Bubba Goat Effect

Without RC, James would have won the 06/07 seasons uncontested... 08 Reedy was somewhat better, 09 probably goes the same... After that James' head and the blue bike colluded for an awful lot of dirt naps...

Not sure it makes a difference to RC, he won regardless and there is really only one series that he maybe wasn't the best guy at the end of it, 03... Reed lost his mechanical advantage and RC gained one next time they met and held it till he quit. Chad was easily the slowest of the three to adapt to four strokes so I don't think he'd have beat RC without James there.

No four strokes? Maybe different.

Might be right about 06/07 speed, but RV in 13 was fucking ridiculous... The Dungey club can piss and moan about lost titles in 11 (Reed was better haha) but RV was no doubt building and by 13 he was so good it was clinical. He'd have at least given RC/JS all they could handle. I still go back and watch a few races that from that year and it was a terrible year for Reed!

It goes back further than the Pros. They challenged each other as kids. I’ve personallly watched them burn multiple tanks of gas for hours pushing each other at Crooms and Dade City

Crush wrote:

Without RC, James would have won the 06/07 seasons uncontested... 08 Reedy was somewhat better, 09 probably goes the same... ...more

Crush wrote:

Without RC, James would have won the 06/07 seasons uncontested... 08 Reedy was somewhat better, 09 probably goes the same... After that James' head and the blue bike colluded for an awful lot of dirt naps...

Not sure it makes a difference to RC, he won regardless and there is really only one series that he maybe wasn't the best guy at the end of it, 03... Reed lost his mechanical advantage and RC gained one next time they met and held it till he quit. Chad was easily the slowest of the three to adapt to four strokes so I don't think he'd have beat RC without James there.

No four strokes? Maybe different.

Might be right about 06/07 speed, but RV in 13 was fucking ridiculous... The Dungey club can piss and moan about lost titles in 11 (Reed was better haha) but RV was no doubt building and by 13 he was so good it was clinical. He'd have at least given RC/JS all they could handle. I still go back and watch a few races that from that year and it was a terrible year for Reed!

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My angle/thought on Ricky was that maybe he would have been over it sooner without James to chase and retired earlier. No doubt that he could/would have amassed the numbers without Bubba around. Hell he could have 200 wins!

If the sport had stayed 2-strokes, bubba would have beaten Ricky a lot more than he did.

Ricky was already "RC" back on 60cc bikes. He dominated on 60's 80's, 125, etc all through the amateur ranks.

James and RC never raced in the same class. RC was older and always a few classes ahead. RC was chasing guys like Reynard, Windham, etc... and even they were a few classes ahead of RC...

The first time James and RC actually raced a meaningful race against each other would have started in 2005 when both were in the 250 SX and 250 MX classes. (now the 450 class)

By that point in time, RC was already a multi time 250 SX and MX champion.

Do to their age differences and being in different classes I don't believe there is any correlation that one "pushed" the other to greatness.

RC was driven from within. It doesn't matter who he raced.


James may be a different story, but I think most of his career was also about himself. Ricky may have been a target for him early in James' 250/450F career, but really most of his racing life was about going as fast as he could, not about beating someone else.

Flip109 wrote:

If the sport had stayed 2-strokes, bubba would have beaten Ricky a lot more than he did.

Flip109 wrote:

If the sport had stayed 2-strokes, bubba would have beaten Ricky a lot more than he did.

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If, if,if , if. You can play the if game since this sport started. If rc didn't retire Stewart would not have any outdoor 450 titles.

Flip109 wrote:

If the sport had stayed 2-strokes, bubba would have beaten Ricky a lot more than he did.

Flip109 wrote:

If the sport had stayed 2-strokes, bubba would have beaten Ricky a lot more than he did.

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I think reed would have beat both of them he was so smooth on a 2 stroke

Flip109 wrote:

If the sport had stayed 2-strokes, bubba would have beaten Ricky a lot more than he did.

Flip109 wrote:

If the sport had stayed 2-strokes, bubba would have beaten Ricky a lot more than he did.

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mxb2 wrote:

If, if,if , if. You can play the if game since this sport started. If rc didn't retire Stewart would not have any outdoor 450 ...more

mxb2 wrote:

If, if,if , if. You can play the if game since this sport started. If rc didn't retire Stewart would not have any outdoor 450 titles.

...more

GAWD DAMN DUDE! Just copy/paste a disclaimer saying "I fuckin hate James Stewart and he suxed at racing MX/SX" and post it in every James Stewart post! Geezus! you got a hard on for the dude!

Flip109 wrote:

If the sport had stayed 2-strokes, bubba would have beaten Ricky a lot more than he did.

Flip109 wrote:

If the sport had stayed 2-strokes, bubba would have beaten Ricky a lot more than he did.

...more

mxb2 wrote:

If, if,if , if. You can play the if game since this sport started. If rc didn't retire Stewart would not have any outdoor 450 ...more

mxb2 wrote:

If, if,if , if. You can play the if game since this sport started. If rc didn't retire Stewart would not have any outdoor 450 titles.

...more

Stamp it.

Flip109 wrote:

If the sport had stayed 2-strokes, bubba would have beaten Ricky a lot more than he did.

Flip109 wrote:

If the sport had stayed 2-strokes, bubba would have beaten Ricky a lot more than he did.

...more

mxb2 wrote:

If, if,if , if. You can play the if game since this sport started. If rc didn't retire Stewart would not have any outdoor 450 ...more

mxb2 wrote:

If, if,if , if. You can play the if game since this sport started. If rc didn't retire Stewart would not have any outdoor 450 titles.

...more

I usually don’t play the “if” game. But I really believe in that one! Even though it’s not a very popular opinion. Really nothing JS7 is popular these days on here seems like. That kid was super special on a smoker.

Flip109 wrote:

If the sport had stayed 2-strokes, bubba would have beaten Ricky a lot more than he did.

Flip109 wrote:

If the sport had stayed 2-strokes, bubba would have beaten Ricky a lot more than he did.

...more

mxb2 wrote:

If, if,if , if. You can play the if game since this sport started. If rc didn't retire Stewart would not have any outdoor 450 ...more

mxb2 wrote:

If, if,if , if. You can play the if game since this sport started. If rc didn't retire Stewart would not have any outdoor 450 titles.

...more

rcm406 wrote:

GAWD DAMN DUDE! Just copy/paste a disclaimer saying "I fuckin hate James Stewart and he suxed at racing MX/SX" and post it in ...more

rcm406 wrote:

GAWD DAMN DUDE! Just copy/paste a disclaimer saying "I fuckin hate James Stewart and he suxed at racing MX/SX" and post it in every James Stewart post! Geezus! you got a hard on for the dude!

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Sounds like you do. How would I hate someone I don't know. Why do you love someone you don't know. Weird.

mxb2 wrote:

If, if,if , if. You can play the if game since this sport started. If rc didn't retire Stewart would not have any outdoor 450 ...more

mxb2 wrote:

If, if,if , if. You can play the if game since this sport started. If rc didn't retire Stewart would not have any outdoor 450 titles.

...more

rcm406 wrote:

GAWD DAMN DUDE! Just copy/paste a disclaimer saying "I fuckin hate James Stewart and he suxed at racing MX/SX" and post it in ...more

rcm406 wrote:

GAWD DAMN DUDE! Just copy/paste a disclaimer saying "I fuckin hate James Stewart and he suxed at racing MX/SX" and post it in every James Stewart post! Geezus! you got a hard on for the dude!

...more

mxb2 wrote:

Sounds like you do. How would I hate someone I don't know. Why do you love someone you don't know. Weird.

mxb2 wrote:

Sounds like you do. How would I hate someone I don't know. Why do you love someone you don't know. Weird.

...more

You've been here for 7 years saying the same negative shit about James over and over and over! It's pathetic you spend so much time and effort trying to tear him down every chance you get! And for someone you don't even know. SAD really

rcm406 wrote:

GAWD DAMN DUDE! Just copy/paste a disclaimer saying "I fuckin hate James Stewart and he suxed at racing MX/SX" and post it in ...more

rcm406 wrote:

GAWD DAMN DUDE! Just copy/paste a disclaimer saying "I fuckin hate James Stewart and he suxed at racing MX/SX" and post it in every James Stewart post! Geezus! you got a hard on for the dude!

...more

mxb2 wrote:

Sounds like you do. How would I hate someone I don't know. Why do you love someone you don't know. Weird.

mxb2 wrote:

Sounds like you do. How would I hate someone I don't know. Why do you love someone you don't know. Weird.

...more

rcm406 wrote:

You've been here for 7 years saying the same negative shit about James over and over and over! It's pathetic you spend so much ...more

rcm406 wrote:

You've been here for 7 years saying the same negative shit about James over and over and over! It's pathetic you spend so much time and effort trying to tear him down every chance you get! And for someone you don't even know. SAD really

...more

Even more pathetic, you defending a total stranger that could give 2 shits about you. Don't like my posts scroll,and don't respond . Simple.

RC retiring was a worst thing ever for Stewart. RC was what drove Stewart and then he was gone.

kongols wrote:

RC retiring was a worst thing ever for Stewart. RC was what drove Stewart and then he was gone.

kongols wrote:

RC retiring was a worst thing ever for Stewart. RC was what drove Stewart and then he was gone.

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X2

mxb2 wrote:

Sounds like you do. How would I hate someone I don't know. Why do you love someone you don't know. Weird.

mxb2 wrote:

Sounds like you do. How would I hate someone I don't know. Why do you love someone you don't know. Weird.

...more

rcm406 wrote:

You've been here for 7 years saying the same negative shit about James over and over and over! It's pathetic you spend so much ...more

rcm406 wrote:

You've been here for 7 years saying the same negative shit about James over and over and over! It's pathetic you spend so much time and effort trying to tear him down every chance you get! And for someone you don't even know. SAD really

...more

mxb2 wrote:

Even more pathetic, you defending a total stranger that could give 2 shits about you. Don't like my posts scroll,and don't ...more

mxb2 wrote:

Even more pathetic, you defending a total stranger that could give 2 shits about you. Don't like my posts scroll,and don't respond . Simple.

...more

So predictable, everyone here knows what you're all about! I don't need to say more! #pitifulloseratlife

rcm406 wrote:

You've been here for 7 years saying the same negative shit about James over and over and over! It's pathetic you spend so much ...more

rcm406 wrote:

You've been here for 7 years saying the same negative shit about James over and over and over! It's pathetic you spend so much time and effort trying to tear him down every chance you get! And for someone you don't even know. SAD really

...more

mxb2 wrote:

Even more pathetic, you defending a total stranger that could give 2 shits about you. Don't like my posts scroll,and don't ...more

mxb2 wrote:

Even more pathetic, you defending a total stranger that could give 2 shits about you. Don't like my posts scroll,and don't respond . Simple.

...more

rcm406 wrote:

So predictable, everyone here knows what you're all about! I don't need to say more! #pitifulloseratlife

rcm406 wrote:

So predictable, everyone here knows what you're all about! I don't need to say more! #pitifulloseratlife

...more

Same as you , posting the same. Lmao. Keep following me around and responding. Counting my history on vital.Sad.

mxb2 wrote:

Even more pathetic, you defending a total stranger that could give 2 shits about you. Don't like my posts scroll,and don't ...more

mxb2 wrote:

Even more pathetic, you defending a total stranger that could give 2 shits about you. Don't like my posts scroll,and don't respond . Simple.

...more

rcm406 wrote:

So predictable, everyone here knows what you're all about! I don't need to say more! #pitifulloseratlife

rcm406 wrote:

So predictable, everyone here knows what you're all about! I don't need to say more! #pitifulloseratlife

...more

mxb2 wrote:

Same as you , posting the same. Lmao. Keep following me around and responding. Counting my history on vital.Sad.

mxb2 wrote:

Same as you , posting the same. Lmao. Keep following me around and responding. Counting my history on vital.Sad.

...more

Yeah, i'm sorry mxb2.. and i'm not the only one who sees your shit,, and yes. It is Sad.. year after year..

rcm406 wrote:

So predictable, everyone here knows what you're all about! I don't need to say more! #pitifulloseratlife

rcm406 wrote:

So predictable, everyone here knows what you're all about! I don't need to say more! #pitifulloseratlife

...more

mxb2 wrote:

Same as you , posting the same. Lmao. Keep following me around and responding. Counting my history on vital.Sad.

mxb2 wrote:

Same as you , posting the same. Lmao. Keep following me around and responding. Counting my history on vital.Sad.

...more

rosebud441 wrote:

Yeah, i'm sorry mxb2.. and i'm not the only one who sees your shit,, and yes. It is Sad.. year after year..

rosebud441 wrote:

Yeah, i'm sorry mxb2.. and i'm not the only one who sees your shit,, and yes. It is Sad.. year after year..

...more

Lol, stay in non-moto. I am flattered you follow me and keep posting. It's a public forum. I hope you are on his payroll. Sad if you are a grown adult.

kongols wrote:

RC retiring was a worst thing ever for Stewart. RC was what drove Stewart and then he was gone.

kongols wrote:

RC retiring was a worst thing ever for Stewart. RC was what drove Stewart and then he was gone.

...more

I feel this is the case. RC gave Bubba someone to train for and try to beat. Once RC retired, Bubba won and became part time and thought he could win on same ole thing as last weekend, when he won. If he kept pushing like RC was there, he'd have a lot more championships.

Now if 4-strokes never came into the picture... who knows. I think James' career would be vastly different.

kongols wrote:

RC retiring was a worst thing ever for Stewart. RC was what drove Stewart and then he was gone.

kongols wrote:

RC retiring was a worst thing ever for Stewart. RC was what drove Stewart and then he was gone.

...more

honda341 wrote:

I feel this is the case. RC gave Bubba someone to train for and try to beat. Once RC retired, Bubba won and became part time ...more

honda341 wrote:

I feel this is the case. RC gave Bubba someone to train for and try to beat. Once RC retired, Bubba won and became part time and thought he could win on same ole thing as last weekend, when he won. If he kept pushing like RC was there, he'd have a lot more championships.

Now if 4-strokes never came into the picture... who knows. I think James' career would be vastly different.

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I'm not so sure I agree with this. He snagged up Aldon after RC retired.

At their level of talent and commitment I don't think it made much difference in either's ambition, though I am certain each used the other for motivation. They'd each have found some other motivation if the other hadn't existed.

That said, I've always thought Travis could have messed up our impressions of both guys had he stayed healthy.

But in the end you look at all three and see a pretty broad differences in how talent, ambition, and motivation were balanced in their respective personalities. And maybe the difference the people around you influencing you can make.

motomike137 wrote:

My angle/thought on Ricky was that maybe he would have been over it sooner without James to chase and retired earlier. No ...more

motomike137 wrote:

My angle/thought on Ricky was that maybe he would have been over it sooner without James to chase and retired earlier. No doubt that he could/would have amassed the numbers without Bubba around. Hell he could have 200 wins!

...more

Not sure... He said when he did his ACL in 04 he signed his Zook contract for the 2 plus possible extension which he took as a part time... and as it was, how many wins did James actually remove from him? Think one or two outdoor races and however many SX races... two SXs in 05? Not sure how many in 06, maybe 8? Six in 07?

I think they both pushed each other to some incredible things. Both at times were so far ahead of the competition , it was amazing to watch. I think common sense could say , that they both made each better than they were before they raced against each other. We'll be watching highlight reels of those guys for many years to come , I know that much!

motomike137 wrote:

Christmas Bench Racing Fodder

Where would one be without the other? Would Ricky have risen to the same heights and win totals ...more

motomike137 wrote:

Christmas Bench Racing Fodder

Where would one be without the other? Would Ricky have risen to the same heights and win totals without James to make him push ever higher? And conversely how high would James have set the bar without RC to climb over? I realize Reed was a factor but I always saw him as just a percentage point or two below the other two. I watched that 2007 Orlando SX that again just the other day and attended Red Bud that summer. I still contend to this day that NOBODY has gone any faster than those two in 2006-7.

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I was at 07 Red Bud as well, unbelievable racing and raw speed. I think the sport has progressed though. The post RC and JS era has been setback by injuries to a great degree. Top of my mind, RV leg and knees, Canard, Kenny, Tomac at Lakewood. Lots of these injuries probably effected the record book to a great degree. Dungey was the only one to mostly figure it out, and still got bit a few times in big series.

I bet they are riding a bit faster now, despite the risk of life and limb, bikes are better and riders are just as talented. I think the talent pool the last few years has been better than RC days overall. Always hard to compare generations!

RC was a phenomenon, to stay healthy, going that fast, for that long.