Interesting Traction Control Article

Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 5:26pm
Pretty interesting traction control article... They make it seem that traction control on a MX bike would require a bunch of extra sensors and it would require the rider to make a traction control input as well (on top of brakes, gas, clutch, and shifting)

The motoGP bikes control it with the ignition, meaning a SX bike would be coughing and sputtering the whole way around the track any time traction was lost.
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Cody24
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10/4/2010 2:12pm
Interesting idea... Not sure if I would want it on a moto track though.
Roscoe33
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10/4/2010 2:15pm
uh....It came stock on a KTM 3 years ago...???
peelout719
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10/4/2010 2:17pm
traction control?

just adjust the amount of lotion when you fap.

less for more traction and more for less traction.
smrscott
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10/4/2010 2:17pm
There probably would be traction control on MX bikes if it was legal for AMA Pro racing.

It would be possible to build in traction control that would only kick in during extreme tire spin. And the system could just retard the ignition and reduce fuel to avoid extreme tire spin. A computer could be set that under normal tire spin it would not kick in, yet in extreme tire spin, (exiting a slick muddy corner) it could kick in and help.

Bikes have had some sort of traction control: having two different ignition maps on the fly is a form of traction control. Some factory bikes had ignitions curves just for the start of the race then the rider would switch back to the standard curve.

Even now the computers in some bikes adjust depending on throttle position, RPM and gear selection to achieve the best power curve. The ignition mapping changes depending on the above factors. If they could factor in front and rear wheel speed it would be pretty easy to program in more features and changes to ignition and fuel.

But it would be another expense if it were legal for AMA racing. Wheel sensors front and rear are not allowed as far as I know

The Shop

Rooster
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10/4/2010 2:29pm
It wouldn't surprise me if Honda had found a way to get it on Short's bike. They could do a really stripped down version through the ignition just for the starts. A throttle position sensor and an ignition or fuel map mod to drop the rpms when they spike. Flip a switch on the bars as you round the first corner to go back to normal.
Hank_Thrill
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10/4/2010 2:34pm
Four strokes made riding a dirt bike much more simpler. Now we might as well just eliminate the skill known as "throttle control" from the sport...
2T42
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10/4/2010 2:38pm
WHAAT?
So wouldn't this completely suck out the last little bit of soul left in MX. With 4 strokes AND
traction control, any person who can sit in a seat and turn a handle grip can race MX and
win while still being 'safe'. Sounds like loads of fun.

I thought developing some riding skill and doing wheelies and burnouts was part of
what makes the sport so fun? May as well go ahead and require all off-road motorcycles
to have an electric starter and some idiot lights on a console to tell us when to take the
thing back to the dealership to pay a bunch of money for servicing and get this all over with.
And don’t forget the thumb throttle! Then the sport can be super safe and everyone can have
the right to ride. Yet another gadget to unnecessarily raise the cost of racing.
500guy
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10/4/2010 2:48pm
Read the rules, Traction control/ telemetry is against the rules both SX and MX

The factories already have data bikes with all the sensors and know what is going on, they can only manipulate it so much without breaking the rules,
offspring22
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10/4/2010 4:19pm
10/4/2010 4:55pm
the next big thing will be computer controlled suspension. Stamp it
Rooster
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10/4/2010 5:08pm
500guy wrote:
Read the rules, Traction control/ telemetry is against the rules both SX and MX The factories already have data bikes with all the sensors and know...
Read the rules, Traction control/ telemetry is against the rules both SX and MX

The factories already have data bikes with all the sensors and know what is going on, they can only manipulate it so much without breaking the rules,
Yeah, it was against the rules when Suzuki had it in AMA road racing too.

Doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Moto East Mag
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10/4/2010 5:10pm
You mean "throttle control"?
WhipMeister
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10/4/2010 5:33pm
Automatic clutch actuation makes more sense to me than engine management.
Jakes Dad
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10/4/2010 5:45pm
Almost 20 years ago in drag racing through clutch management. Wheelspin sensors and clutch engagement control, in drag racing I think it was the throwout bearing position was manipulated.
RACEGUY
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10/4/2010 5:57pm
Some engineer-types have also suggested that a traction control device would be one secret to getting 2-stroke MX bikes to apply the power to the ground more like 4-strokes.
JB 19
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10/4/2010 6:01pm
500guy wrote:
Read the rules, Traction control/ telemetry is against the rules both SX and MX The factories already have data bikes with all the sensors and know...
Read the rules, Traction control/ telemetry is against the rules both SX and MX

The factories already have data bikes with all the sensors and know what is going on, they can only manipulate it so much without breaking the rules,
The actual mechanics of what traction control is extremely difficult to define. Most tarmac motorsports have gave in and allowed traction control because it is impossible to figure out who is using it and who isn't.

AMA road racing went through this a few years ago with Suzuki. Everyone knew they had it because of the way the bikes sounded, but yet there was no speed sensor on the front wheel so nothing could be proved.......so the AMA just made it legal for everyone....as MotoGP and Formula 1 have done in the past.

I would think that motocross would be much more difficult to develop t/c because the wheels are in the air so often. (pre rev before landing, whoops, etc)

...........but there are some smart people out there so anything surely is possible.
wownd out
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10/4/2010 6:09pm
Wouldn't traction control freak out over bumps and whoops, How would it work when the bikes in the air? shit i don't want to not have control of the spinning rear wheel while in the air, what are they gonna put an altimeter on too?
TerryB
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10/4/2010 6:45pm
Rooster wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me if Honda had found a way to get it on Short's bike. They could do a really stripped down version through the...
It wouldn't surprise me if Honda had found a way to get it on Short's bike. They could do a really stripped down version through the ignition just for the starts. A throttle position sensor and an ignition or fuel map mod to drop the rpms when they spike. Flip a switch on the bars as you round the first corner to go back to normal.
Bingo.
TerryB
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10/4/2010 6:46pm
2T42 wrote:
WHAAT? So wouldn't this completely suck out the last little bit of soul left in MX. With 4 strokes AND traction control, any person who can...
WHAAT?
So wouldn't this completely suck out the last little bit of soul left in MX. With 4 strokes AND
traction control, any person who can sit in a seat and turn a handle grip can race MX and
win while still being 'safe'. Sounds like loads of fun.

I thought developing some riding skill and doing wheelies and burnouts was part of
what makes the sport so fun? May as well go ahead and require all off-road motorcycles
to have an electric starter and some idiot lights on a console to tell us when to take the
thing back to the dealership to pay a bunch of money for servicing and get this all over with.
And don’t forget the thumb throttle! Then the sport can be super safe and everyone can have
the right to ride. Yet another gadget to unnecessarily raise the cost of racing.
...and, I agree.
TerryB
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10/4/2010 7:00pm Edited Date/Time 10/4/2010 7:03pm
RACEGUY wrote:
Some engineer-types have also suggested that a traction control device would be one secret to getting 2-stroke MX bikes to apply the power to the ground...
Some engineer-types have also suggested that a traction control device would be one secret to getting 2-stroke MX bikes to apply the power to the ground more like 4-strokes.
I don't want to hijack this into a 2 vs 4 thread, but...



I wasn't thinking "traction control" for the 2-strokes, but more "rpm" control. That, to me, is what makes the 4-stroke easier to ride. You don't need the same level of talent or proficiency to keep the 4 in the meat of the torque curve. This could be achieved with a lightweight CVT in a 2-stroke. Think scooter, or snowmobile. The clutch could be tuned to keep the motor spinning in an ideal rpm range for max torque, or tuned for peak hp for higher speed stuff



A 2-stroke that never falls off the pipe.Smile (Wasn't that a Snoopy "Happiness is..." t-shirt?)


Trent179
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10/4/2010 7:10pm
wownd out wrote:
Wouldn't traction control freak out over bumps and whoops, How would it work when the bikes in the air? shit i don't want to not have...
Wouldn't traction control freak out over bumps and whoops, How would it work when the bikes in the air? shit i don't want to not have control of the spinning rear wheel while in the air, what are they gonna put an altimeter on too?
No shit.... I find myself panic revving a lot. What if that thing kicked in on the face of a jump! Screw technology.
Trent179
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10/4/2010 7:14pm
And.... Sometimes a rider wants to spin the back tire anyways...
sdfog1
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10/4/2010 7:18pm
wownd out wrote:
Wouldn't traction control freak out over bumps and whoops, How would it work when the bikes in the air? shit i don't want to not have...
Wouldn't traction control freak out over bumps and whoops, How would it work when the bikes in the air? shit i don't want to not have control of the spinning rear wheel while in the air, what are they gonna put an altimeter on too?
They could have a sensor that senses when the suspension is fully decompressed or something like that.
2T42
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10/4/2010 7:50pm Edited Date/Time 10/4/2010 7:53pm
Is this conversation seriously happening? I hope I am too old to ride and in a nursing home before
all this comes around...or I could just stick a fork in my eye right now.

One thing I always appreciated about MX was that ANY MONKEY could NOT do it. So now any monkey
with more money than the next can win? I am going to go pratice stabbing myself in the eyeball. I hope
I have terrible aim. Maybe I will have to wait for "automatic centralized mass eyebal indicator sensing
telemetry dual twice pipe double displacement easier to stab your own eyeball because it's now all of
a sudden your right to" devices are invented?
Hank_Thrill
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10/4/2010 10:21pm
the next big thing will be computer controlled suspension. Stamp it
I've actually been thinking about this...
I totally see it as inevitable, technology wise.
I guess whether it becomes legalized is a different story.

good post!
Mike D
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10/4/2010 10:48pm
[url=http://www.hindawi.com/journals/es/2009/161373.html]Pretty interesting traction control article...[/url] They make it seem that traction control on a MX bike would require a bunch of extra sensors and it would...
Pretty interesting traction control article... They make it seem that traction control on a MX bike would require a bunch of extra sensors and it would require the rider to make a traction control input as well (on top of brakes, gas, clutch, and shifting)

The motoGP bikes control it with the ignition, meaning a SX bike would be coughing and sputtering the whole way around the track any time traction was lost.
seems like youve been in eroupe too long............
the_wood109
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10/4/2010 11:07pm Edited Date/Time 10/4/2010 11:08pm






This is roadracing, too. I don't think there would be any benefit in motocross, besides (maybe)starts.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I read a while back about F1 experimenting with active computerized suspension that works based on where the bumps are on the track.
bvm111
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10/4/2010 11:43pm
every motorcycle sold since they were developed has come with a traction control device.... its operated with the lever on the left side of the handlebar... i think it is called a clutch or something like that!!!!
the_wood109
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10/5/2010 12:04am Edited Date/Time 10/5/2010 12:05am
bvm111 wrote:
every motorcycle sold since they were developed has come with a traction control device.... its operated with the lever on the left side of the handlebar...
every motorcycle sold since they were developed has come with a traction control device.... its operated with the lever on the left side of the handlebar... i think it is called a clutch or something like that!!!!
True in motocross,



The first few bikes I've had on the track are: '00 R1 (130 or so hp) with exhaust and jet kit on a race track...that bike was manageable...then an '02 R6 (105 maybe), this bike was fun.





It wasn't until I rode the '05 R1 with a full exhaust and a power commander (probably about 165-175hp) that I realized this would probably help in road racing. I was pretty fast on the R6, but when you have injection and raw power...it starts getting a bit scary with just throttle control. At summit point, the bike would just light the tire up in 3rd gear (which is a decent track that isn't so tight.)



Superbikes are 220hp or so and MotoGP bikes are 260hp or so.



I think that motocross has too many variables (such as bumps and ruts that change) to implement a traction control that benefits the rider, and that the adjustments between each moto....let alone each track, would just be insane.



Either way, its all opinion on my part...check out that Mladin video about TC, though.
ando
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10/5/2010 3:18am
2T42 wrote:
WHAAT? So wouldn't this completely suck out the last little bit of soul left in MX. With 4 strokes AND traction control, any person who can...
WHAAT?
So wouldn't this completely suck out the last little bit of soul left in MX. With 4 strokes AND
traction control, any person who can sit in a seat and turn a handle grip can race MX and
win while still being 'safe'. Sounds like loads of fun.

I thought developing some riding skill and doing wheelies and burnouts was part of
what makes the sport so fun? May as well go ahead and require all off-road motorcycles
to have an electric starter and some idiot lights on a console to tell us when to take the
thing back to the dealership to pay a bunch of money for servicing and get this all over with.
And don’t forget the thumb throttle! Then the sport can be super safe and everyone can have
the right to ride. Yet another gadget to unnecessarily raise the cost of racing.
TerryB wrote:
...and, I agree.
Four strokes make it that much easier? You guys really need to lay off the same old stuff.

What are your thoughts on disc brakes, long travel suspension and powervalves? They all made riding a motocross bike easier, can't have been too good for the sport.

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