Will Webb be docked a position

diz330
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1/29/2022 10:22pm Edited Date/Time 1/31/2022 10:53am
I don't get these guys time and time again going around the track for no reason. Coop could've so easily went straight and rolled the whoops like he should have, and lost for sure one position, possibly 2 whoever was behind Dean.

Thrasher did the exact same thing last weekend there was an opening right in front of him and he skipped the whole rhythm section.
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bowl
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1/29/2022 10:26pm
yes
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Buckland
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1/29/2022 10:27pm
Probably not, but he should.
enketchum
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1/29/2022 10:28pm
I wondered that too when he rode be em. Barcia really nailed it though; you could see him drop his elbow to really spin the throttle back
Mit12
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1/29/2022 10:33pm
He actually lost time to the rider behind him so he did not gain an advantage. No need to dock him.
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The Shop

enketchum
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1/29/2022 10:34pm
Mit12 wrote:
He actually lost time to the rider behind him so he did not gain an advantage. No need to dock him.
Maybe a soaking?
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USA
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1/29/2022 10:35pm
He fell on the track, got up on the track, rode on the track for another 20 feet and then got off the track so he could go faster than if he had to do the obstacles.

If that is not an 'advantage', as the rulebook states, then every rider should start doing something similar. Without grabbing a screenshot, it looked like he was full gas before he gets on the track.
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Zycki11
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1/29/2022 10:38pm
USA wrote:
He fell on the track, got up on the track, rode on the track for another 20 feet and then got off the track so he...
He fell on the track, got up on the track, rode on the track for another 20 feet and then got off the track so he could go faster than if he had to do the obstacles.

If that is not an 'advantage', as the rulebook states, then every rider should start doing something similar. Without grabbing a screenshot, it looked like he was full gas before he gets on the track.
Agreed, how you can go around an obstacle when you tipped over on the track and not off is beyond me. Have some balls AMA
1/29/2022 10:40pm
Mit12 wrote:
He actually lost time to the rider behind him so he did not gain an advantage. No need to dock him.
What’s up coop?
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enketchum
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1/29/2022 10:41pm
Zycki11 wrote:
Agreed, how you can go around an obstacle when you tipped over on the track and not off is beyond me. Have some balls AMA
That's not the AMAs style...
MLewis72
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1/29/2022 10:45pm
USA wrote:
He fell on the track, got up on the track, rode on the track for another 20 feet and then got off the track so he...
He fell on the track, got up on the track, rode on the track for another 20 feet and then got off the track so he could go faster than if he had to do the obstacles.

If that is not an 'advantage', as the rulebook states, then every rider should start doing something similar. Without grabbing a screenshot, it looked like he was full gas before he gets on the track.
He definitely wasn’t full throttle down the side of the track. His name isn’t Jason Anderson. When he rejoined the track Wilson was right on him.
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SX_336
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1/29/2022 10:46pm
It doesn’t matter if he does or doesn’t. He should be, but the way he’s been riding, he’s lucky to even be where he is in points. At this point, he won’t even be in the top 4 by seasons end.
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USA
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1/29/2022 10:47pm
USA wrote:
He fell on the track, got up on the track, rode on the track for another 20 feet and then got off the track so he...
He fell on the track, got up on the track, rode on the track for another 20 feet and then got off the track so he could go faster than if he had to do the obstacles.

If that is not an 'advantage', as the rulebook states, then every rider should start doing something similar. Without grabbing a screenshot, it looked like he was full gas before he gets on the track.
MLewis72 wrote:
He definitely wasn’t full throttle down the side of the track. His name isn’t Jason Anderson. When he rejoined the track Wilson was right on him.
I'm referring to the last 15 feet or so, he starts to pin it but he's not completely back on the track yet. Going off memory until the replay is up, so I could be wrong
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mx313
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1/29/2022 11:14pm
No way he should and I'm a Kenny fan.
He hops up well infront of deano.
Chose to roll down the side to compose himself and make sure everything is good.
He does that superslow knowing he was a fair way infront and allows deano to close right up on him then he joins just infront of Dean.
If he went the whoops he would have been further infront.
He literally let Dean catch him.
His crash was onto of the built up corner. If u rolled into the drop off then pinned it down it. Your run at the whoops wouldn't be far off normal speed.
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TDeath21
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1/29/2022 11:16pm
100% should be. But he did go slow so that might save him. Didn’t go as slow as he would have had to going through the whoops from a dead stop though.
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SX_336
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1/29/2022 11:18pm
mx313 wrote:
No way he should and I'm a Kenny fan. He hops up well infront of deano. Chose to roll down the side to compose himself and...
No way he should and I'm a Kenny fan.
He hops up well infront of deano.
Chose to roll down the side to compose himself and make sure everything is good.
He does that superslow knowing he was a fair way infront and allows deano to close right up on him then he joins just infront of Dean.
If he went the whoops he would have been further infront.
He literally let Dean catch him.
His crash was onto of the built up corner. If u rolled into the drop off then pinned it down it. Your run at the whoops wouldn't be far off normal speed.
That’s not the rule. The rule is to enter the track as soon as possible. He was ON the track and rode OFF the track to avoid the whoops. To me, that’s no different than when Forkner cut the track and got docked a position.
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mx313
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1/30/2022 12:25am
mx313 wrote:
No way he should and I'm a Kenny fan. He hops up well infront of deano. Chose to roll down the side to compose himself and...
No way he should and I'm a Kenny fan.
He hops up well infront of deano.
Chose to roll down the side to compose himself and make sure everything is good.
He does that superslow knowing he was a fair way infront and allows deano to close right up on him then he joins just infront of Dean.
If he went the whoops he would have been further infront.
He literally let Dean catch him.
His crash was onto of the built up corner. If u rolled into the drop off then pinned it down it. Your run at the whoops wouldn't be far off normal speed.
SX_336 wrote:
That’s not the rule. The rule is to enter the track as soon as possible. He was ON the track and rode OFF the track to...
That’s not the rule. The rule is to enter the track as soon as possible. He was ON the track and rode OFF the track to avoid the whoops. To me, that’s no different than when Forkner cut the track and got docked a position.
Forkner cut off a section of track.
Webb rode along the side of the track.
In sx the safety card will always win. If he said he had to make sure nothing was broken. It's a valid excuse.
And the rule is to re-enter the track as soon as possible but in doing so not gain an advantage.
So technically the re entering the track part can be crossed out. And they could make the rule just not make an advantage while off track.
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Talisker
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1/30/2022 1:05am
Webb’s performance tonight was terrible. With Aldon no longer around, he maybe “Partying in Temecula” a bit much.
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Dirt.Squirt
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1/30/2022 1:09am
mx313 wrote:
Forkner cut off a section of track. Webb rode along the side of the track. In sx the safety card will always win. If he said...
Forkner cut off a section of track.
Webb rode along the side of the track.
In sx the safety card will always win. If he said he had to make sure nothing was broken. It's a valid excuse.
And the rule is to re-enter the track as soon as possible but in doing so not gain an advantage.
So technically the re entering the track part can be crossed out. And they could make the rule just not make an advantage while off track.
Webb cut off 70-80% of a section. Where do we draw the line?
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AB#81
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1/30/2022 1:14am
mx313 wrote:
No way he should and I'm a Kenny fan. He hops up well infront of deano. Chose to roll down the side to compose himself and...
No way he should and I'm a Kenny fan.
He hops up well infront of deano.
Chose to roll down the side to compose himself and make sure everything is good.
He does that superslow knowing he was a fair way infront and allows deano to close right up on him then he joins just infront of Dean.
If he went the whoops he would have been further infront.
He literally let Dean catch him.
His crash was onto of the built up corner. If u rolled into the drop off then pinned it down it. Your run at the whoops wouldn't be far off normal speed.
SX_336 wrote:
That’s not the rule. The rule is to enter the track as soon as possible. He was ON the track and rode OFF the track to...
That’s not the rule. The rule is to enter the track as soon as possible. He was ON the track and rode OFF the track to avoid the whoops. To me, that’s no different than when Forkner cut the track and got docked a position.
mx313 wrote:
Forkner cut off a section of track. Webb rode along the side of the track. In sx the safety card will always win. If he said...
Forkner cut off a section of track.
Webb rode along the side of the track.
In sx the safety card will always win. If he said he had to make sure nothing was broken. It's a valid excuse.
And the rule is to re-enter the track as soon as possible but in doing so not gain an advantage.
So technically the re entering the track part can be crossed out. And they could make the rule just not make an advantage while off track.
Re enter? he voluntarily left the track.
Alan Dove
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1/30/2022 1:18am Edited Date/Time 1/30/2022 1:19am
https://www.amasupercross.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/2022-AMA-Super…

12. Failure to re-enter the track at a point as close as practical to the point at which the rider left the track; and in so doing gaining an unfair advantage.

Did he re-enter the track as a point as close practical? I am not sure starting the whoops from where he fell would endanger other riders as per 4.15

4.15 On-Track Regulations a. No rider may ride in such a manner as to endanger life or limb of other riders, officials or the public


The regulation state, from my first read, that the unfair advantage is not gaining time over competitors, it's just not entering back at the closest practical point (4.15 means practical means safe) .

He voluntarily left the track, and then skipped a section. This is contravention of the rules in my view.
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mx313
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1/30/2022 1:27am
Alan Dove wrote:
https://www.amasupercross.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/2022-AMA-Supercross-Rulebook-FinalC.pdf [i]12. Failure to re-enter the track at a point as close as practical to the point at which the rider left the track; and in...
https://www.amasupercross.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/2022-AMA-Super…

12. Failure to re-enter the track at a point as close as practical to the point at which the rider left the track; and in so doing gaining an unfair advantage.

Did he re-enter the track as a point as close practical? I am not sure starting the whoops from where he fell would endanger other riders as per 4.15

4.15 On-Track Regulations a. No rider may ride in such a manner as to endanger life or limb of other riders, officials or the public


The regulation state, from my first read, that the unfair advantage is not gaining time over competitors, it's just not entering back at the closest practical point (4.15 means practical means safe) .

He voluntarily left the track, and then skipped a section. This is contravention of the rules in my view.
No your interpretation of the rule is incorrect.

12. Failure to re-enter the track at a point as close as practical to the point at which the rider left the track; and in so doing gaining an unfair advantage.

That's not 2 key points that's just 1.
And in doing so.
The rule only applies if u make an advantage.
If u fail to re-enter the track at a point as close and don't gain an advantage it negates the whole rule.

U can ride whole sections along side the track as long as u don't make an advantage.
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tek14
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1/30/2022 1:48am
He should but Roger called and he can pass whoops all together next race.
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CPR
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1/30/2022 1:50am
Alan Dove wrote:
https://www.amasupercross.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/2022-AMA-Supercross-Rulebook-FinalC.pdf [i]12. Failure to re-enter the track at a point as close as practical to the point at which the rider left the track; and in...
https://www.amasupercross.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/2022-AMA-Super…

12. Failure to re-enter the track at a point as close as practical to the point at which the rider left the track; and in so doing gaining an unfair advantage.

Did he re-enter the track as a point as close practical? I am not sure starting the whoops from where he fell would endanger other riders as per 4.15

4.15 On-Track Regulations a. No rider may ride in such a manner as to endanger life or limb of other riders, officials or the public


The regulation state, from my first read, that the unfair advantage is not gaining time over competitors, it's just not entering back at the closest practical point (4.15 means practical means safe) .

He voluntarily left the track, and then skipped a section. This is contravention of the rules in my view.
mx313 wrote:
No your interpretation of the rule is incorrect. 12. Failure to re-enter the track at a point as close as practical to the point at which...
No your interpretation of the rule is incorrect.

12. Failure to re-enter the track at a point as close as practical to the point at which the rider left the track; and in so doing gaining an unfair advantage.

That's not 2 key points that's just 1.
And in doing so.
The rule only applies if u make an advantage.
If u fail to re-enter the track at a point as close and don't gain an advantage it negates the whole rule.

U can ride whole sections along side the track as long as u don't make an advantage.
So if Webb had of stayed on the track and gone through the whoops, would he likely have been in front of, or behind the track position he obtained by choosing to ride alongside the track?
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Motofinne
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1/30/2022 1:56am
Well it's been a couple of hours since the main and the official results are up. So i guess not but that is complete and utter BS. He was on the track pointing in the right direction and chose to skip the most difficult obstacle on the track.

Should've gotten at least -1 spot in the results.
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USA
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1/30/2022 2:02am
Motofinne wrote:
Well it's been a couple of hours since the main and the official results are up. So i guess not but that is complete and utter...
Well it's been a couple of hours since the main and the official results are up. So i guess not but that is complete and utter BS. He was on the track pointing in the right direction and chose to skip the most difficult obstacle on the track.

Should've gotten at least -1 spot in the results.
Yep, that's cheating. There was no reason for him to skip the whoops other than to gain an advantage.

Hell, friese should have skipped the whoops the last two laps. If he just stayed in second, there wouldn't have been any reason for the AMA to dock him.
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Motofinne
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1/30/2022 2:05am Edited Date/Time 1/30/2022 2:06am
Motofinne wrote:
Well it's been a couple of hours since the main and the official results are up. So i guess not but that is complete and utter...
Well it's been a couple of hours since the main and the official results are up. So i guess not but that is complete and utter BS. He was on the track pointing in the right direction and chose to skip the most difficult obstacle on the track.

Should've gotten at least -1 spot in the results.
USA wrote:
Yep, that's cheating. There was no reason for him to skip the whoops other than to gain an advantage. Hell, friese should have skipped the whoops...
Yep, that's cheating. There was no reason for him to skip the whoops other than to gain an advantage.

Hell, friese should have skipped the whoops the last two laps. If he just stayed in second, there wouldn't have been any reason for the AMA to dock him.
Yup, cheated. I haven't checked Twitter and the industry peoples tweets but i would've imagined that at least Star Racing Yamaha would've protested Webb?

If i'm a team manager for any of the other top teams i would've done it.
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Alan Dove
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1/30/2022 2:09am
mx313 wrote:
No your interpretation of the rule is incorrect. 12. Failure to re-enter the track at a point as close as practical to the point at which...
No your interpretation of the rule is incorrect.

12. Failure to re-enter the track at a point as close as practical to the point at which the rider left the track; and in so doing gaining an unfair advantage.

That's not 2 key points that's just 1.
And in doing so.
The rule only applies if u make an advantage.
If u fail to re-enter the track at a point as close and don't gain an advantage it negates the whole rule.

U can ride whole sections along side the track as long as u don't make an advantage.
fair point
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USA
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1/30/2022 2:10am Edited Date/Time 1/30/2022 2:10am
Motofinne wrote:
Well it's been a couple of hours since the main and the official results are up. So i guess not but that is complete and utter...
Well it's been a couple of hours since the main and the official results are up. So i guess not but that is complete and utter BS. He was on the track pointing in the right direction and chose to skip the most difficult obstacle on the track.

Should've gotten at least -1 spot in the results.
USA wrote:
Yep, that's cheating. There was no reason for him to skip the whoops other than to gain an advantage. Hell, friese should have skipped the whoops...
Yep, that's cheating. There was no reason for him to skip the whoops other than to gain an advantage.

Hell, friese should have skipped the whoops the last two laps. If he just stayed in second, there wouldn't have been any reason for the AMA to dock him.
Motofinne wrote:
Yup, cheated. I haven't checked Twitter and the industry peoples tweets but i would've imagined that at least Star Racing Yamaha would've protested Webb? If i'm...
Yup, cheated. I haven't checked Twitter and the industry peoples tweets but i would've imagined that at least Star Racing Yamaha would've protested Webb?

If i'm a team manager for any of the other top teams i would've done it.
I cant find a difference between this incident and Savatgy's incident from 2018. Both riders crashed, got up, chose to skip a section, and continued with the race.

The only different is the ruling. Color me surprised, inconsistency from the AMA.
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mx313
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1/30/2022 2:10am
Alan Dove wrote:
https://www.amasupercross.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/2022-AMA-Supercross-Rulebook-FinalC.pdf [i]12. Failure to re-enter the track at a point as close as practical to the point at which the rider left the track; and in...
https://www.amasupercross.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/2022-AMA-Super…

12. Failure to re-enter the track at a point as close as practical to the point at which the rider left the track; and in so doing gaining an unfair advantage.

Did he re-enter the track as a point as close practical? I am not sure starting the whoops from where he fell would endanger other riders as per 4.15

4.15 On-Track Regulations a. No rider may ride in such a manner as to endanger life or limb of other riders, officials or the public


The regulation state, from my first read, that the unfair advantage is not gaining time over competitors, it's just not entering back at the closest practical point (4.15 means practical means safe) .

He voluntarily left the track, and then skipped a section. This is contravention of the rules in my view.
mx313 wrote:
No your interpretation of the rule is incorrect. 12. Failure to re-enter the track at a point as close as practical to the point at which...
No your interpretation of the rule is incorrect.

12. Failure to re-enter the track at a point as close as practical to the point at which the rider left the track; and in so doing gaining an unfair advantage.

That's not 2 key points that's just 1.
And in doing so.
The rule only applies if u make an advantage.
If u fail to re-enter the track at a point as close and don't gain an advantage it negates the whole rule.

U can ride whole sections along side the track as long as u don't make an advantage.
CPR wrote:
So if Webb had of stayed on the track and gone through the whoops, would he likely have been in front of, or behind the track...
So if Webb had of stayed on the track and gone through the whoops, would he likely have been in front of, or behind the track position he obtained by choosing to ride alongside the track?
Ama officials cannot guess or make predictions of a scenario. Who knows how quick webb would have got thru them. They can only use facts for rulings.
When webb started riding again. Wilson was only half way into the corner.
After the whoops Wilson was right on webb.
So facts show webb lost time in that section. So he did not gain an advantage.
Webb also rode in a slow and safe speed off track.
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Crush
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1/30/2022 2:14am
100% should be.

He was on the track when he crashed and remounted.

Voluntarily left the track to avoid the whoops.

From that starting position he’d have gone slow as hell through them and Deano would have completed the pass.

That’s gaining an advantage no matter how you cut it.
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