Another LL Regionals Question

ovittmx
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ovittmx
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 11:06am
What do you do if your son is a legitimate C rider by AMA rules and you have information going into the Regional that at least 12 of the entrants on the line with him have competed in B and even A class races in the past? Do you protest or not? Knowing that the AMA or MXSports wont catch them unless someone does and it will be the usual C class at Lorettas loaded with B riders
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bogdan912
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bogdan912 6/14/2011 10:19am
6/14/2011 10:19am
An email to mxsports will take care of that.
Sondy132001
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Sondy132001 6/14/2011 10:29am
6/14/2011 10:29am
ovittmx wrote:
What do you do if your son is a legitimate C rider by AMA rules and you have information going into the Regional that at least...
What do you do if your son is a legitimate C rider by AMA rules and you have information going into the Regional that at least 12 of the entrants on the line with him have competed in B and even A class races in the past? Do you protest or not? Knowing that the AMA or MXSports wont catch them unless someone does and it will be the usual C class at Lorettas loaded with B riders
yeah just send an email along with proof, you need proof.

S
ovittmx
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ovittmx 6/14/2011 10:31am
6/14/2011 10:31am
I have proof, before or after the race?
knowitalloveragainnovice 6/14/2011 10:33am
6/14/2011 10:33am Edited Date/Time 6/14/2011 10:35am
Before.
Let's say your rider get's 8th at the finish and then moved up to 6th via disqualification/protest it will be anticlimactic.

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835
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835 6/14/2011 10:36am
6/14/2011 10:36am
After is ok isn't it?

Your allowed to move up after you qualify at the reginal level. Right?
lumpy790
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lumpy790 6/14/2011 11:03am
6/14/2011 11:03am
Is the proof from a recognized AMA affiliate?

MAMA in Maryland is a youth organization and for a long time they were not recognized by the AMA as being a legitimate racing org so it did not matter what class you raced in with MAMA. I know a rider who won LL 125 C class (didn't win a moto) and also earned the MAMA #1 125 A class championship the same year.

IF I had solid proof I would contact MX Sports before the race.

I dont think you can move up after the regional and be safe from being protested at LL. Stay in the class till after LL then move up.
ovittmx
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ovittmx 6/14/2011 11:18am
6/14/2011 11:18am
one rider was actually advanced to B by the AMA last year and raced B after and wins areas in the C Class this year. . I wonder if the AMA or MXSports will catch on to that. Its sad I dont know what these guys are thinking. To go thru the effort of qualifying without reading the rules before hand. They must think they wont get caught. A simple google search found an easy five from the area qualifiers that shouldnt be in that class. So before or after the regional?
dboivin
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dboivin 6/14/2011 11:37am
6/14/2011 11:37am
protest them out now. be done with it.
35smom
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35smom 6/14/2011 11:37am
6/14/2011 11:37am Edited Date/Time 6/14/2011 11:49am
lumpy790 wrote:
Is the proof from a recognized AMA affiliate? MAMA in Maryland is a youth organization and for a long time they were not recognized by the...
Is the proof from a recognized AMA affiliate?

MAMA in Maryland is a youth organization and for a long time they were not recognized by the AMA as being a legitimate racing org so it did not matter what class you raced in with MAMA. I know a rider who won LL 125 C class (didn't win a moto) and also earned the MAMA #1 125 A class championship the same year.

IF I had solid proof I would contact MX Sports before the race.

I dont think you can move up after the regional and be safe from being protested at LL. Stay in the class till after LL then move up.
It is no longer just an AMA designation, rules now read if you race up a class in any organization then that is your recognized class,
I also have a situation that may come up...The way the rules read for Open Pro Sport and the A classes is you cannot compete in the current years AMA, FIM X1, MX2 or MX3 Pro events and race at Lorettas . Ideally I would have loved to take my son to a few of the Canadian National rounds before Lorettas for the experience. I did not as was worried about following the rules...others we race with have done so though. Im not worried about protesting but is it fair to the riders that finished 1 spot out of qualifying? Especially out west where they only take 4 from the regional?
SIMX
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SIMX 6/14/2011 11:40am
6/14/2011 11:40am Edited Date/Time 6/14/2011 11:44am
11. Challenges to rider eligibility must be in writing and sent certified mail, U.S. postmarked no later than June 30, 2011. Rider eligibility protests after this date will be accepted at the sole discretion of MX Sports.

Do it as soon as you can.
35smom
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35smom 6/14/2011 11:40am
6/14/2011 11:40am
ovittmx wrote:
one rider was actually advanced to B by the AMA last year and raced B after and wins areas in the C Class this year....
one rider was actually advanced to B by the AMA last year and raced B after and wins areas in the C Class this year. . I wonder if the AMA or MXSports will catch on to that. Its sad I dont know what these guys are thinking. To go thru the effort of qualifying without reading the rules before hand. They must think they wont get caught. A simple google search found an easy five from the area qualifiers that shouldnt be in that class. So before or after the regional?
Send an email to MXsports. Go to the regional and bring proof of what you are saying. Depending on the referee, a call will have to be placed to MXSports to confirm and the rider may be able to compete under protest. Good Luck
SIMX
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SIMX 6/14/2011 11:49am
6/14/2011 11:49am
ovittmx wrote:
one rider was actually advanced to B by the AMA last year and raced B after and wins areas in the C Class this year....
one rider was actually advanced to B by the AMA last year and raced B after and wins areas in the C Class this year. . I wonder if the AMA or MXSports will catch on to that. Its sad I dont know what these guys are thinking. To go thru the effort of qualifying without reading the rules before hand. They must think they wont get caught. A simple google search found an easy five from the area qualifiers that shouldnt be in that class. So before or after the regional?
35smom wrote:
Send an email to MXsports. Go to the regional and bring proof of what you are saying. Depending on the referee, a call will have to...
Send an email to MXsports. Go to the regional and bring proof of what you are saying. Depending on the referee, a call will have to be placed to MXSports to confirm and the rider may be able to compete under protest. Good Luck
Good advice!
I misunderstood and thought the sandbagger had done qualified at a regional!
Good luck!!
SIMX
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SIMX 6/14/2011 11:51am
6/14/2011 11:51am Edited Date/Time 6/14/2011 11:53am
Woohoo Or better yet, post a name here and let the Vital Vultures have a whack at him! I remember a few months back a similar A rider was asking about sponsorship in the c lass or something. He didn't last long!
Sondy132001
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Sondy132001 6/14/2011 11:52am
6/14/2011 11:52am
lumpy790 wrote:
Is the proof from a recognized AMA affiliate? MAMA in Maryland is a youth organization and for a long time they were not recognized by the...
Is the proof from a recognized AMA affiliate?

MAMA in Maryland is a youth organization and for a long time they were not recognized by the AMA as being a legitimate racing org so it did not matter what class you raced in with MAMA. I know a rider who won LL 125 C class (didn't win a moto) and also earned the MAMA #1 125 A class championship the same year.

IF I had solid proof I would contact MX Sports before the race.

I dont think you can move up after the regional and be safe from being protested at LL. Stay in the class till after LL then move up.
35smom wrote:
It is no longer just an AMA designation, rules now read if you race up a class in any organization then that is your recognized class...
It is no longer just an AMA designation, rules now read if you race up a class in any organization then that is your recognized class,
I also have a situation that may come up...The way the rules read for Open Pro Sport and the A classes is you cannot compete in the current years AMA, FIM X1, MX2 or MX3 Pro events and race at Lorettas . Ideally I would have loved to take my son to a few of the Canadian National rounds before Lorettas for the experience. I did not as was worried about following the rules...others we race with have done so though. Im not worried about protesting but is it fair to the riders that finished 1 spot out of qualifying? Especially out west where they only take 4 from the regional?
Yeah we have very little AMA over here in CA, so I would send any proof you have NOW to them so they can get on it and take care of it now, afterwards would be a waste, let the kids get their sunshine/glory that day not in a letter =)

S
ovittmx
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ovittmx 6/14/2011 12:17pm
6/14/2011 12:17pm
If I posted it here it would be a long list believe it or not, Im just in a moral dilemma here, i wish it was that simple, i dont want to be a whistle blower but I also dont want to see legitimate C riders jipped out of their chance to go to Lorettas. I guess though it is that simple. I guess I just dont want to be known as THE whistleblower, but Im also trying to teach my teenage son whats right and wrong. Thats my dilemma
35smom
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35smom 6/14/2011 12:20pm
6/14/2011 12:20pm
lumpy790 wrote:
Is the proof from a recognized AMA affiliate? MAMA in Maryland is a youth organization and for a long time they were not recognized by the...
Is the proof from a recognized AMA affiliate?

MAMA in Maryland is a youth organization and for a long time they were not recognized by the AMA as being a legitimate racing org so it did not matter what class you raced in with MAMA. I know a rider who won LL 125 C class (didn't win a moto) and also earned the MAMA #1 125 A class championship the same year.

IF I had solid proof I would contact MX Sports before the race.

I dont think you can move up after the regional and be safe from being protested at LL. Stay in the class till after LL then move up.
35smom wrote:
It is no longer just an AMA designation, rules now read if you race up a class in any organization then that is your recognized class...
It is no longer just an AMA designation, rules now read if you race up a class in any organization then that is your recognized class,
I also have a situation that may come up...The way the rules read for Open Pro Sport and the A classes is you cannot compete in the current years AMA, FIM X1, MX2 or MX3 Pro events and race at Lorettas . Ideally I would have loved to take my son to a few of the Canadian National rounds before Lorettas for the experience. I did not as was worried about following the rules...others we race with have done so though. Im not worried about protesting but is it fair to the riders that finished 1 spot out of qualifying? Especially out west where they only take 4 from the regional?
Sondy132001 wrote:
Yeah we have very little AMA over here in CA, so I would send any proof you have NOW to them so they can get on...
Yeah we have very little AMA over here in CA, so I would send any proof you have NOW to them so they can get on it and take care of it now, afterwards would be a waste, let the kids get their sunshine/glory that day not in a letter =)

S
Sondy
What I would hope would be the same rider would be given the opportunity to try and qualify in the appropriate class at this regional by a very nice promoter Smile They can take up to 64 riders on the gate in each class.
Its the parents not the kids who make bad decisions. Unfortunately in this case I believe its going to be a hard lesson learned.
ovittmx
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ovittmx 6/14/2011 12:26pm
6/14/2011 12:26pm Edited Date/Time 6/14/2011 12:28pm
Heres what I saw happen. At an area a short while back a few riders were protested for c class eligibility. The referee at that particular track judged that they should be DQ'd and werent allowed to race that weekend. So these riders just went to a different area the next week and qualified in. So I sorta ask myself why bother? But I also feel like someone has to do something.
Sondy132001
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Sondy132001 6/14/2011 12:26pm
6/14/2011 12:26pm
ovittmx wrote:
If I posted it here it would be a long list believe it or not, Im just in a moral dilemma here, i wish it was...
If I posted it here it would be a long list believe it or not, Im just in a moral dilemma here, i wish it was that simple, i dont want to be a whistle blower but I also dont want to see legitimate C riders jipped out of their chance to go to Lorettas. I guess though it is that simple. I guess I just dont want to be known as THE whistleblower, but Im also trying to teach my teenage son whats right and wrong. Thats my dilemma
Don't post it here, just email or snail mail it (anonymously) if you like, people do that with me all the time, they send me info and you, as a promoter, take care of it or just don't, just depends on the situation. When people protest at the races they like to be kept anonymous too, so it's not a big deal. If the parents are cheating with their kids they deserve to get popped if they aren't then you did your job researching it and handling it in the right way.

S

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knowitalloveragainnovice 6/14/2011 12:30pm
6/14/2011 12:30pm
ovittmx wrote:
If I posted it here it would be a long list believe it or not, Im just in a moral dilemma here, i wish it was...
If I posted it here it would be a long list believe it or not, Im just in a moral dilemma here, i wish it was that simple, i dont want to be a whistle blower but I also dont want to see legitimate C riders jipped out of their chance to go to Lorettas. I guess though it is that simple. I guess I just dont want to be known as THE whistleblower, but Im also trying to teach my teenage son whats right and wrong. Thats my dilemma
Sandbagging needs to be removed from the sport.

The hero worship, the family alliances, the track owners looking the other way because they struggle to earn, the favoritism, the local boy network and then there are those that are just plain afraid to be the bad guy while the bad guy is the sand bagger?

I'm in favor of no skill levels at lorettas. The baddest 15 year olds should duke it out for a national title. If you are not one of those 42? Well then there is next year and good luck, but that's a different discussion.

Same for the baddest 14 year olds and 8 year olds and 6 year olds. etc.
SlowOldGuy 6/14/2011 12:35pm
6/14/2011 12:35pm
I would e-mail Kip Bigelow at the AMA with links to the results where these riders competed in higher classes with a copy to MX Sports. In the event they have competed in higher classes in AMA competition, the results should be on the AMA results website. E-mail those links as well.
mx5471
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mx5471 6/14/2011 12:36pm
6/14/2011 12:36pm
Better do it ASAP,and have good proof. I know for sure at Loretta's the first thing they'll say at the opening ceremonies is that they won't take a protest based on a rider's class. They'll say you already had plenty of time to do it. I would send the email with proof,follow up by mailing it as they say to, and print a copy of it and your proof,and bring it to the regional with you and protest it to the AMA official before the races start. Good luck.
Sondy132001
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Sondy132001 6/14/2011 12:47pm
6/14/2011 12:47pm
Little story: When I was 22 I think ?? I went to Texas for the GNC with my brother, he was 17, it was our first big Amateur National outside of CA. My brother was racing Intermediate. We were pitted with Yamaha, and there were a bunch of guys from Michigan there racing Intermediate also. We had heard from several people there that the guys race Pro in MI, not like I had any proof, I didn't know they were going to be there, this was before cells & internet lol I'm pretty sure it was Damon Bradshaw's mom ?? seriously my brain can't keep track of it all, but she pulled out like 3 years worth of cycle new's and busted all 3-4 of these guys, her son was racing intermediate with my brother too, so you can always be that person and she didn't care who she pissed off, you cheat ?? you get busted lol

S
knowitalloveragainnovice 6/14/2011 12:52pm
6/14/2011 12:52pm
Sondy132001 wrote:
Little story: When I was 22 I think ?? I went to Texas for the GNC with my brother, he was 17, it was our first...
Little story: When I was 22 I think ?? I went to Texas for the GNC with my brother, he was 17, it was our first big Amateur National outside of CA. My brother was racing Intermediate. We were pitted with Yamaha, and there were a bunch of guys from Michigan there racing Intermediate also. We had heard from several people there that the guys race Pro in MI, not like I had any proof, I didn't know they were going to be there, this was before cells & internet lol I'm pretty sure it was Damon Bradshaw's mom ?? seriously my brain can't keep track of it all, but she pulled out like 3 years worth of cycle new's and busted all 3-4 of these guys, her son was racing intermediate with my brother too, so you can always be that person and she didn't care who she pissed off, you cheat ?? you get busted lol

S
That's the point.

No one should be afraid to call out sandbaggers.

You are doing the right thing for your son, yourself, the sport and all the riders who "legitiately are C riders" whether I believe the class belongs at a national championship or can be policed effectively or not, but that's another discussion.
Mini Elsinore
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Mini Elsinore 6/14/2011 1:00pm
6/14/2011 1:00pm
Classification is one issue. But......in the mini classes there is a bigger issue. I've seen more than one kid's age change after their mini days were over. Mention this issue sometime at a NMA/AMA rider's meeting and notice the body language exhibited by certain mini parents (and sponsors)..... I was brow-beaten by a sponsor for being honest about my kid's age at his first national. He said, and I quote, "man, you just royally screwed your kid out of 2 more good years in the class. He will get his ass beat when he moves up next year." He walked off shaking his head. Everybody has a story. How deep do you want to take this topic?
Mini Elsinore
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Mini Elsinore 6/14/2011 1:01pm
6/14/2011 1:01pm Edited Date/Time 6/14/2011 1:02pm
Sondy132001 wrote:
Little story: When I was 22 I think ?? I went to Texas for the GNC with my brother, he was 17, it was our first...
Little story: When I was 22 I think ?? I went to Texas for the GNC with my brother, he was 17, it was our first big Amateur National outside of CA. My brother was racing Intermediate. We were pitted with Yamaha, and there were a bunch of guys from Michigan there racing Intermediate also. We had heard from several people there that the guys race Pro in MI, not like I had any proof, I didn't know they were going to be there, this was before cells & internet lol I'm pretty sure it was Damon Bradshaw's mom ?? seriously my brain can't keep track of it all, but she pulled out like 3 years worth of cycle new's and busted all 3-4 of these guys, her son was racing intermediate with my brother too, so you can always be that person and she didn't care who she pissed off, you cheat ?? you get busted lol

S
Astrodome, eh? I remember Team Dynamic........ Wink

Edit: Just saw SlowOldGuy's post. Irony?
knowitalloveragainnovice 6/14/2011 1:02pm
6/14/2011 1:02pm
Mini Elsinore wrote:
Classification is one issue. But......in the mini classes there is a bigger issue. I've seen more than one kid's age change after their mini days were...
Classification is one issue. But......in the mini classes there is a bigger issue. I've seen more than one kid's age change after their mini days were over. Mention this issue sometime at a NMA/AMA rider's meeting and notice the body language exhibited by certain mini parents (and sponsors)..... I was brow-beaten by a sponsor for being honest about my kid's age at his first national. He said, and I quote, "man, you just royally screwed your kid out of 2 more good years in the class. He will get his ass beat when he moves up next year." He walked off shaking his head. Everybody has a story. How deep do you want to take this topic?
I'm down to play along.

Cheating on skill classification, or adding some horsepower is bad enough but cheating on age is a downright despicable and should call for a lifetime ban.
ovittmx
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ovittmx 6/14/2011 1:11pm
6/14/2011 1:11pm
Im glad to feel supported by this as I've kept this to myself the last few weeks and you all have helped to make my decision a little easier.
SteveS
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SteveS 6/14/2011 1:32pm
6/14/2011 1:32pm
Mini Elsinore wrote:
Classification is one issue. But......in the mini classes there is a bigger issue. I've seen more than one kid's age change after their mini days were...
Classification is one issue. But......in the mini classes there is a bigger issue. I've seen more than one kid's age change after their mini days were over. Mention this issue sometime at a NMA/AMA rider's meeting and notice the body language exhibited by certain mini parents (and sponsors)..... I was brow-beaten by a sponsor for being honest about my kid's age at his first national. He said, and I quote, "man, you just royally screwed your kid out of 2 more good years in the class. He will get his ass beat when he moves up next year." He walked off shaking his head. Everybody has a story. How deep do you want to take this topic?
knowitalloveragainnovice wrote:
I'm down to play along. Cheating on skill classification, or adding some horsepower is bad enough but cheating on age is a downright despicable and should...
I'm down to play along.

Cheating on skill classification, or adding some horsepower is bad enough but cheating on age is a downright despicable and should call for a lifetime ban.
How do they cheat on that one? Pull an Obama? Last time we had Matt running area qualifiers (some years ago) you had to bring a birth certificate to enter.
HatersSuck
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HatersSuck 6/14/2011 1:37pm
6/14/2011 1:37pm Edited Date/Time 6/14/2011 1:40pm
ovittmx wrote:
What do you do if your son is a legitimate C rider by AMA rules and you have information going into the Regional that at least...
What do you do if your son is a legitimate C rider by AMA rules and you have information going into the Regional that at least 12 of the entrants on the line with him have competed in B and even A class races in the past? Do you protest or not? Knowing that the AMA or MXSports wont catch them unless someone does and it will be the usual C class at Lorettas loaded with B riders
Look, Just go there and have fun. There is not a legitimate C rider on the gate. MXSports does not have the time or energy to watch C riders. Stop being a mini dad wasting your time trying and level the playing field in the C class. Its been the B+ class for 20 yrs and it is not going to change with a letter from you
Sondy132001
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Sondy132001 6/14/2011 1:38pm
6/14/2011 1:38pm
Mini Elsinore wrote:
Classification is one issue. But......in the mini classes there is a bigger issue. I've seen more than one kid's age change after their mini days were...
Classification is one issue. But......in the mini classes there is a bigger issue. I've seen more than one kid's age change after their mini days were over. Mention this issue sometime at a NMA/AMA rider's meeting and notice the body language exhibited by certain mini parents (and sponsors)..... I was brow-beaten by a sponsor for being honest about my kid's age at his first national. He said, and I quote, "man, you just royally screwed your kid out of 2 more good years in the class. He will get his ass beat when he moves up next year." He walked off shaking his head. Everybody has a story. How deep do you want to take this topic?
knowitalloveragainnovice wrote:
I'm down to play along. Cheating on skill classification, or adding some horsepower is bad enough but cheating on age is a downright despicable and should...
I'm down to play along.

Cheating on skill classification, or adding some horsepower is bad enough but cheating on age is a downright despicable and should call for a lifetime ban.
SteveS wrote:
How do they cheat on that one? Pull an Obama? Last time we had Matt running area qualifiers (some years ago) you had to bring a...
How do they cheat on that one? Pull an Obama? Last time we had Matt running area qualifiers (some years ago) you had to bring a birth certificate to enter.
And people don't counterfeit legal documents ??

S

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