MXA continues to disprove the 250 vs 250 myth.

chrisbuehler
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9/2/2011 2:10pm
HatersSuck wrote:
Jlaw did a test in transworld and he was 4 seconds faster on the smoker on a small track. Baker who never ran a 250 2...
Jlaw did a test in transworld and he was 4 seconds faster on the smoker on a small track. Baker who never ran a 250 2 stroke in his life also ran a few tenths faster on a smoker. Put 250 2 strokes in a national with lites bikes and have the best talent ride them and people will see where the bear shits in the woods. The 2 stroke would whip the 250f's ass
JLaw was faster on the 2stroke but it wasnt anywhere near 4sec a lap. Maybe a second
ATKpilot99
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9/2/2011 2:25pm


The T stands for Takt which translates to cycle. I don't understand why people make such a big deal over this.
FreshTopEnd
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9/2/2011 2:26pm Edited Date/Time 9/2/2011 2:27pm
Titan1 wrote:
I can't even read this thread...there is to much "2T" and "4T" garbage in it... WTF is a "2t"? 2 toke? Come on...quit being lazy, just...
I can't even read this thread...there is to much "2T" and "4T" garbage in it...

WTF is a "2t"? 2 toke?

Come on...quit being lazy, just right out "stroke"..."2 stroke", not that hard.
I believe it's a manufacturing reference to the classification of bike, not internet shorthand.

People make a big deal about it because for some reason people think making a big deal about little things is a mark of cleverness.
peelout
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9/2/2011 2:29pm
JLaw was faster on the 2stroke but it wasnt anywhere near 4sec a lap. Maybe a second
JLaw raced himself around the world last weekend, he lapped up to 10th place.

The Shop

Titan1
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Lehi, UT, USA
9/2/2011 2:30pm
Titan1 wrote:
I can't even read this thread...there is to much "2T" and "4T" garbage in it... WTF is a "2t"? 2 toke? Come on...quit being lazy, just...
I can't even read this thread...there is to much "2T" and "4T" garbage in it...

WTF is a "2t"? 2 toke?

Come on...quit being lazy, just right out "stroke"..."2 stroke", not that hard.
I believe it's a manufacturing reference to the classification of bike, not internet shorthand. People make a big deal about it because for some reason people...
I believe it's a manufacturing reference to the classification of bike, not internet shorthand.

People make a big deal about it because for some reason people think making a big deal about little things is a mark of cleverness.
I'm not trying to be clever...just sharing my opinion about something that drives me nuts!
9/2/2011 3:07pm
JLaw was faster on the 2stroke but it wasnt anywhere near 4sec a lap. Maybe a second
On a stock YZ250f with a pipe. Not exactly a fair comparison for the Pro's. It needs to be a PC Kawi against a KTM 250SX. Just sayin
peelout
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9/2/2011 3:27pm
On a stock YZ250f with a pipe. Not exactly a fair comparison for the Pro's. It needs to be a PC Kawi against a KTM 250SX...
On a stock YZ250f with a pipe. Not exactly a fair comparison for the Pro's. It needs to be a PC Kawi against a KTM 250SX. Just sayin
ok, but if you're going to go there, then it needs to be a PC Kawi 250f against a full factory KTM 250SX.

apples for apples
9/2/2011 3:57pm Edited Date/Time 9/2/2011 4:07pm
On a stock YZ250f with a pipe. Not exactly a fair comparison for the Pro's. It needs to be a PC Kawi against a KTM 250SX...
On a stock YZ250f with a pipe. Not exactly a fair comparison for the Pro's. It needs to be a PC Kawi against a KTM 250SX. Just sayin
peelout wrote:
ok, but if you're going to go there, then it needs to be a PC Kawi 250f against a full factory KTM 250SX. apples for apples...
ok, but if you're going to go there, then it needs to be a PC Kawi 250f against a full factory KTM 250SX.

apples for apples
Yes, I agree. Problem is, I don't think there is any factory 2 strokes anywhere. And this whole arguement was for the guys who weren't factory riders, so they could afford to race. All factories committed to not racing 2 strokes, so there wasn't suppose to even be any factory 2 strokes, even if the rule was passed..

I've been told by multiple non factory riders that do qualify to main events, that it's the soul reason they can't race as much. They say, they have to have a practice bike and a race bike, because they can't afford the modded motor, when it goes. So it can only be used to race, but not practice. But they state a 250 2 stroke, you can practice and race. Just a repeat of what I've been told.
chrisbuehler
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9/2/2011 4:03pm
JLaw was faster on the 2stroke but it wasnt anywhere near 4sec a lap. Maybe a second
peelout wrote:
JLaw raced himself around the world last weekend, he lapped up to 10th place.
Bro!
englishman
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9/2/2011 4:08pm
Titan1 wrote:
I can't even read this thread...there is to much "2T" and "4T" garbage in it... WTF is a "2t"? 2 toke? Come on...quit being lazy, just...
I can't even read this thread...there is to much "2T" and "4T" garbage in it...

WTF is a "2t"? 2 toke?

Come on...quit being lazy, just right out "stroke"..."2 stroke", not that hard.
I can't even read this post there is too much "WTF" in it.

What the fuck is "WTF" ??

Come on ...quit being lazy , just write out " What the fuck", not that hard Wink LOL
OldYZRider1
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Bushnell, IL, USA
9/2/2011 4:24pm
Shawn142 wrote:
If there was really a serious problem between how evenly matched the 2 bikes were we wouldn't see them racing together at the amateur level, period...
If there was really a serious problem between how evenly matched the 2 bikes were we wouldn't see them racing together at the amateur level, period. The rules would be universal and the 2-stroke would be dead simply because it hard no place to race. This is also what annoys me about this argument. The guys who run the races see what needed to be done and we have 250v250F. But somehow the blame falls on these same promoters because they can't push that agenda into the pro ranks. The 2-stroke taliban cuts of its own nose to spite its face just because they don't want to admit they've been barking up the wrong damn tree for years.
Seems logical enough to me that if a good amateur is making a name for himself riding a two stroke, why shouldn't he be able to start in the begnning pro ranks on a machine that he found success on. He's surely gonna be budget limited and he'll have a familiar bike under him which should be big pluses starting out. Of course this logic really only counts if pro racing is intended to be a fair series for all participants.
Titan1
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9/2/2011 4:43pm
Titan1 wrote:
I can't even read this thread...there is to much "2T" and "4T" garbage in it... WTF is a "2t"? 2 toke? Come on...quit being lazy, just...
I can't even read this thread...there is to much "2T" and "4T" garbage in it...

WTF is a "2t"? 2 toke?

Come on...quit being lazy, just right out "stroke"..."2 stroke", not that hard.
englishman wrote:
I can't even read this post there is too much "WTF" in it. What the fuck is "WTF" ?? Come on ...quit being lazy , just...
I can't even read this post there is too much "WTF" in it.

What the fuck is "WTF" ??

Come on ...quit being lazy , just write out " What the fuck", not that hard Wink LOL
I've got nothing wrong with abbreviations...so long as they make sense. Wink
bd
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9/3/2011 12:50am
Break out Chad Reed's 2005 Factory YZ 250 vs Factory YZ 250F

Apples for Apples
bd
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9/3/2011 1:15am
Would love to see a super shootout: KTM 144 vs. 250F vs. 250 vs 350F vs 450F
HatersSuck
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9/3/2011 5:23am
HatersSuck wrote:
Jlaw did a test in transworld and he was 4 seconds faster on the smoker on a small track. Baker who never ran a 250 2...
Jlaw did a test in transworld and he was 4 seconds faster on the smoker on a small track. Baker who never ran a 250 2 stroke in his life also ran a few tenths faster on a smoker. Put 250 2 strokes in a national with lites bikes and have the best talent ride them and people will see where the bear shits in the woods. The 2 stroke would whip the 250f's ass
JLaw was faster on the 2stroke but it wasnt anywhere near 4sec a lap. Maybe a second
Jlaw, YZ250 fastest lap 1:30.34 YZ 250F 1:34.11. Transworld May 2009.
9/3/2011 5:40am
HatersSuck wrote:
Jlaw, YZ250 fastest lap 1:30.34 YZ 250F 1:34.11. Transworld May 2009.
Repeat, a stock YZ250F with a pipe. No where near a PC built 45+HP 250F.
HatersSuck
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9/3/2011 6:15am
HatersSuck wrote:
Jlaw, YZ250 fastest lap 1:30.34 YZ 250F 1:34.11. Transworld May 2009.
Repeat, a stock YZ250F with a pipe. No where near a PC built 45+HP 250F.
A Stock YZ is 48hp. You thorw a few mods on it and you are 55hp. No matter how you look at it a 250 stroke is a better bike. and riders would go faster on it. There is no doubt about it.
YAKMX
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Allegany, NY, USA
9/3/2011 7:57am
Jlaw did a test in transworld and he was 4 seconds faster on the smoker on a small track. Baker who never ran a 250 2 stroke in his life also ran a few tenths faster on a smoker. Put 250 2 strokes in a national with lites bikes and have the best talent ride them and people will see where the bear shits in the woods. The 2 stroke would whip the 250f's ass



I ride where the bear shits in the woods. They prefer the 2 smoker it covers up the shit smell.BTW they are partial to 927.
chillrich
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9/3/2011 9:35am
I read somewhere that Ossa is developing a CDI that cuts out every 2nd firing of the 2T engine, they believe this will result in a more tractable, useable power. They plan to petition the AMA and FIM to allow them to run twice the displacement of current 4 stroke engines to make up for the horsepower disadvantage.
mmcmx
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9/3/2011 10:42am
Titan1 wrote:
I can't even read this thread...there is to much "2T" and "4T" garbage in it... WTF is a "2t"? 2 toke? Come on...quit being lazy, just...
I can't even read this thread...there is to much "2T" and "4T" garbage in it...

WTF is a "2t"? 2 toke?

Come on...quit being lazy, just right out "stroke"..."2 stroke", not that hard.
englishman wrote:
I can't even read this post there is too much "WTF" in it. What the fuck is "WTF" ?? Come on ...quit being lazy , just...
I can't even read this post there is too much "WTF" in it.

What the fuck is "WTF" ??

Come on ...quit being lazy , just write out " What the fuck", not that hard Wink LOL
Titan1 wrote:
I've got nothing wrong with abbreviations...so long as they make sense. Wink
It makes sense, in dutch, spanish, french, italian, portuguese,...it does.
ryanxmx31
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Sturgeon Bay, WI, USA
9/3/2011 11:13am
newmann wrote:
New issue has a detailed KTM 250F / 250 2 stroke shootout. Regardless of the horsepower , torque and 13 pound weight advantage, the 250 2...
New issue has a detailed KTM 250F / 250 2 stroke shootout. Regardless of the horsepower , torque and 13 pound weight advantage, the 250 2 stroke failed to turn faster lap times. Between a pro, int. and vet rider all turning laps on both bikes the 250F's ease of riding made up for all it's other shortcomings. The KTM250F now comes with linkage, fuel injection and tips the MXA scales (I'm guessing with no fuel in the tank) at a porky the pig 231 lbs.! Holy shit, for a bike the AMA figured to compete in a class with a 194 lb weight limit. Add two gallons of fuel to that little pig and it will be nearly an 1/8th ton like the 450's.
the said they all turned fastest lap times on the 2 stroke than the 4 stroke
chump6784
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AU
9/3/2011 11:41am
haven't read the article but i am guessing it will be the same as the yz vs yzf test they did a couple years ago, the 2 stroke turned the fastest and the slowest lap time, the f turned the most consistent.
just my guess
bullpen58
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9/3/2011 12:01pm
If it was me (and it is), I would rather ride/race a 250F than a 250. BUT, I would never spend my money on a 250F because they have to rev so high to make power that it makes their reliability poor and the cost to maintain them skyrocket.

Therefore, I only ride 450s. They are perfect. Tons of power, Tons of torque, easy to start (newer ones are, anyways), and killer handling. Nobody (except the national pros or a goon in the desert doing 5th pinned down a road) revs the shit out of a 450. Can they break? Sure. Do they cost an arm and a leg to repair when they do? Yes. But are they the funnest bikes to ride? Absolutely.

If I was rich though, I'd love to have a 250F in the garage too. haha. If I was rich, would I personally buy a 125 or 250? NO EFFING WAY!!! I grew up riding those things and do NOT miss them. Don't miss mixing gas. Don't miss their annoying sound. Don't miss their annoying vibration. Don't miss their crappy way of making power only when the rear wheel is spinning like a buzz saw. Don't miss all the gear shifting that is required.

Do I miss anything about 250s? Hmmmmm, I guess the light weight is probably an advantage. I say probably because at my skill level, the added weight of a 450 actually makes a bike more stable and track straighter through rough stuff. So yeah, I don't even miss the weight savings.

About the only thing I miss is the ease of maintenance (on a top end) and the lower cost of rebuilding one (top end)....oh yeah, and the cheaper exhaust systems (what is it, like $200 for a full exhaust on a 250?). Other than that, I'll keep my 450. The thing makes me LOVE riding. Especially with the fuel injection. Smile
CamP
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9/3/2011 12:14pm
Titan1 wrote:
I can't even read this thread...there is to much "2T" and "4T" garbage in it... WTF is a "2t"? 2 toke? Come on...quit being lazy, just...
I can't even read this thread...there is to much "2T" and "4T" garbage in it...

WTF is a "2t"? 2 toke?

Come on...quit being lazy, just right out "stroke"..."2 stroke", not that hard.
englishman wrote:
I can't even read this post there is too much "WTF" in it. What the fuck is "WTF" ?? Come on ...quit being lazy , just...
I can't even read this post there is too much "WTF" in it.

What the fuck is "WTF" ??

Come on ...quit being lazy , just write out " What the fuck", not that hard Wink LOL
Titan1 wrote:
I've got nothing wrong with abbreviations...so long as they make sense. Wink
The "T" stands for "Times".
The Rock
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HAIKU, HI, USA
9/4/2011 9:41am
If I could only race on bike and one bike only it would be a 300cc two stroke KTM or Husky. They're rocket ships, are a blast to ride and the difference in weight is so noticeable when you ride them.

It is also way more fun to be actually twisting the throttle on these two strokes instead of spendnig most of the time lugging a 450 around a track.

This is my story and I'm sticking to it.
ATKpilot99
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Lake Geneva, WI, USA
9/4/2011 10:44am
newmann wrote:
New issue has a detailed KTM 250F / 250 2 stroke shootout. Regardless of the horsepower , torque and 13 pound weight advantage, the 250 2...
New issue has a detailed KTM 250F / 250 2 stroke shootout. Regardless of the horsepower , torque and 13 pound weight advantage, the 250 2 stroke failed to turn faster lap times. Between a pro, int. and vet rider all turning laps on both bikes the 250F's ease of riding made up for all it's other shortcomings. The KTM250F now comes with linkage, fuel injection and tips the MXA scales (I'm guessing with no fuel in the tank) at a porky the pig 231 lbs.! Holy shit, for a bike the AMA figured to compete in a class with a 194 lb weight limit. Add two gallons of fuel to that little pig and it will be nearly an 1/8th ton like the 450's.
ryanxmx31 wrote:
the said they all turned fastest lap times on the 2 stroke than the 4 stroke
They also said they turned their slowest laps on the 2 stroke. They averaged out similar.

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