Yamaha 450 and Motocross

HighCam
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Moreland, ID, USA
Edited Date/Time 1/26/2012 2:42pm
Maybe Pourcel didn't do as well as I thought he would have done today at the first Outdoor race of 2011, but it seemed his result today was more from lack of fitness and time on the bike in race conditions and not the ability of the Yamaha 450. It did seem like Hahn rode well in moto 1 and if you look at today's MX-1 qualifying race in Brazil Philippaerts and Frossard finished 1st and 2nd.

My point is, what does this say for James Stewart's team not being able to get their Yamaha 450 ready or not getting the bike working correctly for the 2011 Motocross series? I think it makes them look pretty bad. It's not the Yamaha that doesn't work well, it's a lack of ability by the team to make the motorcycle work.

Yes, I'm sure it's difficult to make a motorcycle work perfect for a rider as fast as James Stewart, but they couldn't even get the bike to work for Kyle Regal and he isn't as fast as Stewart.
Pourcel choose the Yamaha 450 over other brands he tested, so he has confidence in the motorcycle and he looked smooth and fast until his fitness came into play at the Hangtown National. Pourcel will be faster and in better shape and get much better results as the series goes on.

I feel the results of the other riders that compete on the new Yamaha 450 makes Stewart's team look incompetent.
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Mod Killer
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5/22/2011 3:42am
very fair assesment. by extention of your logic i can only draw one conclusion....that not being able to get his bikes setup in time is not the real reason for his absense. which to be honest, is a conclusion we all pretty much already had drawn anyways right?

JSE's press releases have about as much credibility as a JLaw comeback attempt these days.
jonesaustin
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Austin, TX, USA
5/22/2011 5:25am
this will sound crazy to some, but I think it is the bike and it's to do with ergonomics and aesthetics. the bike is wide at the gas tank, it doesn't feel light, and it isn't light. i applaud yamaha for making headway with new technology, but the 450 class is already heavy enough. you need a bike that instills confidence in the rider but part of that is - it needs to look trick. and by trick i mean thin, flat across the top. agile, etc. this bike does not seem that way whatsoever and psychologically i honestly feel it affects the rider, perhaps without them knowing even. it's just not a sexy bike. the side profile is horrid.

just my observation but who knows.
zippy895
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5/22/2011 5:44am
listen people,when you are as skilled and polished as someone like stewart or any of the top pros, they can ride a rupp and make it do well.
enough of the 'its the bike thing already' its fucken 2011!
the bikes are light years away from being unridable .
and stop judging the fucken production bike's with the top pro bikes.
get a clue already.
5/22/2011 5:57am Edited Date/Time 5/22/2011 5:58am
zippy895 wrote:
listen people,when you are as skilled and polished as someone like stewart or any of the top pros, they can ride a rupp and make it...
listen people,when you are as skilled and polished as someone like stewart or any of the top pros, they can ride a rupp and make it do well.
enough of the 'its the bike thing already' its fucken 2011!
the bikes are light years away from being unridable .
and stop judging the fucken production bike's with the top pro bikes.
get a clue already.
So when Dungey says we are making small changes to the bike as the day goes on, does that mean that he doesn't need it set up right and they are just doing it for shits and giggles?

You nor I have any idea what a bike feels like going as fast as those guys so we can't judge how comfortable or uncomfortable they are going those speeds on a bike that isn't set up right. Having said that, it probably wasn't just the bike with Stewart but I don't know.

The Shop

zippy895
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5/22/2011 6:04am
zippy895 wrote:
listen people,when you are as skilled and polished as someone like stewart or any of the top pros, they can ride a rupp and make it...
listen people,when you are as skilled and polished as someone like stewart or any of the top pros, they can ride a rupp and make it do well.
enough of the 'its the bike thing already' its fucken 2011!
the bikes are light years away from being unridable .
and stop judging the fucken production bike's with the top pro bikes.
get a clue already.
So when Dungey says we are making small changes to the bike as the day goes on, does that mean that he doesn't need it set...
So when Dungey says we are making small changes to the bike as the day goes on, does that mean that he doesn't need it set up right and they are just doing it for shits and giggles?

You nor I have any idea what a bike feels like going as fast as those guys so we can't judge how comfortable or uncomfortable they are going those speeds on a bike that isn't set up right. Having said that, it probably wasn't just the bike with Stewart but I don't know.
dont confuse micro adjustments w/ complete bike
Shawn142
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Burleson, TX, USA
5/22/2011 6:11am
Stewart ain't riding no stock bike folks.. yes in stock for the YZF450 is heavy, but I'd put a lot of money on his being at or very near the weight limit. James had standard outdoor setting available to him just like the other teams that are factory supported by Yamaha. He and Regal had at least a base to start from just like everyone else. He was as ready as anyone else, either he didn't have the funds without dipping into his own pocket or he felt he couldn't win. And you know what, that's fine. But I'm real tired of the BS PR coming out of that camp.. between how they handled Brooks, this ordeal, and the way James chooses to explain himself its just awkward and unprofessional.
zippy895
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5/22/2011 6:15am
Shawn142 wrote:
Stewart ain't riding no stock bike folks.. yes in stock for the YZF450 is heavy, but I'd put a lot of money on his being at...
Stewart ain't riding no stock bike folks.. yes in stock for the YZF450 is heavy, but I'd put a lot of money on his being at or very near the weight limit. James had standard outdoor setting available to him just like the other teams that are factory supported by Yamaha. He and Regal had at least a base to start from just like everyone else. He was as ready as anyone else, either he didn't have the funds without dipping into his own pocket or he felt he couldn't win. And you know what, that's fine. But I'm real tired of the BS PR coming out of that camp.. between how they handled Brooks, this ordeal, and the way James chooses to explain himself its just awkward and unprofessional.
that post sums it up .
now, if others on here can only comprehend it .
THANK YOU
jonesaustin
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5/22/2011 6:18am Edited Date/Time 5/22/2011 6:21am
i still think it's something to do with how the rider resonates with the design of the machine. i think the KX450 also has this overweight vibe going, same as the Yamaha. and guess what - reed didn't like the bike. it wasn't set up, it was the bike.

read - the bike itself is outstanding. the magazines praised the Kawasaki 450 for the past 2 years. but for Reed the Suzuki just had that appeal. it seemed thinner, more agile, more, dare i say, two-stroke like...and as such he performed much better on it. it made him want to race it, knife in, make changes mid air, etc.

it's a mental game and feeling your bike has that appeal is paramount to how a rider performs. i promise you.

the Yamaha needs to be redesigned completely. the 250 however looks rad.
5/22/2011 6:21am Edited Date/Time 5/22/2011 6:23am
Shawn142 wrote:
Stewart ain't riding no stock bike folks.. yes in stock for the YZF450 is heavy, but I'd put a lot of money on his being at...
Stewart ain't riding no stock bike folks.. yes in stock for the YZF450 is heavy, but I'd put a lot of money on his being at or very near the weight limit. James had standard outdoor setting available to him just like the other teams that are factory supported by Yamaha. He and Regal had at least a base to start from just like everyone else. He was as ready as anyone else, either he didn't have the funds without dipping into his own pocket or he felt he couldn't win. And you know what, that's fine. But I'm real tired of the BS PR coming out of that camp.. between how they handled Brooks, this ordeal, and the way James chooses to explain himself its just awkward and unprofessional.
That's true but there are certain things which, even for a factory team, are very difficult to change. The ergonomics of the bike are the way they are. It's a wide bike and that's the end of it. But overall I agree, although I don't think it's the greatest bike out there, I don't really believe it's holding anyone back either. If Pourcel had no confidence in the Yamaha then I don't believe he would've signed up to ride one, regardless of money. No one held a gun to his head.

As for James, unless there really is some far out wacky reason why he didn't ride the Nationals (which I very much doubt), I think it's safe to assume he just wanted to take the summer off. No problem with that, I just wish he'd come out and admit it.
mxb2
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5/22/2011 6:25am
Bike set up, lmfao!
newmann
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5/22/2011 6:25am
Does Stewart even know where the air filter is on his bike? Where the oil goes? How much slack a chain needs? Seriously.
DPW
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Dallas, TX, USA
5/22/2011 6:35am
Shawn142 wrote:
Stewart ain't riding no stock bike folks.. yes in stock for the YZF450 is heavy, but I'd put a lot of money on his being at...
Stewart ain't riding no stock bike folks.. yes in stock for the YZF450 is heavy, but I'd put a lot of money on his being at or very near the weight limit. James had standard outdoor setting available to him just like the other teams that are factory supported by Yamaha. He and Regal had at least a base to start from just like everyone else. He was as ready as anyone else, either he didn't have the funds without dipping into his own pocket or he felt he couldn't win. And you know what, that's fine. But I'm real tired of the BS PR coming out of that camp.. between how they handled Brooks, this ordeal, and the way James chooses to explain himself its just awkward and unprofessional.
zippy895 wrote:
that post sums it up .
now, if others on here can only comprehend it .
THANK YOU
agree with Shawn142.....the YZ450 '10 and '11 are pretty much same bike too so I'm sure they could open the "spiral ring notebook" and look up outdoor settings from last year if they wanted.

Ask DV how to setup the bike
newmann
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5/22/2011 6:39am
2010? Unadilla settings.....Laughing
FreshTopEnd
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5/22/2011 6:49am
It was interesting to listen to Matthe's podcasts with Dave Arnold last year sometime (on ITunes, and awesome MX history stories, not to mention that DA is pretty hard to stop).

He thought it was remarkable that Yamaha made such a radical changes in an era where there aren't works bikes to work out the kinks by being able to change frames, mounts etc. on an immediate basis given how even small changes can have a big impacts.

Pretty interesting listen on bike development. He wasn't critical of Yamaha. He even mentioned that sometimes a better design requires taking a step back toward a foundation that may not work as well immediately as the old design better developed, and just noting that it likely will take awhile to work out the changes to make it work well in an era where that can't be worked out as quickly.
5/22/2011 8:04am Edited Date/Time 5/22/2011 8:10am
Monster Energy Rinaldi Yamaha doesn't seem to have bike set up problems. 3 different size riders with 3 totally different styles. Boissiere, Frossard and Phillippaerts seem to be getting good finishes (and wins) against the rest of the GP regulars. De Dycker even won a GP on one last year. Just goes to show that the bike CAN be set up good. You just have to know what you're doing. He seems to have forgot that this isn't 2008. The tracks don't get groomed in between moto's anymore and they do get rougher than most can imagine, including his home track. The bike set up must reflect that.
TerryB
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5/22/2011 8:13am
Mod Killer wrote:
very fair assesment. by extention of your logic i can only draw one conclusion....that not being able to get his bikes setup in time is not...
very fair assesment. by extention of your logic i can only draw one conclusion....that not being able to get his bikes setup in time is not the real reason for his absense. which to be honest, is a conclusion we all pretty much already had drawn anyways right?

JSE's press releases have about as much credibility as a JLaw comeback attempt these days.
This^^^
gsxrcr28
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5/22/2011 8:26am
It might not be the bike, but he sure hasn't looked like the Bubba we are use to seeing.

I think there is a lot of reasons he is not racing Outdoors.
Lack of support from Yamaha
Would rather stay home
Not crazy about the bike
Tired of crashing
Tired of travel
Too hot
Too much work
Makes the same or less money due to team expenses
And more...
All JMO.
Shawn142
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5/22/2011 9:09am
gsxrcr28 wrote:
It might not be the bike, but he sure hasn't looked like the Bubba we are use to seeing. I think there is a lot of...
It might not be the bike, but he sure hasn't looked like the Bubba we are use to seeing.

I think there is a lot of reasons he is not racing Outdoors.
Lack of support from Yamaha
Would rather stay home
Not crazy about the bike
Tired of crashing
Tired of travel
Too hot
Too much work
Makes the same or less money due to team expenses
And more...
All JMO.
And you know to me all that shit is fine. I didn't cry myself to sleep when MC didnt race outdoors for most of those same reasons. But I'm annoyed by James' PR approach to the whole deal. After Brooks gets sent home to spend time with his family (which he's still doing according to James) he said big changes are coming, we'll do the first 4, blah blah. As the season approached and his year in SX was tanking he was non-committal, very wishy washy. Then he shows up testing, tells Regal to test, and things look like they might be on. Then bam, website (blog??) release poorly written that says yea, I ain't ready so I'm going to sit. This is a multi-million dollar team and athlete, and he handled it like he's riding out of the back of a pick-up and can't get his stock shit dialed so he threw up a quick word about it on his website. Wow...
5/22/2011 9:10am
zippy895 wrote:
listen people,when you are as skilled and polished as someone like stewart or any of the top pros, they can ride a rupp and make it...
listen people,when you are as skilled and polished as someone like stewart or any of the top pros, they can ride a rupp and make it do well.
enough of the 'its the bike thing already' its fucken 2011!
the bikes are light years away from being unridable .
and stop judging the fucken production bike's with the top pro bikes.
get a clue already.
So when Dungey says we are making small changes to the bike as the day goes on, does that mean that he doesn't need it set...
So when Dungey says we are making small changes to the bike as the day goes on, does that mean that he doesn't need it set up right and they are just doing it for shits and giggles?

You nor I have any idea what a bike feels like going as fast as those guys so we can't judge how comfortable or uncomfortable they are going those speeds on a bike that isn't set up right. Having said that, it probably wasn't just the bike with Stewart but I don't know.
zippy895 wrote:
dont confuse micro adjustments w/ complete bike
Don't confuse a team that has had arguably the best set up bike for years with a team that doesn't race outdoors.
JCRF217
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Fort Dodge, IA, USA
5/22/2011 10:09am
gsxrcr28 wrote:
It might not be the bike, but he sure hasn't looked like the Bubba we are use to seeing. I think there is a lot of...
It might not be the bike, but he sure hasn't looked like the Bubba we are use to seeing.

I think there is a lot of reasons he is not racing Outdoors.
Lack of support from Yamaha
Would rather stay home
Not crazy about the bike
Tired of crashing
Tired of travel
Too hot
Too much work
Makes the same or less money due to team expenses
And more...
All JMO.
you could add to that
afraid of getting showed up by reed, dungey, or RV (and i really don't like dungey)
he dosen't like to work (outdoors takes more work than a 15 min race indoors)
he says he does things for the fans, but that is why he only races four months a year
they yamaha sucks balls


Since he has been on yamaha (barring the 2009 sx season) his career has taken a huge shit. when he was on kawi he raced all the series and he won races and championships, and had no excuses
Sherwood
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5/22/2011 10:10am
HighCam wrote:
Maybe Pourcel didn't do as well as I thought he would have done today at the first Outdoor race of 2011, but it seemed his result...
Maybe Pourcel didn't do as well as I thought he would have done today at the first Outdoor race of 2011, but it seemed his result today was more from lack of fitness and time on the bike in race conditions and not the ability of the Yamaha 450. It did seem like Hahn rode well in moto 1 and if you look at today's MX-1 qualifying race in Brazil Philippaerts and Frossard finished 1st and 2nd.

My point is, what does this say for James Stewart's team not being able to get their Yamaha 450 ready or not getting the bike working correctly for the 2011 Motocross series? I think it makes them look pretty bad. It's not the Yamaha that doesn't work well, it's a lack of ability by the team to make the motorcycle work.

Yes, I'm sure it's difficult to make a motorcycle work perfect for a rider as fast as James Stewart, but they couldn't even get the bike to work for Kyle Regal and he isn't as fast as Stewart.
Pourcel choose the Yamaha 450 over other brands he tested, so he has confidence in the motorcycle and he looked smooth and fast until his fitness came into play at the Hangtown National. Pourcel will be faster and in better shape and get much better results as the series goes on.

I feel the results of the other riders that compete on the new Yamaha 450 makes Stewart's team look incompetent.
You still hate all Red Bull athletes?
gsxrcr28
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5/22/2011 10:13am
gsxrcr28 wrote:
It might not be the bike, but he sure hasn't looked like the Bubba we are use to seeing. I think there is a lot of...
It might not be the bike, but he sure hasn't looked like the Bubba we are use to seeing.

I think there is a lot of reasons he is not racing Outdoors.
Lack of support from Yamaha
Would rather stay home
Not crazy about the bike
Tired of crashing
Tired of travel
Too hot
Too much work
Makes the same or less money due to team expenses
And more...
All JMO.
Shawn142 wrote:
And you know to me all that shit is fine. I didn't cry myself to sleep when MC didnt race outdoors for most of those same...
And you know to me all that shit is fine. I didn't cry myself to sleep when MC didnt race outdoors for most of those same reasons. But I'm annoyed by James' PR approach to the whole deal. After Brooks gets sent home to spend time with his family (which he's still doing according to James) he said big changes are coming, we'll do the first 4, blah blah. As the season approached and his year in SX was tanking he was non-committal, very wishy washy. Then he shows up testing, tells Regal to test, and things look like they might be on. Then bam, website (blog??) release poorly written that says yea, I ain't ready so I'm going to sit. This is a multi-million dollar team and athlete, and he handled it like he's riding out of the back of a pick-up and can't get his stock shit dialed so he threw up a quick word about it on his website. Wow...
Yeah the PR seems a little sketchy, but I try to give these guys the benefit of the doubt. His excuse was they struggled in SX and are not ready. Well the struggled part was obvious, and as far as the not ready part maybe Yamaha was leading him to believe they would help with funding and personnel and changed their mind. Sure he could come out and say that but that would be throwing Yamaha under the bus for leading him on. As far as Brooks obviously it seems like him, the team or both did not want Larry around. He could come out and say that or trash Larry to the fans but he might think that would be worse than not saying anything. I always thought Larry seemed like a pretty cool guy but I have no idea what he is like to work with.
I don't have any facts, and like Davey Coombs said on DMXS he might not be riding Outdoors due to lingering injuries, or maybe his hand cant handle the Outdoors and he doesn't want to admit it. Its all speculation and I cant be critical of any of them without facts.


I'm still a fan just like I was still a fan of Chad, Kdub and MC when they skipped the Outdoors for whatever reasons they had.
5/22/2011 10:16am
gsxrcr28 wrote:
It might not be the bike, but he sure hasn't looked like the Bubba we are use to seeing. I think there is a lot of...
It might not be the bike, but he sure hasn't looked like the Bubba we are use to seeing.

I think there is a lot of reasons he is not racing Outdoors.
Lack of support from Yamaha
Would rather stay home
Not crazy about the bike
Tired of crashing
Tired of travel
Too hot
Too much work
Makes the same or less money due to team expenses
And more...
All JMO.
Shawn142 wrote:
And you know to me all that shit is fine. I didn't cry myself to sleep when MC didnt race outdoors for most of those same...
And you know to me all that shit is fine. I didn't cry myself to sleep when MC didnt race outdoors for most of those same reasons. But I'm annoyed by James' PR approach to the whole deal. After Brooks gets sent home to spend time with his family (which he's still doing according to James) he said big changes are coming, we'll do the first 4, blah blah. As the season approached and his year in SX was tanking he was non-committal, very wishy washy. Then he shows up testing, tells Regal to test, and things look like they might be on. Then bam, website (blog??) release poorly written that says yea, I ain't ready so I'm going to sit. This is a multi-million dollar team and athlete, and he handled it like he's riding out of the back of a pick-up and can't get his stock shit dialed so he threw up a quick word about it on his website. Wow...
gsxrcr28 wrote:
Yeah the PR seems a little sketchy, but I try to give these guys the benefit of the doubt. His excuse was they struggled in SX...
Yeah the PR seems a little sketchy, but I try to give these guys the benefit of the doubt. His excuse was they struggled in SX and are not ready. Well the struggled part was obvious, and as far as the not ready part maybe Yamaha was leading him to believe they would help with funding and personnel and changed their mind. Sure he could come out and say that but that would be throwing Yamaha under the bus for leading him on. As far as Brooks obviously it seems like him, the team or both did not want Larry around. He could come out and say that or trash Larry to the fans but he might think that would be worse than not saying anything. I always thought Larry seemed like a pretty cool guy but I have no idea what he is like to work with.
I don't have any facts, and like Davey Coombs said on DMXS he might not be riding Outdoors due to lingering injuries, or maybe his hand cant handle the Outdoors and he doesn't want to admit it. Its all speculation and I cant be critical of any of them without facts.


I'm still a fan just like I was still a fan of Chad, Kdub and MC when they skipped the Outdoors for whatever reasons they had.
Oh come on. He is lazy and he is scared to race RV, RD, and CR cuz they own him and always have. Oh wait...not true.
gsxrcr28
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5/22/2011 11:40am
Shawn142 wrote:
And you know to me all that shit is fine. I didn't cry myself to sleep when MC didnt race outdoors for most of those same...
And you know to me all that shit is fine. I didn't cry myself to sleep when MC didnt race outdoors for most of those same reasons. But I'm annoyed by James' PR approach to the whole deal. After Brooks gets sent home to spend time with his family (which he's still doing according to James) he said big changes are coming, we'll do the first 4, blah blah. As the season approached and his year in SX was tanking he was non-committal, very wishy washy. Then he shows up testing, tells Regal to test, and things look like they might be on. Then bam, website (blog??) release poorly written that says yea, I ain't ready so I'm going to sit. This is a multi-million dollar team and athlete, and he handled it like he's riding out of the back of a pick-up and can't get his stock shit dialed so he threw up a quick word about it on his website. Wow...
gsxrcr28 wrote:
Yeah the PR seems a little sketchy, but I try to give these guys the benefit of the doubt. His excuse was they struggled in SX...
Yeah the PR seems a little sketchy, but I try to give these guys the benefit of the doubt. His excuse was they struggled in SX and are not ready. Well the struggled part was obvious, and as far as the not ready part maybe Yamaha was leading him to believe they would help with funding and personnel and changed their mind. Sure he could come out and say that but that would be throwing Yamaha under the bus for leading him on. As far as Brooks obviously it seems like him, the team or both did not want Larry around. He could come out and say that or trash Larry to the fans but he might think that would be worse than not saying anything. I always thought Larry seemed like a pretty cool guy but I have no idea what he is like to work with.
I don't have any facts, and like Davey Coombs said on DMXS he might not be riding Outdoors due to lingering injuries, or maybe his hand cant handle the Outdoors and he doesn't want to admit it. Its all speculation and I cant be critical of any of them without facts.


I'm still a fan just like I was still a fan of Chad, Kdub and MC when they skipped the Outdoors for whatever reasons they had.
Oh come on. He is lazy and he is scared to race RV, RD, and CR cuz they own him and always have. Oh wait...not true.
Sure anything is possible, but for anyone to say they know for sure what "not ready" means without being associated with the team would be extremely narrow minded.
mrquick
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5/22/2011 2:13pm
Can we PLEASE stop talking about him? Talk about riders/racers that are doing the nationals....thats whats happening now.
RaceFace
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5/22/2011 2:43pm
newmann wrote:
Does Stewart even know where the air filter is on his bike? Where the oil goes? How much slack a chain needs? Seriously.
By his own admission he hasn't even noticed when they switch the footpegs on him. He claimed he asked them what's up with the new footpegs and the mechanic told him they've been in place for 4 races.
TerryB
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5/22/2011 2:52pm
Question for the Vital Masses: So, how do you like your ground-breaking, backwards motor YZ450? If you could do it all over again, would you buy something different?
spacecat
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5/22/2011 3:20pm
TerryB wrote:
Question for the Vital Masses: So, how do you like your ground-breaking, backwards motor YZ450? If you could do it all over again, would you buy...
Question for the Vital Masses: So, how do you like your ground-breaking, backwards motor YZ450? If you could do it all over again, would you buy something different?
I like my 2011 YZ450f. Im just an average rider who values durability more then pro race wins. 70 hours and the valves are still in spec. Its just a hobby for me. The bikes a winner.
Mod Killer
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5/22/2011 4:31pm
the bikes were ready. we can put that excuse to bed.
Davey762
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5/22/2011 4:31pm
I like my 2010 yz450f, I'm coming off an 07 crf450r.

I rode my friends 09 rmz450 and 09 kx450 and liked the yz better. Also rode my friends 2010 crf450 and liked the YZ better as well.

But the 09+ hondas have come set up horrible out of the box. Reed even said he thought it was the worst production bike but now is ruling on a factory one... I guess it just took time for the teams to figure out the bike.

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