dumb question maybe.......

dirtnapper
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Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 1:55pm
....but what happens when you get your bike "claimed'? I've read a few articles and posts that had to do with claiming a bike, and honestly, I don't know what thats all about.

I know, I know, STFU noob, but really, if you don't know, ask, right?

Flamers, flame away. Anyone else, shed some light?
|
4/19/2011 6:16pm
You mean with respect to amateur races or when it gets stolen?
dirtnapper
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4/19/2011 6:19pm
TriRacer27 wrote:
You mean with respect to amateur races or when it gets stolen?
Yeah, to racing.

There was a thread where Alessi's 85 got claimed, and I read an article that back in the day, Bob Hanna was afraid his works bike would get claimed at a race.

???
motogrady
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4/19/2011 6:21pm
Don'r know anything about the amateurs, but there was a time in the pros when it actually happened.

It was high stakes there for awhile, with what the factories were doing at the time.
dirtnapper
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4/19/2011 6:25pm
motogrady wrote:
Don'r know anything about the amateurs, but there was a time in the pros when it actually happened. It was high stakes there for awhile, with...
Don'r know anything about the amateurs, but there was a time in the pros when it actually happened.

It was high stakes there for awhile, with what the factories were doing at the time.
Yeah, but I just don't undrstand HOW it works.

If you beat me in a moto, why the hell would I demand your bike? I don't get the ruling on how someone can take another racer's machine.

The Shop

wet paint
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4/19/2011 6:28pm
motogrady wrote:
Don'r know anything about the amateurs, but there was a time in the pros when it actually happened. It was high stakes there for awhile, with...
Don'r know anything about the amateurs, but there was a time in the pros when it actually happened.

It was high stakes there for awhile, with what the factories were doing at the time.
Mickey Boone 125 nat,
mcopsey
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4/19/2011 6:31pm Edited Date/Time 4/19/2011 6:35pm
It's setup to keep costs in line. I'm not sure of the dollar amount, but you come up with a set amount of cash to "claim" the bike, others have the opportunity to do the same. It basically keeps people from putting $10k into an 80 for fear that it would be claimed for pennies on the dollar. Though I don't know of it happening recently with anyone.
mcopsey
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4/19/2011 6:33pm
G. Claiming
1. *All sanctioned motocross and youth meets are
claiming meets. The claiming price shall be 30 percent
over (50 percent over for Supermini) manufacturer’s
suggested retail price using the Black Book AMA
Official Motorcycle Value Guide, Kelly Blue Book or
NADA appraisal guide and include the complete
motorcycle, supermini or minicycle. Vintage- and ATVclass
equipment shall be excluded from the claiming
rule.
2. Any rider (claimant) may enter a claim for a motorcycle,
supermini or minicycle ridden in an event in which the
claimant has competed. A claim must be entered with the
referee after the meet has been completed, but no later
than 30 minutes afterward. The referee then notifies the
owner of the claimed motorcycle and may take possession
of it.
3. Cash, certified check or bank draft must accompany a
claim. The owner of the claimed motorcycle must
immediately deliver it intact, along with a clear title or bill of
sale.
4. If more than one claim is received for the same
motorcycle, the meet referee will hold a drawing to
determine the successful claimant.
5. If a rider whose motorcycle is claimed refuses to comply,
he must forfeit his trophy, is disqualified from the meet and
will be suspended for one year.
6. A rider may not enter a claim on his own equipment.


Page 27 of the 2011 AMA Racing Rulebook.
motogrady
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4/19/2011 6:35pm
motogrady wrote:
Don'r know anything about the amateurs, but there was a time in the pros when it actually happened. It was high stakes there for awhile, with...
Don'r know anything about the amateurs, but there was a time in the pros when it actually happened.

It was high stakes there for awhile, with what the factories were doing at the time.
dirtnapper wrote:
Yeah, but I just don't undrstand HOW it works. If you beat me in a moto, why the hell would I demand your bike? I don't...
Yeah, but I just don't undrstand HOW it works.

If you beat me in a moto, why the hell would I demand your bike? I don't get the ruling on how someone can take another racer's machine.
Before the event, or series, a number is set.
Let's say, $100,000.00. One hundred thousand dollars.
Anyone that ran against that guy in that race can claim the winners bike for the set price.
But you have to have the money.
The factories had an unwritten rule, if ever a works bike was claimed, all the factories would bid to keep it from the public.
The winner of the bid got the right to claim.
A few times, private guys did, and won.

It's supposed to keep the price of racing down.
I mean, who want's a million dollar bike going to goonerichboy.
dirtnapper
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4/19/2011 6:45pm
Interesting.............thanks for the responses.
flarider
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4/19/2011 6:53pm
If you and I are racing the same class in an AMA amateur event, at the end of the final moto, I can put up, in cash or cashiers check (only), the amount of 30% above the BLUE BOOK value of your bike.
Period.
Blue book DOES NOT take into consideration your mods, no matter how much, Blue Book is based on STOCK

If you refuse to hand the bike over to me, your license will be suspended for one year and your race finish will be disqualified.
dehner47
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4/19/2011 9:49pm
great!!!! now all these mini dads are reading this and going to get cashiers checks as i type this..
Tiki
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Fantasy
4/19/2011 9:54pm
dehner47 wrote:
great!!!! now all these mini dads are reading this and going to get cashiers checks as i type this..
Any mini dad that didn't already know this is just a normal ol dad that enjoys riding with his kid. Besides it's the Mini Moms you have to watch out for. Some of them are downright not lady-like.
jeffro503
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4/20/2011 12:57am
flarider wrote:
If you and I are racing the same class in an AMA amateur event, at the end of the final moto, I can put up, in...
If you and I are racing the same class in an AMA amateur event, at the end of the final moto, I can put up, in cash or cashiers check (only), the amount of 30% above the BLUE BOOK value of your bike.
Period.
Blue book DOES NOT take into consideration your mods, no matter how much, Blue Book is based on STOCK

If you refuse to hand the bike over to me, your license will be suspended for one year and your race finish will be disqualified.
Dave....in what events do they still play by these rules? Does LL and world minis still do this? And what about the pro SX and MX ? I had heard about this stuff years ago , but didn't know it was still going on. I know they do it at local short track ( car racing ) types of racing , but I didn't think the bike stuff was still going on.
jndmx
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4/20/2011 5:23am
It happened to Mike Alessi one year.
flarider
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4/20/2011 5:50am
flarider wrote:
If you and I are racing the same class in an AMA amateur event, at the end of the final moto, I can put up, in...
If you and I are racing the same class in an AMA amateur event, at the end of the final moto, I can put up, in cash or cashiers check (only), the amount of 30% above the BLUE BOOK value of your bike.
Period.
Blue book DOES NOT take into consideration your mods, no matter how much, Blue Book is based on STOCK

If you refuse to hand the bike over to me, your license will be suspended for one year and your race finish will be disqualified.
jeffro503 wrote:
Dave....in what events do they still play by these rules? Does LL and world minis still do this? And what about the pro SX and MX...
Dave....in what events do they still play by these rules? Does LL and world minis still do this? And what about the pro SX and MX ? I had heard about this stuff years ago , but didn't know it was still going on. I know they do it at local short track ( car racing ) types of racing , but I didn't think the bike stuff was still going on.
LL, yes (AMA)
World Mini, no (NMA)

Not in pro racing, amateur only

The "Claiming rule" may be instituted at ANY AMA sanctioned race, local, regional or national. (This includes LL qualifiers)
If it's an AMA race requiring an AMA membership, the rule may be utilized
flarider
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4/20/2011 6:01am
jndmx wrote:
It happened to Mike Alessi one year.
I was standing there and everyone was dumbfounded because everyone had forgotten the rule even still existed, but Ol Man Chatfield knew.

He claimed Mike's Supermini, which was his final race at LL's in mini-sized class.
Terry Varner was supposed to keep it as his reward, and he was spitting bullets. Lot's of stomping around and pissed off people. Steve Carnegie was doing his best to keep things calm, while everyone was standing around going "That rule still exists?"

Legend has it, that Chatfield's claiming was retribution for the Alessi protest and tear down of Chatfield's bike the week prior at Ponca, even though Alessi had beaten him (protested they guy they beat). Mr Chatfield was not happy with having to have the bike reassembled (when protested, you get back "a bike in a box," they don't reassemble), so Chatfield brought a wad of cash to LL's and at the end of the third supermini moto, while all the riders and bikes were in the impound (usually lasts 5 minutes), Mr Chatfield walked up to Carnegie (AMA ref at the time), handed him a wad of cash and said he's claiming Mike's bike.

FIREWORKS!

They locked the bike in a container for a while while it was all straightened out, because then counter-claims were trying to be worked out (in the event of multiple claims, drawing straws determines winner) and so Varner/Alessi had like 30 minutes to come up with the money and enter a claim using another rider racing in the class.

By the way, a member of this forum is now in possession of the famed "Alessi Supermini"
Oldskool
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4/20/2011 6:31am
Flarider's description of what happened with the Alessi bike is spot on. I'm the guy that now owns the bike.

In another claiming story, Todd Heemsbergen of TH Racing claimed Adam Cianciarulo's "stock" Cobra 50 at the Lake Whitney national one year. It became a big story at the time because Todd brought the bike to the Oak Hill GNC the next week with a sign over the number plate that said "Cheater Bike". After the Oak Hill race, Todd then took the bike apart and compared it to a "stock" Cobra 50. He documented all of the differences in these two "stock" bikes on the internet. There were some pretty significant differences in these two "stock" bikes. It appeared that Adam's "stock" bike wasn't so "stock" after all and Todd outed them on the internet where a simple protest would not have caught most, and probably none, of the differences. It was great internet fodder at the time.
huck
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4/20/2011 6:43am
dirtnapper wrote:
....but what happens when you get your bike "claimed'? I've read a few articles and posts that had to do with claiming a bike, and honestly...
....but what happens when you get your bike "claimed'? I've read a few articles and posts that had to do with claiming a bike, and honestly, I don't know what thats all about.

I know, I know, STFU noob, but really, if you don't know, ask, right?

Flamers, flame away. Anyone else, shed some light?
Don't sell yourself short...It's DEFINITELY a dumb question...
flarider
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4/20/2011 6:56am
Oldskool wrote:
Flarider's description of what happened with the Alessi bike is spot on. I'm the guy that now owns the bike. In another claiming story, Todd Heemsbergen...
Flarider's description of what happened with the Alessi bike is spot on. I'm the guy that now owns the bike.

In another claiming story, Todd Heemsbergen of TH Racing claimed Adam Cianciarulo's "stock" Cobra 50 at the Lake Whitney national one year. It became a big story at the time because Todd brought the bike to the Oak Hill GNC the next week with a sign over the number plate that said "Cheater Bike". After the Oak Hill race, Todd then took the bike apart and compared it to a "stock" Cobra 50. He documented all of the differences in these two "stock" bikes on the internet. There were some pretty significant differences in these two "stock" bikes. It appeared that Adam's "stock" bike wasn't so "stock" after all and Todd outed them on the internet where a simple protest would not have caught most, and probably none, of the differences. It was great internet fodder at the time.
I never agreed with the sign thing, and if Todd wanted to do the teardown and pics, that's fine, but I always felt the sign was mean-spirited and hurt the boy more than hurt Cobra.
newmann
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4/20/2011 7:15am
From the Vintage Factory website. Tripes works RC Honda getting raced by a local after it was claimed!The "Buying Marty's Bike" column tells it.





















newmann
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4/20/2011 7:17am
Wow, screwed up the first pic. Sorry.

4/20/2011 7:24am
Thanks for posting that newman

When i first read this thread, Tripes Honda was what i thought about, however i cou;dnt remember the specifics(sucks to get old )lol

That part i did remember was, even though the guy did claim and get the bike, if and when it ever broke a part, where would you get replacment parts?
jeffro503
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4/20/2011 8:11am
WOWS! Dave , Newmann and Oldskool...........thanks for the stories you guys! I do remember the MA / 80cc claim thing by the Chattfields a long time ago , but had forgotten about it.
Oldskool
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4/20/2011 8:25am
When you think about it, claiming a trick bike at an amateur AMA event is the best deal going. BUT, you have to claim the right bike and be ready for the fallout after the fact. I'm told that Mike's supermini cost close to $10K to build but was claimed for a "mere" $4,200 (MSRP + 30%). You can't build a competitive supermini (including the new bike purchase) for anywhere close to $4,200.

I'm really surprised that more bikes don't get claimed at the AMA amateur nationals (or local AMA events for that matter). The only reason that I can come up with is that most Mini-parents don't want to deal with the aftermath and the stigma that comes with doing it.

If I had a kid racing supermini's, I would certainly give it a go knowing what I now know after having taken possession of the "Alessi bike".
newmann
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4/20/2011 8:49am
One more thing. How'd John Roeder do after claiming Tripes bike? How'd Chatfield's career take off after claiming Alessi's bike? People remember that kind of stuff.
jndmx
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4/20/2011 10:30am
newmann wrote:
One more thing. How'd John Roeder do after claiming Tripes bike? How'd Chatfield's career take off after claiming Alessi's bike? People remember that kind of stuff.
Are you saying that The Universe got Chatfield.......lol.
Venture
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4/20/2011 10:57am Edited Date/Time 4/20/2011 10:59am
Interesting rule, I couldn't help but do some sleuthing.

Post on Alessi's found "claimed" bike by a Oldskool. Fun reading a little MX history.
http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Alessi-03-Claimed-Super-M…

Photos of said bike, it was pretty!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/34396295@N07/sets/72157624520834062/
4/20/2011 11:30am
so how much money do you guys think is wrapped up in AC's pro circuit 85 and superminis?
Oldskool
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4/20/2011 11:54am
so how much money do you guys think is wrapped up in AC's pro circuit 85 and superminis?
In AC's race bikes, it's a ton more than MSRP + 30%, for sure. The suspension alone is probably worth more than the claiming price. If you claimed his supermini at LL, you could be pretty sure that it only had 3 motos on it. 3 HARD motos, but It won't be a trick looking but clapped out practice bike for sure.

With this kind of thinking, it sure makes one's walks around the pits at an amateur national a lot more interesting!!!

I would lose a TON of money if someone claimed my son's supermini...



Fox MX-C cartridge forks
Applied billet top triple clamp
Factory Connection coated shock with reworked internals
Factory Connection shock spring
TH Racing engine
billet aluminum head
V-Force 3
Custom flat slide carb with high RPM fuel control
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etc., etc.,etc... You get the picture.
newmann
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4/20/2011 12:35pm
newmann wrote:
One more thing. How'd John Roeder do after claiming Tripes bike? How'd Chatfield's career take off after claiming Alessi's bike? People remember that kind of stuff.
jndmx wrote:
Are you saying that The Universe got Chatfield.......lol.
Maybe, maybe not!Smile But in the case of Roeder claiming the Factory Honda works 250, he pretty much disappeared after that. Not sure how good he was to begin with but he absolutely shit in his lunchbox by claiming that bike.

Post a reply to: dumb question maybe.......

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