Explain me Loretta Lynns Please!

HatersSuck
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Orlando, FL, USA
7/21/2011 10:10am Edited Date/Time 7/21/2011 10:23am
DC wrote:
MX2B, which local "A" rider is riding the C class at Loretta Lynn's? Please send me any info you have and I will look into it...
MX2B, which local "A" rider is riding the C class at Loretta Lynn's? Please send me any info you have and I will look into it immediately: DC@mxsports.com

I think we do a good job of getting the sand-baggers out of the C classes, but we can always use help policing it.

DC
MX Sports
Pull your past lap times up from the C class. Its sandbagger central. DC. Why challenge what you all ready know is true. The top C riders would finish around 14th in the A class by looking at last yrs lap times.

Saying there is not sand bagging is like saying AC is not a paid Pro on a 85. Same thing goes for all the top prospects racing at LL's.

I
7/21/2011 10:35am
DC, I just came up with a class. 1 lap wonder +40 class. I think there are a lot of us out there that "may" be able to make a lap that's about it, not completely confident in a full lap though, at LL for me. That track looks brutal.
TomZ
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7/21/2011 3:16pm
DC wrote:
MX2B, which local "A" rider is riding the C class at Loretta Lynn's? Please send me any info you have and I will look into it...
MX2B, which local "A" rider is riding the C class at Loretta Lynn's? Please send me any info you have and I will look into it immediately: DC@mxsports.com

I think we do a good job of getting the sand-baggers out of the C classes, but we can always use help policing it.

DC
MX Sports
mxb2 wrote:
I agree mx sports is doing a good job, guess it was bad humor, but seems like a loretta lynns A rider is way faster than...
I agree mx sports is doing a good job, guess it was bad humor, but seems like a loretta lynns A rider is way faster than a local A rider!, same as other classes!
It is a national championship......the A riders at LL are the 42 best A riders (that qualified) in the country at this time. The same holds true for the other classes.

Wait till that super fast C rider at the local track gets to LL and discovers he can't smoke the pack like he does at home. I have witnessed this from the pee wee classes on up.

A national championship should bring out the best riders in each class. If they win....move em up for next year. There are a number of riders who win their C championship and get moved up at every event from then on. Some go on to do great things, others find that in B or A the competition is much more fierce and stick to local racing.

I wish everyone had the opoortunity to experience LL....it really is something special.
SteveS
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7/21/2011 3:32pm
MXMattii wrote:
Is it still the case that you get your pro license due your results at Loretta?? Or I'm miss informed?
SteveS wrote:
The pro license is earned from results in Pro/Am points races and AMA Arenacross races. There have been instances in the past of riders getting pro...
The pro license is earned from results in Pro/Am points races and AMA Arenacross races. There have been instances in the past of riders getting pro licenses after being a Loretta's B or A champion, with factory team backing. But it's not really that hard for a good local A rider to earn the points for a Pro license without ever going to Loretta's.
neysbo wrote:
Top 20 in "A" class at LL, lets you apply for your Pro License as well.
That's true. Here's the whole rule section from the rulebook:

a. All license applicants must be at least 16 years of age at the time
of application.
b. A Motocross license may be issued if the rider has met one of the
following requirements.
i. Held a Pro Motocross license in either 2009 or 2010 or a
Supercross or FIM license in 2009, 2010 or 2011.
ii. Earned at least 75 advancement points (at the time of
application) in the AMA Pro/Am Motocross Series.
iii. Finished in the top 20 overall positions in the AMA Amateur
National Motocross Championship in 2010 or 2011 in the 250A,
450A or Pro Sport classes.
iv. Earned 50 Arenacross class points in the 2009-10 or 35 points
in the 2010-11 AMA Arenacross Series.
v. Earned 75 Arenacross Lites class points in 2009-10 or 60 points
in the 2010-11 AMA Arenacross Series.
vi. AMA Pro Racing may issue a license to any rider who does not
meet the above criteria if it determines, in its sole discretion, the
rider has adequate competition experience.

The Shop

7/21/2011 4:20pm
The biggest problem with C class is that someone has to win. That someone, no matter who he is, is labled a sandbagger.
Dozer
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7/21/2011 9:24pm
This Explains Lorettas Lynns

7/21/2011 10:41pm Edited Date/Time 7/21/2011 10:44pm
Kenny said the riders are mostly older?

Like 7 in the 6 and under?

Or all vets?
35smom wrote:
Would you just shut up already? Unless you change the entire age system that is in the AMA rules then this is what it is. My...
Would you just shut up already? Unless you change the entire age system that is in the AMA rules then this is what it is. My son turned 7 less that 2 months before Lorettas and he won (he was 6 at the regional). You knew the rules going in. Get over it! Geezzzzz!!
Sounds to me like your kid never won again without that advantage since the "age thing" has you so fired up.

I think at a national national event 7 year olds should race guess who?

6 year olds and who?

This is not the first time DC has heard of this. We'll be there and we'll be fast. But we think the rule should change for the kids behind us. Meaning next year. Meaning we don't benefit but the event does.

What is so hard about changing an unfair rule in our littlest racers class?
35smom
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7/22/2011 3:51am Edited Date/Time 7/22/2011 4:27am
Kenny said the riders are mostly older?

Like 7 in the 6 and under?

Or all vets?
35smom wrote:
Would you just shut up already? Unless you change the entire age system that is in the AMA rules then this is what it is. My...
Would you just shut up already? Unless you change the entire age system that is in the AMA rules then this is what it is. My son turned 7 less that 2 months before Lorettas and he won (he was 6 at the regional). You knew the rules going in. Get over it! Geezzzzz!!
Sounds to me like your kid never won again without that advantage since the "age thing" has you so fired up. I think at a national...
Sounds to me like your kid never won again without that advantage since the "age thing" has you so fired up.

I think at a national national event 7 year olds should race guess who?

6 year olds and who?

This is not the first time DC has heard of this. We'll be there and we'll be fast. But we think the rule should change for the kids behind us. Meaning next year. Meaning we don't benefit but the event does.

What is so hard about changing an unfair rule in our littlest racers class?
No he didnt.. (he wasn't the best every year just one) But he has been there every year and in the top 10 quite a few times (3rd and 4th in both 450 B stock and mod last year). So whats your point? Im not fired up but its the exact opposite...I understand and am just fine with the age rules (obviously we are back to LLs for our 11th year!) Ive explained to you a few times why your reasoning is at fault. You want to change a system that has NOTHING to do with DC yet claim he knows there a problem? Call the AMA

Its Life...sometimes your the big fish sometimes your the small one.

If your going to be there this year stop by Daves (Engine Ice) Chicken Fest on Friday..I would just LOVE to talk about this in person! :-)
lumpy790
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York, SC, USA
7/22/2011 7:20am
Rules are rules......some people will like them and some will complain and say they are not fair.

My birthday is late in the year so going threw school I was always the oldest in the class.......did this give me an unfair advantage?
brocster
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7/22/2011 9:54am
Novice dude, When would you suggest the cut off date for age be if it's not at the time of area qualifiers. You know birthdays happen everyday of every year. That being said I am sure that some kids age change between motos at Lorettas...
SteveS
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7/22/2011 10:12am
Sounds to me like your kid never won again without that advantage since the "age thing" has you so fired up. I think at a national...
Sounds to me like your kid never won again without that advantage since the "age thing" has you so fired up.

I think at a national national event 7 year olds should race guess who?

6 year olds and who?

This is not the first time DC has heard of this. We'll be there and we'll be fast. But we think the rule should change for the kids behind us. Meaning next year. Meaning we don't benefit but the event does.

What is so hard about changing an unfair rule in our littlest racers class?
What you don't seem to get is that there is absolutely nothing unfair about an age cutoff rule no matter when the date is set. So what if there are some riders older than others in an age group? You make the cutoff date the day after Loretta's is over, by definition there are no 7 year olds at the race. But guess what? There are going to be some kids there who are a year older than some of the other kids. For that matter, since the class is ages 4-6, there are going to be some kids there who are three years older than the other kids, even though they can't officially say they are 7 yet because their birthday is a week away still. So they are 6 and a half, according to the colloquialism. But they are still a year or more older than some of the other kids there.
DC
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7/22/2011 10:15am
Everyone interested in this topic and the effect that youth dates have on any sport should pick up Malcolm Gladwell's "Outliers" book, which explains why cut-off dates matter in everything from Youth Hockey in Canada to computer-class access in Seattle in the 1960s (think Microsoft). There has to be a date at some point, and it's going to mean more to come kids than others down the road. It's fascinating stuff.

DC
MX Sports
reded
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7/22/2011 10:30am
SteveS wrote:
What you don't seem to get is that there is absolutely nothing unfair about an age cutoff rule no matter when the date is set. So...
What you don't seem to get is that there is absolutely nothing unfair about an age cutoff rule no matter when the date is set. So what if there are some riders older than others in an age group? You make the cutoff date the day after Loretta's is over, by definition there are no 7 year olds at the race. But guess what? There are going to be some kids there who are a year older than some of the other kids. For that matter, since the class is ages 4-6, there are going to be some kids there who are three years older than the other kids, even though they can't officially say they are 7 yet because their birthday is a week away still. So they are 6 and a half, according to the colloquialism. But they are still a year or more older than some of the other kids there.
Big picture bro, in 2 years the 4 yr old will be 6 1/2 and racing against 4 yr olds. Everyone gets their turn.
Ddavis
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7/22/2011 10:39am Edited Date/Time 7/22/2011 10:40am
85 (12-14) Stock and Mod Supermini 1/2, 250 B Mod, Schoolboy 1/2, and the A classes are often the most watched. Although all the classes are important, if you get even a top 10 at LL people are going to notice.
Ddavis
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7/22/2011 10:47am
SlowOldGuy wrote:
The biggest problem with C class is that someone has to win. That someone, no matter who he is, is labled a sandbagger.
My brother raced the intermediate class at Washougal amateur day when he was beginner, just because it was the only class with a spot open. He didn't care that he finished last place he was just happy to race at Washougal! Then a few years later my brother showed up at the regional for the C class and someone protested him and he didn't get to qualify. It was a bummer because the person who won my brother was beating every weekend at the time. Oh well... MX Sports just looked and it said my brother raced B class at Washougal 2 years before so they bumped him up, but realistically he was just a C rider looking to get noticed.
seth505
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7/22/2011 11:48am
mxb2 wrote:
They need a goon class!, i would qualify, lol!
Come on man, are you that confident in taking down Ronnie Mac?? lol
7/22/2011 3:32pm
mxb2 wrote:
They need a goon class!, i would qualify, lol!
seth505 wrote:
Come on man, are you that confident in taking down Ronnie Mac?? lol
I agree, what about the slow guys! Not everybody is fast ya know. We love racing just as much, goon style and all. Ha ha
jkkt
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7/22/2011 4:47pm
DC wrote:
Everyone interested in this topic and the effect that youth dates have on any sport should pick up Malcolm Gladwell's "Outliers" book, which explains why cut-off...
Everyone interested in this topic and the effect that youth dates have on any sport should pick up Malcolm Gladwell's "Outliers" book, which explains why cut-off dates matter in everything from Youth Hockey in Canada to computer-class access in Seattle in the 1960s (think Microsoft). There has to be a date at some point, and it's going to mean more to come kids than others down the road. It's fascinating stuff.

DC
MX Sports
"Outliers" is fascinating, but the solution for the hockey issue of age was to have two different try out dates -Gladwell says the solution is doubling the number of junior hockey leagues—some for kids born in the first half of the year, others for kids born in the second half.

How you can successfully incorporate something like this into amateur motocross when each age group includes a two + year span?

At some point you will be the younger one in the age group and at some point you will be the older one in the age group - it is the nature of defining age groups.

The more important point of Gladwell's book I think is the 10,000 hr rule - basically it takes 10,000 hrs to master something,
In a nutshell, Gladwell believes The Beatles’ success was due to the fact that in their early years in Hamburg, Germany, they had to play very long sets at clubs, in a wide variety of styles, which both helped them to get in their 10,000 hours and forced them to be creative and excel at experimenting. Or just being born during the right time frame has a lot to do with success. He divulges that one 9 year stretch has accounted for more Outliers than any other.

Agreed fascinating stuff - but how would you apply it to amateur motocross to "level the playing field"?
Mr. Info
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7/22/2011 5:01pm
Its all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Ddavis
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7/22/2011 5:06pm
Mr. Info wrote:
Its all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Yeeeep!
dilbert354
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7/22/2011 5:30pm
DC one thing I'm a little curious about is how a kid like Cody Gragg can compete in the GNCC series racing the XC2 PRO LITES class is eligible to compete against kids in the B class. It's my understanding that the GNCC series is a National series and he is competing in a PROFESSIONAL class against other PROFESSIONALS yet he's allowed to drop down and beat up on some amateurs at lorettas in the B class. Also, a kid like Nick desiderio who has been competing in the B class for over 4 YEARS NOW can still be allowed to qualify at lorettas in the B class. Don't get me wrong I think they're both awesome riders and Nick is insane aroudn the northeast here, but that seems odd they're not bumped to A.
SteveS
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7/22/2011 5:35pm Edited Date/Time 7/22/2011 5:41pm
dilbert354 wrote:
DC one thing I'm a little curious about is how a kid like Cody Gragg can compete in the GNCC series racing the XC2 PRO LITES...
DC one thing I'm a little curious about is how a kid like Cody Gragg can compete in the GNCC series racing the XC2 PRO LITES class is eligible to compete against kids in the B class. It's my understanding that the GNCC series is a National series and he is competing in a PROFESSIONAL class against other PROFESSIONALS yet he's allowed to drop down and beat up on some amateurs at lorettas in the B class. Also, a kid like Nick desiderio who has been competing in the B class for over 4 YEARS NOW can still be allowed to qualify at lorettas in the B class. Don't get me wrong I think they're both awesome riders and Nick is insane aroudn the northeast here, but that seems odd they're not bumped to A.
I checked Nick Desiderio's RPV. It was only 13.27 last year. It takes 15 to be pointed up. His RPV this year is 20.75, so he points out after this season.
jndmx
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7/22/2011 8:49pm
Sounds to me like your kid never won again without that advantage since the "age thing" has you so fired up. I think at a national...
Sounds to me like your kid never won again without that advantage since the "age thing" has you so fired up.

I think at a national national event 7 year olds should race guess who?

6 year olds and who?

This is not the first time DC has heard of this. We'll be there and we'll be fast. But we think the rule should change for the kids behind us. Meaning next year. Meaning we don't benefit but the event does.

What is so hard about changing an unfair rule in our littlest racers class?
But we think the rule should change for the kids behind us. Meaning next year. Meaning we don't benefit but the event does

Allow me to call BS on that comment.....

If your kid is going to continue racing and trying for LL's then you will always have the age thing to deal with until he gets well into the big bike classes.

This is all about you and what happened with a 7 year old kid in your son's class......because I would put down even money that if your kid was the one born in January we wouldn't hear a peep about this from you.
Instead it would just be you complaning about how certain people always win the hook-up lottery.......lol.
DC
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7/23/2011 12:40pm
Not sure how to apply "Outliers" to amateur racing...

As for GNCC, it is not a professional series in the sense that you don't have to apply for a pro license to race it from the AMA. And I can remember even Scott Summers and Barry Hark, multi-time champs, starting out in B when they crossed over to race motocross. Neither of them did that well.

And Mr. Info, sorry about the GP thing.

DC
MX Sports
SteveS
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7/23/2011 2:26pm
DC wrote:
Not sure how to apply "Outliers" to amateur racing... As for GNCC, it is not a professional series in the sense that you don't have to...
Not sure how to apply "Outliers" to amateur racing...

As for GNCC, it is not a professional series in the sense that you don't have to apply for a pro license to race it from the AMA. And I can remember even Scott Summers and Barry Hark, multi-time champs, starting out in B when they crossed over to race motocross. Neither of them did that well.

And Mr. Info, sorry about the GP thing.

DC
MX Sports
DC, regarding GNCC, wouldn't running A Class there fall under this rule from the AMA Rulebook? GNCC isn't MX so running A there doesn't make him have to run A in MX?

4. Participation in, or advancement to, a higher class in any
AMA or non-AMA activity by any rider will result in
permanent advancement to that higher class (in like
activity) in all AMA-sanctioned competition. (Like
activity=MX to MX or Enduro to Enduro, etc.)
yak651
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Fantasy
7/23/2011 2:36pm
SlowOldGuy wrote:
The biggest problem with C class is that someone has to win. That someone, no matter who he is, is labled a sandbagger.
Ddavis wrote:
My brother raced the intermediate class at Washougal amateur day when he was beginner, just because it was the only class with a spot open. He...
My brother raced the intermediate class at Washougal amateur day when he was beginner, just because it was the only class with a spot open. He didn't care that he finished last place he was just happy to race at Washougal! Then a few years later my brother showed up at the regional for the C class and someone protested him and he didn't get to qualify. It was a bummer because the person who won my brother was beating every weekend at the time. Oh well... MX Sports just looked and it said my brother raced B class at Washougal 2 years before so they bumped him up, but realistically he was just a C rider looking to get noticed.
Ha, this is the thing wrong with C class "championships". You were bummed that your brother wasn't eligible that he raced a B class 2 years BEFORE trying to qualify for C class? C class should be for beginners, not people that have been racing YEARS!

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