2017 250SX idle gear case break?

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10/20/2018 10:22 PM

Wanted to see if anyone had this issue also? Fourth kick to start the bike and bang.

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10/20/2018 10:50 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/20/2018 10:51 PM

There’s a million page thread on this issue on KTM Talk, and I believe there’s one on thumper Talk as well. KTM/Husky updated the cases in 2018 because of this issue. See if KTM will warranty it since it’s a known issue.

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10/20/2018 11:07 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/21/2018 3:23 AM

Go to KTM Talk in the 2t section. http://ktmtalk.com/showthread.php?534836-17-idler-gear

KTM updated the cases pretty quickly, a few got warranty, others didn't. You'll see pictures of the updated cases, with easily visible external case reinforcement, and the new gear retention set up.

Every single one of the owners that have the original cases, Should be provided the new ones, and the different gear / bushing set up (I think they changed that as well, but could be wrong). I'd regard it as a major priority recall, that should be mandatory, and, if denied warranty, would pursue it hard. It's a dreadful f**k up on KTMs part, that they seem to just want to walk away from. Of course, it probably represents quite a few thousand cases to be provided.........

Some are putting in a longer retaining bolt - I think it comes to being 18mm(?) with them tapping threads all the way to the base of the hole. But, many of the failure pictures have shown the landing breaking off well into / onto the 'face' of the cases, not really near the stopping point of the short , original retaining bolt. Pictures have been put up of failures with the 'long bolt solution' applied.
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It's also been shown that the bushing that the idler gear runs on, can allow the gear to cock slightly, thus delivering extremely high, jamming loads to a weak, badly designed gear landing / casing.

I'd regard any 17 250 / 300 with the first RH inner case and idler gear retention set up, as a ticking time bomb.

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10/20/2018 11:21 PM

Can someone post pictures of the faulty and updated cases? I may pick up a new 17 and would like to see the differences.

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10/21/2018 1:09 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/21/2018 3:26 AM

2 external pictures of the New case, 1 big, 1 small - the 'double bump' you can see on the case does not exist on the dodgy cases:

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The inside of the new case showing the totally different landing, and the new steel post that uses a circlip to hold the idler gear on:
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It's all a major change in design, over a demonstrably bad design . If you don't think so, well .........

Of course, a bloke on the site that seems upset with my describing the crap original cases as 'ticking time bombs', has put up a few posts / pictures of it still being OK, after a succession of hours. It seems that strange affliction -"pride of ownership", rules people even when faced with a genuine problem with 'their' bike. But, he notes he doesn't use the Kick Starter........ that appears to be the tactic most are using. SX owners, of course, don't have an ES. A friend of mine who bought a '17 EXC, that has had to leave it idle due to work commitments, when I saw he had it, I warned him about the problem. He called his dealer, to be told "they've never heard of it". Yet, there's an OZ bloke or two on the thread I put up, that have had failures. With, I think, no help coming from KTM Australia.

It's like the 250 4ts a few years back, that were doing conrods / big ends. It was shown on KTM Talk, for quite some time, but, there were "no problems in OZ", until all of a sudden, at a dealership I worked at, at least 5 250s we had, had to have the rods / big ends replaced. Luckily ( though on the warranty 'flat rate' for labour, we were far from lucky) 4 were still in stock. The one that had 'got away', we had in for a service, so did the rebuild. Unfortunately, the dreadful mechanic that did the job, buggered the job up, as when the owner came to pick it up, it pissed out oil at the case joint. In all my years in the industry, I don't think I came across a worse mechanic, continually effing up, yet he thought he was near god like. I think he's still out there, bullshitting his way up the stairway to the top.

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10/21/2018 6:22 AM

There has been no documented case with the so called long bolt mod.

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vomiting equals disqualification.

10/21/2018 6:53 AM

Bearuno wrote:

2 external pictures of the New case, 1 big, 1 small - the 'double bump' you can see on the case does not exist on the dodgy cases:

Photo

Photo

The inside of the new case showing the totally different landing, and the new steel post that uses a circlip to hold the idler gear on:
Photo

It's all a major change in design, over a demonstrably bad design . If you don't think so, well .........

Of course, a bloke on the site that seems upset with my describing the crap original cases as 'ticking time bombs', has put up a few posts / pictures of it still being OK, after a succession of hours. It seems that strange affliction -"pride of ownership", rules people even when faced with a genuine problem with 'their' bike. But, he notes he doesn't use the Kick Starter........ that appears to be the tactic most are using. SX owners, of course, don't have an ES. A friend of mine who bought a '17 EXC, that has had to leave it idle due to work commitments, when I saw he had it, I warned him about the problem. He called his dealer, to be told "they've never heard of it". Yet, there's an OZ bloke or two on the thread I put up, that have had failures. With, I think, no help coming from KTM Australia.

It's like the 250 4ts a few years back, that were doing conrods / big ends. It was shown on KTM Talk, for quite some time, but, there were "no problems in OZ", until all of a sudden, at a dealership I worked at, at least 5 250s we had, had to have the rods / big ends replaced. Luckily ( though on the warranty 'flat rate' for labour, we were far from lucky) 4 were still in stock. The one that had 'got away', we had in for a service, so did the rebuild. Unfortunately, the dreadful mechanic that did the job, buggered the job up, as when the owner came to pick it up, it pissed out oil at the case joint. In all my years in the industry, I don't think I came across a worse mechanic, continually effing up, yet he thought he was near god like. I think he's still out there, bullshitting his way up the stairway to the top.

Fake it till you make it

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10/21/2018 10:37 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/21/2018 4:01 PM

Thanks for all of the replies. I found the thread on KTMTalk. Seems like this is a pretty poor design. I'm going to try and have KTM pay for some of this, but I'm not holding my breath. Plus it doesn't help that I drove 10 hours to the Evergood Open, at Oak Ridge in Iowa only to not even make it a single lap in practice. I'll update later today with some additional pics later today. Also if you're ever in Marshalltown Iowa your bike will fit perfectly in the elevator at the Hampton inn. Below is the bike in question, 82 hrs.

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10/21/2018 10:45 AM

damn shame for sure, wish you had the long bolt mod done. See what they say, hope it gets taken care of.

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vomiting equals disqualification.

10/21/2018 2:03 PM

Seriously? I hadn't heard of this. Now I'm nervous to start my TC! Bummer...

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10/21/2018 2:22 PM

do the long bolt mod and sleep well.

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vomiting equals disqualification.

10/21/2018 3:59 PM

BR8ES wrote:

do the long bolt mod and sleep well.

Would the updated cases need the long bolt mod also, because I don't think this could be welded/repaired. Maybe I'm wrong.

Some additional pics. Does anyone know how to order cases? I looked on RMATV and you can't buy oem cases. I'm assuming you have to order from the dealer?

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10/21/2018 4:10 PM

BR8ES wrote:

do the long bolt mod and sleep well.

Just order a 2018 oem bolt?

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10/21/2018 4:24 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/21/2018 4:28 PM

the 18 cases are different and use a circlip to hold the idler gear on basically, the way the cases usually are with KTM. You can use any 18-20mm bolt, I think the 18 fits a bit better, that came from a ground down 20. fills up the void and increases strength. 12mm is ridiculous with a poor design.

You can buy the cases from any vendor that sells KTM parts. They just don't keep them in stock.

Where are these pictures and such of failures with the long bolt mod???

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vomiting equals disqualification.

10/21/2018 5:01 PM

Never mind, found the cases on RMATV. $609.....

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10/21/2018 6:43 PM

just remember to get the associated parts with a bottom end rebuild, etc. You'll need the 18 idler gear too.

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vomiting equals disqualification.

10/22/2018 4:41 PM

Glad this came up. Well Not glad you ruined the case and your weekend, that sucks.

But I had forgot all about this issue. I have the older case and I need to tap that hole and thread deeper. I can't believe how few threads are actually engaged in the case...

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10/23/2018 3:27 PM

Small update, spoke with the dealer and KTM said it will be covered under warranty. So keeping my fingers crossed.

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10/23/2018 4:17 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/23/2018 4:23 PM

is a tap and the 18mm bolt the only parts required for the long bolt mod? I was not able to open the ktmtalk link that someone listed above.

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10/23/2018 4:33 PM

you may want to get the clutch hub washer/retainer, about it.

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vomiting equals disqualification.

10/23/2018 4:42 PM

BR8ES wrote:

you may want to get the clutch hub washer/retainer, about it.

ok thanks for info!

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10/23/2018 4:45 PM

BR8ES wrote:

you may want to get the clutch hub washer/retainer, about it.

rollin64caddy wrote:

ok thanks for info!

Yes Sir, you are welcome.

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vomiting equals disqualification.

12/18/2018 4:15 PM



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55 hours in in my Ktm just put a fresh top end in and I went to go ride at the local mx track and this happened after kicking it .. didn’t even get a lap in
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12/18/2018 4:16 PM

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12/18/2018 5:56 PM

^^^^ long bolt mod? Ktm should have recalled these... hopefully you get a good will replacement. Sorry about your luck

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vomiting equals disqualification.

12/18/2018 6:27 PM

What is the long bolt mod ? Is it too late for that ?

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12/18/2018 6:29 PM

Too late... it replaces the ridiculous 12mm idle gear bolt with a 18-20mm

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vomiting equals disqualification.

12/18/2018 7:14 PM

jmtheo91 wrote:

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55 hours in in my Ktm just put a fresh top end in and I went to go ride at the local mx track and this happened after kicking it .. didn’t even get a lap in

Wait is this a 125? Also go to your dealer, mine is currently in the process of fixing it on KTMs dime.

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12/18/2018 7:29 PM

Yes 2017 125 .... I am a second hand owner ... do you think it would be a problem ? I probably will try anyways just wondering..? Thank you

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12/18/2018 8:22 PM

jmtheo91 wrote:

Yes 2017 125 .... I am a second hand owner ... do you think it would be a problem ? I probably will try anyways just wondering..? Thank you

Don't think it will be a problem to get KTM to pay for it. I've just never seen it on a 125. All the issues I've seen (experienced) have been 250s. Bummer about your bike.

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