USGP , Here is a clue on why no top Americans race.

tp4
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4/25/2011 8:52pm
I think the usgp is a cool race from days gone passed @ Carlsbad to now GH..it was all ways in my mind us aganist them to Win was an honor.
jmc2
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4/25/2011 9:02pm
Just wanted to throw some old Carlsbad photos in here...



HuskyEd
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4/25/2011 9:03pm
Mstock wrote:
So with the response in this thread from the core US fans of the sport, the US media, and fact that US racers only race to...
So with the response in this thread from the core US fans of the sport, the US media, and fact that US racers only race to get paid, this will be the end of the USGP. At least youthstream tried and Glen Helen will join Namur and Leirop on the list of historic tracks that added to the history of the sport. Thanks for the memories.
JCRF217 wrote:
there are many more tracks that have gone down in history. Life will go one and no one will care in a few years there is...
there are many more tracks that have gone down in history. Life will go one and no one will care in a few years there is a pala now and i think it is better than GH anyway.
WORCSRacer wrote:
HOF comment. You are exactly what I hate about so many of the people that surround this sport. Plain old ignorant. You have no sense for...
HOF comment. You are exactly what I hate about so many of the people that surround this sport. Plain old ignorant. You have no sense for the scope of what goes on behind the scenes from a business stand point. What type of questions get asked at sponsor meetings? I.e. Let's see the FIM held a race at GH (which sits in the heart of American Motocross) and no one came? I thought these were loyal rabid and motivated fans? Sorry but I've got a proposal from the grilled cheese festival in LA and they will have attendence of 25 to 30K over the weekend, I think I'll put my money there instead...

If the core of this sport doesn't support a an event like the USGP then the fans like you, the riders and the US operations of the factories deserve what the get which will be NOTHING. All the "in the know" posters on here think a rider shouldn't race the USGP because they aren't paid to; here's a thought how about doing it to build your personal brand? How about doing it because your MAIN EFFIN SPONSOR put up huge money to be the series title sponsor? How about doing it because racing motorcycles is what you are freaking paid to do? How about doing it because you want to keep racing motorcycles in the future? Worried about getting hurt? Any rider who takes this craft seriously will be riding with intensity that during the week anyway why not put themselves in a game situation?

Bottom line: This isn't about Glen Helen. Its not about the FIM or MX Sports or the riders. Its about whether the MX community will supports what it supposedly loves by attending events like the USGP so there will be a place for this sport in the future.
WORCSRacer that is probably one of the best posts I've read on this topic. Very well said!!Wink
Gio
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Location
Pasadena, CA, USA
4/25/2011 9:21pm
Mstock wrote:
So with the response in this thread from the core US fans of the sport, the US media, and fact that US racers only race to...
So with the response in this thread from the core US fans of the sport, the US media, and fact that US racers only race to get paid, this will be the end of the USGP. At least youthstream tried and Glen Helen will join Namur and Leirop on the list of historic tracks that added to the history of the sport. Thanks for the memories.
JCRF217 wrote:
there are many more tracks that have gone down in history. Life will go one and no one will care in a few years there is...
there are many more tracks that have gone down in history. Life will go one and no one will care in a few years there is a pala now and i think it is better than GH anyway.
WORCSRacer wrote:
HOF comment. You are exactly what I hate about so many of the people that surround this sport. Plain old ignorant. You have no sense for...
HOF comment. You are exactly what I hate about so many of the people that surround this sport. Plain old ignorant. You have no sense for the scope of what goes on behind the scenes from a business stand point. What type of questions get asked at sponsor meetings? I.e. Let's see the FIM held a race at GH (which sits in the heart of American Motocross) and no one came? I thought these were loyal rabid and motivated fans? Sorry but I've got a proposal from the grilled cheese festival in LA and they will have attendence of 25 to 30K over the weekend, I think I'll put my money there instead...

If the core of this sport doesn't support a an event like the USGP then the fans like you, the riders and the US operations of the factories deserve what the get which will be NOTHING. All the "in the know" posters on here think a rider shouldn't race the USGP because they aren't paid to; here's a thought how about doing it to build your personal brand? How about doing it because your MAIN EFFIN SPONSOR put up huge money to be the series title sponsor? How about doing it because racing motorcycles is what you are freaking paid to do? How about doing it because you want to keep racing motorcycles in the future? Worried about getting hurt? Any rider who takes this craft seriously will be riding with intensity that during the week anyway why not put themselves in a game situation?

Bottom line: This isn't about Glen Helen. Its not about the FIM or MX Sports or the riders. Its about whether the MX community will supports what it supposedly loves by attending events like the USGP so there will be a place for this sport in the future.
I agree that money should not be the sole driver in the decision making process, however, just as I am not going to budget the time and money to attend 3 motocross races in 3 weekends, I do not expect RV to rush his switch from SX to MX for no money.

As for what DC and GL can do together and the benefits that such cooperation would bring to the sport, look at the benefits of the cooperation between Feld and MXSports. Just a few years ago some people considered the Nationals to be almost a drag on the teams and the sport; however, somebody at Feld must have realized (upon suggestion of somebody at MX-Sports?) that the future (and the profitability) of SX would have benefit from a strong MX scene, and now Feld and MX-SPorts cooperate and Feld even sponsors the American team at the MXdN!

The Shop

jmar
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Location
Oklahoma City, OK, USA
4/25/2011 9:25pm
JCRF217 wrote:
there are many more tracks that have gone down in history. Life will go one and no one will care in a few years there is...
there are many more tracks that have gone down in history. Life will go one and no one will care in a few years there is a pala now and i think it is better than GH anyway.
WORCSRacer wrote:
HOF comment. You are exactly what I hate about so many of the people that surround this sport. Plain old ignorant. You have no sense for...
HOF comment. You are exactly what I hate about so many of the people that surround this sport. Plain old ignorant. You have no sense for the scope of what goes on behind the scenes from a business stand point. What type of questions get asked at sponsor meetings? I.e. Let's see the FIM held a race at GH (which sits in the heart of American Motocross) and no one came? I thought these were loyal rabid and motivated fans? Sorry but I've got a proposal from the grilled cheese festival in LA and they will have attendence of 25 to 30K over the weekend, I think I'll put my money there instead...

If the core of this sport doesn't support a an event like the USGP then the fans like you, the riders and the US operations of the factories deserve what the get which will be NOTHING. All the "in the know" posters on here think a rider shouldn't race the USGP because they aren't paid to; here's a thought how about doing it to build your personal brand? How about doing it because your MAIN EFFIN SPONSOR put up huge money to be the series title sponsor? How about doing it because racing motorcycles is what you are freaking paid to do? How about doing it because you want to keep racing motorcycles in the future? Worried about getting hurt? Any rider who takes this craft seriously will be riding with intensity that during the week anyway why not put themselves in a game situation?

Bottom line: This isn't about Glen Helen. Its not about the FIM or MX Sports or the riders. Its about whether the MX community will supports what it supposedly loves by attending events like the USGP so there will be a place for this sport in the future.
HuskyEd wrote:
WORCSRacer that is probably one of the best posts I've read on this topic. Very well said!!Wink
It's a very well written post, and for the most part, he hit the nail right on top of the head. But it can get much more complicated than that for the riders because of their contractual obligations.. It's going to take some cooperation from those who own and operate the teams to get the top riders at a race like this.

Very good post WORCSRacer.
4/26/2011 1:10am
WORCSRacer wrote:
HOF comment. You are exactly what I hate about so many of the people that surround this sport. Plain old ignorant. You have no sense for...
HOF comment. You are exactly what I hate about so many of the people that surround this sport. Plain old ignorant. You have no sense for the scope of what goes on behind the scenes from a business stand point. What type of questions get asked at sponsor meetings? I.e. Let's see the FIM held a race at GH (which sits in the heart of American Motocross) and no one came? I thought these were loyal rabid and motivated fans? Sorry but I've got a proposal from the grilled cheese festival in LA and they will have attendence of 25 to 30K over the weekend, I think I'll put my money there instead...

If the core of this sport doesn't support a an event like the USGP then the fans like you, the riders and the US operations of the factories deserve what the get which will be NOTHING. All the "in the know" posters on here think a rider shouldn't race the USGP because they aren't paid to; here's a thought how about doing it to build your personal brand? How about doing it because your MAIN EFFIN SPONSOR put up huge money to be the series title sponsor? How about doing it because racing motorcycles is what you are freaking paid to do? How about doing it because you want to keep racing motorcycles in the future? Worried about getting hurt? Any rider who takes this craft seriously will be riding with intensity that during the week anyway why not put themselves in a game situation?

Bottom line: This isn't about Glen Helen. Its not about the FIM or MX Sports or the riders. Its about whether the MX community will supports what it supposedly loves by attending events like the USGP so there will be a place for this sport in the future.
HuskyEd wrote:
WORCSRacer that is probably one of the best posts I've read on this topic. Very well said!!Wink
jmar wrote:
It's a very well written post, and for the most part, he hit the nail right on top of the head. But it can get much...
It's a very well written post, and for the most part, he hit the nail right on top of the head. But it can get much more complicated than that for the riders because of their contractual obligations.. It's going to take some cooperation from those who own and operate the teams to get the top riders at a race like this.

Very good post WORCSRacer.
Yes its a great post

The GP comes to the USA,teams,riders even fans make the trip,Monster is even the main sponsor and the home riders don't show up,its crazy

And why do mostly American MX "fans" on here stick up for them and support them for not riding??

In another thread they'll argue about how those same guys are so much better than the GP guys too

The Euros travel over to race on a favourite and well established US track,they race against anyone who turns up,then pack up and go to Brazil the following week to do it all again,well hats off to them I say,and anyone who has the opportunity to go but doesn't take it,well its their loss,I went last year and it was a superb day and I'll definitely be there again this year

The Valkensvard GP was amazing and say what you like about the GPs but they are a way better package for a MX fan to attend from my experience

As for riders risking injury,again its bull$hit,they can get hurt practicing during the week or doing something else,and I'm sure the teams could get a bike set up if they can't then what kind of team are they?
DC
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Morgantown, WV, USA
4/26/2011 1:16am Edited Date/Time 4/26/2011 1:18am
Hold on. MX Sports has no intention of trying to expand to Europe or anywhere else. We have 12 nationals to worry about, and that's all. The teams and the industry are already strapped at 17 AMA Supercross races, the 12 outdoor races, and for a few, the MXoN, so in this economy there's no way that's going to happen, if if we someone wanted to. That's the challenge the USGP faces: not a lack of national pride by our riders, but rather a lack of resources in the sport right now.

And Mr. Info (Mark), I know you work at Glen Helen and have long been a critic of MX Sports... Okay, since last April anyway. Regardless, you should maybe work on your facts before you come in here and sling BS around. Every national on the schedule has an agreement -- that's why they are holding the races this year. And the nominal fee to host a round of the AMA Motocross tour is less than half the purse money paid out by each promoter. Television and running the entire series is on MX Sports and our partners Alli Sports, and it's a considerable number to say the least. The models for the GP and the nationals are much different, and what works for them may not work here (and vice-versa). Different worlds all together, but both are very solid and entertaining series.

By the way: If Jeffrey Herlings came to race in the sand at Southwick, our guys would have their hands full -- in either class! He's not as well-rounded as Ken Roczen (no slouch in the sand himself) but he's something else in the silica...

DC
MX Sports
MCfan4life
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Qld, AU
4/26/2011 1:48am
DC wrote:
Hold on. MX Sports has no intention of trying to expand to Europe or anywhere else. We have 12 nationals to worry about, and that's all...
Hold on. MX Sports has no intention of trying to expand to Europe or anywhere else. We have 12 nationals to worry about, and that's all. The teams and the industry are already strapped at 17 AMA Supercross races, the 12 outdoor races, and for a few, the MXoN, so in this economy there's no way that's going to happen, if if we someone wanted to. That's the challenge the USGP faces: not a lack of national pride by our riders, but rather a lack of resources in the sport right now.

And Mr. Info (Mark), I know you work at Glen Helen and have long been a critic of MX Sports... Okay, since last April anyway. Regardless, you should maybe work on your facts before you come in here and sling BS around. Every national on the schedule has an agreement -- that's why they are holding the races this year. And the nominal fee to host a round of the AMA Motocross tour is less than half the purse money paid out by each promoter. Television and running the entire series is on MX Sports and our partners Alli Sports, and it's a considerable number to say the least. The models for the GP and the nationals are much different, and what works for them may not work here (and vice-versa). Different worlds all together, but both are very solid and entertaining series.

By the way: If Jeffrey Herlings came to race in the sand at Southwick, our guys would have their hands full -- in either class! He's not as well-rounded as Ken Roczen (no slouch in the sand himself) but he's something else in the silica...

DC
MX Sports
"Keep on truckin on" as they say DC. You guys are doing a fine job with the Nationals.

Now if we can just get more of that darn 1st moto on TV....



(just kidding Laughing )
Chili
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Winnipeg, CA
4/26/2011 4:03am
Yes its a great post The GP comes to the USA,teams,riders even fans make the trip,Monster is even the main sponsor and the home riders don't...
Yes its a great post

The GP comes to the USA,teams,riders even fans make the trip,Monster is even the main sponsor and the home riders don't show up,its crazy

And why do mostly American MX "fans" on here stick up for them and support them for not riding??

In another thread they'll argue about how those same guys are so much better than the GP guys too

The Euros travel over to race on a favourite and well established US track,they race against anyone who turns up,then pack up and go to Brazil the following week to do it all again,well hats off to them I say,and anyone who has the opportunity to go but doesn't take it,well its their loss,I went last year and it was a superb day and I'll definitely be there again this year

The Valkensvard GP was amazing and say what you like about the GPs but they are a way better package for a MX fan to attend from my experience

As for riders risking injury,again its bull$hit,they can get hurt practicing during the week or doing something else,and I'm sure the teams could get a bike set up if they can't then what kind of team are they?
Once again pretty much without exception any Euro that comes over to race is doing so for exposure to get a contract here somewhere down the line. No American that can secure a decent ride here is looking to go to the GP's so there is no incentive for them to race minus financial gain.
jamma10
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Bristol, GB
4/26/2011 4:06am
HuskyEd wrote:
WORCSRacer that is probably one of the best posts I've read on this topic. Very well said!!Wink
jmar wrote:
It's a very well written post, and for the most part, he hit the nail right on top of the head. But it can get much...
It's a very well written post, and for the most part, he hit the nail right on top of the head. But it can get much more complicated than that for the riders because of their contractual obligations.. It's going to take some cooperation from those who own and operate the teams to get the top riders at a race like this.

Very good post WORCSRacer.
Yes its a great post The GP comes to the USA,teams,riders even fans make the trip,Monster is even the main sponsor and the home riders don't...
Yes its a great post

The GP comes to the USA,teams,riders even fans make the trip,Monster is even the main sponsor and the home riders don't show up,its crazy

And why do mostly American MX "fans" on here stick up for them and support them for not riding??

In another thread they'll argue about how those same guys are so much better than the GP guys too

The Euros travel over to race on a favourite and well established US track,they race against anyone who turns up,then pack up and go to Brazil the following week to do it all again,well hats off to them I say,and anyone who has the opportunity to go but doesn't take it,well its their loss,I went last year and it was a superb day and I'll definitely be there again this year

The Valkensvard GP was amazing and say what you like about the GPs but they are a way better package for a MX fan to attend from my experience

As for riders risking injury,again its bull$hit,they can get hurt practicing during the week or doing something else,and I'm sure the teams could get a bike set up if they can't then what kind of team are they?
Nice to see a few people get it (great posts by WORCSRacer and TripleDigit especially) Smile

As I say, mocking the USGP and half expecting it to fail is a self fulfilling prophecy. I can understand fans who are reluctant to fly over from the East Coast etc, but if you're supposedly a 'core' US Motocross fan and live within a reasonable vicinity of Glen Helen you should be there to support the sport. Even if that means experiencing something unfamiliar.

Sitting there slagging the USGP off without even giving it a chance by attending means it will, in all likely hood, be removed from the GP calendar. But it won't be the fault of Youthstream, who have brought this event to your doorstep, or DC, or AMA riders who should or shouldn't have competed... it will be thanks to aloof, apathetic fans who can't be bothered.

What's weird, and actually quite sad, is to some that almost seems like something to brag about.
jamma10
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Bristol, GB
4/26/2011 4:21am Edited Date/Time 4/26/2011 4:23am
Yes its a great post The GP comes to the USA,teams,riders even fans make the trip,Monster is even the main sponsor and the home riders don't...
Yes its a great post

The GP comes to the USA,teams,riders even fans make the trip,Monster is even the main sponsor and the home riders don't show up,its crazy

And why do mostly American MX "fans" on here stick up for them and support them for not riding??

In another thread they'll argue about how those same guys are so much better than the GP guys too

The Euros travel over to race on a favourite and well established US track,they race against anyone who turns up,then pack up and go to Brazil the following week to do it all again,well hats off to them I say,and anyone who has the opportunity to go but doesn't take it,well its their loss,I went last year and it was a superb day and I'll definitely be there again this year

The Valkensvard GP was amazing and say what you like about the GPs but they are a way better package for a MX fan to attend from my experience

As for riders risking injury,again its bull$hit,they can get hurt practicing during the week or doing something else,and I'm sure the teams could get a bike set up if they can't then what kind of team are they?
Chili wrote:
Once again pretty much without exception any Euro that comes over to race is doing so for exposure to get a contract here somewhere down the...
Once again pretty much without exception any Euro that comes over to race is doing so for exposure to get a contract here somewhere down the line. No American that can secure a decent ride here is looking to go to the GP's so there is no incentive for them to race minus financial gain.
Stefan Everts - raced a few Outdoor Nationals and even SX for fun.
Marc De Reuver - raced Southwick for fun.
Ken De Dycker - raced Hangtown for fun.
Clement Desalle - raced Washougal for fun (childhood dream) then raced Unadilla primarily for fun but also for some more experience should he decide to race in America in the future.
Ken Roczen - raced SX because again it was a childhood dream and he plans to move over in the next year or so. He's already contracted to KTM until 2012 at least, so he wasn't necessarily racing to 'get noticed'.
Carl Nunn & Mattis Karro - raced Steel City in 2009 for fun.... the list goes on.

The point being that not everyone races a one off Outdoor National with a view to getting noticed.
mom241
Posts
992
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Location
Shawnee, OK, USA
4/26/2011 5:13am
DC wrote:
Hold on. MX Sports has no intention of trying to expand to Europe or anywhere else. We have 12 nationals to worry about, and that's all...
Hold on. MX Sports has no intention of trying to expand to Europe or anywhere else. We have 12 nationals to worry about, and that's all. The teams and the industry are already strapped at 17 AMA Supercross races, the 12 outdoor races, and for a few, the MXoN, so in this economy there's no way that's going to happen, if if we someone wanted to. That's the challenge the USGP faces: not a lack of national pride by our riders, but rather a lack of resources in the sport right now.

And Mr. Info (Mark), I know you work at Glen Helen and have long been a critic of MX Sports... Okay, since last April anyway. Regardless, you should maybe work on your facts before you come in here and sling BS around. Every national on the schedule has an agreement -- that's why they are holding the races this year. And the nominal fee to host a round of the AMA Motocross tour is less than half the purse money paid out by each promoter. Television and running the entire series is on MX Sports and our partners Alli Sports, and it's a considerable number to say the least. The models for the GP and the nationals are much different, and what works for them may not work here (and vice-versa). Different worlds all together, but both are very solid and entertaining series.

By the way: If Jeffrey Herlings came to race in the sand at Southwick, our guys would have their hands full -- in either class! He's not as well-rounded as Ken Roczen (no slouch in the sand himself) but he's something else in the silica...

DC
MX Sports
Never mind, Davey. No one wants to hear the truth. I thought I explained why the US riders weren't riding the USGP. Still, here comes more bashing of them and their pride. Our guys apparently are scared to be "bad mofo's" or whatever.
Huckster
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2592
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Location
Woodstock, NY, USA
4/26/2011 5:20am
WORCSRacer that is all fuzzy and nice but it's such a simplistic view. The reality of the situation is that it does not work like that. What makes you think that the riders don't want to do that race? what makes you think that it is their decision? They are under contract from their team and personal sponsors and I am sure that said contract lists all of their obligations. If their sponsors wanted them to be at the USGP for exposure and it was a sticking point, then it most likely would be in the contract. Plus do you think that when Feld or MXSports goes into a potential sponsor that they pitch the USGP attendance or the fact that it even exists? Do you think that when Nike sits down with the NFL to talk about sponsorship that they bring up the fact that the Rutgers vs Army game at the new meadowlands only drew 15k people? The GP's and Nationals are separate entities. I would be very surprised to hear that sponsor X didn't sign up to sponsor the Sx and/or National series based off the attendance of the USGP. Do they ask GH's people how many people attended last weekends REM race? The support of the USGP is in no way tied into the future of this sport in the USA. More important to the success of this sport in this country is the attendance at the SX/Nationals, followed right behind by the attendance at the grassroots local events. When Japan starts telling the factories to attend the USGP and budgets accordingly then the stars of the AMA series will be there. Until then, its just a one off exhibition race and an opportunity for lower level privateers to get some quality seat time. With that said, if it were at Unadilla, Broome or Southwick I would be there.....
mom241
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Shawnee, OK, USA
4/26/2011 5:34am
jamma10 wrote:
Stefan Everts - raced a few Outdoor Nationals and even SX for fun. Marc De Reuver - raced Southwick for fun. Ken De Dycker - raced...
Stefan Everts - raced a few Outdoor Nationals and even SX for fun.
Marc De Reuver - raced Southwick for fun.
Ken De Dycker - raced Hangtown for fun.
Clement Desalle - raced Washougal for fun (childhood dream) then raced Unadilla primarily for fun but also for some more experience should he decide to race in America in the future.
Ken Roczen - raced SX because again it was a childhood dream and he plans to move over in the next year or so. He's already contracted to KTM until 2012 at least, so he wasn't necessarily racing to 'get noticed'.
Carl Nunn & Mattis Karro - raced Steel City in 2009 for fun.... the list goes on.

The point being that not everyone races a one off Outdoor National with a view to getting noticed.
And how many of those guys raced without some support from a team over here? Yet everyone seems to think that RV should show up in his pickup truck because he should just love to race.

Our guys have had one 1 UNO une weekend off since January 9. I mean not only the riders. The managers, the truck drivers, the mechanics, the tire, suspension, motor, ... guys. Yet you don't seem to understand why they don't want to add another weekend in the middle of it all.
Overdrive
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1614
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Fort Myers, FL, USA
4/26/2011 5:41am
DC wrote:
Hold on. MX Sports has no intention of trying to expand to Europe or anywhere else. We have 12 nationals to worry about, and that's all...
Hold on. MX Sports has no intention of trying to expand to Europe or anywhere else. We have 12 nationals to worry about, and that's all. The teams and the industry are already strapped at 17 AMA Supercross races, the 12 outdoor races, and for a few, the MXoN, so in this economy there's no way that's going to happen, if if we someone wanted to. That's the challenge the USGP faces: not a lack of national pride by our riders, but rather a lack of resources in the sport right now.

And Mr. Info (Mark), I know you work at Glen Helen and have long been a critic of MX Sports... Okay, since last April anyway. Regardless, you should maybe work on your facts before you come in here and sling BS around. Every national on the schedule has an agreement -- that's why they are holding the races this year. And the nominal fee to host a round of the AMA Motocross tour is less than half the purse money paid out by each promoter. Television and running the entire series is on MX Sports and our partners Alli Sports, and it's a considerable number to say the least. The models for the GP and the nationals are much different, and what works for them may not work here (and vice-versa). Different worlds all together, but both are very solid and entertaining series.

By the way: If Jeffrey Herlings came to race in the sand at Southwick, our guys would have their hands full -- in either class! He's not as well-rounded as Ken Roczen (no slouch in the sand himself) but he's something else in the silica...

DC
MX Sports
mom241 wrote:
Never mind, Davey. No one wants to hear the truth. I thought I explained why the US riders weren't riding the USGP. Still, here comes more...
Never mind, Davey. No one wants to hear the truth. I thought I explained why the US riders weren't riding the USGP. Still, here comes more bashing of them and their pride. Our guys apparently are scared to be "bad mofo's" or whatever.
So Jmar would you once again like to dispute the FACTS or throw out again that " the sport is bigger than any individual, and neither DC or GL is either a savior of the sport, or the devil that will be it's demise" pie in the sky crap.

The top guy comes on and states the reasons for a lack of attendance and you still don't get it, its not up to DC and MXsports.
mom241
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992
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Shawnee, OK, USA
4/26/2011 5:50am
Sorry, Jamma, I didn't mean you specifically.
jamma10
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Bristol, GB
4/26/2011 5:58am Edited Date/Time 4/26/2011 6:01am
jamma10 wrote:
Stefan Everts - raced a few Outdoor Nationals and even SX for fun. Marc De Reuver - raced Southwick for fun. Ken De Dycker - raced...
Stefan Everts - raced a few Outdoor Nationals and even SX for fun.
Marc De Reuver - raced Southwick for fun.
Ken De Dycker - raced Hangtown for fun.
Clement Desalle - raced Washougal for fun (childhood dream) then raced Unadilla primarily for fun but also for some more experience should he decide to race in America in the future.
Ken Roczen - raced SX because again it was a childhood dream and he plans to move over in the next year or so. He's already contracted to KTM until 2012 at least, so he wasn't necessarily racing to 'get noticed'.
Carl Nunn & Mattis Karro - raced Steel City in 2009 for fun.... the list goes on.

The point being that not everyone races a one off Outdoor National with a view to getting noticed.
mom241 wrote:
And how many of those guys raced without some support from a team over here? Yet everyone seems to think that RV should show up in...
And how many of those guys raced without some support from a team over here? Yet everyone seems to think that RV should show up in his pickup truck because he should just love to race.

Our guys have had one 1 UNO une weekend off since January 9. I mean not only the riders. The managers, the truck drivers, the mechanics, the tire, suspension, motor, ... guys. Yet you don't seem to understand why they don't want to add another weekend in the middle of it all.
I was simply replying to Chili's assumption that 'pretty much every Euro without exception that comes over to race is doing so for exposure'.

I'm not one of the guys arguing that any of the AMA riders should ride the USGP, but I can see why you assumed I was. Of course it would be nice if some of them did ride, and their presence would surely help attract more fans, but If I was in their shoes I probably wouldn't 'choose' to race either.

That said, its still common for European riders to come over and race a one off National (inbetween their national series and GP series) on a loaned machine and pit from the back of a van, but its supposedly unfair to expect a US rider to race a one off event on their own doorstep?

Im not bashing the US riders, I have a huuuuge amount of respect for them, but in the grand scheme of things often terms seem to weigh in their favour and they're rarely prepared to compete out of their comfort zone.

edit - just saw your apology mom251, no worries! Smile
Overdrive
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1614
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Location
Fort Myers, FL, USA
4/26/2011 6:11am
jamma10 wrote:
Stefan Everts - raced a few Outdoor Nationals and even SX for fun. Marc De Reuver - raced Southwick for fun. Ken De Dycker - raced...
Stefan Everts - raced a few Outdoor Nationals and even SX for fun.
Marc De Reuver - raced Southwick for fun.
Ken De Dycker - raced Hangtown for fun.
Clement Desalle - raced Washougal for fun (childhood dream) then raced Unadilla primarily for fun but also for some more experience should he decide to race in America in the future.
Ken Roczen - raced SX because again it was a childhood dream and he plans to move over in the next year or so. He's already contracted to KTM until 2012 at least, so he wasn't necessarily racing to 'get noticed'.
Carl Nunn & Mattis Karro - raced Steel City in 2009 for fun.... the list goes on.

The point being that not everyone races a one off Outdoor National with a view to getting noticed.
mom241 wrote:
And how many of those guys raced without some support from a team over here? Yet everyone seems to think that RV should show up in...
And how many of those guys raced without some support from a team over here? Yet everyone seems to think that RV should show up in his pickup truck because he should just love to race.

Our guys have had one 1 UNO une weekend off since January 9. I mean not only the riders. The managers, the truck drivers, the mechanics, the tire, suspension, motor, ... guys. Yet you don't seem to understand why they don't want to add another weekend in the middle of it all.
jamma10 wrote:
I was simply replying to Chili's assumption that 'pretty much every Euro without exception that comes over to race is doing so for exposure'. I'm not...
I was simply replying to Chili's assumption that 'pretty much every Euro without exception that comes over to race is doing so for exposure'.

I'm not one of the guys arguing that any of the AMA riders should ride the USGP, but I can see why you assumed I was. Of course it would be nice if some of them did ride, and their presence would surely help attract more fans, but If I was in their shoes I probably wouldn't 'choose' to race either.

That said, its still common for European riders to come over and race a one off National (inbetween their national series and GP series) on a loaned machine and pit from the back of a van, but its supposedly unfair to expect a US rider to race a one off event on their own doorstep?

Im not bashing the US riders, I have a huuuuge amount of respect for them, but in the grand scheme of things often terms seem to weigh in their favour and they're rarely prepared to compete out of their comfort zone.

edit - just saw your apology mom251, no worries! Smile
Jamma I don't think its an issue of the US guys not wanting to do more Euro stuff. The US schedule is 17 supercross races and 12 nationals back to back. There are less GPs and they are spread out, so GP guys have the time to do more one off races for their nation or parts of a series if they choose. Its not a slam on either series, the GP's are great as well as SX and USMX. Its a time, money and having the off time to recoup physically for US riders thats at stake.

Alessi used to do Euro stuff all the time but I think it took a toll on him and he slowed up a bit.. IMO
Walter
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375
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Location
Tucson, AZ, USA
4/26/2011 6:26am
Many of you in this thread are correct in that the entire situation is complicated, racing is indeed costly, and there are many contractual and business considerations that come into play these days.

That said, many of us just remember when folks raced against one another to see who was the best on that track that day, rather than having your CPA first determine if it was "economically advantageous" to hit the starting line.

If the latter attitude was determinative when the U.S. first went to the MX de Nats, no US team would have even showed up. The riders, the support staff, and the sponsors did it because they wanted to see how we stacked up against the rest of the MX world...period.
Huckster
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2592
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Woodstock, NY, USA
4/26/2011 6:30am
Walter wrote:
Many of you in this thread are correct in that the entire situation is complicated, racing is indeed costly, and there are many contractual and business...
Many of you in this thread are correct in that the entire situation is complicated, racing is indeed costly, and there are many contractual and business considerations that come into play these days.

That said, many of us just remember when folks raced against one another to see who was the best on that track that day, rather than having your CPA first determine if it was "economically advantageous" to hit the starting line.

If the latter attitude was determinative when the U.S. first went to the MX de Nats, no US team would have even showed up. The riders, the support staff, and the sponsors did it because they wanted to see how we stacked up against the rest of the MX world...period.
true but the world has changed. We used to have to prove something to the world in the late 70's early 80's. Now, not so much.......
Motodude
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4/26/2011 6:37am
Good luck trying to secure Herlings into the Alli Sports stable DC, Euros have seen too many make the leap across the pond only to have their dream turn into a nightmare when they try to adapt.

Did you have dinner with Luongo?
rileymx
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Location
Azores islands, PT
4/26/2011 6:40am
it is easy to understand the us riders not making an effort to race an one off race on its own.......

the us fans on the other hand.....not even having the will to check out the bikes and riders of the other series, many of them works prototypes, and brands not even sold in the states...as for some hot and fast kids racind hard, some of them even said to do their future racing in the usa.......that for me is not understandable.....and it looks like the national pride rises to a point where it overcomes the love of the sport and from my point of view is just plain old stupid.....even more when it comes from the same people that get all fired up and all insider about the same bikes and riders during the race where normally the us riders win over the rest of the world...!!!!!!!! the way i see it this is a kind of racism...... ignorant national racism...!!!!!!!!!!
much more if those same supposed fans knew a bit about the world of mx, and how much love the us riders and teams get here in europe, as how much effort we, european fans, put in trying to see and follow every litle detail about us racing.......

and then there is the economy word.......that one that everybody talks about like an expert............funny is that we, in europe, see more and more us brands investing in our business.....monster is the mxpg main sponsor, is yamaha europe main sponsor, is all over every kawasaki.......even procircuit joined with an kawi team trying to open up new markets......and then theres already parts-europe(parts unlimited) and a lot of other us market brands that because of its quality and exposure, and specially because we europeans fans like and follow the american scene, are now full into the european market trying to grow and overcome the losses in their home market........even the promotors of ama racing get some good euros from pay-per-view tv in europe, since we get to see amasx and amamx with about 1or 2 weeks delay.........

so when all is said and done, it looks like the all mighty us of a is not so big and strong, at least not enough to stand alone anymore.......its an world market and the usa is one of the world players, and even being the biggest player it has to play with the others and try to provide to everyone its good things for them to still be succesfull......national racism can only take you even deeper into that economy hole that you are trying to come out......

so looking at the mx business, it looks like being a nationalist, looking only at prize money, and avoiding to mix with the world scene because of being proudly bigger then the rest.......is nowdays bad business......
this atitude is like looking at the tree and not seing the florest.......so in the end of it i think the usgp means a lot more to the usa then most of you are willing to admit...... your national pride is blinding you.......and it can only hurt you.......
ama mx racing can only be the best in the world.......IF usa is a part of that world.......!!!!!!!!!!!! and if you cant see that then its you to blame..!!!!!!!!
jmar
Posts
14154
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Location
Oklahoma City, OK, USA
4/26/2011 6:40am
mom241 wrote:
And how many of those guys raced without some support from a team over here? Yet everyone seems to think that RV should show up in...
And how many of those guys raced without some support from a team over here? Yet everyone seems to think that RV should show up in his pickup truck because he should just love to race.

Our guys have had one 1 UNO une weekend off since January 9. I mean not only the riders. The managers, the truck drivers, the mechanics, the tire, suspension, motor, ... guys. Yet you don't seem to understand why they don't want to add another weekend in the middle of it all.
jamma10 wrote:
I was simply replying to Chili's assumption that 'pretty much every Euro without exception that comes over to race is doing so for exposure'. I'm not...
I was simply replying to Chili's assumption that 'pretty much every Euro without exception that comes over to race is doing so for exposure'.

I'm not one of the guys arguing that any of the AMA riders should ride the USGP, but I can see why you assumed I was. Of course it would be nice if some of them did ride, and their presence would surely help attract more fans, but If I was in their shoes I probably wouldn't 'choose' to race either.

That said, its still common for European riders to come over and race a one off National (inbetween their national series and GP series) on a loaned machine and pit from the back of a van, but its supposedly unfair to expect a US rider to race a one off event on their own doorstep?

Im not bashing the US riders, I have a huuuuge amount of respect for them, but in the grand scheme of things often terms seem to weigh in their favour and they're rarely prepared to compete out of their comfort zone.

edit - just saw your apology mom251, no worries! Smile
Overdrive wrote:
Jamma I don't think its an issue of the US guys not wanting to do more Euro stuff. The US schedule is 17 supercross races and...
Jamma I don't think its an issue of the US guys not wanting to do more Euro stuff. The US schedule is 17 supercross races and 12 nationals back to back. There are less GPs and they are spread out, so GP guys have the time to do more one off races for their nation or parts of a series if they choose. Its not a slam on either series, the GP's are great as well as SX and USMX. Its a time, money and having the off time to recoup physically for US riders thats at stake.

Alessi used to do Euro stuff all the time but I think it took a toll on him and he slowed up a bit.. IMO
So Jmar would you once again like to dispute the FACTS or throw out again that " the sport is bigger than any individual, and neither DC or GL is either a savior of the sport, or the devil that will be it's demise" pie in the sky crap.

The top guy comes on and states the reasons for a lack of attendance and you still don't get it, its not up to DC and MXsports.


Please show me where I said it was up to DC? I said it was up to DC AND GL to work together to have a combined series race. You continue to spew about the lack of attendance at the GP, and act if I am expecting DC to fix GLs problem. Nothing could be further from the truth, so quit trying to lay you hat on that scenario. If the GP regulars, and America's top riders were to line up on the same gate, the attendance would be off the charts. I really don't believe that anyone would dispute that. It's very complicated and not something that could be done overnight, but I am sure that it could be done.

Overdrive wrote: Jamma I don't think its an issue of the US guys not wanting to do more Euro stuff. The US schedule is 17 supercross races and 12 nationals back to back. There are less GPs and they are spread out, so GP guys have the time to do more one off races for their nation or parts of a series if they choose. Its not a slam on either series, the GP's are great as well as SX and USMX. Its a time, money and having the off time to recoup physically for US riders thats at stake.

I agree, the supercross series is to long, and needs to be cut back to 12 races, and the US open needs to be tossed. These guys need some time to heal up.
Motodude
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Sydney, AU
4/26/2011 6:47am Edited Date/Time 4/26/2011 6:48am
"..it was up to DC AND GL to work together to have a combined series race"

I've been telling DC this for years. Outdoor MX MUST combine to run a North American/Euro series AFTER the SX series. Honda fielding a genuine factory team at the GP's this year can indicate the time is right to sort out the AMA Ali Sports/FIM Youthstream differences.
jamma10
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Bristol, GB
4/26/2011 7:05am
Motodude wrote:
"..it was up to DC AND GL to work together to have a combined series race" I've been telling DC this for years. Outdoor MX MUST...
"..it was up to DC AND GL to work together to have a combined series race"

I've been telling DC this for years. Outdoor MX MUST combine to run a North American/Euro series AFTER the SX series. Honda fielding a genuine factory team at the GP's this year can indicate the time is right to sort out the AMA Ali Sports/FIM Youthstream differences.
I wish the recent radio interview the Luongo gave was archived so you could hear what he had to say about the merits of a combined series.
jmar
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14154
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Location
Oklahoma City, OK, USA
4/26/2011 7:11am
Motodude wrote:
"..it was up to DC AND GL to work together to have a combined series race" I've been telling DC this for years. Outdoor MX MUST...
"..it was up to DC AND GL to work together to have a combined series race"

I've been telling DC this for years. Outdoor MX MUST combine to run a North American/Euro series AFTER the SX series. Honda fielding a genuine factory team at the GP's this year can indicate the time is right to sort out the AMA Ali Sports/FIM Youthstream differences.
jamma10 wrote:
I wish the recent radio interview the Luongo gave was archived so you could hear what he had to say about the merits of a combined...
I wish the recent radio interview the Luongo gave was archived so you could hear what he had to say about the merits of a combined series.
Short version, what did he think of that idea?
flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
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Location
Daytona Beach, FL, USA
4/26/2011 7:12am
mom241 wrote:
Never mind, Davey. No one wants to hear the truth. I thought I explained why the US riders weren't riding the USGP. Still, here comes more...
Never mind, Davey. No one wants to hear the truth. I thought I explained why the US riders weren't riding the USGP. Still, here comes more bashing of them and their pride. Our guys apparently are scared to be "bad mofo's" or whatever.
I gave up yesterday.

This thread is a prime example of people wanting to completely disregard facts and reality and just make up whatever they want to make up and pretend it is somehow reality.
jamma10
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10573
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4/26/2011 7:14am
Motodude wrote:
Good luck trying to secure Herlings into the Alli Sports stable DC, Euros have seen too many make the leap across the pond only to have...
Good luck trying to secure Herlings into the Alli Sports stable DC, Euros have seen too many make the leap across the pond only to have their dream turn into a nightmare when they try to adapt.

Did you have dinner with Luongo?
'too many make the leap across the pond only to have their dream turn into a nightmare when they try to adapt'

Like who? Riders can suffer an injury at anytime, anywhere, but most riders that move over achieve success one way or another.

The biggest obstacle in recent years came in the form of Ricky Carmichael, the best rider that has ever lived.
flarider
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Daytona Beach, FL, USA
4/26/2011 7:23am
JCRF217 wrote:
there are many more tracks that have gone down in history. Life will go one and no one will care in a few years there is...
there are many more tracks that have gone down in history. Life will go one and no one will care in a few years there is a pala now and i think it is better than GH anyway.
WORCSRacer wrote:
HOF comment. You are exactly what I hate about so many of the people that surround this sport. Plain old ignorant. You have no sense for...
HOF comment. You are exactly what I hate about so many of the people that surround this sport. Plain old ignorant. You have no sense for the scope of what goes on behind the scenes from a business stand point. What type of questions get asked at sponsor meetings? I.e. Let's see the FIM held a race at GH (which sits in the heart of American Motocross) and no one came? I thought these were loyal rabid and motivated fans? Sorry but I've got a proposal from the grilled cheese festival in LA and they will have attendence of 25 to 30K over the weekend, I think I'll put my money there instead...

If the core of this sport doesn't support a an event like the USGP then the fans like you, the riders and the US operations of the factories deserve what the get which will be NOTHING. All the "in the know" posters on here think a rider shouldn't race the USGP because they aren't paid to; here's a thought how about doing it to build your personal brand? How about doing it because your MAIN EFFIN SPONSOR put up huge money to be the series title sponsor? How about doing it because racing motorcycles is what you are freaking paid to do? How about doing it because you want to keep racing motorcycles in the future? Worried about getting hurt? Any rider who takes this craft seriously will be riding with intensity that during the week anyway why not put themselves in a game situation?

Bottom line: This isn't about Glen Helen. Its not about the FIM or MX Sports or the riders. Its about whether the MX community will supports what it supposedly loves by attending events like the USGP so there will be a place for this sport in the future.
HuskyEd wrote:
WORCSRacer that is probably one of the best posts I've read on this topic. Very well said!!Wink
No, it's not.
It's horseshit

You can't throw this on the riders, as if they can load up a bike in a pick up and race a GP.
There is a lot more involved, like a TEAM, and everything that surrounds that team. The truck, the fuel, the food, the workers, the mechanics (trackside and in-house), management and more.

DON'T YOU DARE THROW THIS ON THE RIDERS AS IF IT IS SOLELY THEIR DECISION AND INVOLVES NO ONE OR NOTHING ELSE.

Because that's horseshit and you damn well know it.

There's an entire team and thousands and thousands of dollars in costs to do one race, AND YOU KNOW IT!

Rider is not the team manager, the rider is nothing more than a contracted employee.
The rider does not dictate nor pick and choose which events a team shall or shall not participate in.
jamma10
Posts
10573
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Location
Bristol, GB
4/26/2011 7:31am
Motodude wrote:
"..it was up to DC AND GL to work together to have a combined series race" I've been telling DC this for years. Outdoor MX MUST...
"..it was up to DC AND GL to work together to have a combined series race"

I've been telling DC this for years. Outdoor MX MUST combine to run a North American/Euro series AFTER the SX series. Honda fielding a genuine factory team at the GP's this year can indicate the time is right to sort out the AMA Ali Sports/FIM Youthstream differences.
jamma10 wrote:
I wish the recent radio interview the Luongo gave was archived so you could hear what he had to say about the merits of a combined...
I wish the recent radio interview the Luongo gave was archived so you could hear what he had to say about the merits of a combined series.
jmar wrote:
Short version, what did he think of that idea?
I don't remember exactly what he said, but he implied that some sort of inter-continental series which pitched the cream of the US and Europe together in a relatively short championship that included both SX and Motocross rounds had always been a dream of his.

Whether its something that he genuinely hopes to achieve I don't know, I kind of got the impression that it was just an idea he had always entertained in his mind, rather than an actual, feasible goal.

Post a reply to: USGP , Here is a clue on why no top Americans race.

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