Did Lloyds of London bump up Chad's Insurance premium this year?

robkinuk
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Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 12:42pm
Wonder how much Chad Reed had to pay extra for his insurance premium/policy he took out against him winning his last outdoor title?, where he cashed in by taking the 2009 championship.
The way he is flying this season, reckon there will be some Lloyd's exec's with sweaty palms right now! on him cashing in again in 2011!Woohoo
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flarider
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6/1/2011 10:43am
I was told they'll no longer issue those types of policies
dv12.com
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6/1/2011 11:01am
flarider wrote:
I was told they'll no longer issue those types of policies
They actually do.
flarider
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6/1/2011 11:03am
Oh, cool
JOHN CHOATE
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6/1/2011 11:05am
Wasn't L of L in financial trouble within the past several years? I guess they were able to rebuild.

The Shop

Sondy132001
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6/1/2011 11:05am Edited Date/Time 6/1/2011 11:06am
flarider wrote:
I was told they'll no longer issue those types of policies
dv12.com wrote:
They actually do.
Do they really?? Who's got one you know because I was told the same thing, they wouldn't do those special policies anymore.

S
RR61114
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6/1/2011 11:17am
Know for a fact CHAD has one. He had one for SX as well.
bigborefan
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6/1/2011 12:23pm
The whole economy is nothing but a Ponzi scheme, giant roulette wheel anyway. Lloyds will take you money. The premiums might be steep, but they'll write it up. It's nothing but a bet anyway.
mxnick
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6/1/2011 4:50pm
These "insurance policies" have been in existence for a very long time, and continue to be used in many forms of motorsports. It is like a "hole in policy", only with a higher premium, since the odds are (likely) higher.

There is a guy based out of LA that is the primary agent for motorcycle racing and works directly with the Lloyds folks in London. I used him a few times when buying a bonus program for a Road Racer.

Most of the OEM's use his services, as it pays to "buy" a bonus program if you are working with a fixed (racing) budget and only have a certain amount of money to spend. The premium is one lump sum which can be spaced out during the racing series. It is basically gambling, and pretty much anyone can buy a policy. In my case, the policy cost more than the bonuses in year one, (they won) but in year two, I got my monies worth out of it, and then some.

You can design your own payouts and time frames as well. For example, if you want to put a higher bonus for a certain event (say Daytona or Anaheim), you just put that in the small print. You can buy insurance for race wins, podium's, top five finishes, or just series overall results. Whatever it is you want to insure against, the underwriters will look at it and give you a number. Its pretty cool, actually.
BobbyM
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6/1/2011 4:51pm Edited Date/Time 6/1/2011 4:53pm
flarider wrote:
I was told they'll no longer issue those types of policies
who told you that?


and it's ALL GAMBLING...sheesh guys. the stock market to vegas is ALL GAMBLING
APLMAN99
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6/2/2011 12:51am
Who would be taking out the policy for Reed's bonuses this time? Bel-Ray? Shift? Honda?

The entity that would be paying out (incurring the "loss") would be the one taking out the policy.
skidsteer16
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6/2/2011 1:01am Edited Date/Time 6/2/2011 1:01am
I remember Chad saying his SX policy for 2011 was based on him winning at least 3 races...don't believe he mentioned a championship clause, but I'd assume there was one.
dv12.com
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6/2/2011 1:17am
flarider wrote:
I was told they'll no longer issue those types of policies
dv12.com wrote:
They actually do.
Do they really?? Who's got one you know because I was told the same thing, they wouldn't do those special policies anymore.

S
I know one I helped getting so I know they still do them
ando
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6/2/2011 1:31am
APLMAN99 wrote:
Who would be taking out the policy for Reed's bonuses this time? Bel-Ray? Shift? Honda? The entity that would be paying out (incurring the "loss") would...
Who would be taking out the policy for Reed's bonuses this time? Bel-Ray? Shift? Honda?

The entity that would be paying out (incurring the "loss") would be the one taking out the policy.
I'm guessing there are two different scenarios here:

1. A contracted rider has a large championship bonus clause in his contract. The team owners/sponsors don't have enough cash to actually pay out the bonus, so they take out a policy covering them in the eventuality that they have to pay.

2. A guy like Reed takes a policy out for himself to increase his championship bonus.

Here is what Reed said about his "policy" after he won the MX title in '09...

“I’ve always done it, and most riders do it,” Reed says of taking out the insurance policy. “And if they don’t, they’re stupid -- or they just don’t have any confidence in themselves, or they aren’t in a position to win. But how much it costs is based on the riders, which is why some of the lower-ranked teams can offer huge bonuses, because it’s a big gamble, and for those guys to go win on those lower teams, it’s highly unlikely. For me, with my Lloyd’s thing, it’s difficult -- really difficult. With my track record of being consistent and being there week-in and week-out, I’m a high risk for them as a guy who can win races and championships. So there were a lot of terms and conditions in my policy that I didn’t necessarily agree with, or was pumped with, but I had no say in the matter. For example, if I’d have won this championship, but didn’t achieve three overall wins, I would’ve gotten no money at all. There was a stipulation that I had to win a minimum of three races, and a few other things in there as well. And I bought this policy when Ryan (Villopoto) was there, when I thought James (Stewart) was going to race, when I thought (Mike) Alessi was going to be there all year long, and it cost a good 300 grand to purchase it.”

Although he wouldn’t say how much it paid off now that he has fulfilled the obligations in the policy, Reed did say that it was the most he’s ever gotten for a championship, and “well over two (million dollars).”
APLMAN99
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6/2/2011 1:46am
#1 makes sense, and is what you would expect all of these ultimately to be.

#2, however, doesn't make sense since the "owner" of the policy would not be suffering a loss.

I'd imagine, purely speculating of course, that when a rider talks about taking out a policy on himself, he's probably really referring to a sponsor taking out the policy in lieu of a portion of their salary or other money. For instance, Rider A negotiates a $1M championship bonus and gives up $200K of salary from OEM B in order to cover the premiums.

Because OEM B would be liable for $1M in the event of it's rider winning the title, it has an insurable interest. Without that insurable interest or loss, it truly would simply be a bet.
Ashleymx
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6/2/2011 5:07am
I really don't get it. Obviously its gambling and obviously the insurance company is in it to make money not lose it so odds are the insurance company will win at the end of it all just like a casino. As a rider why risk it unless you the rider know more than they do or have more control over results than the insurance company is capable of predicting. The insurance company sure would need to follow the sport closely to estimate the risk, come up with a policy price and come out on top, then they would add a bit more just to make sure lol. One minor injury though and they win.
flarider
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6/2/2011 5:10am
No, Reed paid the premium out of his own pocket.
He placed a bet on himself
6/2/2011 8:20am
APLMAN99 wrote:
#1 makes sense, and is what you would expect all of these ultimately to be. #2, however, doesn't make sense since the "owner" of the policy...
#1 makes sense, and is what you would expect all of these ultimately to be.

#2, however, doesn't make sense since the "owner" of the policy would not be suffering a loss.

I'd imagine, purely speculating of course, that when a rider talks about taking out a policy on himself, he's probably really referring to a sponsor taking out the policy in lieu of a portion of their salary or other money. For instance, Rider A negotiates a $1M championship bonus and gives up $200K of salary from OEM B in order to cover the premiums.

Because OEM B would be liable for $1M in the event of it's rider winning the title, it has an insurable interest. Without that insurable interest or loss, it truly would simply be a bet.
If a rider takes a policy out on himself its with his own money. The OEMs take out the same type of policy for rider bonus's. When Mathes Talked about Dungey not getting payed he was full of crap, the policy payed him not Suzuki.

Chad took two policy's out for supercross, one for a certain amount of wins, nd the other for the title, he missed on both.
racer369
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6/2/2011 8:26am
dv12.com wrote:
They actually do.
Do they really?? Who's got one you know because I was told the same thing, they wouldn't do those special policies anymore.

S
dv12.com wrote:
I know one I helped getting so I know they still do them
Hope you took one out on poorcell!!! hahahahaah
6/2/2011 8:31am
Do they really?? Who's got one you know because I was told the same thing, they wouldn't do those special policies anymore.

S
dv12.com wrote:
I know one I helped getting so I know they still do them
racer369 wrote:
Hope you took one out on poorcell!!! hahahahaah
Thats cold blooded, funny but cold blooded.
flarider
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6/2/2011 8:37am Edited Date/Time 6/2/2011 8:37am
I just had a nice conversation with someone in the know and who could actually write these policies and it seems that they do indeed still write these types of policies and some that are even more creative.
Surprisingly, seems you can "bet" on most anything. A policy does not have to be for just wins or championships even, but to finish within a certain range, so mid-tier riders can even get a policy (or their team to cover bonuses) and the policies aren't always through Lloyd's.

Thinking about it, when I did the WWR $100,000 bonus, that was an insured policy, so I guess you can insure most anything as long as you can find someone to underwrite it


So, I was wrong in my earlier statement.
I was misinformed
ocscottie
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6/2/2011 9:02am
Dave, so are you saying i could make some bets on the amount of bullshit posts we get per week here at Vital? I could make a killing! Cool
rocrac
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6/2/2011 9:18am
ocscottie wrote:
Dave, so are you saying i could make some bets on the amount of bullshit posts we get per week here at Vital? I could make...
Dave, so are you saying i could make some bets on the amount of bullshit posts we get per week here at Vital? I could make a killing! Cool
Yeah except any underwriter worth a salt would take the over on that bet.
APLMAN99
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6/2/2011 9:46am
flarider wrote:
I just had a nice conversation with someone in the know and who could actually write these policies and it seems that they do indeed still...
I just had a nice conversation with someone in the know and who could actually write these policies and it seems that they do indeed still write these types of policies and some that are even more creative.
Surprisingly, seems you can "bet" on most anything. A policy does not have to be for just wins or championships even, but to finish within a certain range, so mid-tier riders can even get a policy (or their team to cover bonuses) and the policies aren't always through Lloyd's.

Thinking about it, when I did the WWR $100,000 bonus, that was an insured policy, so I guess you can insure most anything as long as you can find someone to underwrite it


So, I was wrong in my earlier statement.
I was misinformed
Dave, of course your promotion was an insurance policy or contract, because if the conditions had occured, you would have been liable, or suffered a "loss". That's the key point to insurance. You have to suffer loss for it to pay.

Think of it this way, do you buy an insurance contract that pays you a large lump sum if your house doesn't burn down or your car isn't in an accident? Of course not, because you wouldn't be suffering a loss.

Reed might have placed a bet on his performance, but that's not an insurance contract. Any of his sponsors could have taken out a contract, however, if they had promised to pay him bonuses based on his performance. When he met the proper goals, the sponsors would be liable, or suffer a loss.
flarider
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6/2/2011 10:26am
Your response is confusing to me, but in simple terms, Chad Reed did take out (and still has) an insurance policy on himself that is performance based.
If he meets the requirements of the policy, like winning the outdoor championship, the insurance policy pays him
mxknowitall
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6/2/2011 10:34am
flarider wrote:
I just had a nice conversation with someone in the know and who could actually write these policies and it seems that they do indeed still...
I just had a nice conversation with someone in the know and who could actually write these policies and it seems that they do indeed still write these types of policies and some that are even more creative.
Surprisingly, seems you can "bet" on most anything. A policy does not have to be for just wins or championships even, but to finish within a certain range, so mid-tier riders can even get a policy (or their team to cover bonuses) and the policies aren't always through Lloyd's.

Thinking about it, when I did the WWR $100,000 bonus, that was an insured policy, so I guess you can insure most anything as long as you can find someone to underwrite it


So, I was wrong in my earlier statement.
I was misinformed
APLMAN99 wrote:
Dave, of course your promotion was an insurance policy or contract, because if the conditions had occured, you would have been liable, or suffered a "loss"...
Dave, of course your promotion was an insurance policy or contract, because if the conditions had occured, you would have been liable, or suffered a "loss". That's the key point to insurance. You have to suffer loss for it to pay.

Think of it this way, do you buy an insurance contract that pays you a large lump sum if your house doesn't burn down or your car isn't in an accident? Of course not, because you wouldn't be suffering a loss.

Reed might have placed a bet on his performance, but that's not an insurance contract. Any of his sponsors could have taken out a contract, however, if they had promised to pay him bonuses based on his performance. When he met the proper goals, the sponsors would be liable, or suffer a loss.
I guess you're trying to say Reed was speculating??? Making a gamble that he'll win the title.
APLMAN99
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6/2/2011 10:38am
flarider wrote:
Your response is confusing to me, but in simple terms, Chad Reed did take out (and still has) an insurance policy on himself that is performance...
Your response is confusing to me, but in simple terms, Chad Reed did take out (and still has) an insurance policy on himself that is performance based.
If he meets the requirements of the policy, like winning the outdoor championship, the insurance policy pays him
If Chad were to win the title, what loss would he suffer that would trigger an insurance payment?

Here's a pretty good explanation of how insurance works:

http://www.solarnavigator.net/venture_capital/insurance.htm

Here's a site that talks about various sports policies. If you browse their products on the left, the contingency policies are apparent, but they are for sponsors/ employers, not the participants themselves.

http://www.hccsu.com/products/sports/conbonus.htm
flarider
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6/2/2011 10:42am
Well, don't know what to tell you, riders take policies on themselves.
Maybe as their own corporation on themselves personally, but they do.
Was told this morning by someone who would and does know. (don't ask)
APLMAN99
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6/2/2011 10:44am
flarider wrote:
I just had a nice conversation with someone in the know and who could actually write these policies and it seems that they do indeed still...
I just had a nice conversation with someone in the know and who could actually write these policies and it seems that they do indeed still write these types of policies and some that are even more creative.
Surprisingly, seems you can "bet" on most anything. A policy does not have to be for just wins or championships even, but to finish within a certain range, so mid-tier riders can even get a policy (or their team to cover bonuses) and the policies aren't always through Lloyd's.

Thinking about it, when I did the WWR $100,000 bonus, that was an insured policy, so I guess you can insure most anything as long as you can find someone to underwrite it


So, I was wrong in my earlier statement.
I was misinformed
APLMAN99 wrote:
Dave, of course your promotion was an insurance policy or contract, because if the conditions had occured, you would have been liable, or suffered a "loss"...
Dave, of course your promotion was an insurance policy or contract, because if the conditions had occured, you would have been liable, or suffered a "loss". That's the key point to insurance. You have to suffer loss for it to pay.

Think of it this way, do you buy an insurance contract that pays you a large lump sum if your house doesn't burn down or your car isn't in an accident? Of course not, because you wouldn't be suffering a loss.

Reed might have placed a bet on his performance, but that's not an insurance contract. Any of his sponsors could have taken out a contract, however, if they had promised to pay him bonuses based on his performance. When he met the proper goals, the sponsors would be liable, or suffer a loss.
I guess you're trying to say Reed was speculating??? Making a gamble that he'll win the title.
Yes, he might have placed some very sophisticated bets on himself, but whatever he has on himself it isn't an insurance policy.

He could certainly have taken out a policy that paid if he didn't win a title, assuming that he had a bonus promised to him for winning. In that case, not winning the title would have resulted in a "loss". The policy would probably have to be substantially less than the bonus would have been, however.
APLMAN99
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6/2/2011 10:45am
flarider wrote:
Well, don't know what to tell you, riders take policies on themselves. Maybe as their own corporation on themselves personally, but they do. Was told this...
Well, don't know what to tell you, riders take policies on themselves.
Maybe as their own corporation on themselves personally, but they do.
Was told this morning by someone who would and does know. (don't ask)
What loss would their own corporation suffer from them winning?
SoCalMX70
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6/2/2011 10:46am
flarider wrote:
Your response is confusing to me, but in simple terms, Chad Reed did take out (and still has) an insurance policy on himself that is performance...
Your response is confusing to me, but in simple terms, Chad Reed did take out (and still has) an insurance policy on himself that is performance based.
If he meets the requirements of the policy, like winning the outdoor championship, the insurance policy pays him
APLMAN99 wrote:
If Chad were to win the title, what loss would he suffer that would trigger an insurance payment? Here's a pretty good explanation of how insurance...
If Chad were to win the title, what loss would he suffer that would trigger an insurance payment?

Here's a pretty good explanation of how insurance works:

http://www.solarnavigator.net/venture_capital/insurance.htm

Here's a site that talks about various sports policies. If you browse their products on the left, the contingency policies are apparent, but they are for sponsors/ employers, not the participants themselves.

http://www.hccsu.com/products/sports/conbonus.htm
Well, first off, Lloyd's isn't an insurance company. Secondly, they are the "exception" in the insurance market. Their practices are much different than that of a traditional insurance company.

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