Is this socialism?

The conservative excuse when someone shoots up a Walmart?  Conservatives don’t make any excuses, why would they? It’s not “conservatives” fault it happened, and besides, there is no excuse that could justify something like that anyway……Conservatives do however, place the blame on the individual, and hold that individual accountable.  
 

But I won’t support giving up any more of our freedom in the name of a bigger, more powerful government, either.  

So, your questions were rhetorical then?

There is no good answer to that question, Early. It is basically one of these three, to varying degrees:

-Do as we do now; allow people free reign in the streets and leave them alone.
-Do as the mayor suggests and forcibly treat people, sometimes against their will, and using taxpayer money.
-Do as Hitler did and exterminate them. 

I don't like any of the above options, but it seems to me the most humane is to offer treatment to those who need it. Nobody should be forced or coerced into institutions, however. 

I agree there's no perfect answer. In my experience you can't even ride mass transportation in downtown SLC without fearing for your safety. Especially in off-commute times of the day. The Trax light rail system is infested with meth-heads. I'm in NYC pretty often and it's much worse in SLC. At what point does the right to safety outweigh another's right to freedom? 

The justification they used to defund mental health was to save money.  The real reason they did it was to create a lucrative market for pharma's new psychiatric drugs, most of them purchased with the same tax money they saved by shutting down the hospitals.  If you really want to know the truth, I suggest you read this book.

Anatomy of an Epidemic: Magic Bullets, Psychiatric Drugs, and the Astonishing Rise of Mental Illness in America

Man, that looks like a very interesting read. Thank you, I’m going to check that out. I’ve always believed that big pharma was a racket.

Usually these people have Medicaid. So everybody pays for it.

As usual, it sounds like a bunch of bullshit just to make people feel good. Let's say they take these people to go get psychiatric treatment if they aren't able to meet their own basic needs. There aren't any laws against being disheveled. You will be evaluated by a psychiatric professional and will get committed to the psych unit if you are suicidal or homicidal. If you are not a danger to yourself or others, then you will be released. We do it all the time, there aren't any laws against being homeless or strange. Somebody might volunteer to be admitted if they are just trying to get a leg up, but they can leave whenever they want. It's not like we can force these people to go get jobs, and get off the street.

I'm not sure Reagan "defunded" it. Didn't the ACLU sue on behalf of a mentally ill that they could not be put In  institutions against their will and win?

TM

Well if the googler says it's so, who am I to question it?

TM

The condition of state mental health facilities today has little or nothing to do with the repeal of a law 40 years ago that was in existence for 1 year and probably not even fully implemented by the time it was repealed. The reduction of patient populations started in the 70's and has more to do with civil liberty infringement.

I believe you're right. Being coocoo is not a crime and you can't just put someone in an institution against their will because of it. So it largely stopped. But who am I to argue with the googler?

TM

Guess I forgot to hit the quote button, see previous post.

TM

"What's the difference between releasing someone from the psyche ward vs jail?"

The difference is, you went to jail for committing a crime "by choice" and we need to see that you changed. The people in the coocoo house likely have not actually committed a crime yet. They typically were sent because they were a danger to themself or someone else.

TM

What if you didn’t ask so many questions and make more statements? 
 

One can dream.

Well, they kicked me out at 8 p.m. on a Wednesday night. No money, no check card, no drivers license. Only thing they gave me was a local bus pass good for 24 hours. 

Wasn’t local, no friends, family willing to help, or anything else. 

Guy that was released the same time as me is a local, thought I’d shadow and see what happened. Meth happened, before you know it he’s shooting up meth. Didn’t take me long to figure out I needed to get away from that scene. 

IMHO, the “System” is designed to keep you involved in the jail for profit system, forever, once you get in any kind of trouble. Most of those guys, guards included, all know each other. 
 

50% of the people I met, belonged there, 30% had serious mental health issues. I’m talking they would literally have arguments with themselves. My cellie wore earplugs all the time. One day I mentioned him wearing them to keep the noise down. He says, “Yeah, I’m trying to keep the voices in my head down”. One morning I woke up to him banging his head on the wall, begging for “them” to leave him alone. The other 20% were good people, just got caught up in some shit and didn’t really belong there. 
 

I’ve avoided posting anything really, because you Google, Rodeo4K, and VitalMX lights up. 
 

Played cards with this guy almost daily, was surprised to find out why he was there:

https://www.kiro7.com/news/trending/alleged-stalker-charged-with-killin…
 

This guy, Benjamin Delgadillo was facing the needle and didn’t care. Watched him assault another inmate and “joke” about sexually assaulting another, but I don’t suspect he

was joking:

https://amp.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article250148394.html

You know, it sucks. 
 

Most folks speak about it, like they know what it’s like. I kinda wanted to throw my two cents in, give some real life experience. 
 

Am I a drug addict? No. Am I a felon? No. Career criminal? No. Thief? No. My point is that we are all one bad decision away from jail. I was in there on a misdemeanor, not some high crime. 
 

Did I break the law? Yes. Did I deserve to be crushed and lose everything? No, I’ve got a hard time believing that. 
 

Although, it did make me stop and take inventory of my life. It would be easier, right now included, to keep going down the road. 
 

Nobody would consider me a lefty, liberal, Antifa, or BLM supporting guy. But after my experience, they’ve got a point. 
 

What did the police do with the contents of my truck? Where did my camera bag go? $4500 just there alone. All told I’m out about $10,000 worth of stuff that was in the cab of my truck. 

Early you are confusing Socialism with Social Programs.

 Social programs are suspect when they no longer benefit the productive members of society while providing limited humane treatment to those unable to care for themselves. 

When social programs actually worsen dependence or increase the need for dependence, on the productive members of society they are harmful.

It's not hard to see how government through social assistance and changing laws or enforcement of such can create an atmosphere of homelessness, crime, drug abuse, alcoholism, unemployment , ruin families and communities.

You can take the nicest city in the world, put me in charge with the ability to change laws, legalize drugs, prostitution, street crimes no bail , start drug shooting centers, homeless areas, Claim everyone has a right to do whatever they want, give stipends to lgbtq ,decriminalize crime, start handing out stipends left and right, sprinkling in some funds for radical groups Antifa like groups, BLM , defund the police, weed store on every corner,  discourage any economic growth whenever you can, and it'll be a shithole in 2 years guaranteed.

Basically just follow Democrat policies in their cities. 

It is not rocket science.

They saw how how much it cost to keep the crazies in the nut house but figured out they could let all the crazies out and sell them pills for a huge profit and when they acted up put them in jail and now all those crazies have kids that vote and fill the university's and here we are in this mess they definitely don't want to fix.  

I used to pass this place on the way to the track every week and it was packed full and one day it was just empty and has been abandoned for 20 years now. It's a massive mental institution. Where did all the residents go? 

(The aviation place is across street)

I’m going to keep on with my personal experience. Even though minutes ago, I tried to delete my two previous replies. 
 

“Don’t do drugs”. Unless, they’re government approved pharmaceuticals. All the guys that were in on drug charges? When the Meds cart came around, they’re first in line for their psychotropic government approved drugs. Illegal, over the counter, pharmaceuticals, it’s still attests to a drug culture. 
 

I’d much rather see this money spent on programs at home, those suffering from mental health issues tended to; before we send a penny outside of our border. 
 

Afghanistan ($4.89 billion)

Israel ($3.3 billion)

Jordan ($1.72 billion)

Egypt ($1.46 billion)

Iraq ($960 million)

Ethiopia ($922 million)

Yemen ($809 million)

Colombia ($800 million)

Nigeria ($793 million)

Lebanon ($790 million)

People shouldn’t be disposable. I miss the time when we took care of our neighbors. Never mind knew them.