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Edited Date/Time
1/27/2012 2:13pm
What is Holley smoking?? Anyone catch his comment on the huge difference between "factory tires" and what the privateers use? 
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I can make my own tires and use them
There's no spec tire rule
I can make my own tires and use them
[b:57l9k3mc]There's no spec tire rule[/b:57l9k3mc][/quote:57l9k3mc]
There are specs for knob size and spacing, etc.
Remember The Jammer created the rules by running a paddle tire in the mud and smoking everyboby. It was awsome to see Jimmy Weinert jumping past those guys in the muck.
I think it doesn't matter as much outdoors, it's only an issue for packed, perfectly groomed supercross tracks. Another story goes that RC used D756s in every outdoor round.
I think it doesn't matter as much outdoors, it's only an issue for packed, perfectly groomed supercross tracks. Another story goes that RC used D756s in every outdoor round.[/quote:2ccely84]The version I had is that they copied the Bridgestone to a T. When he tested the Honda at Steel City they even flew handle bars out there from CA same day to find the bend he liked with the new bike. Must be nice
Sometimes there's no rational reason for some of the changes, too. I remember '01, Bobby Bonds had his bike set up with a rear sprocket one tooth larger than normal - at Unadilla, probably the fastest track on the circuit. His mechanic was talking about it on TV and he said, "That's not for the track, that's just for Bobby." Why gear your bike lower at a fast track? Because that's what he liked that week...
the 745 is what they ran maybe a year or two ago but even then it was probably a different carcass and compound. Bridgestone is pretty well known for having what is considered to be the best SX tire out there. but it's nothing like any of the tires that the public can buy in compound, carcass and tread pattern. If you see a closeup of JBS's bike sometime right before or after a race take a look at the tires. they won't look like what you are riding from bstone. ditto for dunlop with riders like Factory connection. in SX there is a major difference. it's all about how the tires handle the whoops. thats the main thing the tire development is geared towards, in most sx races they are won and lost in the whoops for the top riders (top 5).
in MX, it's a lot different. Most of the tire companies are pretty equal when it comes to the outdoors. There is an AMA ruling that you can't run a paddle tire, but that's about the limit of the rules. other than that, it's wide open, there's no "production tire" rule. The FIM has a more stringent tire rule for off road racing (not MX) with a max height of 13mm on the rear knob. that's the tires you see at things like the World Enduro Championship and other off road racing.
as far as I know Michelin and Pirelli are the only two tire companies running production tires in SX. even they will use their top riders to develop new tires, but if they find something that works they put it into production. But at least any privateer can go to the rigs and buy pretty much whatever their top riders are running.
[/quote:csf93g1o]
Yeah, but you don't see a whole lot of top riders running Pirelli or Michelin in SX, so that tells you something right there.
Nothing more, nothing less
Yeah, but you don't see a whole lot of top riders running Pirelli or Michelin in SX, so that tells you something right there.[/quote:8a5719zn]
actually a Pirelli rider got 4th overall in the Supercross class (SX1!) last weekend, Jake Marsack. I know the past couple of years they've gotten quite a few podiums, and with the riders they have they've done pretty well. Michelin has cut back a lot the past two years so they haven't had the talent pool as much as the others. do they have the tires to get on the podium? my guess is yes. it's just that most riders are familiar with Dunlop and most near the top would like to run Bridgestone but unless you get on a team that's already sponsored by bstone, you aren't getting their "A" tires. Go to Europe or Canada and you'll see the majority of the riders on Pirelli. but even there, Bridgestone and Dunlop are making inroads.
same thing works in AMA road racing. Dunlop dominates in Superbike, but Pirelli is making inroads in the other classes. it takes a long time to build confidence in a product when you are the new guy on the block. In some countries, Pirelli dominates local racing, in some Michelin (france), in some Dunlop (UK and US). they all make good tires, you just have to make the right choice when it comes to racing, and have confidence in your tires. plus what works for SX probably has no relevance to anything 98% of the people ride. if you look at outdoor racing, that's going to be closer to what the general public is going to be riding day in and day out. and there the tires are much more even across the board. then it comes down to traction, durability and setup (and cost).
how many people change tires for track conditions? if you aren't doing that you really don't have any idea what you are missing.
Pit Row
Nothing more, nothing less[/quote:17hwjmv0]
I agree, it's just that Michelin and Pirelli actually do sell the tires they developed for SX to the public. Michelin debuted it's HP4 a year or so ago, and Pirelli introduced their MXH about the same time. both were developed specifically for SX and blue groove/hard pack tracks. well, at least for some tracks.
but development at the top level always (eventually) improves the whole tire at some point. it just takes some companies longer. and sometimes you get some real development and R&D. too bad tubeless didn't work for offroad/mx/sx. lol
and a lot of time being the underdog is difficult. if you are the only one with a different bike/tire/suspension, the rider will always complain about whatever is different if they don't perform. I guess you could say that with something like KTM. everyone always said that the linkless suspension didn't work in SX. I don't remember if Mike Alessi complained about it, but he's now on the suzuki that RC seemed to make work fine and it's just not working for him. but then again, he is more of an outdoor guy, so what's the point? the right rider will make whatever combination work regardless. I'm guessing that you could put RC on a stock CRF450 with Pirelli's and he'd still run rings around all the riders on the track just because he can. At the end of the day it's always the rider, and not the hardware. It helps a bit but mostly it's the rider. unless you are Rossi on Michelins.
I can make my own tires and use them
[b:xxb8bznf]There's no spec tire rule[/b:xxb8bznf][/quote:xxb8bznf]
There are specs for knob size and spacing, etc.
Remember The Jammer created the rules by running a paddle tire in the mud and smoking everyboby. It was awsome to see Jimmy Weinert jumping past those guys in the muck.
That was a sand SX in I think it was Florida. He was also wearing a neck collar.
The spec the AMA came up with is just a maximum knob spacing and hight but pretty much anything goes other than that. And of course no paddle tires.
[img:xxb8bznf]https://www.gearwire.com/media/gg-may92-em-jammer-huge.jpg[/img:xxb8bznf]
That was a sand SX in I think it was Florida. He was also wearing a neck collar.
The spec the AMA came up with is just a maximum knob spacing and hight but pretty much anything goes other than that. And of course no paddle tires.
[/quote:lvyidqkl]
Daytona. I wanna say '78?
top riders get things the general public doesnt get, including tires.
That was a sand SX in I think it was Florida. He was also wearing a neck collar.
The spec the AMA came up with is just a maximum knob spacing and hight but pretty much anything goes other than that. And of course no paddle tires.
[/quote:r43328st]
Daytona. I wanna say '78?[/quote:r43328st]
It was at Oakland Ca SX.
top riders get things the general public doesnt get, including tires.[/quote:1ig20s1m]
A guy that knows what he's talking about on MD! HOF! Yup I have ran those tires and they don't last long enough to be worth the effort for a normal guy, unless you just like changing tires every time you ride.
Yes Dave, while Speedy's post was informative, J2one2 has hands on knowledge. In my opinion, without proper testing, it would be hard to prove which one knows a lot more.
ANd anyone can buy them at Rocky MTN or any other place.
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