LL's Qualifiers

SteveS
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8/24/2011 7:14am
kongols wrote:
What do a foreign rider have to do to go to LL? Let`s say it`s a 14 years old kid, riding 85cc. What are the chances...
What do a foreign rider have to do to go to LL? Let`s say it`s a 14 years old kid, riding 85cc. What are the chances for that kid to rent a decent ktm bike in USA, and how much that would cost?
He'd have to race area qualifiers, regionals, just like anyone else.

Don't know that there would be any way to rent an 85, unless you have a friend who'll let you use one of theirs. As much as you'd have to use the bike to even make it to the show, you'd have to buy one to do the season. Most, if not all, kids who make it have more than one bike. In general, area qualifiers start in late February and run through mid may. Regionals start late May and run though mid-June. The big show is late July-early August. If you really wanted to make it, you'd probably come and stay from April through August. If you wanted to do it in less time, you'd probably have to figure a way to come for late April-June for areas and regionals, then come back for Loretta's.
ayearinmx
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8/24/2011 7:22am
I believe Enzo Lopes raced the regionals/areas then went back to Brazil to race some motos there..... then came back for Loretta's, before flying over to Italy for the Junior World Champs

I think Antonio Hernandez also did the same, except with Chile. The 3 month stay is kinda tight to do it otherwise


DC... have you been able to help out the Dunn's with their query regarding eligibility for amateur racing next year?
DC
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8/24/2011 7:29am
David, I passed that on to Tim Cotter of MX Sports, and Kip Bigelow at the AMA. I am sure they will get back to him soon.

DC
MX Sports
yanks_178
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Spirit Lake, IA, USA
8/24/2011 7:35am
If you limit them to their own qualifier you will not have the 42 fastest kids.. Look at Ponca City. You will have 100 kids qualify and they usually have 3 or 4 divisions before getting to the "main". PC has lots of lappers and seeing some of those kids ride they have no business being on the track at the same time as kids like AC and Webb. They are going to get hurt someday!

The Shop

8/24/2011 7:50am
Kingols,

We have helped several kids get set up in the USA for Amateur Nationals and also helped out Ben Watson when he qualified for LLs and got 3rd. Send me an e-mail

mburkeen@nc.rr.com

I would be happy to help you out by helping pick the right qualifiers that involve the least amount of travel and the least amount of time in the states. I can also help get him set up with a bike.
ayearinmx
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8/24/2011 7:51am
Thanks Davey, appreciate it
kongols
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8/24/2011 7:58am
SlowOldGuy wrote:
Kingols, We have helped several kids get set up in the USA for Amateur Nationals and also helped out Ben Watson when he qualified for LLs...
Kingols,

We have helped several kids get set up in the USA for Amateur Nationals and also helped out Ben Watson when he qualified for LLs and got 3rd. Send me an e-mail

mburkeen@nc.rr.com

I would be happy to help you out by helping pick the right qualifiers that involve the least amount of travel and the least amount of time in the states. I can also help get him set up with a bike.
Wait, wait wait. We have to finish this season and see what kind of money we have for next year. But thank you and we`ll know who to talk to if there is any ideas. From what I understand it`s a week of LL itself, but what amount of time would it take to qualify?
8/24/2011 8:16am
It will depend on the schedule of the qualifiers. There are some instances where you can go to an area qualifier and a regional only a couple of weeks later.

What is the riders date of birth? If he is still 14 on Jan 1st next year he hane ride the 85cc 12-14 though it is a small wheel class. Supermini 1 and 2 are big wheels with 112 cc engines and go to 15.
kongols
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8/24/2011 8:38am
SlowOldGuy wrote:
It will depend on the schedule of the qualifiers. There are some instances where you can go to an area qualifier and a regional only a...
It will depend on the schedule of the qualifiers. There are some instances where you can go to an area qualifier and a regional only a couple of weeks later.

What is the riders date of birth? If he is still 14 on Jan 1st next year he hane ride the 85cc 12-14 though it is a small wheel class. Supermini 1 and 2 are big wheels with 112 cc engines and go to 15.
Kid is 13 now and he`ll be 14 on November 25-th.
kongols
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8/24/2011 8:47am
SlowOldGuy wrote:
Kingols, We have helped several kids get set up in the USA for Amateur Nationals and also helped out Ben Watson when he qualified for LLs...
Kingols,

We have helped several kids get set up in the USA for Amateur Nationals and also helped out Ben Watson when he qualified for LLs and got 3rd. Send me an e-mail

mburkeen@nc.rr.com

I would be happy to help you out by helping pick the right qualifiers that involve the least amount of travel and the least amount of time in the states. I can also help get him set up with a bike.
That link takes me to some news channel. Now, if you could be so kind and send me approximately how much would it cost me- entry fees, living, bike, travel ect., and maybe you can tell me the dates of qualifiers and LL itself. Thank you. My email is in my profile.
8/24/2011 9:53am
rocrac wrote:
If your intent is making to the ranch you better be prepared to have a back up region in the event of mechanical failure, crash or...
If your intent is making to the ranch you better be prepared to have a back up region in the event of mechanical failure, crash or some other bad luck. LL is the the largest amateur race in the world not everyone can afford it or not everyone is fast enough to make and that is what makes it special. If you think your rider deserves to be there than you better prepare to spend some money to get there.
This guy has it right. Original poster is just a whiny ***** who isn't fast enough to run with the big boys and think running more than one regional is a cheap shot, when in reality he wouldn't make it in no matter how many regionals he does.
Switch
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8/24/2011 10:12am
I agree with people getting in with crazy alternate finishes. My nephew, riding hurt, went 5-8 for 7th at the Mid-East Youth this year on a PW when they only took top 5. Sent in the alternate form just to see what happend and he got in. Finished with 4-3-9 scores at the Ranch for 5th.

If we thought he actually had a chance at doing some good at the beginning of the year, he would have been signed up for 2 regionals, but we didn't think that far ahead in his first year of racing. I see nothing wrong with being able to ride two, like I said, he was hurt from a practice crash and legally didn't even make it to Loretta's out of his regional.
8/24/2011 4:28pm
Most of the companies and OEMs, that sponsor riders, want them at the big National events. You want the luckiest? Fastest riders in the slowest regions? I want to see the BEST 42 Riders in the country, in each class, on the line. Katie qualified out of the North Central Region twice ('04 & '06). Because of the "MudFest" in Salem, IL, she missed qualifing by ONE place, she had to qualify out of the Mid East, and finished 5th at Loretta's. Should she be left out ? I don't think so.
'
NeverRaced
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8/24/2011 4:37pm
I can remember years ago when Washougal was one of the last races to qualify at and everyone and their brother from PA to CA would show up to try and Nab a spot. Although it wasn't fair i thought for many local kids i did get to spend the day with Jeff Ward when his youngest was trying to qualify on his PW 50 that year.
lfelderman1
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8/24/2011 4:49pm
MX Dad #27 wrote:
Most of the companies and OEMs, that sponsor riders, want them at the big National events. You want the luckiest? Fastest riders in the slowest regions...
Most of the companies and OEMs, that sponsor riders, want them at the big National events. You want the luckiest? Fastest riders in the slowest regions? I want to see the BEST 42 Riders in the country, in each class, on the line. Katie qualified out of the North Central Region twice ('04 & '06). Because of the "MudFest" in Salem, IL, she missed qualifing by ONE place, she had to qualify out of the Mid East, and finished 5th at Loretta's. Should she be left out ? I don't think so.
'
no, im not saying that or anything else, and that is why i usually dont post on these sites. alot of people take things a little. out of content. i was asking a question of other peoples, thaughts on the subject and that is it. i do like to see the fastest riders in the country lined up together and that is the way it should be.
i was just thinking though. what if a super fast kid that would normally qualify no problem and do good at the nationals. say his parents have a bad year money wise and cant afford more than 1 qualifier, he goes to his regional, he is leading and crashes out, or has bike problems. he does not go to LL's , since he is not there do you still have the fastest 42 kids in the nation.
and that is just a question. nothing more
8/24/2011 6:45pm
I have been doing the LLs qualifier thing with my son for the last 10 years. Here is my take:

1. They are looking for the 42 best, not the best from each region.

2. I would be OK with qualifying in your home region if all of the regions were balance in both talent and participation, but they are not.

3. I think the system works for the most part. Most of the top 20 level kids qualify in more than one region because they want a back-up in case of crashes or mechanicals. In MX, unlike some other individual sports, your weekend can end because of a bonehead move by the guy next to you. Most of the top kids don't need the second or third regional to get in.

4. I don't like seeing kids who have already qualified riding the same class in another regional, but in 99% of cases, it turns out not to be an issue.

5. As you get later in the qualifying season, the best kids are already in and it gets easier. The kid who misses it by one spot in the first weekend, usually qualifies in the last regional.

6. You can't buy your way into LLs as many have suggested. You can buy more chances, but you still have to finish up front to get in.

7. If you don't have the money to do multiple regionals, do the last one.

Once you or your son/daughter qualifies, it is the most awesome feeling in the world. Matt has had the good fortune to ride at LLs for the last 10 years and I can say that it is by far, my favorite week of the year. He has had some good years and some not so good years there. We have also had the opportunity to race in Europe 7 times and while they have been awesome trips, nothing, not even the FIM Jr World Championships, compares to a week at the ranch!
8/24/2011 6:46pm
SlowOldGuy wrote:
Kingols, We have helped several kids get set up in the USA for Amateur Nationals and also helped out Ben Watson when he qualified for LLs...
Kingols,

We have helped several kids get set up in the USA for Amateur Nationals and also helped out Ben Watson when he qualified for LLs and got 3rd. Send me an e-mail

mburkeen@nc.rr.com

I would be happy to help you out by helping pick the right qualifiers that involve the least amount of travel and the least amount of time in the states. I can also help get him set up with a bike.
kongols wrote:
That link takes me to some news channel. Now, if you could be so kind and send me approximately how much would it cost me- entry...
That link takes me to some news channel. Now, if you could be so kind and send me approximately how much would it cost me- entry fees, living, bike, travel ect., and maybe you can tell me the dates of qualifiers and LL itself. Thank you. My email is in my profile.
Don't click on it as a link, it is my e-mail address.
lfelderman1
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8/24/2011 8:41pm
SlowOldGuy wrote:
I have been doing the LLs qualifier thing with my son for the last 10 years. Here is my take: 1. They are looking for the...
I have been doing the LLs qualifier thing with my son for the last 10 years. Here is my take:

1. They are looking for the 42 best, not the best from each region.

2. I would be OK with qualifying in your home region if all of the regions were balance in both talent and participation, but they are not.

3. I think the system works for the most part. Most of the top 20 level kids qualify in more than one region because they want a back-up in case of crashes or mechanicals. In MX, unlike some other individual sports, your weekend can end because of a bonehead move by the guy next to you. Most of the top kids don't need the second or third regional to get in.

4. I don't like seeing kids who have already qualified riding the same class in another regional, but in 99% of cases, it turns out not to be an issue.

5. As you get later in the qualifying season, the best kids are already in and it gets easier. The kid who misses it by one spot in the first weekend, usually qualifies in the last regional.

6. You can't buy your way into LLs as many have suggested. You can buy more chances, but you still have to finish up front to get in.

7. If you don't have the money to do multiple regionals, do the last one.

Once you or your son/daughter qualifies, it is the most awesome feeling in the world. Matt has had the good fortune to ride at LLs for the last 10 years and I can say that it is by far, my favorite week of the year. He has had some good years and some not so good years there. We have also had the opportunity to race in Europe 7 times and while they have been awesome trips, nothing, not even the FIM Jr World Championships, compares to a week at the ranch!
Thanks, SlowOldGuy
you just gave the type of input i have been waiting to hear. simple, to the point, no rude comments, and it is your opinion,
i wish more people could give input like you, to a simple question, and not get all uptight about it.
8/24/2011 9:39pm
Some qualify in other regions so they don't get caught cheating. Some will run plus classes in A but when it's time to qualify they head to a different part of the country where nobody knows who they are and run B/C. If you had to qualify in your own region it might cut down on some of those type things but it won't put the fastest 42 riders at LL. Of course some of the fastest 42 aren't in or can't make up their mind on which class they belong.
wardy
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8/24/2011 10:28pm
I have heard from riders who participate in this process. (We don't do this stuff we race local.)

They don't like going to a regional that they already have qualified for going to an Area, only to have to Re-Qualify at the Regional they are supposed to be qualified for in the first place.

The exact comment made to me by this parent who lives for the qualifiers and LL stuff, "charge me more money, so when we go to a regional we race more then 4 stinkin laps" (un quote). I guess at these regionals there are so many motos that they have to run shorter races to get done. Seems goofy to me but then the one and only time i did this stuff was in the 80's.

adding more classes and or "non championship" classes to the program and then cutting laps has some of them talking.

just another opinion there are more but not for a post board.

there are alot of misconceptions in this thread...............some are pretty interesting.
Fleece192
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8/25/2011 5:41am
DC wrote:
What do I think about it? I think the program works pretty good as it is right now -- the same way it's worked for 30...
What do I think about it? I think the program works pretty good as it is right now -- the same way it's worked for 30 years. And having all of the regionals on the same day would be tough on people like Team Green who sponsor riders all over the country. The object is to get the 42 fastest riders per class in the finals, and it seems to be working well in that regard. Sometimes there are hiccups and snafus, but I think that's the case with every big event program.

DC
MX Sports
You know Davy I thank you for your response. It just sucks that people with more money have a advantage,btw whats a snafus
8/25/2011 5:50am
Bandito121 wrote:
Some qualify in other regions so they don't get caught cheating. Some will run plus classes in A but when it's time to qualify they head...
Some qualify in other regions so they don't get caught cheating. Some will run plus classes in A but when it's time to qualify they head to a different part of the country where nobody knows who they are and run B/C. If you had to qualify in your own region it might cut down on some of those type things but it won't put the fastest 42 riders at LL. Of course some of the fastest 42 aren't in or can't make up their mind on which class they belong.
It would be pretty hard for this to happen today. There is a central database of all AMA results, no matter where in the country you race. Also, MX Sports has the results posted the next day for the qualifiers. It is pretty hard to get away with that kind of stuff these days.
DC
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8/25/2011 6:20am
The idea that anyone can jump regionals and switch classes is just not something that happens anymore. The AMA has a nationwide database, the internet helps our own searches, and we get a lot of tips and information on who might be in the wrong classes from folks like the people on this thread. Four riders were taken out of the Vet B/C class based on a thread that started here in July. We do all we can to police the sand-bagging, but there's nothing I can do about a B-class teenager who is lightning fast but is considered an intermediate because he just got off minicycles. It's the transition from little bikes to big bikes, and you can't force a kid right into the expert class without some serious liability exposure.

I'm sorry that some people can afford to do more regionals than others, and that not everyone is happy with the program, but there's always room for improvement, and we continue to tweak the process as the sport evolves.

And I promise that the Beginner "D" minicycle classes are gone forever. It was my idea, it did not work, and now we will try something else, like the open-age 125cc B/C class.
DC
MX Sports
newmann
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8/25/2011 6:28am
DC wrote:
The idea that anyone can jump regionals and switch classes is just not something that happens anymore. The AMA has a nationwide database, the internet helps...
The idea that anyone can jump regionals and switch classes is just not something that happens anymore. The AMA has a nationwide database, the internet helps our own searches, and we get a lot of tips and information on who might be in the wrong classes from folks like the people on this thread. Four riders were taken out of the Vet B/C class based on a thread that started here in July. We do all we can to police the sand-bagging, but there's nothing I can do about a B-class teenager who is lightning fast but is considered an intermediate because he just got off minicycles. It's the transition from little bikes to big bikes, and you can't force a kid right into the expert class without some serious liability exposure.

I'm sorry that some people can afford to do more regionals than others, and that not everyone is happy with the program, but there's always room for improvement, and we continue to tweak the process as the sport evolves.

And I promise that the Beginner "D" minicycle classes are gone forever. It was my idea, it did not work, and now we will try something else, like the open-age 125cc B/C class.
DC
MX Sports
like the open-age 125cc B/C class

That has a nice ring to it.
DC
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8/25/2011 6:32am
That was just for you, Newmann!

DC
MX Sports
NetMXer
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8/25/2011 6:50am
How about a class where riders age plus bike age must = 50. If a rider is 50, he can ride a new bike. If a rider is 20, he has to ride a 30 year old bike.
8/25/2011 7:43am
DC wrote:
The idea that anyone can jump regionals and switch classes is just not something that happens anymore. The AMA has a nationwide database, the internet helps...
The idea that anyone can jump regionals and switch classes is just not something that happens anymore. The AMA has a nationwide database, the internet helps our own searches, and we get a lot of tips and information on who might be in the wrong classes from folks like the people on this thread. Four riders were taken out of the Vet B/C class based on a thread that started here in July. We do all we can to police the sand-bagging, but there's nothing I can do about a B-class teenager who is lightning fast but is considered an intermediate because he just got off minicycles. It's the transition from little bikes to big bikes, and you can't force a kid right into the expert class without some serious liability exposure.

I'm sorry that some people can afford to do more regionals than others, and that not everyone is happy with the program, but there's always room for improvement, and we continue to tweak the process as the sport evolves.

And I promise that the Beginner "D" minicycle classes are gone forever. It was my idea, it did not work, and now we will try something else, like the open-age 125cc B/C class.
DC
MX Sports
It didn't take me 5 minutes to find people that ran A in the plus classes locally and then B/C for LL this year. I don't know these people or even race where they are from but a quick google search found them. Example: Guy from Minnesota runs A all the time, heads to Florida and qualifys in B/C. Pretty easy to figure out who this is and he's not the only one. I was wondering, when it's that easy for me to catch them how does the AMA not do it.
DC
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8/25/2011 7:47am
Bandito, can you please email the person's name?

DC@MX Sports
wardy
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8/25/2011 7:48am
the national advancement system gets slammed from time to time but for one thing it works excellent for "knowing" what riders are pulling stuff. It tracks that stuff, if a rider signs up in Iowa and races B class, and then shows up at a race in Indiana and rides A, he is auto moved to A class. THE ONLY way he gets to go back to B is through committee and a process nationally. Many riders think they can duck the system but DC is correct, post boards out these guys in a nano second.

125 class locally rocks. Nothing sounds better then a starting line of 40 125/s revved out ready to go and then the gate drop, smell etc.etc.etc. Of course a good ride wringing the snot out of that bike only using the brakes to make it turn.......

Watching Jimmy Veugler do this at Byron week in and week out was astounding..
Arkmx
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8/25/2011 8:01am
DC,
Just some ideas here...

How about an "Open 2-Stroke Class" 125cc - 500cc. You have the 125cc Schoolboy classes now for the 125cc bikes.

Maybe a Dinosaur Class for bikes from the 80's & 90's.

How does it look for a 42 rider gate in the +45 and +50 classes?? There are plenty of guys that would like to ride both, or at least try to qualify for both. Come on DC there are enough riders to make it happen!

Thanks!

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