350 in the 250 class?

Cody24
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Cody24
Edited Date/Time 1/24/2012 9:52am
Can anyone show me the AMA rulebook where it states that 250cc is the limit in the 250 class? Had someone tell me that the KTM could be ridden with the 250s today.
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GuyB
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GuyB 12/4/2011 8:58pm
12/4/2011 8:58pm
Someone was wrong.
NeWskoolmxer
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NeWskoolmxer 12/4/2011 8:58pm
12/4/2011 8:58pm
In pro racing 250cc is the max in the lites class, I don't have a rule book on hand but I know that to be true.
chump6784
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chump6784 12/4/2011 9:03pm
12/4/2011 9:03pm
NeWskoolmxer wrote:
In pro racing 250cc is the max in the lites class, I don't have a rule book on hand but I know that to be true.
for a 4 stroke. halve that for a 2 stroke
Cody24
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Cody24 12/4/2011 9:10pm
12/4/2011 9:10pm
Yeah I just wanted to take him the page out of the rulebook. Why else would it be called the 250 class?

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aFACEdismembered 12/4/2011 9:17pm
12/4/2011 9:17pm
Cody24 wrote:
Yeah I just wanted to take him the page out of the rulebook. Why else would it be called the 250 class?
It's called the 250 class because Yamaha decided 250cc for a four stroke was what was needed to beat 125's...

...that's the short of it. Whistling
Cody24
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Cody24 12/4/2011 9:28pm
12/4/2011 9:28pm
Gracias!
mx836
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mx836 12/4/2011 9:37pm
12/4/2011 9:37pm
Cody24 wrote:
Yeah I just wanted to take him the page out of the rulebook. Why else would it be called the 250 class?
aFACEdismembered wrote:
It's called the 250 class because Yamaha decided 250cc for a four stroke was what was needed to beat 125's... ...that's the short of it. :whistle...
It's called the 250 class because Yamaha decided 250cc for a four stroke was what was needed to beat 125's...

...that's the short of it. Whistling
So true.
GuyB
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GuyB 12/4/2011 9:51pm
12/4/2011 9:51pm
Cody24 wrote:
Yeah I just wanted to take him the page out of the rulebook. Why else would it be called the 250 class?
aFACEdismembered wrote:
It's called the 250 class because Yamaha decided 250cc for a four stroke was what was needed to beat 125's... ...that's the short of it. :whistle...
It's called the 250 class because Yamaha decided 250cc for a four stroke was what was needed to beat 125's...

...that's the short of it. Whistling
Yamaha didn't "decide". They went with what was allowed by the AMA rule book.
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GuyB 12/4/2011 9:52pm
12/4/2011 9:52pm
Cody24 wrote:
Gracias!
Has anyone mentioned to you that the sky is green, and that you don't need to worry about that first step? Wink
Cody24
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Cody24 12/4/2011 10:07pm
12/4/2011 10:07pm
Cody24 wrote:
Gracias!
GuyB wrote:
Has anyone mentioned to you that the sky is green, and that you don't need to worry about that first step? Wink
Well of course, but you gotta be right sometimes! Tongue
miedosoracing1 12/5/2011 1:38am
12/5/2011 1:38am Edited Date/Time 12/5/2011 1:54am
Cody24 wrote:
Yeah I just wanted to take him the page out of the rulebook. Why else would it be called the 250 class?
aFACEdismembered wrote:
It's called the 250 class because Yamaha decided 250cc for a four stroke was what was needed to beat 125's... ...that's the short of it. :whistle...
It's called the 250 class because Yamaha decided 250cc for a four stroke was what was needed to beat 125's...

...that's the short of it. Whistling
GuyB wrote:
Yamaha didn't "decide". They went with what was allowed by the AMA rule book.
Sorry Guy, but that would be incorrect, i do believe. As the 450cc rules were actually higher prior from 1993 to 2003, the 250cc 4 stroke rule was 200cc before that, I believe. i don't believe the 125 2 stroke class had upped cc rules for 4 strokes from those previous changes. It was changed to 250cc 4 strokes at the same time as the final big bore cc got decreased to 450cc in 2000 Pro AMA meeting. Then went into effect around 2001 for 250F and 2003 450F.

But regarding this post, are we sure the OP is speaking of pro rules or just the amateur AMA?
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burn1986 12/5/2011 6:09am
12/5/2011 6:09am
GuyB wrote:
Has anyone mentioned to you that the sky is green, and that you don't need to worry about that first step? Wink
I don't get it. Huh
newmann
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newmann 12/5/2011 6:21am
12/5/2011 6:21am
Cody24 wrote:
Can anyone show me the AMA rulebook where it states that 250cc is the limit in the 250 class? Had someone tell me that the KTM...
Can anyone show me the AMA rulebook where it states that 250cc is the limit in the 250 class? Had someone tell me that the KTM could be ridden with the 250s today.
A 350 can be ridden in the 250 class. A 450 can be ridden in the 250 class. But eventually we'll call it the heavy class.....uh, I mean the SX or MX class because people will be going WTF????? Now if you are talking about running a 350 in the 125 class, well then you've got another thing coming....Huh
layinbody31
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layinbody31 12/6/2011 11:54am
12/6/2011 11:54am
Just to clarify...

In the amateurs you can run a 250 2stroke in any 250 class, correct?
Shawn142
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Shawn142 12/6/2011 12:17pm
12/6/2011 12:17pm
layinbody31 wrote:
Just to clarify...

In the amateurs you can run a 250 2stroke in any 250 class, correct?
In the AMA at the amateur level yes. If it's just your local track running their own race then probably not.

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GuyB
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GuyB 12/6/2011 1:33pm
12/6/2011 1:33pm
GuyB wrote:
Has anyone mentioned to you that the sky is green, and that you don't need to worry about that first step? Wink
burn1986 wrote:
I don't get it. Huh
It means some people will believe anything they're told.
miedosoracing1 12/6/2011 2:02pm
12/6/2011 2:02pm Edited Date/Time 12/6/2011 2:05pm
GuyB wrote:
Has anyone mentioned to you that the sky is green, and that you don't need to worry about that first step? Wink
burn1986 wrote:
I don't get it. Huh
GuyB wrote:
It means some people will believe anything they're told.
Yup, and that is why when you guys here tell tall tales about rules that aren't true etc, I have to come in and correct them, because the people here, "will believe anything they're told" by the "insiders."

Yamaha, Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki = ProAMA rule making board.

"GuyB: Yamaha didn't "decide". They went with what was allowed by the AMA rule book."
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GuyB 12/6/2011 3:40pm
12/6/2011 3:40pm
burn1986 wrote:
I don't get it. Huh
GuyB wrote:
It means some people will believe anything they're told.
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Yup, and that is why when you guys here tell tall tales about rules that aren't true etc, I have to come in and correct them...
Yup, and that is why when you guys here tell tall tales about rules that aren't true etc, I have to come in and correct them, because the people here, "will believe anything they're told" by the "insiders."

Yamaha, Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki = ProAMA rule making board.

"GuyB: Yamaha didn't "decide". They went with what was allowed by the AMA rule book."
You liked that? Let's try another one. We'll see how many people buy this.

miedosoracing1 knows all. He has no agenda. His posts are unbiased and 100% truthful.

(Good thing I'm doing this behind my keyboard. I wouldn't have the poker face to tell someone that stuff in person.) Smile
miedosoracing1 12/6/2011 4:12pm
12/6/2011 4:12pm Edited Date/Time 12/6/2011 4:22pm
GuyB wrote:
It means some people will believe anything they're told.
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Yup, and that is why when you guys here tell tall tales about rules that aren't true etc, I have to come in and correct them...
Yup, and that is why when you guys here tell tall tales about rules that aren't true etc, I have to come in and correct them, because the people here, "will believe anything they're told" by the "insiders."

Yamaha, Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki = ProAMA rule making board.

"GuyB: Yamaha didn't "decide". They went with what was allowed by the AMA rule book."
GuyB wrote:
You liked that? Let's try another one. We'll see how many people buy this. miedosoracing1 knows all. He has no agenda. His posts are unbiased and...
You liked that? Let's try another one. We'll see how many people buy this.

miedosoracing1 knows all. He has no agenda. His posts are unbiased and 100% truthful.

(Good thing I'm doing this behind my keyboard. I wouldn't have the poker face to tell someone that stuff in person.) Smile
Everyone knows I have an agenda. It's never been in question, nor my bias. But what I post is facts. Point out 1 lie ever that I've posted... That is where you guys with your agendas go ari. You post BS that isn't even close to being truthful, and you guys are in the know. That's what pisses us off the most. You know and tell the false, knowingly. Like saying the 2 strokes weren't killed off by the OEM's, but the people not buying them. When you know good and well, that the 2 strokes had cancer and were going to be plug pulled. Duh, when there is double the cc's, it's obvious people won't buy them (2 strokes) with screwed up rules. The fact that OEM's went infront of the ProAMA board and said, we can't consistantly beat a 250 2 stroke with anything less than a 450cc 4 stroke. Thus we had the rules, that forced the buyer to buy the 4 stroke. Not the other way around, where people had a choice between 2 comparable bikes and chose the 4 stroke. That's the place where the 4 stroke buyers used their wallets, it was a forced market. The fact that None of the big 4 ever had intentions to R&D 2 competing bikes. Though biased, point out which of any of those I posted aren't facts. Compared to your Yamaha claim of just using rules in place...
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GuyB 12/6/2011 4:33pm
12/6/2011 4:33pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Everyone knows I have an agenda. It's never been in question, nor my bias. But what I post is facts. Point out 1 lie ever that...
Everyone knows I have an agenda. It's never been in question, nor my bias. But what I post is facts. Point out 1 lie ever that I've posted... That is where you guys with your agendas go ari. You post BS that isn't even close to being truthful, and you guys are in the know. That's what pisses us off the most. You know and tell the false, knowingly. Like saying the 2 strokes weren't killed off by the OEM's, but the people not buying them. When you know good and well, that the 2 strokes had cancer and were going to be plug pulled. Duh, when there is double the cc's, it's obvious people won't buy them (2 strokes) with screwed up rules. The fact that OEM's went infront of the ProAMA board and said, we can't consistantly beat a 250 2 stroke with anything less than a 450cc 4 stroke. Thus we had the rules, that forced the buyer to buy the 4 stroke. Not the other way around, where people had a choice between 2 comparable bikes and chose the 4 stroke. That's the place where the 4 stroke buyers used their wallets, it was a forced market. The fact that None of the big 4 ever had intentions to R&D 2 competing bikes. Though biased, point out which of any of those I posted aren't facts. Compared to your Yamaha claim of just using rules in place...
Go ari. Got it.

So the first year that Yamaha was racing four-strokes, it was against full fields of other four-strokes? Or were they also racing against two-stroke Yamahas?

P.S. I can hear your blood pressure going up from here.
ADynes
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ADynes 12/6/2011 7:15pm
12/6/2011 7:15pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Everyone knows I have an agenda. It's never been in question, nor my bias. But what I post is facts. Point out 1 lie ever that...
Everyone knows I have an agenda. It's never been in question, nor my bias. But what I post is facts. Point out 1 lie ever that I've posted... That is where you guys with your agendas go ari. You post BS that isn't even close to being truthful, and you guys are in the know. That's what pisses us off the most. You know and tell the false, knowingly. Like saying the 2 strokes weren't killed off by the OEM's, but the people not buying them. When you know good and well, that the 2 strokes had cancer and were going to be plug pulled. Duh, when there is double the cc's, it's obvious people won't buy them (2 strokes) with screwed up rules. The fact that OEM's went infront of the ProAMA board and said, we can't consistantly beat a 250 2 stroke with anything less than a 450cc 4 stroke. Thus we had the rules, that forced the buyer to buy the 4 stroke. Not the other way around, where people had a choice between 2 comparable bikes and chose the 4 stroke. That's the place where the 4 stroke buyers used their wallets, it was a forced market. The fact that None of the big 4 ever had intentions to R&D 2 competing bikes. Though biased, point out which of any of those I posted aren't facts. Compared to your Yamaha claim of just using rules in place...
Guess what. A 250 two stroke is "bigger" than a 450 four stroke because it has twice the number of power strokes per revolution. 250/2 > 450/4. The precious two stroke actually has the "displacement advantage" here. (I don't think most people realize/understand this)

Personally I think it would be very difficult to try to make a class even with both engine types, and would only cause headaches for a sanctioning body and the manufacturers. Apples to oranges. Give them each their own class if need be.
miedosoracing1 12/7/2011 4:30am
12/7/2011 4:30am Edited Date/Time 12/7/2011 4:41am
GuyB wrote:
Go ari. Got it. So the first year that Yamaha was racing four-strokes, it was against full fields of other four-strokes? Or were they also racing...
Go ari. Got it.

So the first year that Yamaha was racing four-strokes, it was against full fields of other four-strokes? Or were they also racing against two-stroke Yamahas?

P.S. I can hear your blood pressure going up from here.
I believe the first year, Fonseca/smith??? was forced to ride that, or someone, and maybe wasn't it Yamaha of Troy or something? (long time ago) I don't think they had a choice, if I remember right. It was some sort of, race this or we don't need you. The first year, sure, there was all kinds of issues, like restarting that bike etc. Yamaha isn't dumb. They aren't going to just try something for the first time ever and go all in. They had long term plans. Right? You Never answered the question. Do you believe any of the OEM's had long term plans to R&D 2 competing lines of MX'ers? That's the key to the whole thing. So no, my blood pressure is fine. It's you guys who are in the inside who hate it when I tell people how it is. Because you guys can't get away with your BS. All of these OEM's had long term plans. They knew they made the rules they needed to completely distroy the 2 stroke. They didn't expect the granades I believe, and the economy as well. Those two things together have surely hurt their line of thought. We will only see if I'm correct, when Mr. Honda produces the next 2 stroke MX'er. Until then, I guess the OEM's have won. O wait, I forgot KTM is now the world leader in Offroad. LOL>

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