Air Traffic Control Reform Initiative

colintrax wrote:

The problem with privatization, is its just a way to help rich people start a new business venture. Look at privatized jails, the company's come in...

The problem with privatization, is its just a way to help rich people start a new business venture. Look at privatized jails, the company's come in, cut guards, cut pay to Walmart like wages, stuff more prisoners into the jails, and lobby for tougher sentencing. All in the name of making money. We may not be paying for it in taxes, but we're paying for it.
Wait for the air traffic controllers to start getting laid off, wages cut, and benefits taken away. Gonna be awesome with all this winning.

gabrielito wrote:

Sounds like a good idea to me.

gabrielito wrote:

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Firefly47 wrote:

Yes. Profit and ROI above safety will work great right up until the first time it doesn't.

Dirty Britches wrote:

my buddy is an air traffic controller. sum bitch makes $150k a year.
He said it's pretty stressful and you always have to be on it.

Dirty Britches wrote:

my buddy is an air traffic controller. sum bitch makes $150k a year.
He said it's pretty stressful and you always have to be on it.

Dirty Britches wrote:

my buddy is an air traffic controller. sum bitch makes $150k a year.
He said it's pretty stressful and you always have to be on it.

JW381 wrote:

You have to be 26 or under when you start schooling for it, they don't take applicants over that age because they need people who are...

You have to be 26 or under when you start schooling for it, they don't take applicants over that age because they need people who are young enough to deal with the demands. Pretty crazy job, I should start before I turn 27 in August!

As far as the privatization idea, I think it's an awful one. I know government can be costly, but I'd rather feel safe while flying as opposed to wondering where costs were cut. Just more phony corporate capitalism.

SCR wrote:

What's wrong with rich people starting new business ventures? Who else would start them? Broke people ? Do you know who are the richest people in...

What's wrong with rich people starting new business ventures? Who else would start them? Broke people ? Do you know who are the richest people in the world are? US Govt agencies that have little accountability for efficiency or how they spend money. And use accounting practices that private businesses go to jail for.

Take a look at the TSA.

By the way take a look at the prison reform going on in CA the last 5 years. Our Governor and legislature has passed law after law to combat prison overcrowding and costs with early release, no pa role follow up, lesser sentences,etc.
Guess what, shockingling crime is going up and prison funding is going up not down.

I do construction probjects for the Govt on military bases. With your wildest imagination you would not be prepared for how costly , inefficient, and backwads they operate. Look into Gov. Budgeting vs private busineSS budgeting and you will understand why it is not possible for Gov agencies to be accountable or efficient. And you will start to understand that it's the Gov, Fed Reserve, and IRS that is directly responsible for bankrupting every person in this country one incremental unnoticed hidden tax at a time that they need to keep feeding the monster that nobody can seem to stop.

SCR wrote:

What's wrong with rich people starting new business ventures? Who else would start them? Broke people ? Do you know who are the richest people in...

What's wrong with rich people starting new business ventures? Who else would start them? Broke people ? Do you know who are the richest people in the world are? US Govt agencies that have little accountability for efficiency or how they spend money. And use accounting practices that private businesses go to jail for.

Take a look at the TSA.

By the way take a look at the prison reform going on in CA the last 5 years. Our Governor and legislature has passed law after law to combat prison overcrowding and costs with early release, no pa role follow up, lesser sentences,etc.
Guess what, shockingling crime is going up and prison funding is going up not down.

I do construction probjects for the Govt on military bases. With your wildest imagination you would not be prepared for how costly , inefficient, and backwads they operate. Look into Gov. Budgeting vs private busineSS budgeting and you will understand why it is not possible for Gov agencies to be accountable or efficient. And you will start to understand that it's the Gov, Fed Reserve, and IRS that is directly responsible for bankrupting every person in this country one incremental unnoticed hidden tax at a time that they need to keep feeding the monster that nobody can seem to stop.

Harry Backmon wrote:

I can't tell what you're arguing for here. [i]By the way take a look at the prison reform going on in CA the last 5 years...

I can't tell what you're arguing for here.

By the way take a look at the prison reform going on in CA the last 5 years. Our Governor and legislature has passed law after law to combat prison overcrowding and costs with early release, no pa role follow up, lesser sentences,etc.
Guess what, shockingling crime is going up and prison funding is going up not down.

Huh? What, in your opinion, will make this get better? I can't tell if you're arguing for or against privatization.

I do construction probjects for the Govt on military bases. With your wildest imagination you would not be prepared for how costly , inefficient, and backwads they operate.

Again, huh? You're doing the construction. Are you operating inefficiently, or is the military operating inefficiently for hiring you?

Do NOT turn the air traffic control system over to private industry. As Firefly noted, "Yes. Profit and ROI above safety will work great right up until the first time it doesn't."

ToolMaker wrote:

Once you understand that in government you get rewarded for spending more and in private enterprise you get rewarded for spending less, it's all clear. In...

Once you understand that in government you get rewarded for spending more and in private enterprise you get rewarded for spending less, it's all clear.
In government, if you don't spend your entire budget, you lose what's not spent and it gets cut the next year. You don't get promoted or bonuses for efficiency. Private enterprise, you streamline spending and you are a rising star. You might even get direct bonus for savings.
It's that simple. Of course there are exceptions but for the bulk of it...

SCR wrote:

What's wrong with rich people starting new business ventures? Who else would start them? Broke people ? Do you know who are the richest people in...

What's wrong with rich people starting new business ventures? Who else would start them? Broke people ? Do you know who are the richest people in the world are? US Govt agencies that have little accountability for efficiency or how they spend money. And use accounting practices that private businesses go to jail for.

Take a look at the TSA.

By the way take a look at the prison reform going on in CA the last 5 years. Our Governor and legislature has passed law after law to combat prison overcrowding and costs with early release, no pa role follow up, lesser sentences,etc.
Guess what, shockingling crime is going up and prison funding is going up not down.

I do construction probjects for the Govt on military bases. With your wildest imagination you would not be prepared for how costly , inefficient, and backwads they operate. Look into Gov. Budgeting vs private busineSS budgeting and you will understand why it is not possible for Gov agencies to be accountable or efficient. And you will start to understand that it's the Gov, Fed Reserve, and IRS that is directly responsible for bankrupting every person in this country one incremental unnoticed hidden tax at a time that they need to keep feeding the monster that nobody can seem to stop.

Harry Backmon wrote:

I can't tell what you're arguing for here. [i]By the way take a look at the prison reform going on in CA the last 5 years...

I can't tell what you're arguing for here.

By the way take a look at the prison reform going on in CA the last 5 years. Our Governor and legislature has passed law after law to combat prison overcrowding and costs with early release, no pa role follow up, lesser sentences,etc.
Guess what, shockingling crime is going up and prison funding is going up not down.

Huh? What, in your opinion, will make this get better? I can't tell if you're arguing for or against privatization.

I do construction probjects for the Govt on military bases. With your wildest imagination you would not be prepared for how costly , inefficient, and backwads they operate.

Again, huh? You're doing the construction. Are you operating inefficiently, or is the military operating inefficiently for hiring you?

Do NOT turn the air traffic control system over to private industry. As Firefly noted, "Yes. Profit and ROI above safety will work great right up until the first time it doesn't."

SCR wrote:

Again, huh? You're doing the construction. Are you operating inefficiently, or is the military operating inefficiently for hiring you? No the Military is being inefficient by...

Again, huh? You're doing the construction. Are you operating inefficiently, or is the military operating inefficiently for hiring you?

No the Military is being inefficient by requiring that a simple 3 week job like we completed in January to have a Minority owned prime contractor ( a pass thru contractor, also see affirmative action) run the project instead of contracting directly with us, which they used to do in most cases on smaller jobs where the majority of work was our trade. Add in that there are 1,300 pages in the bid documents even though the scope of work is one and a half pages long, poorly written and not much use. The prime contractor has to supply a separate full time QC ( certified quality control person), full time safety person, and full time Project Superintendent on the job every day. That is 3 full time baby sitters watching over our 2 mechanics on the job. Add in buy American act requirements to purchase materials that are no longer made in the US so we spend countless ours providing documentation to complete the required waivers to use Non US made materials. Redundant safety regulation documentation that doesn't do anything to make the job safer, Contract administrators that are versed in paperwork and documentation but have little real world experience when it comes to project management, and are usually focused on how best to cover their own ass rather than take the risk of actually making a grown up decision about something.

The project I mentioned above was for a chilled water cooling system for a Hydraulic test bench. They provide the test bench. After 3 weeks of daily questioning and pressure of how important this project was to get done on time and get this test bench on line we finished on time. That was Jan 30th. They still have not got the bench in place for start up and we still have $15K retention sitting on a one day start up.

To be fair I have worked with some really good people in Govt Contracts but they are retiring every year and being replaced with a lot of people that have no business in their jobs. And in many ways the Govt is more and more doing everything it can to try and use a one size fits all approach and take any kind of decision making away from individuals.

This is only a snipit of the inefficiency I deal with first hand. Even though we are a very small player i have seen and been involved with enough larger projects and dealings to know that it gets much worse. Like I said in your wildest imagination you would not be prepared for the inefficiency and stupidity that goes on with YOUR tax money.

So to answer your question. No its not us its them. We can do the same project in less time for about half the price and every bit as safe.

So, whats my point. I think that a lot of people assume that private companies are always and only motivated by profit and some how that means they have to throw all moral obligations out the window. And that they have to sacrifice the safety off their employees and the public and that they will always hire the cheapest and least qualified people to do the job. Well, if that's true and you work for a private company then do you consider yourself the leas qualified person for the job.

Private companies and Govt agencies are both guilty of bad practices of all kinds. The idea that Govt agencies or Govt oversite guarantees some kind of checks and balance that isn't going to happen in the private sector is false. In fact I would argue that there are checks and balances in many places of the private sector where there are better checks and balances when it comes to efficiency, costs, accountability, and safety.

A lot of private companies get sued, put out of business, go under, close there doors, etc for a lot of reasons. Bad business practices, breaking the law, not maintaining efficiency or an updated business model. How many Govt agencies get shut down ?