Arrogance in motocross

gerro90
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gerro90
Edited Date/Time 8/17/2015 12:53pm
First of all out of all the forums vital mx has the best help by far and has helped me greatly with my bike. BUT... It seems that there are still too many self proclaimed experts that love to hear themselves talk, that would be fine if they was actually answering a question that has been asked instead they throw insults and not dignify (the lesser rider) with a answer. The worst thing is that the worst offenders for this are always dealers. Which is why shops are losing to the Internet. I have worked in sales for a longtime and all sorts of industries and I have never seen the same bad service and attitudes that's accepted in motorcycle shops these days. Again if you like to help people enjoy this sport that we all love then this is not aimed at you, but I think we have all experienced this arrogance ethier online or in stores and I'm personally over it. I'm not Chad reed or his machanic but like most people that are at my relatively amateur level that doesn't mean I can't spot a turd who thinks they should be on some motocross brain trust because the dribble they spit is just hat good. You know who you are out there so the next time someone asked you a question at the track or online OR especially at your shop where good service should come first! Remember you wasn't born the legend you think you are now you had to learn, which means better men then you were happy to teach. Rant over guys I love riding and we need the sport to grow its not some secret club new riders are where great mechanics and great riders come from.
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xnationalwrench 8/2/2015 9:40am
8/2/2015 9:40am
Maybe it isn't arrogance but more like a bad day? I have worked in the industry for many years and everyone has a bad day. If the customer before you asked for information and you stop and try to assist him and he comes back with "Your wrong it can't be that" then why ask me what I thought? I have seen mechanics get moody because they think your taking money out of their pocket if you do the work your self. I would recommend finding a good dealer and mechanic and stick with them.
DPR250R
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DPR250R 8/3/2015 7:25am
8/3/2015 7:25am
The arrogance and greed of dealers/shops is what pushed me to never have to rely on them.

I guess I owe them a big thank you!!
DPR250R
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DPR250R 8/3/2015 7:32am
8/3/2015 7:32am Edited Date/Time 8/3/2015 7:33am
Dup post.

The Shop

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Aceofspades 8/3/2015 2:15pm
8/3/2015 2:15pm
Ive yet to find a dealer that wasnt filled to the brim with assholes. I dont get it either.
rossi46
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rossi46 8/4/2015 3:09am
8/4/2015 3:09am
its rare to find a dealer in Australia that wouldnt know if you were chok a blok up them....
xnationalwrench 8/4/2015 10:16am
8/4/2015 10:16am
rossi46 wrote:
its rare to find a dealer in Australia that wouldnt know if you were chok a blok up them....
Translation please LOL
rossi46
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rossi46 8/4/2015 6:12pm
8/4/2015 6:12pm
rossi46 wrote:
its rare to find a dealer in Australia that wouldnt know if you were chok a blok up them....
xnationalwrench wrote:
Translation please LOL
it means my dealer is so clueless that he wouldnt know if you were fucking him up the ass
JH911
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JH911 8/14/2015 1:21am
8/14/2015 1:21am
Maybe it's both sides of the counter. I try to stay away from forums but this subject and the attitude/tone taken by the customers in the examples given sound to me like the customer has already taken the attitude the shop is trying to rip him off while also exuding some type of arrogance in their behalf "ass"uming they already know more than the people doing this day in and day out. Yes, I work for a dealer. I am a certified tech. Currently parts manager and a Int. B class racer. My boss the owner a former AMA National/Supercross pro. Our GM a former AMA pro. National Hare&Hound champion multi time SCORE Baja class 30 champion. One of our techs a former top AMA flat track pro who had a factory ride with CanAm and after retiring from racing was a factory Honda test rider...........case and point? We have a lot of experience, looking at any one of us without knowing who we were ie the customer off the street. You would not know it. Public perception is huge! I cannot speak for all dealers, but I can tell you our shop is known for knowledge, customer service, and being competitive. What most customers don't know is how little profit dealers actually make and how huge the overhead is. Greed?? This isn't Walmart. We can't discount 40-50% and still make a profit pay our employees, bills, utilities, and keep the doors open. We don't buy bikes from Honda for $4000 and sell them for $7000 or even $6000 a dealership is lucky to make $500 on a bike in our current market. We don't even make 10% profit!! Parts/Acc. On average we gross 30-35% on parts/Acc. If we're lucky well hit up to 40%. These slim margins make it hard to stay open. We exist because we're passionate about what we do. We're not getting rich. My boss still works a second job to help keep the shop going!! you can only assume we're just like the other dealer down the road. One may already have had a bad experience with another dealer and carry those feelings into their dealings with a new dealer with the assumption were all the same. So your customer experience can be a result of the attitude you take when you walk in the door. If you think dealers suck and walk in with that attitude then your mind is already made up. Now on the flip side Nobody is perfect and we can't please everybody but we'll try. We make mistakes we screw up. were all human. You give exceptional service to 1 person your lucky if they tell 1 person about their positive experience. You piss 1 customer off they tell the world and seem to make it their goal to trash your reputation. From a dealership perspective we will look to the Internet. The Internet has a lot of good information, but it also has far more bad information. YouTube and Forums are the biggest culprits of bad info. Why? Anonymity......anyone and everyone can be a pro or expert! Who are you to judge them?? If you want to put a shop employee on the defensive start the conversation with "I read online" then argue when they inform you the information you got is wrong or incomplete. We are there to help and support our brands products sports and riders. We are not there to diagnose and fix your problem over the phone or in the parking lot! That's what a service department and mechanics are for! This does not make us bad people. We are a business and the function of a business is to make money. A lawyer, doctor, electrician, accountant, whoever......won't try to help fix your problem over the phone for free! Why do expect us to do it? If you come in and ask for a parts quote and you feel it's too high before telling your friends how the dealer is trying to rip you off and your going online. Try informing them of how you feel and ask them if they will price match! Don't assume they won't! Don't assume you'll get it cheaper online. I know several online retailers that actually mark stuff up over retail just to discount it back to or just below retail. This is no lie, one of our industries biggest and everyone's favorite online store does this. Just because it's online and showing a discount does not mean your getting a deal. Companies like fox go pro alpine stars bell Thor shoei all have very strict policies that online retailers must sell their products at full retail unless it's discontinued. Ie your more likely to get a deal by shopping locally for those products and asking for a discount vs spending hours on the Internet looking for a deal. Our shop appreciates our customers and therefor we work with them to retain their business and better our business as a whole. Maybe our shop is an exception, but again were far from perfect. We try that's all we can do......if your willing to give us that chance. So I know I jumped around a lot but as of right now it's 1 am and my chain of thought has come off the sprockets! I encourage everyone to try to support your local dealer because sooner or later they maybe gone! You may need goggles, oil, filter, a tube, tire, or something at 3pm Friday or Saturday where are you going to go?? Sorry online stores aren't going to have it to your door in time for you to go ride. Your local dealer may have what you need in stk and they're open until 6! Don't take us/them for granted were here to help get you back on the bike. You may not like the salesman, but the parts guy is cool, or the service manager etc. Even a bad dealership has at least 1 employee who wants to help! Find them if you can or are willing and insist on working with them exclusively if that's what it takes! you may notice your perception and or customer experience change over time. That's all! Good night!
Fearo
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Fearo 8/14/2015 2:52am
8/14/2015 2:52am
JH911, that is a great post. But the fact that you took the time to write all this puts you in a small category of dealers that WANTS to interact with new people and thinks it's important to uphold a good image for potential new customers. I am a business owner myself and to me, this is one of the most basic principles of owning a business.

I buy a lot of stuff online, but I try to keep a somewhat good relationship with my KTM dealer who is an hour away. (I am from Belgium, so that's basically at the other side of the country). I wanted to buy a new bike asap, but "my" dealer didn't have the one I wanted in stock. I called 2 other dealerships and had a horrible experience. Couldn't get the owner on the phone, asked both of them to call me back when THEY had the time and they never did.

I wanted to drop 7,5K on a brand new dirtbike and couldn't get someone to return my calls...

I love this sport to death but have to agree with the OP, that it is littered with arrogance in all shapes and forms.
gerro90
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gerro90 8/15/2015 12:27pm
8/15/2015 12:27pm
This post wasn't aimed at anyone who understands good service. JH911 I'm sure your store has allot of knowledge like most stores out there.. I'm sorry you assumed I go into stores with a bad attitude but it's simply not the case. I always give them all the same chance to wow me and actually help me, which in turn helps me spend my money with there store instead of just going online. I spend online as a last resort after I have been embarrassed enough for one day. Allot of businesses struggle to make profit because of online stores, but you have to understand the only way a store can compete is with GOOD customer service. Yes there are also asshole customers but that is not me! You saying that your profit margins being low is some kind of excuse to have contempt for the customer is the reason we have this problem or at least part of the reason. I have put my money where my mouth is and got a job with a Ktm dealer that shares the same beliefs I do when it comes to good customer service and I will never let one of my customers walk away feeling embarrassed and sick to the stomach, even if they come in with a attitude problem it's my job to rectify that.
JBernard_401
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JBernard_401 8/15/2015 12:32pm
8/15/2015 12:32pm
JH911 wrote:
Maybe it's both sides of the counter. I try to stay away from forums but this subject and the attitude/tone taken by the customers in the...
Maybe it's both sides of the counter. I try to stay away from forums but this subject and the attitude/tone taken by the customers in the examples given sound to me like the customer has already taken the attitude the shop is trying to rip him off while also exuding some type of arrogance in their behalf "ass"uming they already know more than the people doing this day in and day out. Yes, I work for a dealer. I am a certified tech. Currently parts manager and a Int. B class racer. My boss the owner a former AMA National/Supercross pro. Our GM a former AMA pro. National Hare&Hound champion multi time SCORE Baja class 30 champion. One of our techs a former top AMA flat track pro who had a factory ride with CanAm and after retiring from racing was a factory Honda test rider...........case and point? We have a lot of experience, looking at any one of us without knowing who we were ie the customer off the street. You would not know it. Public perception is huge! I cannot speak for all dealers, but I can tell you our shop is known for knowledge, customer service, and being competitive. What most customers don't know is how little profit dealers actually make and how huge the overhead is. Greed?? This isn't Walmart. We can't discount 40-50% and still make a profit pay our employees, bills, utilities, and keep the doors open. We don't buy bikes from Honda for $4000 and sell them for $7000 or even $6000 a dealership is lucky to make $500 on a bike in our current market. We don't even make 10% profit!! Parts/Acc. On average we gross 30-35% on parts/Acc. If we're lucky well hit up to 40%. These slim margins make it hard to stay open. We exist because we're passionate about what we do. We're not getting rich. My boss still works a second job to help keep the shop going!! you can only assume we're just like the other dealer down the road. One may already have had a bad experience with another dealer and carry those feelings into their dealings with a new dealer with the assumption were all the same. So your customer experience can be a result of the attitude you take when you walk in the door. If you think dealers suck and walk in with that attitude then your mind is already made up. Now on the flip side Nobody is perfect and we can't please everybody but we'll try. We make mistakes we screw up. were all human. You give exceptional service to 1 person your lucky if they tell 1 person about their positive experience. You piss 1 customer off they tell the world and seem to make it their goal to trash your reputation. From a dealership perspective we will look to the Internet. The Internet has a lot of good information, but it also has far more bad information. YouTube and Forums are the biggest culprits of bad info. Why? Anonymity......anyone and everyone can be a pro or expert! Who are you to judge them?? If you want to put a shop employee on the defensive start the conversation with "I read online" then argue when they inform you the information you got is wrong or incomplete. We are there to help and support our brands products sports and riders. We are not there to diagnose and fix your problem over the phone or in the parking lot! That's what a service department and mechanics are for! This does not make us bad people. We are a business and the function of a business is to make money. A lawyer, doctor, electrician, accountant, whoever......won't try to help fix your problem over the phone for free! Why do expect us to do it? If you come in and ask for a parts quote and you feel it's too high before telling your friends how the dealer is trying to rip you off and your going online. Try informing them of how you feel and ask them if they will price match! Don't assume they won't! Don't assume you'll get it cheaper online. I know several online retailers that actually mark stuff up over retail just to discount it back to or just below retail. This is no lie, one of our industries biggest and everyone's favorite online store does this. Just because it's online and showing a discount does not mean your getting a deal. Companies like fox go pro alpine stars bell Thor shoei all have very strict policies that online retailers must sell their products at full retail unless it's discontinued. Ie your more likely to get a deal by shopping locally for those products and asking for a discount vs spending hours on the Internet looking for a deal. Our shop appreciates our customers and therefor we work with them to retain their business and better our business as a whole. Maybe our shop is an exception, but again were far from perfect. We try that's all we can do......if your willing to give us that chance. So I know I jumped around a lot but as of right now it's 1 am and my chain of thought has come off the sprockets! I encourage everyone to try to support your local dealer because sooner or later they maybe gone! You may need goggles, oil, filter, a tube, tire, or something at 3pm Friday or Saturday where are you going to go?? Sorry online stores aren't going to have it to your door in time for you to go ride. Your local dealer may have what you need in stk and they're open until 6! Don't take us/them for granted were here to help get you back on the bike. You may not like the salesman, but the parts guy is cool, or the service manager etc. Even a bad dealership has at least 1 employee who wants to help! Find them if you can or are willing and insist on working with them exclusively if that's what it takes! you may notice your perception and or customer experience change over time. That's all! Good night!


bob567
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bob567 8/15/2015 3:30pm
8/15/2015 3:30pm
Less human interaction the better. I buy everything online with zero issues and the lowest prices. Can't wait until I can order a bike from Amazon shipped to my door in the crate.
j368
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j368 8/16/2015 6:55pm
8/16/2015 6:55pm
I've got a great Honda dealer that I've been dealing with for quite awhile. I get a fair price on a bike, they have to make a living too. But, they take good care of me on the parts & accessories side. So I give them probably 90% of everything I buy, and some service business too. I've got a great relationship with an excellent mechanic there. If they can get it or order it, then they get my business. I'm very happy to help support them with my money spent on the sport. I order very little online now.
Premixed112
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Premixed112 8/17/2015 10:19am
8/17/2015 10:19am Edited Date/Time 8/17/2015 10:21am
My biggest gripe about dealerships is they never have an OEM part you need, and that's what they should be putting first as a priority, so we go to them for our parts instead of being forced to order online.. At least the ones I go to, anyway. I went to the one of the very few KTM dealerships in my state a while back to get a shift lever because I had monkey footed mine and it stripped out. They didn't even have that..... Not an OEM one or even a cheap crappy aftermarket one that fit my bike ('14 KTM 250sx).

How in the fuck do you not have a shifter that likely fits many of these bikes?? I mean, if they don't have that, how could I ever come to them for anything model specific or a piston, or something like that? Or if I had a bike that isn't as modern as mine. And they're a pretty good sized dealership, too, with a ton of bikes inside. I think the main problem is with the fancy dealerships that mainly sell sport bikes and seadoos as their main cash cow with dirt bikes as secondary items. My favorite bike shop and one that I support as often as I can, is one that isn't really a dealership. They sell used bikes that people trade in, but mainly are a shop to buy miscellaneous parts, gear, fluids etc. But the work they do is great, and because I'm a repeat customer, I get good deals and sometimes they won't charge me labor for something I need help on.
Premixed112
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Premixed112 8/17/2015 10:36am
8/17/2015 10:36am
Another story from recently: I've been rebuilding my '06 YZ250 from the frame up with new bearings and other parts. Most recently, I was changing out steering stem bearings for the first time and I don't have access to a press to get the bottom bearing onto the stem and I assumed my choice bike shop didn't have one, because their workshop is on the small side (looking back, probably should've checked to see if they actually didn't have one first..). At the time, I also needed to get a tiny bearing for the governor gear pressed out because I don't have a blind bearing puller attachment that's small enough to fit it. So I decide to go to the local Yamaha dealership to get both of these things done for the hell of it.

I bring the stem, bearing (greased up so they don't have to do it), seal, and my case half with the little bearing to be pressed out. Everything they need, all that needs to be done is to use a press and take probably 30 seconds getting the stem bearing on and probably 10 seconds getting the little bearing out.

I get the call about an hour later that it's all done and I can pick it up. I get there and get rung up and see that they charged 30 bucks for the labor and about 6 bucks in "shop materials" or something with similar wording.. Really... So, you're going to charge me 30 bucks for something that likely took you a minute or two and what I honestly could've done myself, if I had the press at my disposal. Learned a lesson with that one. Only go to a dealership to get something fixed after exhausting ALL of your options because they'll charge out the ass for the simplest labor.
Tpog496
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Tpog496 8/17/2015 12:53pm
8/17/2015 12:53pm
Premixed112 wrote:
Another story from recently: I've been rebuilding my '06 YZ250 from the frame up with new bearings and other parts. Most recently, I was changing out...
Another story from recently: I've been rebuilding my '06 YZ250 from the frame up with new bearings and other parts. Most recently, I was changing out steering stem bearings for the first time and I don't have access to a press to get the bottom bearing onto the stem and I assumed my choice bike shop didn't have one, because their workshop is on the small side (looking back, probably should've checked to see if they actually didn't have one first..). At the time, I also needed to get a tiny bearing for the governor gear pressed out because I don't have a blind bearing puller attachment that's small enough to fit it. So I decide to go to the local Yamaha dealership to get both of these things done for the hell of it.

I bring the stem, bearing (greased up so they don't have to do it), seal, and my case half with the little bearing to be pressed out. Everything they need, all that needs to be done is to use a press and take probably 30 seconds getting the stem bearing on and probably 10 seconds getting the little bearing out.

I get the call about an hour later that it's all done and I can pick it up. I get there and get rung up and see that they charged 30 bucks for the labor and about 6 bucks in "shop materials" or something with similar wording.. Really... So, you're going to charge me 30 bucks for something that likely took you a minute or two and what I honestly could've done myself, if I had the press at my disposal. Learned a lesson with that one. Only go to a dealership to get something fixed after exhausting ALL of your options because they'll charge out the ass for the simplest labor.
If they charged you any less than that they wouldn't be able to make any money, yea it didn't take much time to use the press but the tech had to stop what he was doing, clean up, go get a work order, fill out the paper work, give it the service advisor, the service advisor then has to bill it out, and the tech has to clean up after the job. Anybody who brings something into a shop for anything to be done and expects a bill less than 20$ doesn't understand the fact that nobody works for free.

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