Calling Out Matthes

miedosoracing1 9/28/2011 11:29am
9/28/2011 11:29am
mxb2 wrote:
Easy to sell yamaha 2 strokes, they only have one per shop!
You guys do realize, the reason they don't send very many??? Seriously, do you guys understand business at all? By robbing Peter, you have to pay Paul. Sell SX's and you don't sell SXF's.
Yamaharider1474 9/28/2011 11:30am
9/28/2011 11:30am
race wrote:
You guys realize that KTM and Yamaha sell out their two-stroke lines in short order every year. Locally they are already spoken for before they even...
You guys realize that KTM and Yamaha sell out their two-stroke lines in short order every year. Locally they are already spoken for before they even arrive. You have to get on a list early. And then pay full retail.

Have either of you ever tried to find a new two-stroke at a dealer ... let alone a reasonable price on one?
I could care less what he rides i just want to know if he rides at all anymore. The days of lime green pants are over and the way he talks i would belive he rides and dosn't just own star bucks credit
Yamaha92
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Yamaha92 9/28/2011 11:31am
9/28/2011 11:31am
Dam it, I'll never get back the 10 minutes it took to read this.
mxb2
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mxb2 9/28/2011 11:40am
9/28/2011 11:40am
mxb2 wrote:
Easy to sell yamaha 2 strokes, they only have one per shop!
miedosoracing1 wrote:
You guys do realize, the reason they don't send very many??? Seriously, do you guys understand business at all? By robbing Peter, you have to pay...
You guys do realize, the reason they don't send very many??? Seriously, do you guys understand business at all? By robbing Peter, you have to pay Paul. Sell SX's and you don't sell SXF's.
I do understand business and thats why they are not making 2 strokes at honda,kawy and suzuki, because they were not selling. Simple, produce what sells,the factories are in it to make money and sell bikes. Dirt bikes cost money to ride and maintain. Brand loyalty plays a part on sales but if your favorite brand does not make a certain bike you want, you go to a different brand.

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Shawn142
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Shawn142 9/28/2011 11:41am
9/28/2011 11:41am
mxb2 wrote:
Easy to sell yamaha 2 strokes, they only have one per shop!
miedosoracing1 wrote:
You guys do realize, the reason they don't send very many??? Seriously, do you guys understand business at all? By robbing Peter, you have to pay...
You guys do realize, the reason they don't send very many??? Seriously, do you guys understand business at all? By robbing Peter, you have to pay Paul. Sell SX's and you don't sell SXF's.
Think I understand business just fine, I make enough to buy a new bike a few times over. That doesn't change the fact that KTM and Yamaha put out a nats ass percentage of 2-strokes and people get blown away when they all sell out. Even if 2-strokes were still the only bike sold we'd still be talking about the downward sprial the sport is in. We'd still be bitching about new bike prices, I'm sure all you guys would still find something to complain about.
moto282
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moto282 9/28/2011 11:41am
9/28/2011 11:41am
mxb2 wrote:
Easy to sell yamaha 2 strokes, they only have one per shop!
miedosoracing1 wrote:
You guys do realize, the reason they don't send very many??? Seriously, do you guys understand business at all? By robbing Peter, you have to pay...
You guys do realize, the reason they don't send very many??? Seriously, do you guys understand business at all? By robbing Peter, you have to pay Paul. Sell SX's and you don't sell SXF's.
Really? You think that's what's going on? You think Yamaha doesn't invest any money into their 2-strokes because it would hurt their 4 stroke sales?
race
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race 9/28/2011 11:50am
9/28/2011 11:50am
race wrote:
You guys realize that KTM and Yamaha sell out their two-stroke lines in short order every year. Locally they are already spoken for before they even...
You guys realize that KTM and Yamaha sell out their two-stroke lines in short order every year. Locally they are already spoken for before they even arrive. You have to get on a list early. And then pay full retail.

Have either of you ever tried to find a new two-stroke at a dealer ... let alone a reasonable price on one?
Yamaharider1474 wrote:
I could care less what he rides i just want to know if he rides at all anymore. The days of lime green pants are over...
I could care less what he rides i just want to know if he rides at all anymore. The days of lime green pants are over and the way he talks i would belive he rides and dosn't just own star bucks credit
?

Not even sure if that was meant for me or Mathes? Personally, yes I ride ... but I only hit practice once or twice a month now. Getting harder to keep up on both mtb and mx. Do one on Sat and you got dead legs for the other on Sun so I have to alternate my weekends between the two.

And, not to you, but the reason I explained the hassle it is to get a new smoker from a dealer was to show why a lot of people probably buy used. They get shut out from the dealer so there's no other choice.

And for all the market theorists out there .... since Yamaha has been selling out smokers immediately every year for the last 5? years .... why won't they increase their supply to meet demand? I think KTM has been increasing suply but Yamaha is clearly ignoring demand ... or happy to leave it where it is. Market forces only go so far.
miedosoracing1 9/28/2011 11:50am
9/28/2011 11:50am Edited Date/Time 9/28/2011 11:52am
mxb2 wrote:
Easy to sell yamaha 2 strokes, they only have one per shop!
miedosoracing1 wrote:
You guys do realize, the reason they don't send very many??? Seriously, do you guys understand business at all? By robbing Peter, you have to pay...
You guys do realize, the reason they don't send very many??? Seriously, do you guys understand business at all? By robbing Peter, you have to pay Paul. Sell SX's and you don't sell SXF's.
moto282 wrote:
Really? You think that's what's going on? You think Yamaha doesn't invest any money into their 2-strokes because it would hurt their 4 stroke sales?
Directly from someone at Yamaha (not a dealer). Yes. He used a different word, can't remember what exactly was used. But it wasn't only about selling the YZ, it was about pricing the YZ's at a lower price than a YZ250F. He said if they priced it at say $1,000 less than a 250F, then they would lose sales. As per what YZ's they sell right now, he said it is to the 2 stroke only buyer. Someone who wouldn't have bought a 4 stroke anyways. I hate how facts cloud beliefs.
mxb2
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mxb2 9/28/2011 11:53am
9/28/2011 11:53am
race wrote:
You guys realize that KTM and Yamaha sell out their two-stroke lines in short order every year. Locally they are already spoken for before they even...
You guys realize that KTM and Yamaha sell out their two-stroke lines in short order every year. Locally they are already spoken for before they even arrive. You have to get on a list early. And then pay full retail.

Have either of you ever tried to find a new two-stroke at a dealer ... let alone a reasonable price on one?
Yamaharider1474 wrote:
I could care less what he rides i just want to know if he rides at all anymore. The days of lime green pants are over...
I could care less what he rides i just want to know if he rides at all anymore. The days of lime green pants are over and the way he talks i would belive he rides and dosn't just own star bucks credit
race wrote:
? Not even sure if that was meant for me or Mathes? Personally, yes I ride ... but I only hit practice once or twice a...
?

Not even sure if that was meant for me or Mathes? Personally, yes I ride ... but I only hit practice once or twice a month now. Getting harder to keep up on both mtb and mx. Do one on Sat and you got dead legs for the other on Sun so I have to alternate my weekends between the two.

And, not to you, but the reason I explained the hassle it is to get a new smoker from a dealer was to show why a lot of people probably buy used. They get shut out from the dealer so there's no other choice.

And for all the market theorists out there .... since Yamaha has been selling out smokers immediately every year for the last 5? years .... why won't they increase their supply to meet demand? I think KTM has been increasing suply but Yamaha is clearly ignoring demand ... or happy to leave it where it is. Market forces only go so far.
Sometimes you have to drive a bit to get what you want!
Matthes
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Matthes 9/28/2011 12:03pm
9/28/2011 12:03pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Seriously Matthes? I thought we were having a logical conversation. I'm giving you facts. No, the rules in ProAMA got changed to 550cc for guys like...
Seriously Matthes? I thought we were having a logical conversation. I'm giving you facts. No, the rules in ProAMA got changed to 550cc for guys like Coop and Lytle? I think it was. But of course everyone could use them. My point, had the brilliant rules of 1960/70's been kept for ever, we may see 350cc 4 strokes battling it out with 250 2 strokes. 30 years of a great rule, thrown out. But even after that, even after Henry won on a 426, they went to the board and asked for 450cc's. That is not a conspiracy, it's a fact. So you tell me, what was the goal, to have 2 competing motorcycles in both classes? CR against CRF, in both lites and Supercross class? Was that the goal?
So what you are saying is the rules got changed to 550cc at some point but then after Henry won the title on a 426, the OEM's went to the board to try and increase the rule to 450's?

Wait, didn't you just say that the rule was indeed 550cc? Are you saying the rules went from 360cc to 550 then back down to 400 (even though Henry won on a 426) and then the OEM's asked for it to be 450cc?

You're not making any sense in this arguement. I don't know anything about your claims of 360cc, it may be true but what I am saying (and you are sort of saying that as well) is that the rule was 550cc and then was changed to 450cc at some point. That's it.

There's no "going before the board to ask for 450's", you even admit that it was 550! Please explain this logic to me or you can keep on making up conspiracy theories about the OEM's and four-strokes instead of admitting rules and supply/demand doomed your two-strokes.
hellion
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hellion 9/28/2011 12:05pm
9/28/2011 12:05pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Seriously Matthes? I thought we were having a logical conversation. I'm giving you facts. No, the rules in ProAMA got changed to 550cc for guys like...
Seriously Matthes? I thought we were having a logical conversation. I'm giving you facts. No, the rules in ProAMA got changed to 550cc for guys like Coop and Lytle? I think it was. But of course everyone could use them. My point, had the brilliant rules of 1960/70's been kept for ever, we may see 350cc 4 strokes battling it out with 250 2 strokes. 30 years of a great rule, thrown out. But even after that, even after Henry won on a 426, they went to the board and asked for 450cc's. That is not a conspiracy, it's a fact. So you tell me, what was the goal, to have 2 competing motorcycles in both classes? CR against CRF, in both lites and Supercross class? Was that the goal?
Matthes wrote:
So what you are saying is the rules got changed to 550cc at some point but then after Henry won the title on a 426, the...
So what you are saying is the rules got changed to 550cc at some point but then after Henry won the title on a 426, the OEM's went to the board to try and increase the rule to 450's?

Wait, didn't you just say that the rule was indeed 550cc? Are you saying the rules went from 360cc to 550 then back down to 400 (even though Henry won on a 426) and then the OEM's asked for it to be 450cc?

You're not making any sense in this arguement. I don't know anything about your claims of 360cc, it may be true but what I am saying (and you are sort of saying that as well) is that the rule was 550cc and then was changed to 450cc at some point. That's it.

There's no "going before the board to ask for 450's", you even admit that it was 550! Please explain this logic to me or you can keep on making up conspiracy theories about the OEM's and four-strokes instead of admitting rules and supply/demand doomed your two-strokes.
This is irrelevant. We are where we are. It's change this is about, not history.
Matthes
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Matthes 9/28/2011 12:10pm
9/28/2011 12:10pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
That is false. The rule of 550cc was only a couple years. The rules in the books from 1960/70ish all the way to I think 1993/4ish...
That is false. The rule of 550cc was only a couple years. The rules in the books from 1960/70ish all the way to I think 1993/4ish was 360cc 4 stroke in the 250cc 2 stroke class. That was the ProAMA rules. It went to 550cc for guys like Cooper and others on the KTM/Husky type bikes. That stayed until Henry won the championship on the correction: 426.
The 450cc rule was not done in 2006 or 7 like you say. That is way off. Try before Honda made the CRF450.
Fact- Honda started producing the CRF450 in 2001

Fact- Guy Cooper rode the KTM 540 in the 2002 nationals. Here's the PR

So the above paragraph is wrong on many accounts. Proven wrong as a matter of fact. Not theories, thoughts, opinions or anything like that. Dead wrong.

What else are you wrong about?
hellion
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hellion 9/28/2011 12:14pm
9/28/2011 12:14pm
This is why we are where we are, even people who should know better can't see the forest for the trees.
Deetsmx
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Deetsmx 9/28/2011 12:19pm
9/28/2011 12:19pm
Shawn142 wrote:
It was pretty standard issue 15 years ago that any kid worth putting out there at an amateur national would race 125 and 250 B from...
It was pretty standard issue 15 years ago that any kid worth putting out there at an amateur national would race 125 and 250 B from about 15 on depending on how big he was. Very few kids stayed on 80s to the age limit because if you want real support you have to do it on big bikes.

Even now it's the same situation. You don't just move a kid off supermini to a 250F, you buy him a 450 too. All these 16 year old kids coming into the pros from Loretta's haven't just raced small bore stuff, Bogel won the 450A at the Ranch. They've all seen plenty of 250F and 450 seat time long before they sniff the pro starting line.
If you're talking about B and A I agree that they do. I still don't think a 14 or 15 yr old that is still maturing should be on a bigger bike, but that's besides the point. I started racing big bikes in the mid-late 90's and remember the pro's riding both and even some of the top intermediates. I'm mainly talking about the novices or kids just moving up, I think the 125 class is sorely needed for those kids and parents footing the bill. My kid is 2 so I have some time and I really hope 4 strokes are gone or much more reliable in 12 years or I'll be buying him some soccer shoes. I wouldn't use the top kids from Lorettas as an example, they probably either get a lot of support or the parents have deep pockets. Imagine if you had to go and get a new 250f and 450f right now, you'd be out 14k and that's if you got them at dealer cost. How many people can afford that? In the long run I think the oem's really shot themselves in the foot when they started making 4 strokes and they are now starting to see the repercussions of their actions. I don't care what people ride and I'll keep buying my craigslist bikes and hopefully a new ktm smoker soon, but this sport is slowly dying and that hurts all of us, especially those of us selling tear-offs Wink
miedosoracing1 9/28/2011 12:20pm
9/28/2011 12:20pm Edited Date/Time 9/28/2011 12:37pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
That is false. The rule of 550cc was only a couple years. The rules in the books from 1960/70ish all the way to I think 1993/4ish...
That is false. The rule of 550cc was only a couple years. The rules in the books from 1960/70ish all the way to I think 1993/4ish was 360cc 4 stroke in the 250cc 2 stroke class. That was the ProAMA rules. It went to 550cc for guys like Cooper and others on the KTM/Husky type bikes. That stayed until Henry won the championship on the correction: 426.
The 450cc rule was not done in 2006 or 7 like you say. That is way off. Try before Honda made the CRF450.
Matthes wrote:
Fact- Honda started producing the CRF450 in 2001 Fact- Guy Cooper rode the KTM 540 in the 2002 nationals. Here's the [url=http://miedosoracing1 wrote: That is false...
Fact- Honda started producing the CRF450 in 2001

Fact- Guy Cooper rode the KTM 540 in the 2002 nationals. Here's the PR

So the above paragraph is wrong on many accounts. Proven wrong as a matter of fact. Not theories, thoughts, opinions or anything like that. Dead wrong.

What else are you wrong about?
"Read page 18 in MXA March 01 issue for details. The FIM will enforce this rule change in 2003. It looks like the AMA wants to start it in 2002."

What I've plainly stated and you try to wishy wash it, is that the 550cc rule was from 1993ish until the change in 2000-2001. It took affect in 2002, maybe 2003, but was made in 2000-01. So again, you are wrong. The rule was set before the Honda was produced. The board wanted a set cc, and 550cc wasn't the right one. The OEM's went into the board room and said they wanted 450cc, and yes, that is after Doug Henry won on a 426.

So back at ya.... LMFAO
"So the above paragraph is wrong on many accounts. Proven wrong as a matter of fact. Not theories, thoughts, opinions or anything like that. Dead wrong.

What else are you wrong about?"

SteveS
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SteveS 9/28/2011 12:25pm
9/28/2011 12:25pm
SteveS wrote:
Again, it's the reasons that count. Why did we all buy 250F's? They tipped the rules against the 125. Why aren't serious racers buying 125's (except...
Again, it's the reasons that count. Why did we all buy 250F's? They tipped the rules against the 125.

Why aren't serious racers buying 125's (except the handful that run the ultra-competitive Schoolboy class for Loretta's)? One, they hare harder to find than hen's teeth, and two, the rules are still stacked against them.
FreshTopEnd wrote:
Why would a "serious racer" be racing a 125 against a 250f if he can race a 250 two stroke against a 250f? Are you talking...
Why would a "serious racer" be racing a 125 against a 250f if he can race a 250 two stroke against a 250f? Are you talking about the handful of guys who want to race top pro but aren't good enough to get support?
You make my point exactly. The rules are stacked against the 125. The reality is the way the rules turned out, we eliminated the 125 class altogether. Now we have the old 250 class and the Open class. At least MXSports is honest in calling them that.

What I am for is having an actual 125 class again.
Yamaharider1474 9/28/2011 12:27pm
9/28/2011 12:27pm Edited Date/Time 9/28/2011 12:28pm
Matthes wrote:
Fact- Honda started producing the CRF450 in 2001 Fact- Guy Cooper rode the KTM 540 in the 2002 nationals. Here's the [url=http://miedosoracing1 wrote: That is false...
Fact- Honda started producing the CRF450 in 2001

Fact- Guy Cooper rode the KTM 540 in the 2002 nationals. Here's the PR

So the above paragraph is wrong on many accounts. Proven wrong as a matter of fact. Not theories, thoughts, opinions or anything like that. Dead wrong.

What else are you wrong about?
Yup i knew it he doesn't ride just a parts changer............getting back on the bike my help you lose a few of the extra possibly unwanted pounds.
BLAHBLAH
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BLAHBLAH 9/28/2011 12:28pm
9/28/2011 12:28pm Edited Date/Time 9/28/2011 12:32pm
Matthes wrote:
Fact- Honda started producing the CRF450 in 2001 Fact- Guy Cooper rode the KTM 540 in the 2002 nationals. Here's the [url=http://miedosoracing1 wrote: That is false...
Fact- Honda started producing the CRF450 in 2001

Fact- Guy Cooper rode the KTM 540 in the 2002 nationals. Here's the PR

So the above paragraph is wrong on many accounts. Proven wrong as a matter of fact. Not theories, thoughts, opinions or anything like that. Dead wrong.

What else are you wrong about?
Matthes I am begging you to please not waste your time arguing with all these kooks... You clearly stated your opinion, never did you put people down for liking 2s you just stated you don't get it. My suggestion to you is enjoy your off-season, get well rested, because I'm going to need you on top of your game putting out a ton of (and in my opinion the best) moto info....

Keep doing what your doing.......

P.S..... anymore good silly season news?

Pit Row

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leakypipe23 9/28/2011 12:30pm
9/28/2011 12:30pm
I'll never understand this "debate". WHO CARES?!?!
Yamaharider1474 9/28/2011 12:32pm
9/28/2011 12:32pm
Mr. Manitoba my ass.......... let's throw some dirt something to post on Pulp dude!
Matt Wozney
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Matt Wozney 9/28/2011 12:34pm
9/28/2011 12:34pm
If you like riding 4 strokes and can afford it, ride a 4 stroke.

If you like riding 2 strokes and can afford it, ride a 2 stroke.

Simple?
Matthes
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Matthes 9/28/2011 12:37pm
9/28/2011 12:37pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
"Read page 18 in MXA March 01 issue for details. The FIM will enforce this rule change in 2003. It looks like the AMA wants to...
"Read page 18 in MXA March 01 issue for details. The FIM will enforce this rule change in 2003. It looks like the AMA wants to start it in 2002."

What I've plainly stated and you try to wishy wash it, is that the 550cc rule was from 1993ish until the change in 2000-2001. It took affect in 2002, maybe 2003, but was made in 2000-01. So again, you are wrong. The rule was set before the Honda was produced. The board wanted a set cc, and 550cc wasn't the right one. The OEM's went into the board room and said they wanted 450cc, and yes, that is after Doug Henry won on a 426.

So back at ya.... LMFAO
"So the above paragraph is wrong on many accounts. Proven wrong as a matter of fact. Not theories, thoughts, opinions or anything like that. Dead wrong.

What else are you wrong about?"

You say "the rule change took effect in 02"

But Cooper raced a 540 in '02? Was he breaking the rules?

You say the 450 rule was decided in '01. I just showed you that the Honda came out in '01. Do you not think that Honda (and every other OEM) just makes, develops, R&D's a bike in six months? No. They were set on the 450cc limit (based on their market research) long before any rules were made by the AMA or anyone else. The bike was probably being ridden in 99.

But yeah, I'm owned or whatever. Keep bringing up MXA for your evidence, I'll keep my experience of working for two factory teams that were racing thumpers before anyone else and me talking to the AMA guys.

Know what else? I'm done with this. But you can go ahead and announce to everyone that you worked me, you produced all the facts or whatever you want to. This is a never ending deal and people like you can't be convinced of anything. So I'm done trying.
Deetsmx
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Deetsmx 9/28/2011 12:43pm
9/28/2011 12:43pm
Matt Wozney wrote:
If you like riding 4 strokes and can afford it, ride a 4 stroke. If you like riding 2 strokes and can afford it, ride a...
If you like riding 4 strokes and can afford it, ride a 4 stroke.

If you like riding 2 strokes and can afford it, ride a 2 stroke.

Simple?
Yes and no. The problem is that this is turning into a rich mans sport (not that it was ever a poor mans sport). So people who can't afford a 4 stroke will be at a disadvantage from the get go. I thought this sport was about racing, not who can get a leg up before the gate drops. What if all of a sudden an electric bike was a huge advantage but ran about 12k, then the 4 stroke racer crowd who couldn't afford them would be much like the 2 stroke taliban is now. I don't think many guys that ride here would have even gotten into racing if they would have had to buy a used 250f to start off their racing careers. Or their racing would have been short-lived once that thing grenaded. All you have to do is look at the 250 (125) beginner and novice classes to get an idea of what is happening. When I raced weekly they usually had 2 divisions of each, now they are lucky if they can fill half a gate. I know there are other factors, but these huge start up costs to racing isn't helping.
miedosoracing1 9/28/2011 12:46pm
9/28/2011 12:46pm Edited Date/Time 9/28/2011 12:50pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
"Read page 18 in MXA March 01 issue for details. The FIM will enforce this rule change in 2003. It looks like the AMA wants to...
"Read page 18 in MXA March 01 issue for details. The FIM will enforce this rule change in 2003. It looks like the AMA wants to start it in 2002."

What I've plainly stated and you try to wishy wash it, is that the 550cc rule was from 1993ish until the change in 2000-2001. It took affect in 2002, maybe 2003, but was made in 2000-01. So again, you are wrong. The rule was set before the Honda was produced. The board wanted a set cc, and 550cc wasn't the right one. The OEM's went into the board room and said they wanted 450cc, and yes, that is after Doug Henry won on a 426.

So back at ya.... LMFAO
"So the above paragraph is wrong on many accounts. Proven wrong as a matter of fact. Not theories, thoughts, opinions or anything like that. Dead wrong.

What else are you wrong about?"

Matthes wrote:
You say "the rule change took effect in 02" But Cooper raced a 540 in '02? Was he breaking the rules? You say the 450 rule...
You say "the rule change took effect in 02"

But Cooper raced a 540 in '02? Was he breaking the rules?

You say the 450 rule was decided in '01. I just showed you that the Honda came out in '01. Do you not think that Honda (and every other OEM) just makes, develops, R&D's a bike in six months? No. They were set on the 450cc limit (based on their market research) long before any rules were made by the AMA or anyone else. The bike was probably being ridden in 99.

But yeah, I'm owned or whatever. Keep bringing up MXA for your evidence, I'll keep my experience of working for two factory teams that were racing thumpers before anyone else and me talking to the AMA guys.

Know what else? I'm done with this. But you can go ahead and announce to everyone that you worked me, you produced all the facts or whatever you want to. This is a never ending deal and people like you can't be convinced of anything. So I'm done trying.
You stated 06-07 the rule changed. So you are questioning my date? LOL. Seriously, this is comical. your link didn't work, so don't know that he actually raced, or was scheduled to race. I also can't say the rule didn't start until 2003. The MXA article was in March 2001. How many months ahead, does that have to be written, to be in an article? I'd guess somewhere in 2000. I don't have an exact date, but far from your 06-07 year. Trust me, you aren't leaving the conversation because you are showing me I'm wrong. I've shown you are wrong and your butt is hurt. We were having an intelligent conversation, until you tried throw your theories and opinions in on my facts. So how are you different than any of us, when you say we can't be convinced. I just showed you facts, and you still can't be convinced. So back at ya.
The fact is, AMA runs 250 2 strokes vs 250 4 strokes. Try comparing those on your show some day and see what positives you have to say about 250F's in the amatuer ranks.
Shawn142
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Shawn142 9/28/2011 12:47pm
9/28/2011 12:47pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
"Read page 18 in MXA March 01 issue for details. The FIM will enforce this rule change in 2003. It looks like the AMA wants to...
"Read page 18 in MXA March 01 issue for details. The FIM will enforce this rule change in 2003. It looks like the AMA wants to start it in 2002."

What I've plainly stated and you try to wishy wash it, is that the 550cc rule was from 1993ish until the change in 2000-2001. It took affect in 2002, maybe 2003, but was made in 2000-01. So again, you are wrong. The rule was set before the Honda was produced. The board wanted a set cc, and 550cc wasn't the right one. The OEM's went into the board room and said they wanted 450cc, and yes, that is after Doug Henry won on a 426.

So back at ya.... LMFAO
"So the above paragraph is wrong on many accounts. Proven wrong as a matter of fact. Not theories, thoughts, opinions or anything like that. Dead wrong.

What else are you wrong about?"

So you're basing all this argument off an issue of MXA that states what the rule might change to the next year and not a copy of the AMA rulebook from that year? You can probably see the flaw in that argument from the other side.
hellion
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hellion 9/28/2011 12:48pm
9/28/2011 12:48pm
wow, why does this still surprise me? You guys are totally missing the point!
Deetsmx
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Deetsmx 9/28/2011 12:54pm
9/28/2011 12:54pm
This was a good thread until hasselhof and insults showed up. Even though I may not agree with Matthes on this topic I still think it's cool that a guy like him shows up and gives his opinions. He has more insight than most of us when it comes to racing and teams and even if he is biased (not saying he is) how many of us can say that we wouldn't be? We are biased towards 2-strokes because it affects our wallet, some industry people may be biased towards 4-strokes because it affects their wallet. There really isn't a difference other than how it affects our wallet.
miedosoracing1 9/28/2011 12:54pm
9/28/2011 12:54pm
Shawn142 wrote:
So you're basing all this argument off an issue of MXA that states what the rule might change to the next year and not a copy...
So you're basing all this argument off an issue of MXA that states what the rule might change to the next year and not a copy of the AMA rulebook from that year? You can probably see the flaw in that argument from the other side.
It wasn't about hearsay. It was about how the rule had passed. It doesn't matter what else they said, it matters about the FACT that the rule was passed. That is what is in question, and yes MXA or anyone of the magazines of that time can see the same info. It was a fact of passing through the AMA congress.
JLong
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JLong 9/28/2011 1:00pm
9/28/2011 1:00pm
hellion wrote:
wow, why does this still surprise me? You guys are totally missing the point!
Likewise!

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