New CRF motor?

kiwifan
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kiwifan
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 12:43pm
Honda unveils its new NSF250R machine, and it looks as though it is similiar to the Yammy MX engines....is this the 2013 CRF motor??

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/791/10188/Motorcycle-Article/Honda-Unveil…
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skidsteer16
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skidsteer16 6/2/2011 11:49pm
6/2/2011 11:49pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2011 1:35am
yeah...um. no.



"The NSF250 engine was developed exclusively for road racing" Wink

...more specifically Moto3 bikes
PaleBlue
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PaleBlue 6/3/2011 12:36am
6/3/2011 12:36am Edited Date/Time 6/3/2011 12:55am
skidsteer16 wrote:
yeah...um. no. [img]https://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/280026/images/honda-nsf-250-r-2.jpg[/img] "The NSF250 engine was developed exclusively for road racing" ;) ...more specifically Moto3 bikes
yeah...um. no.



"The NSF250 engine was developed exclusively for road racing" Wink

...more specifically Moto3 bikes
Never mind the little emoticon, Honda HAVE developed this purely for Moto3. They considered the MX engine too unreliable when producing the required horsepower for road racing. The power characteristics will not be suitable for MX and nor will the longevity of the motor - see the new motor per moto threadSmile

It will be available for $12,000 though.
scotttydog 6/3/2011 12:44am
6/3/2011 12:44am
A high revving single cylinder 4 stroke, Oh what a great idea that is Huh
PaleBlue
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PaleBlue 6/3/2011 12:56am
6/3/2011 12:56am
scotttydog wrote:
A high revving single cylinder 4 stroke, Oh what a great idea that is Huh
It's ideal for it's intended use.

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kiwifan
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kiwifan 6/3/2011 1:36am
6/3/2011 1:36am
skidsteer16 wrote:
yeah...um. no. [img]https://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/280026/images/honda-nsf-250-r-2.jpg[/img] "The NSF250 engine was developed exclusively for road racing" ;) ...more specifically Moto3 bikes
yeah...um. no.



"The NSF250 engine was developed exclusively for road racing" Wink

...more specifically Moto3 bikes
PaleBlue wrote:
Never mind the little emoticon, Honda HAVE developed this [u]purely[/u] for Moto3. They considered the MX engine too unreliable when producing the required horsepower for road...
Never mind the little emoticon, Honda HAVE developed this purely for Moto3. They considered the MX engine too unreliable when producing the required horsepower for road racing. The power characteristics will not be suitable for MX and nor will the longevity of the motor - see the new motor per moto threadSmile

It will be available for $12,000 though.
I hear ya, and I agree to some extent, but we all know the motogp tehnology flows down to all facets of other motorbike models at some stage, if viable...so there is no reason why a new CRF motor could not be based upon this design, with obvious differences in power characteristics.
Motodude
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Motodude 6/3/2011 1:49am
6/3/2011 1:49am
this is the thumper bike for the soon to be dead 125 GP class.
T-Fish
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T-Fish 6/3/2011 2:58am
6/3/2011 2:58am
scotttydog wrote:
A high revving single cylinder 4 stroke, Oh what a great idea that is Huh
PaleBlue wrote:
It's ideal for it's intended use.
Yeah, emptying the wallets of consumers.
DrSweden
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DrSweden 6/3/2011 5:36am
6/3/2011 5:36am
Only 35 hp?
enginedr
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enginedr 6/3/2011 5:42am
6/3/2011 5:42am
this engine will never be in a production honda dirt bike , its a reverse ported head like a new yami 450, and cylinder is tilted way to the back for port angle...and the transmission ratios are way off too. but for a street hot rod light weight machine its a cool bike.
blumx357
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blumx357 6/3/2011 6:51am
6/3/2011 6:51am
DrSweden wrote:
Only 35 hp?
35kW=48hp
Suns_PSD
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Suns_PSD 6/3/2011 8:31am
6/3/2011 8:31am Edited Date/Time 6/3/2011 8:32am
I'm not big into the whole "4 strokes have ruined the world" conspiracy theories but as an ex roadracer and someone who has followed this sport for 2 decades let me be very clear that "4 STROKES HAVE RUINED ROADRACING".

The 90hp, 250#, 250cc 2 stroke racebikes were replaced by 600cc spec Honda 4 strokes, that are 2.5-3.5 seconds slower per lap. They break more, cost more, and weigh more.

More importantly the 8-10 scooter manufacturers that use to compete and mostly sell 2 stroke scooters in their huge home markets have no racing environment to try out the latest 2 stroke technologies or no series to get brand recognition any longer. So we are back to the big 4 again.

This 250F will replace the 125cc 2 strokes btw.

Did I mention that the racing is a complete snorefest at this point? It's really bad these days.
indy_maico
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indy_maico 6/3/2011 8:49am
6/3/2011 8:49am
When I read about the reversed head and the rearward slanted cylinder, my first thought was that Honda had wasted no time copying Yamaha, just as they always have.

But then I thought about their current MotoGP engine, which is a V4, so basically this engine is one of the rear cylinders sliced off the current block to make a 250 single.

I'll reserve my disgust for when and if they do come out with a similar architecture for the CRF's!
typhoon67
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typhoon67 6/3/2011 9:49am
6/3/2011 9:49am Edited Date/Time 6/3/2011 9:52am
Yamaha copied 26 different manufacturers when they did the reverse/offset cylinder deal, even Honda had a 5 valve head in 1983.......dont think for a minute that any japanese company has come up with a new idea that wasnt thought of 30-90 years prior.....they are the originasl copycats....exhaust power valves, linkage suspension, reverse cylinders, floating discs, radial calipers,upside down forks, floating piston shock resovoirs, fuel injection, turbo chargers, aluminum frames, cartridge forks, pressurized airboxes, monocoque frames, digital ignitions, and more.....all have been created before any of the Japanese companies began making motorcycles for export.....
Shawn142
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Shawn142 6/3/2011 10:02am
6/3/2011 10:02am
Suns_PSD wrote:
I'm not big into the whole "4 strokes have ruined the world" conspiracy theories but as an ex roadracer and someone who has followed this sport...
I'm not big into the whole "4 strokes have ruined the world" conspiracy theories but as an ex roadracer and someone who has followed this sport for 2 decades let me be very clear that "4 STROKES HAVE RUINED ROADRACING".

The 90hp, 250#, 250cc 2 stroke racebikes were replaced by 600cc spec Honda 4 strokes, that are 2.5-3.5 seconds slower per lap. They break more, cost more, and weigh more.

More importantly the 8-10 scooter manufacturers that use to compete and mostly sell 2 stroke scooters in their huge home markets have no racing environment to try out the latest 2 stroke technologies or no series to get brand recognition any longer. So we are back to the big 4 again.

This 250F will replace the 125cc 2 strokes btw.

Did I mention that the racing is a complete snorefest at this point? It's really bad these days.
I agree with you on some of that, but what manufacturer besides Aprila ran a bike out there to improve their 2-stroke technology? There are a few Derbi's in the 125 class, but unless you were on a factory spec Aprilia or the 1-off Honda Aoyama raced there were no other options. Except for a customer Aprilia that was a significant handicap. All the other OEMs had already dropped their 2-stroke programs, so it wasn't like the class was diverse.
Mod Killer
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Mod Killer 6/3/2011 2:06pm
6/3/2011 2:06pm
PaleBlue wrote:
Never mind the little emoticon, Honda HAVE developed this [u]purely[/u] for Moto3. They considered the MX engine too unreliable when producing the required horsepower for road...
Never mind the little emoticon, Honda HAVE developed this purely for Moto3. They considered the MX engine too unreliable when producing the required horsepower for road racing. The power characteristics will not be suitable for MX and nor will the longevity of the motor - see the new motor per moto threadSmile

It will be available for $12,000 though.
im confused.....the mx engine is too unreliable for this application. so they develop a motor that is reliable enough for road racing....but wont have enough longevity for mx?

ummm....that doesnt make any sense. please explain. im missing something.



its gonna be a while, but no doubt some of the tech will make its way down to mx. it always has. f1>motogp>mx
RACEGUY
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RACEGUY 6/3/2011 2:29pm
6/3/2011 2:29pm
PaleBlue wrote:
Never mind the little emoticon, Honda HAVE developed this [u]purely[/u] for Moto3. They considered the MX engine too unreliable when producing the required horsepower for road...
Never mind the little emoticon, Honda HAVE developed this purely for Moto3. They considered the MX engine too unreliable when producing the required horsepower for road racing. The power characteristics will not be suitable for MX and nor will the longevity of the motor - see the new motor per moto threadSmile

It will be available for $12,000 though.
Are you talking about purchasing a MOTOR for 12,000? Not sure what you're saying.
PaleBlue
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PaleBlue 6/3/2011 9:12pm
6/3/2011 9:12pm
PaleBlue wrote:
Never mind the little emoticon, Honda HAVE developed this [u]purely[/u] for Moto3. They considered the MX engine too unreliable when producing the required horsepower for road...
Never mind the little emoticon, Honda HAVE developed this purely for Moto3. They considered the MX engine too unreliable when producing the required horsepower for road racing. The power characteristics will not be suitable for MX and nor will the longevity of the motor - see the new motor per moto threadSmile

It will be available for $12,000 though.
RACEGUY wrote:
Are you talking about purchasing a MOTOR for 12,000? Not sure what you're saying.
Yes, All Moto-3 engines must be freely available to other racers for 12,000 (Euros, i think).

As for Suns-PDS 4 strokes ruining racing, do you really believe 2 stoke were cheap!?! A competitive 125 Grand Prix bike is currently 1 Million to LEASE per season to from Aprillia. Moto-3 bikes may well be slower but the racing will be better and the grids fuller - just like Moto2, which is a huge improvement over the 250's. Snorefest? you have to be kidding......

Modkiller "- im confused.....the mx engine is too unreliable for this application. so they develop a motor that is reliable enough for road racing....but wont have enough longevity for mx?"

Getting 50hp from the current 250 CRF motor was deemed (by HRC) an unreliable option - so all new motor.The new motor will last long enough for single motos before needing rebuilding but not be reliable enough to be put into a production CRF - is what I meant.
Mod Killer
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Mod Killer 6/3/2011 9:28pm
6/3/2011 9:28pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2011 9:29pm
i understood what u were trying to say. it still doesnt make sense.

crf not reliable enough for the nsf, so they make a more reliable motor. and then you go on to say that the nsf motor aint reliable enough for the crf.

is anyone else not as confused as i am?

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PaleBlue
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PaleBlue 6/3/2011 9:34pm
6/3/2011 9:34pm
Mod Killer wrote:
i understood what u were trying to say. it still doesnt make sense. crf not reliable enough for the nsf, so they make a more reliable...
i understood what u were trying to say. it still doesnt make sense.

crf not reliable enough for the nsf, so they make a more reliable motor. and then you go on to say that the nsf motor aint reliable enough for the crf.

is anyone else not as confused as i am?
Doubt it....
Mod Killer
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Mod Killer 6/3/2011 9:40pm
6/3/2011 9:40pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2011 9:41pm
please explain why the new motor is reliable enough for the nsf, yet not reliable enough for the crf?

you contradict yourself.
gotwings
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gotwings 6/3/2011 10:53pm
6/3/2011 10:53pm
indy_maico wrote:
When I read about the reversed head and the rearward slanted cylinder, my first thought was that Honda had wasted no time copying Yamaha, just as...
When I read about the reversed head and the rearward slanted cylinder, my first thought was that Honda had wasted no time copying Yamaha, just as they always have.

But then I thought about their current MotoGP engine, which is a V4, so basically this engine is one of the rear cylinders sliced off the current block to make a 250 single.

I'll reserve my disgust for when and if they do come out with a similar architecture for the CRF's!
You gotta be kidding about Honda copying Yamaha! What a fucking joke! Wash out your mouth with soap and do look into motorcycle evolution history. Honda has pioneered 9 out of 10 of the everyday features of motorcycles that we find so common today...
gotwings
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gotwings 6/3/2011 10:54pm
6/3/2011 10:54pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2011 10:55pm
BTW, the Yzf450 is a Cannondale with a tuning fork on the tank...
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Shawn142 6/4/2011 5:17am
6/4/2011 5:17am Edited Date/Time 6/4/2011 5:18am
Mod Killer wrote:
please explain why the new motor is reliable enough for the nsf, yet not reliable enough for the crf?

you contradict yourself.
His statement is pretty clear.

"Getting 50hp from the current 250 CRF motor was deemed (by HRC) an unreliable option - so all new motor.The new motor will last long enough for single motos before needing rebuilding but not be reliable enough to be put into a production CRF - is what I meant."

They designed it by his statement to be reliable for race distance of 1 GP. Would you agree that is certainly not a good thing to put into a production bike you want to ride every weekend?
PaleBlue
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PaleBlue 6/4/2011 6:07am
6/4/2011 6:07am Edited Date/Time 6/4/2011 6:08am
Mod Killer wrote:
please explain why the new motor is reliable enough for the nsf, yet not reliable enough for the crf?

you contradict yourself.
Shawn142 wrote:
His statement is pretty clear. "Getting 50hp from the current 250 CRF motor was deemed (by HRC) an unreliable option - so all new motor.The new...
His statement is pretty clear.

"Getting 50hp from the current 250 CRF motor was deemed (by HRC) an unreliable option - so all new motor.The new motor will last long enough for single motos before needing rebuilding but not be reliable enough to be put into a production CRF - is what I meant."

They designed it by his statement to be reliable for race distance of 1 GP. Would you agree that is certainly not a good thing to put into a production bike you want to ride every weekend?
'Xactly... Smile
dcg141
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dcg141 6/4/2011 11:56am
6/4/2011 11:56am
indy_maico wrote:
When I read about the reversed head and the rearward slanted cylinder, my first thought was that Honda had wasted no time copying Yamaha, just as...
When I read about the reversed head and the rearward slanted cylinder, my first thought was that Honda had wasted no time copying Yamaha, just as they always have.

But then I thought about their current MotoGP engine, which is a V4, so basically this engine is one of the rear cylinders sliced off the current block to make a 250 single.

I'll reserve my disgust for when and if they do come out with a similar architecture for the CRF's!
gotwings wrote:
You gotta be kidding about Honda copying Yamaha! What a fucking joke! Wash out your mouth with soap and do look into motorcycle evolution history. Honda...
You gotta be kidding about Honda copying Yamaha! What a fucking joke! Wash out your mouth with soap and do look into motorcycle evolution history. Honda has pioneered 9 out of 10 of the everyday features of motorcycles that we find so common today...
Hmm lets run down that list
1. Watercooling..no
2. Disc Brakes..no
3. Single shock rear suspension..no
4. Inverted forks..no
5. Power Valve 2 strokes..no
6. 4 stroke MX..no
7. Central Mass engine..not yet
8. Fuel Injection..no
9. Aluminum Frame..yes
10. Hydraulic clutch..not yet

Well there is one. But they have been on the front edge of dual silencers.
indy_maico
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indy_maico 6/4/2011 1:06pm
6/4/2011 1:06pm Edited Date/Time 6/4/2011 1:06pm
dcg141 wrote:
Hmm lets run down that list 1. Watercooling..no 2. Disc Brakes..no 3. Single shock rear suspension..no 4. Inverted forks..no 5. Power Valve 2 strokes..no 6. 4...
Hmm lets run down that list
1. Watercooling..no
2. Disc Brakes..no
3. Single shock rear suspension..no
4. Inverted forks..no
5. Power Valve 2 strokes..no
6. 4 stroke MX..no
7. Central Mass engine..not yet
8. Fuel Injection..no
9. Aluminum Frame..yes
10. Hydraulic clutch..not yet

Well there is one. But they have been on the front edge of dual silencers.
Let's not forget the 23 inch front wheel that Honda "pioneered"

Honda really wasn't the first aluminum frame in MX, etither. Greeves did it in the 60's, and Yamaha did it on the YZM500 works bike 10 years before Honda did it on a what was (admittedly) production bike.
gotwings
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gotwings 6/4/2011 3:31pm
6/4/2011 3:31pm
indy_maico wrote:
When I read about the reversed head and the rearward slanted cylinder, my first thought was that Honda had wasted no time copying Yamaha, just as...
When I read about the reversed head and the rearward slanted cylinder, my first thought was that Honda had wasted no time copying Yamaha, just as they always have.

But then I thought about their current MotoGP engine, which is a V4, so basically this engine is one of the rear cylinders sliced off the current block to make a 250 single.

I'll reserve my disgust for when and if they do come out with a similar architecture for the CRF's!
gotwings wrote:
You gotta be kidding about Honda copying Yamaha! What a fucking joke! Wash out your mouth with soap and do look into motorcycle evolution history. Honda...
You gotta be kidding about Honda copying Yamaha! What a fucking joke! Wash out your mouth with soap and do look into motorcycle evolution history. Honda has pioneered 9 out of 10 of the everyday features of motorcycles that we find so common today...
dcg141 wrote:
Hmm lets run down that list 1. Watercooling..no 2. Disc Brakes..no 3. Single shock rear suspension..no 4. Inverted forks..no 5. Power Valve 2 strokes..no 6. 4...
Hmm lets run down that list
1. Watercooling..no
2. Disc Brakes..no
3. Single shock rear suspension..no
4. Inverted forks..no
5. Power Valve 2 strokes..no
6. 4 stroke MX..no
7. Central Mass engine..not yet
8. Fuel Injection..no
9. Aluminum Frame..yes
10. Hydraulic clutch..not yet

Well there is one. But they have been on the front edge of dual silencers.
1. Honda did pioneer watercooling on a production motocrosser on the 1981 Cr250.

2. Actually, Honda did pioneer dics brakes on a production motorcycle on the 1969 Cb750, which was also the "first superbike" with a 4-cylinder transverse layout.

3.But they did pioneer the linkage rear suspension with the "pro-link".

7. Not even sure what this crap means...

10. Not sure if you've seen the bike leading the Outdoor points...
dcg141
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dcg141 6/4/2011 4:55pm
6/4/2011 4:55pm Edited Date/Time 6/4/2011 4:56pm
gotwings wrote:
You gotta be kidding about Honda copying Yamaha! What a fucking joke! Wash out your mouth with soap and do look into motorcycle evolution history. Honda...
You gotta be kidding about Honda copying Yamaha! What a fucking joke! Wash out your mouth with soap and do look into motorcycle evolution history. Honda has pioneered 9 out of 10 of the everyday features of motorcycles that we find so common today...
dcg141 wrote:
Hmm lets run down that list 1. Watercooling..no 2. Disc Brakes..no 3. Single shock rear suspension..no 4. Inverted forks..no 5. Power Valve 2 strokes..no 6. 4...
Hmm lets run down that list
1. Watercooling..no
2. Disc Brakes..no
3. Single shock rear suspension..no
4. Inverted forks..no
5. Power Valve 2 strokes..no
6. 4 stroke MX..no
7. Central Mass engine..not yet
8. Fuel Injection..no
9. Aluminum Frame..yes
10. Hydraulic clutch..not yet

Well there is one. But they have been on the front edge of dual silencers.
gotwings wrote:
1. Honda did pioneer watercooling on a production motocrosser on the 1981 Cr250. 2. Actually, Honda did pioneer dics brakes on a production motorcycle on the...
1. Honda did pioneer watercooling on a production motocrosser on the 1981 Cr250.

2. Actually, Honda did pioneer dics brakes on a production motorcycle on the 1969 Cb750, which was also the "first superbike" with a 4-cylinder transverse layout.

3.But they did pioneer the linkage rear suspension with the "pro-link".

7. Not even sure what this crap means...

10. Not sure if you've seen the bike leading the Outdoor points...
KTM had the first WC production dirt bike
This is not a street bike forum
Yamaha had the first single shock rear suspension
Weighting the engine compents towards the center..ie the Yamaha and the Husaberg
Not in production yet..and KTM has had them for a decade now.
Motodude
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Motodude 6/4/2011 5:01pm
6/4/2011 5:01pm
Make a great cafe racer.
Roscoe33
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Roscoe33 6/4/2011 5:14pm
6/4/2011 5:14pm
indy_maico wrote:
When I read about the reversed head and the rearward slanted cylinder, my first thought was that Honda had wasted no time copying Yamaha, just as...
When I read about the reversed head and the rearward slanted cylinder, my first thought was that Honda had wasted no time copying Yamaha, just as they always have.

But then I thought about their current MotoGP engine, which is a V4, so basically this engine is one of the rear cylinders sliced off the current block to make a 250 single.

I'll reserve my disgust for when and if they do come out with a similar architecture for the CRF's!
gotwings wrote:
You gotta be kidding about Honda copying Yamaha! What a fucking joke! Wash out your mouth with soap and do look into motorcycle evolution history. Honda...
You gotta be kidding about Honda copying Yamaha! What a fucking joke! Wash out your mouth with soap and do look into motorcycle evolution history. Honda has pioneered 9 out of 10 of the everyday features of motorcycles that we find so common today...
you must have been caught in a time warp to think Honda still does R&D for any off road racing, most new ideas come from KTM.

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