Carmichael v Stewart on a 125...

kong0036
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kong0036 10/11/2011 4:20pm
10/11/2011 4:20pm
mccread wrote:
Tortelli v Roczen v RC v Stewart v Herlings at Southwick on 125s would be unreal !
I would also put KW and Reynard in that battle those 2 hauled ass on a 125 as well
Sunhouse
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Sunhouse 10/11/2011 4:38pm
10/11/2011 4:38pm
mccread wrote:
Tortelli v Roczen v RC v Stewart v Herlings at Southwick on 125s would be unreal !
I don´t understand why you would put Herlings in that group. I´d kick him out and let TP and GL take his place
kakarot
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kakarot 10/11/2011 4:42pm
10/11/2011 4:42pm
RC,he would pressure James into making mistakes.
RaceFace
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RaceFace 10/11/2011 5:01pm
10/11/2011 5:01pm
I don't know how anyone muses about this and claims James would whip his ass. We NEVER saw RC lose an outdoor title. Not once did he line up for a National title and NOT take it home. 125cc or otherwise. Anyone forget how he dropped back down to the 125s with little time on the bike and won once more? With that said, James hauled ass on the 125.

If they were both the same age on 125s it would have been one hell of a battle, and that's really all that can be objectively said about it.

(But in my head over the course of a year, I see James crashing his brains out because someone is pushing him and then complaining that the bike isn't good enough.)

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SMITH201
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SMITH201 10/11/2011 5:16pm
10/11/2011 5:16pm
Yeah, James for sure!

my top 5 125
1. James
2. RC
3. Lammy
4. Bomber
5. Travis
RaceFace
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RaceFace 10/11/2011 5:26pm
10/11/2011 5:26pm
SMITH201 wrote:
Yeah, James for sure!

my top 5 125
1. James
2. RC
3. Lammy
4. Bomber
5. Travis
Why, why, why?

Lammy and Travis?
mcopsey
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mcopsey 10/11/2011 5:46pm
10/11/2011 5:46pm
kakarot wrote:
RC,he would pressure James into making mistakes.
I don't think RC would be close enough to James to pressure him. All respect given to RC.
kong0036
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kong0036 10/11/2011 5:58pm
10/11/2011 5:58pm
I also believe James is in more control on a 125 and you seem to be able to man handle 125 out of mistakes not like a 250 or 450. That's where RC always had the edge on James , James on a 250 or 450 would ride over his head and more often than not hit the dirt. On 125 that's not the problem James can ride that thing flat stick without having the same problems this is where i think James would have the edge over RC on pure speed
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`ol Ger 10/11/2011 6:03pm
10/11/2011 6:03pm
Huckster wrote:
RC beat Stewart because he is/was mentally stronger. He wore him down until James made a mistake. Pure speed, James may have been faster on many...
RC beat Stewart because he is/was mentally stronger. He wore him down until James made a mistake. Pure speed, James may have been faster on many occasions, but RC was a better racer. He did what he had to do to win and I think that it would have been much the same on any bike including the 125.
Agree ^^^
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`ol Ger 10/11/2011 6:16pm
10/11/2011 6:16pm
kakarot wrote:
RC,he would pressure James into making mistakes.
mcopsey wrote:
I don't think RC would be close enough to James to pressure him. All respect given to RC.
I guess you didn't watch Steel City 2001, 125's. RC would not only run with Stewart, he would pass him. Oh yes.
three9zero
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three9zero 10/11/2011 6:39pm
10/11/2011 6:39pm
RaceFace wrote:
I don't know how anyone muses about this and claims James would whip his ass. We NEVER saw RC lose an outdoor title. Not once did...
I don't know how anyone muses about this and claims James would whip his ass. We NEVER saw RC lose an outdoor title. Not once did he line up for a National title and NOT take it home. 125cc or otherwise. Anyone forget how he dropped back down to the 125s with little time on the bike and won once more? With that said, James hauled ass on the 125.

If they were both the same age on 125s it would have been one hell of a battle, and that's really all that can be objectively said about it.

(But in my head over the course of a year, I see James crashing his brains out because someone is pushing him and then complaining that the bike isn't good enough.)
Pastrana was bad ass on a 125. Did he not put in a killer ride on a RM 125 at a des nations once ?
kong0036
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kong0036 10/11/2011 6:55pm
10/11/2011 6:55pm
kakarot wrote:
RC,he would pressure James into making mistakes.
mcopsey wrote:
I don't think RC would be close enough to James to pressure him. All respect given to RC.
`ol Ger wrote:
I guess you didn't watch Steel City 2001, 125's. RC would not only run with Stewart, he would pass him. Oh yes.
I did watch the steel city race that RC dropped back for to help out brown and to break the record and he didn't win that race he won the overll but not the race
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Premixed 10/11/2011 6:56pm
10/11/2011 6:56pm
a healthy robbie reynard would handle them both.
kong0036
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kong0036 10/11/2011 6:59pm
10/11/2011 6:59pm
Premixed wrote:
a healthy robbie reynard would handle them both.
I agree . Man when Robbie was on shit that guy was amazing to watch. Style, technique and speed that cat had it all.
MOTOX64
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MOTOX64 10/11/2011 7:01pm
10/11/2011 7:01pm
RC had plenty of competition on 125's, Lamson, Windham, Reynard and many I am forgetting but with that said Stewart was incredible on a 125. I think either would have had a hard time beating Johnny O'Mara in his prime though, his 86 Des Nations ride was a thing of beauty!!!
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`ol Ger 10/11/2011 7:08pm
10/11/2011 7:08pm
kong0036 wrote:
I did watch the steel city race that RC dropped back for to help out brown and to break the record and he didn't win that...
I did watch the steel city race that RC dropped back for to help out brown and to break the record and he didn't win that race he won the overll but not the race
RC was not trying to help Brown. Andrew Langston had a personal talk with Ricky on Saturday (9-1-01). I spoke with Andrew personally.

As to the race, you say "RC won the overall but not the race." You are being unnecessarily confusing.

Good night all,


G
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hondaburner11 10/11/2011 8:53pm
10/11/2011 8:53pm
Not trying to change the subject but I witnessed the valve destroyer justin barcia on a 125 and it was unlike anything ive ever seen before. he was actually smooth and in control.

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TDeath21
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TDeath21 10/11/2011 10:34pm
10/11/2011 10:34pm
No doubt about it James would take it to RC on some days. No doubt about it RC would take it to James on some days. However, the days that James took it to RC, he would gain 6 points with a sweep. The days that RC took it to James, he would gain at least 20 due to James pushing at a pace he isn't capable of riding under control at and consequently crashing. So the season ending championship goes to RC. You'd be stupid to bet against a guy who NEVER lost an outdoor championship his entire career. 10 for 10. That takes speed AND control. This is all bench racing of course.

RC took the sport to the next level, and then James took it to the next level again. In my opinion RC had a stronger field to race against. RC had something inside him that could push him to another pace anytime he got his ass kicked the week before (which was extremely rare anyway). Not sure what the statistics are, but if someone could pull them out, I would like to know how many times RC lost back to back overalls in MX.
cmess77
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cmess77 10/11/2011 11:07pm
10/11/2011 11:07pm
If this is just a race of RC vs. Stewart, Roczen will clearly win.
kong0036
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kong0036 10/11/2011 11:27pm
10/11/2011 11:27pm
cmess77 wrote:
If this is just a race of RC vs. Stewart, Roczen will clearly win.
sorry my friend but putting Roczen in the same sentence as RC and JS in just plain and simple DUMB.
DC
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DC 10/12/2011 5:38am
10/12/2011 5:38am
RC crashed in that first moto of the Steel City 125 National and came up to third. In the second moto he just flat-out cleared out at a ridiculous speed....

Another epic 125cc day was Jeff Emig's title-clinching ride at the '92 Budds Creek National. He had to beat LaRocco, but Mike hit a big tire on the inside of a corner and bent his shifter. Emig had no idea, so he was just flat-out railing the track. After four laps he had a 32-second lead. It was just amazing.

I agree with what you guys are saying about pure speed and championship speed. I think Stewart had more of the former, RC certainly more of the latter -- he never lost an outdoor title in 10 years, and he had all 10 titles wrapped up before the last round, which is a record that will never ben broken. He closed the deal every single time.

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DC 10/12/2011 5:44am
10/12/2011 5:44am
One guy we don't have enough appreciation for here is the late Gaston Rahier. He was a dominant force on his Suzuki RH125 back in the day, and the guy even smoked between motos! He won more 125cc GPs that anyone, and he was even shorter than RC.... Like, Alex Martin short. But he was amazingly, highly competitive and that works Suzuki was remarkable -- the brand won ten straight world titles with it from '75 to '84.

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robkinuk 10/12/2011 6:07am
10/12/2011 6:07am
DC wrote:
One guy we don't have enough appreciation for here is the late Gaston Rahier. He was a dominant force on his Suzuki RH125 back in the...
One guy we don't have enough appreciation for here is the late Gaston Rahier. He was a dominant force on his Suzuki RH125 back in the day, and the guy even smoked between motos! He won more 125cc GPs that anyone, and he was even shorter than RC.... Like, Alex Martin short. But he was amazingly, highly competitive and that works Suzuki was remarkable -- the brand won ten straight world titles with it from '75 to '84.

DC
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Davey,
x2 on the Gaston Rahier appreciation. Gaston was incredible on a 125cc, had the pleasure to watch him at several GP's inc. Stepaside wales, Hawkstone Park etc. He was always very approachable and friendly.
He was also a dominant Dakar rider after motocross.
Remember once he bust up his wrist so bad in a rallye crash, they stictched his forearm onto his stomach to get a better bloodflow and heal faster.
Gaston came back as fast as ever, but sadly lost his life to cancer a few years ago. Definately one of the Belgian "Royal family" of Motocross stars!
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Huckster 10/12/2011 6:09am
10/12/2011 6:09am
Premixed wrote:
a healthy robbie reynard would handle them both.
kong0036 wrote:
I agree . Man when Robbie was on shit that guy was amazing to watch. Style, technique and speed that cat had it all.
I have posted this before, but that day at 'dilla when he went by RC like he was standing still by the old vendors row turn, it was the fastest I have ever seen anyone go on a 125. It was unbelievable how he railed that turn wide open and just flew by RC. Robbie was on rails that day and was so impressive.
cmess77
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cmess77 10/12/2011 10:32pm
10/12/2011 10:32pm
cmess77 wrote:
If this is just a race of RC vs. Stewart, Roczen will clearly win.
kong0036 wrote:
sorry my friend but putting Roczen in the same sentence as RC and JS in just plain and simple DUMB.
Haven't you heard, he as the Ryan's covered, so I figured that was the logical next step for him.
the_wood109
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the_wood109 10/12/2011 11:05pm
10/12/2011 11:05pm
DC,

I might be a bit too young, or too American to know about a guy like Gaston Rahier. I admit it....

With that said, it would be pretty difficult to bet against Bubba on the 125. Plenty of people would argue against the scrub making that much of a difference, and I agree. The scrub was just a minor influence (besides the fact that every rider since has scrubbed.)

I'm talking about corner speed.

Unadilla is a prime example of what corner speed can get you. Perhaps I'm a bit biased, but Reynard had some insane corner speed....the only problem is that he didn't back it up. James did back it up pretty much every time he threw a leg over that 125.

Hey, RC is the goat and MC is the king, but there should be a title for a kid that rode a 125 like James did.
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loftyair 10/12/2011 11:22pm
10/12/2011 11:22pm
The goat has it. It always LOOKS like james is going faster, but lap time wise over the course of a race, rc has it. Ricky often had his fastest laps at the end of a race, even though he was way out front. Watching James come from behind sure was a thing to witness no doubt.
kong0036
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kong0036 10/12/2011 11:53pm
10/12/2011 11:53pm
DC wrote:
RC crashed in that first moto of the Steel City 125 National and came up to third. In the second moto he just flat-out cleared out...
RC crashed in that first moto of the Steel City 125 National and came up to third. In the second moto he just flat-out cleared out at a ridiculous speed....

Another epic 125cc day was Jeff Emig's title-clinching ride at the '92 Budds Creek National. He had to beat LaRocco, but Mike hit a big tire on the inside of a corner and bent his shifter. Emig had no idea, so he was just flat-out railing the track. After four laps he had a 32-second lead. It was just amazing.

I agree with what you guys are saying about pure speed and championship speed. I think Stewart had more of the former, RC certainly more of the latter -- he never lost an outdoor title in 10 years, and he had all 10 titles wrapped up before the last round, which is a record that will never ben broken. He closed the deal every single time.

DC
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Sorry DC but the difference there is that he only made it back to 3rd and it was against 125's James was dead last and won not 3rd and it was against 4-strokes . I don't think Ricky had that kind of blinding speed to do that
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TDeath21 10/13/2011 12:12am
10/13/2011 12:12am
kong0036 wrote:
Sorry DC but the difference there is that he only made it back to 3rd and it was against 125's James was dead last and won...
Sorry DC but the difference there is that he only made it back to 3rd and it was against 125's James was dead last and won not 3rd and it was against 4-strokes . I don't think Ricky had that kind of blinding speed to do that
You can't sit here and compare their eras. Last to first is absolutely amazing, no matter who your competition is. But remember it was Ivan Tedesco leading that moto. In 03, Tedesco was not that good, especially at MX. Stewart may have had the speed, yes. No way he wins that moto with RC there though. Was Stewart ever pressed for 30+2 on a 125? I know Roncada pressed him for about 20 for one or two motos. RC would be better than him on days, and Stewart would be better than RC on days. To say Stewart could keep up with RC for 24 30+2 motos over a course of an entire summer is a bit absurd. RC was 10 for 10 in MX championships. Right now, Stewart is 3 for 6 (7 if you count 03).

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