in a single seasons. 2 strokes bring a bit more excitement to the riding styles of everyone, having a bike that can take off faster out of turns with easier throttle control is simply not as exciting as it could be for the fans. And yes I think 450's with so much power and torque on some of these super fast SX tracks is more dangerous then the 250's ever were back in the day.

450's is also the reason why lap times have become shorter in SX, faster bike and the track designs have changed to suite them.

Also a question, does anyone actually enjoy the sound of 20 450's going around in a stadium SX at once? I mean really, the sound becomes annoying after awhile I think. I know I don't go to a SX / MX for the sound like I did with 2 strokes, thats far more enjoyable as a fan just alone.
Nerd wrote:
I think all of that is basically true. In the beginning of the four-stroke era, raving wasn't very good at all. But the racers, tracks, and...
I think all of that is basically true.

In the beginning of the four-stroke era, raving wasn't very good at all. But the racers, tracks, and bikes are evolving, and raving is getting better.

One big problem early on was that it was really difficult to outbrake someone into a turn to pass them like you could on a two-stroke. It's still not good on that regard, but it's a lot better. I think the tracks are more to blame than the bikes now for that, though, because tracks with 90-degree turns lead to people all apexing the turn, so there aren't many passing opportunities. They need a lot more 180s for better racing.

And I also think that, on the "human" level, four-strokes undeniably require less skill and less talent to do jumps and the like. I think growing up racing two-strokes makes me a lot better rider even now than I would be had I only raced four-strokes. I also think a lot of the complaints about local tracks being dangerous are nonsense, because I think the danger is largely in people buying 450s and then thinking they can jump anything on the track. And they can. But they don't have the skills to know what to do when something goes wrong.

But at the top level, I don't think it takes less talent to do what THOSE guys do as opposed to the two-stroke days.

I mean, Reed was a top guy in both eras...
Desire to bring back the 2 stroke is caused by evolution of the sport. When I think of what is happening in SX I think a lot about Moto GP. Someone mentioned formula 1 drivers aides and the damage to the sport and a sport that recently received those upgrades was Moto GP. What happened to Moto GP is that it became much more 1 lined. The refinement of the bikes increased the danger as well which is what we are complaining about in SX as well. MC explained how a 450 wads you up and on a 2 stroke you have an easier escape that has to do with velocity and nothing to do with "gyroscopic effect." Moral of the story: hitting a brick wall at 25 mph will hurt less than hitting a brick wall at 45mph.
Shawn142
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12/17/2011 3:43am
If there was ever an argument I agree with when comparing the new to the old, this is it. I don't care about the sound or the "it takes more talent" bullshit, most guys just putt around on a bike no matter how many strokes it has anyway. But to me what's tipping the scales is the danger. The bikes even stock are almost too fast now. It's definitely reaching that edge where we have produce and sell something that's simply too much. For that reason I wouldn't mind seeing a return of the 2-strokes and less overall horsepower.
chrisbuehler
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12/17/2011 5:52am
I still don't think a lot of people get this whole thread, it's not about who can ride 2 / 4 strokes better or how many...
I still don't think a lot of people get this whole thread, it's not about who can ride 2 / 4 strokes better or how many winners there are in a single seasons. 2 strokes bring a bit more excitement to the riding styles of everyone, having a bike that can take off faster out of turns with easier throttle control is simply not as exciting as it could be for the fans. And yes I think 450's with so much power and torque on some of these super fast SX tracks is more dangerous then the 250's ever were back in the day.

450's is also the reason why lap times have become shorter in SX, faster bike and the track designs have changed to suite them.

Also a question, does anyone actually enjoy the sound of 20 450's going around in a stadium SX at once? I mean really, the sound becomes annoying after awhile I think. I know I don't go to a SX / MX for the sound like I did with 2 strokes, thats far more enjoyable as a fan just alone.
Great point about the sound. Even my local races are SO loud my 4yr old needs earplugs.I think it keeps him from really enjoying the races
Shawn142
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12/17/2011 6:15am
Great point about the sound. Even my local races are SO loud my 4yr old needs earplugs.I think it keeps him from really enjoying the races
Name me another major motorsport that's vacuum cleaner quiet or that people worry about excessive noise. F1, MotoGP, World SBK, Nascar, NHRA, Indy Car, other forms of AMA racing like flat track and hill climb, even down to lawnmower racing. None of these sports worry about sound issues on a professional level. Yes on a local level since MX is so accessible to the common man we need to worry about it. But do I want to go watch a supercross and have it so quiet I can have a normal volume conversation with the guy next to me? Hello no, why am I watching it live then? At home I have a mute button and can turn it down as soft as I want. Whether it's 2-stroke or 4-stroke, noise is part of the pro racing experience.
chrisbuehler
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12/17/2011 6:25am
Shawn142 wrote:
Name me another major motorsport that's vacuum cleaner quiet or that people worry about excessive noise. F1, MotoGP, World SBK, Nascar, NHRA, Indy Car, other forms...
Name me another major motorsport that's vacuum cleaner quiet or that people worry about excessive noise. F1, MotoGP, World SBK, Nascar, NHRA, Indy Car, other forms of AMA racing like flat track and hill climb, even down to lawnmower racing. None of these sports worry about sound issues on a professional level. Yes on a local level since MX is so accessible to the common man we need to worry about it. But do I want to go watch a supercross and have it so quiet I can have a normal volume conversation with the guy next to me? Hello no, why am I watching it live then? At home I have a mute button and can turn it down as soft as I want. Whether it's 2-stroke or 4-stroke, noise is part of the pro racing experience.
Yeah agree on all points. I guess because car racing is the most boring shit in the world to me, I dont care about those sports. I just dont remember it being so loud when I was a kid. Just an observation though and not something that would ever keep me from riding/racing
Faceaz
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12/17/2011 6:39am
Faceaz wrote:
It takes more talent to ride a 2 stroke fast. Keeping the engine in that narrow range of power, using the clutch more, carrying more corner...
It takes more talent to ride a 2 stroke fast. Keeping the engine in that narrow range of power, using the clutch more, carrying more corner speed, the sound, the smell, it all adds up to more exciting racing. I understand the point that as long as there's several people with a chance to win, it's exciting racing. But, IMO when I see a really good 2 stroke rider, it's poetry in motion.
Nerd wrote:
I don't think it takes less talent to ride a 450 at the speed they're riding them at. It's just a slightly different skill set. But...
I don't think it takes less talent to ride a 450 at the speed they're riding them at. It's just a slightly different skill set. But I don't think the front group in the 450 class today is less talented than the front group in any two-stroke era.

Fact is, they go a LOT faster on the 450s...
It takes less talent to ride a 4 stroke fast. Stewart on his 2 stroke was barely able to keep pace with all the 450s. Put all the other riders on 2 strokes & they would fall off the radar.

Fact is, they go a LOT faster on the 450s, because 450's are faster bikes.

This has been true from it's very first Supercross race. Henry was coming back from injury, hadn't raced in a while, but came out and blew the field away in Vegas.

Sure, going faster means faster hand / eye coordination, it also means more injuries & more severe injuries. I believe the injuries are in part because the 4 strokes enable slower riders to easily ride over their head. It takes a very talented rider, to make a 2 stroke get close to the 4 stroke pace.
12/17/2011 8:15am
Four strokes are Sam Hurd's co-conspirator.
CR500Rider
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12/17/2011 9:00am
2T42 wrote:
~4:21 What do you consider more fun: 2 or 4 strokes? “I think riding the 2 stroke’s really fun. I think it’s more fun… and my...
~4:21 What do you consider more fun: 2 or 4 strokes? “I think riding the 2 stroke’s really fun. I think it’s more fun… and my reason for that is being that you can ride it a lot harder And prolly one of the other things is when you crash, it’s prolly a little safer. Your not going as fast and the bike just the inertia and all the… I mean the 450 kinda clobbers you and gathers you up when you crash…” 4:47~

It doesn’t sound like he is mocking them, but more like speaking from professional experience when he twice says that 2 strokes are more fun and 4 strokes will CLOBBER you into the ground and hurt you.

Does this not go along with the new trend of getting paralyzed or dead from 1/8th ton gyros that make it too easy for a slow rider to go faster than he should? Maybe bikes shouldn’t be so “easy” to ride fast with average skill.

Open class went away for a reason, but now it's OK for everyone to ride an open class bike when the big 4 can profit from it? Hey you guys... let's all go and buy CR500's. You know they are faster than 450's!!!
Yes, the open class went away for a reason and it had nothing to do with the bikes being too fast or lack of riders at a national. And yes, stock cr500s are faster than modded 450s.
Sherwood
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12/17/2011 9:00am
Nerd wrote:
Racing was better when he won 14 out of 15 races! :) MC is cool, and you guys are funny. It's obvious he was being sarcastic...
Racing was better when he won 14 out of 15 races!

Smile

MC is cool, and you guys are funny.

It's obvious he was being sarcastic, or playing into what he knew would be a popular answer.
CR250Rider wrote:
He's an ego maniac just like you. The difference he has Cred.
Nerd wrote:
MC is not an egomaniac. All champions have powerful egos, but he's about 10x more humble than anyone else would be in his position. And you...
MC is not an egomaniac. All champions have powerful egos, but he's about 10x more humble than anyone else would be in his position.

And you know a whole lot less about me than you do about him. You're in no position to judge me.

I do love to debate. It's great mental exercise. But I fail to see how that makes someone an egomaniac.

Seems like an egomaniac may be likely to try and label people he doesn't even know as egomaniacs. Takes quite an ego to come to a conclusion like that with such little real exposure to the people you're labeling.
You typically don't debate here... You argue and yes it is diffrent.
12/17/2011 9:46am
McGrath was like Jordan, he will never be replaced!!!!!
CamP
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12/17/2011 10:00am
I don't recall McGrath ever using much sarcasm in his interviews.
OW38B
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12/17/2011 10:31am
Great point about the sound. Even my local races are SO loud my 4yr old needs earplugs.I think it keeps him from really enjoying the races
Shawn142 wrote:
Name me another major motorsport that's vacuum cleaner quiet or that people worry about excessive noise. F1, MotoGP, World SBK, Nascar, NHRA, Indy Car, other forms...
Name me another major motorsport that's vacuum cleaner quiet or that people worry about excessive noise. F1, MotoGP, World SBK, Nascar, NHRA, Indy Car, other forms of AMA racing like flat track and hill climb, even down to lawnmower racing. None of these sports worry about sound issues on a professional level. Yes on a local level since MX is so accessible to the common man we need to worry about it. But do I want to go watch a supercross and have it so quiet I can have a normal volume conversation with the guy next to me? Hello no, why am I watching it live then? At home I have a mute button and can turn it down as soft as I want. Whether it's 2-stroke or 4-stroke, noise is part of the pro racing experience.
So the FIM and AMA are taking away from your Pro Racing experience because they have Sound testing and have just reduced the sound testing levels for this year.

Do you know something they don't?
12/17/2011 10:54am
That was a good piece with jeremy.....i didnt think he held back or was over the top.....just straight shooting.
Nerd
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12/17/2011 11:19am
Sherwood wrote:
You typically don't debate here... You argue and yes it is diffrent.
Why are you arguing with me?
KAWboy14
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12/17/2011 11:50am
the 2 stroke sound and noise......makes you want to ride!
Lightning78
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12/17/2011 11:53am
As a kid I was a MC nut swinger... lately I think the dude is super arrogant. I think he was being a total smart ass...
As a kid I was a MC nut swinger... lately I think the dude is super arrogant. I think he was being a total smart ass about your 2stroke. Laughing at you.
2T42 wrote:
~4:21 What do you consider more fun: 2 or 4 strokes? “I think riding the 2 stroke’s really fun. I think it’s more fun… and my...
~4:21 What do you consider more fun: 2 or 4 strokes? “I think riding the 2 stroke’s really fun. I think it’s more fun… and my reason for that is being that you can ride it a lot harder And prolly one of the other things is when you crash, it’s prolly a little safer. Your not going as fast and the bike just the inertia and all the… I mean the 450 kinda clobbers you and gathers you up when you crash…” 4:47~

It doesn’t sound like he is mocking them, but more like speaking from professional experience when he twice says that 2 strokes are more fun and 4 strokes will CLOBBER you into the ground and hurt you.

Does this not go along with the new trend of getting paralyzed or dead from 1/8th ton gyros that make it too easy for a slow rider to go faster than he should? Maybe bikes shouldn’t be so “easy” to ride fast with average skill.

Open class went away for a reason, but now it's OK for everyone to ride an open class bike when the big 4 can profit from it? Hey you guys... let's all go and buy CR500's. You know they are faster than 450's!!!
The day I realized exactly what MC said about the 450 clobbering you not hearing him say it but from my own experience I got the eff off them! Tried 250f's after that it was more of the same to a lesser degree even the big bores I built .... That was when I knew exactly what was missing .... A 2 stroke. I got one and will never ride moto on a 450 again. Everything quoted above Jeremy said is dead nuts true and in my opinion yes they have cause more severe injuries from the mass and inertia of the bike not the speeds.
-eagle-
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12/17/2011 1:59pm
Not sure if it was dumb luck or someone mixing their 90's hip hop and mx knowledge but:

"93 till infinity" is the name of that beat.
Much like MC's legacy.
Mstock
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12/17/2011 2:15pm
Make the 4 strokes really quiet and pump two stroke sounds through the loudspeakers. Run 1,000 chain saws around the track to provide the smell. Problem solved.

Imagine if F1 sounded like shit? The sport would be gone and they know it. They are very protective of the sound and volume of that sport. MX on the other hand has volume limits and farting pig sounds.
croom mx
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12/17/2011 3:06pm Edited Date/Time 12/17/2011 3:07pm
I like 2 strokes but the reality is that on a slick clay track the 4 stroke gets the power down. In sand 2 stroke still kicks ass. The AMA knows this that's why they wont let them into the Nationals. Someone might win on a 2 stroke. That would cause major problems for the big 4. KTM might like it though!

Post a reply to: The KING says "bring back 2 strokes!"

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