This may sound like James bashing...

cason402
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cason402
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 11:26am
but isn't.

Whether it's Ralph or Weege or whoever, they all talk like James should win every race he enters. James cries on the podium like his favorite dog was found after being lost for a week.

Hello? James had a good run of dominance, but not against these guys. If you took TC, RD and RV out of the mix you have what you had before them. James and Reed right at the top, head and shoulders above KW and Short.

James hasn't slowed down, the fastest of the young guys have arrived. Getting fifth, might just happen.

The dominance was over in January, welcome to reality.
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YetiMan
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YetiMan 4/12/2011 2:17am
4/12/2011 2:17am
Understand what your saying, but he has been the fastest in the last few rounds. Won most of his heats, generally topped qualifying. Look at Daytona, he was crazy fast. He just had some shit luck and made some dumb moves. 'Im stoked for him to get a win
cason402
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cason402 4/12/2011 2:21am
4/12/2011 2:21am
YetiMan wrote:
Understand what your saying, but he has been the fastest in the last few rounds. Won most of his heats, generally topped qualifying. Look at Daytona...
Understand what your saying, but he has been the fastest in the last few rounds. Won most of his heats, generally topped qualifying. Look at Daytona, he was crazy fast. He just had some shit luck and made some dumb moves. 'Im stoked for him to get a win
"YetiMan wrote: Understand what your saying, but he has been the fastest in the last few rounds."

This is the disconnect I see all the time... fastest in a supercross race is the time laid down in the main between the gate dropping and the checkered flag. the last few rounds TC and RD were the fastest.

I will agree it's great to seem JS get a win, it keeps it that much more interesting!
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Grieby54 4/12/2011 6:29am
4/12/2011 6:29am
YetiMan wrote:
Understand what your saying, but he has been the fastest in the last few rounds. Won most of his heats, generally topped qualifying. Look at Daytona...
Understand what your saying, but he has been the fastest in the last few rounds. Won most of his heats, generally topped qualifying. Look at Daytona, he was crazy fast. He just had some shit luck and made some dumb moves. 'Im stoked for him to get a win
cason402 wrote:
"YetiMan wrote: Understand what your saying, but he has been the fastest in the last few rounds." This is the disconnect I see all the time...
"YetiMan wrote: Understand what your saying, but he has been the fastest in the last few rounds."

This is the disconnect I see all the time... fastest in a supercross race is the time laid down in the main between the gate dropping and the checkered flag. the last few rounds TC and RD were the fastest.

I will agree it's great to seem JS get a win, it keeps it that much more interesting!
So you're telling me that if, hypothetically, someone crashes in the first turn, gets up dead last, spends 30 seconds kicking their bike over, and proceeds to be 5 seconds a lap faster than anyone else, he's not the fastest guy out there if he doesn't stand on the top step?

No, I'm not saying that's happened to James, I'm just saying that if there's a guy out on the track who's putting faster lap times down than the rest of the field (see Daytona), then in my opinion he's the fastest guy out there. That being said, the fastest guy doesn't always win.
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Rudeboy119 4/12/2011 7:24am
4/12/2011 7:24am
James is used to either winning or laying on the couch. He has never been a 3rd-5th guy. EVER. Now, any one of 6-7 guys can win on any given night. It has to be a huge adjustment. Remember he is still very young by typical standards. I'd rather see James tear up then the robots eyes moving right to left reading their pitboards on the podium!

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Cook441 4/12/2011 7:48am
4/12/2011 7:48am
I think you are right. He still shows glimses of 5 to 8tenths faster but it seems like trying to do it over 20 either bites him or is too much. I think there is basically 5 Reeds or RC's out there (meaning guys that can get it within tenths of him not GOATS ). This probably does create a racing environment that he isnot used to and at first it didn't seem to bother him and everyone was like ut oh Johnny O is working. This will only get worse when the likes of CP and some of the other talented guys get a chance to move up or heal up- I for one hope he doesnt win (the championship) so that he doesnt consider hanging it up as this has been a tough season on JS- and would like to see him again in 2012-
Black Magic 4/12/2011 8:22am
4/12/2011 8:22am
cason402 wrote:
but isn't. Whether it's Ralph or Weege or whoever, they all talk like James should win every race he enters. James cries on the podium like...
but isn't.

Whether it's Ralph or Weege or whoever, they all talk like James should win every race he enters. James cries on the podium like his favorite dog was found after being lost for a week.

Hello? James had a good run of dominance, but not against these guys. If you took TC, RD and RV out of the mix you have what you had before them. James and Reed right at the top, head and shoulders above KW and Short.

James hasn't slowed down, the fastest of the young guys have arrived. Getting fifth, might just happen.

The dominance was over in January, welcome to reality.
Could being not focused or too many distractions have anything to do with it? Dry
FlickitFlat 4/12/2011 2:44pm
4/12/2011 2:44pm
I have to differ. I think it is easier for James to over ride the Yamaha as opposed to the Kawasaki. He looks like he is riding a pogo stick at times and look how wacked his setup looks in order to try and make it do what he wants. Kinda like the year RC had all those crazy settings on the Honda. I don't think any of them, JS included are on par with the RC and JS of Suzuki, Kawasaki days.
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EbarDP48 4/12/2011 2:45pm
4/12/2011 2:45pm
" James, no matter what people want to think, is still the most purely talented guy on the track who has so much potential. In a perfect world, where mistakes, injuries and DNFs didn't happen, Stewart would win almost every race. "

To that I say....TP 199
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GuyB 4/12/2011 2:50pm
4/12/2011 2:50pm
cason402 wrote:
but isn't. Whether it's Ralph or Weege or whoever, they all talk like James should win every race he enters. James cries on the podium like...
but isn't.

Whether it's Ralph or Weege or whoever, they all talk like James should win every race he enters. James cries on the podium like his favorite dog was found after being lost for a week.

Hello? James had a good run of dominance, but not against these guys. If you took TC, RD and RV out of the mix you have what you had before them. James and Reed right at the top, head and shoulders above KW and Short.

James hasn't slowed down, the fastest of the young guys have arrived. Getting fifth, might just happen.

The dominance was over in January, welcome to reality.
You did a reasobably good job of disguing your bashing for the first lone or two, but it crumbled at the end.
panic revver 4/12/2011 2:55pm
4/12/2011 2:55pm
YetiMan wrote:
Understand what your saying, but he has been the fastest in the last few rounds. Won most of his heats, generally topped qualifying. Look at Daytona...
Understand what your saying, but he has been the fastest in the last few rounds. Won most of his heats, generally topped qualifying. Look at Daytona, he was crazy fast. He just had some shit luck and made some dumb moves. 'Im stoked for him to get a win
cason402 wrote:
"YetiMan wrote: Understand what your saying, but he has been the fastest in the last few rounds." This is the disconnect I see all the time...
"YetiMan wrote: Understand what your saying, but he has been the fastest in the last few rounds."

This is the disconnect I see all the time... fastest in a supercross race is the time laid down in the main between the gate dropping and the checkered flag. the last few rounds TC and RD were the fastest.

I will agree it's great to seem JS get a win, it keeps it that much more interesting!
Your definition of fastest is the one that everyone has to go with huh? Ok. Got it.
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txmxer 4/12/2011 3:23pm
4/12/2011 3:23pm
prior to this year, I think James win percentage per start was pretty high. He's probably still above 50%??? To me, that means that yes, every time he lines up on the gate, he's the favorite to win.

I think that if he comes back focused next year, he will win more races than anybody else. The title is a different story, but, race wins, he's still the guy everyone looks to before the gate drops.

The fact that there are 4 other guys that are hungry and fast enough to race with him has opened the championship up and we all benefit from a great series.
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RaceFace 4/12/2011 3:49pm
4/12/2011 3:49pm
In 2009, James was 5 points behind Reed after the 14th round. In 2011 he is 8 points behind Reed. Only problem is that 2 other riders are ahead of Reed now. Pretty damn interesting. Look at how far back 3rd place was and WHO it was.

2009 AMA Supercross Points
1 7 James M. Stewart Haines City, FL 377
2 1 Chad Reed Tampa, FL 373
3 29 Andrew T. Short Smithville, TX 270
4 33 Joshua M. Grant Riverside, CA 237
5 14 Kevin W. Windham Centreville, MS 236
6 2 Ryan D. Villopoto Seattle, WA 233
7 9 Ivan Tedesco Murrieta, CA 226
8 18 David D. Millsaps Carlsbad, CA 219
9 800 Mike A. Alessi Victorville, CA 218
10 75 Joshua R. Hill Murrieta, CA 146

2011 AMA Supercross Points
1 2 Ryan Villopoto Seattle, WA, USA 275
2 1 Ryan Dungey Belle Plaine, MN, USA 270
3 22 Chad Reed Dade City, FL, USA 267
4 7 James Stewart Haines City, FL, USA 259
5 41 Trey Canard Shawnee, OK, USA 255
6 29 Andrew Short Smithville, TX, USA 185
7 14 Kevin Windham Centreville, MS, USA 165
8 18 David Millsaps Carlsbad, CA, USA 143
9 10 Justin Brayton Cornelius, NC, USA 141
10 9 Ivan Tedesco Murrieta, CA, USA 127
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KAWboy14 4/12/2011 3:51pm
4/12/2011 3:51pm
james has the speed to win every race he enters!


luck may come into play sometimes tho....right?
motov8tedcre8tor 4/12/2011 10:29pm
4/12/2011 10:29pm
KAWboy14 wrote:
james has the speed to win every race he enters!


luck may come into play sometimes tho....right?
Why is it that JS fans can't get this...what good is it having the fastest lap times if you can't finish most of the races you are in without at least one major crash. James may or may not be the fastest guy on the track for a few laps but in a supercross main you have to string together 20 fast laps and minimize mistakes to win. He hasn't done that with any consistency this year for whatever reason. Maybe he's got too much crap going on off the track and it is effecting his ability to concentrate for a whole race. Maybe the bike is a pile of crap and they can't get it set up properly. Maybe the competition is a LOT tougher than he has ever had to face before. Maybe he has had a run of bad luck. It could be his biorhythm has been off this year, who knows. Could be some of or all of the above. Having the fastest lap times means NOTHING if you can't stay on two wheels for the whole race.
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Adam43 4/12/2011 10:46pm
4/12/2011 10:46pm
It is confusing how the promoters and especially the TV producers seem to place such emphasis on James, as if he is their great hope for growth.

Stewart is a good champion and one of the fastest guys around, but I think such a focus really demeans the efforts of the other guys.

Ryan Villopoto has flat out-rode Stewart on several occasions this year and is in the driver's seat to win this championship, the most deeply competitive in decades. Shouldn't he at least get equal billing? I suppose I just don't see how Stewart is such a compelling human interest story to continually deserve this extra exposure.
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kiwifan 4/13/2011 12:59am
4/13/2011 12:59am
cason402 wrote:
but isn't. Whether it's Ralph or Weege or whoever, they all talk like James should win every race he enters. James cries on the podium like...
but isn't.

Whether it's Ralph or Weege or whoever, they all talk like James should win every race he enters. James cries on the podium like his favorite dog was found after being lost for a week.

Hello? James had a good run of dominance, but not against these guys. If you took TC, RD and RV out of the mix you have what you had before them. James and Reed right at the top, head and shoulders above KW and Short.

James hasn't slowed down, the fastest of the young guys have arrived. Getting fifth, might just happen.

The dominance was over in January, welcome to reality.
I agree 100%
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kiwifan 4/13/2011 1:01am
4/13/2011 1:01am
Cook441 wrote:
I think you are right. He still shows glimses of 5 to 8tenths faster but it seems like trying to do it over 20 either bites...
I think you are right. He still shows glimses of 5 to 8tenths faster but it seems like trying to do it over 20 either bites him or is too much. I think there is basically 5 Reeds or RC's out there (meaning guys that can get it within tenths of him not GOATS ). This probably does create a racing environment that he isnot used to and at first it didn't seem to bother him and everyone was like ut oh Johnny O is working. This will only get worse when the likes of CP and some of the other talented guys get a chance to move up or heal up- I for one hope he doesnt win (the championship) so that he doesnt consider hanging it up as this has been a tough season on JS- and would like to see him again in 2012-
x2 that is EXACTLY what I was saying in another thread..well the first part anyway
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kiwifan 4/13/2011 1:03am
4/13/2011 1:03am
txmxer wrote:
prior to this year, I think James win percentage per start was pretty high. He's probably still above 50%??? To me, that means that yes, every...
prior to this year, I think James win percentage per start was pretty high. He's probably still above 50%??? To me, that means that yes, every time he lines up on the gate, he's the favorite to win.

I think that if he comes back focused next year, he will win more races than anybody else. The title is a different story, but, race wins, he's still the guy everyone looks to before the gate drops.

The fact that there are 4 other guys that are hungry and fast enough to race with him has opened the championship up and we all benefit from a great series.
I think that is wishful thinking that next year he will win more races...big assumption given the talent this year and the talent due ot move up to 450 class next year....

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kiwifan 4/13/2011 1:05am
4/13/2011 1:05am
KAWboy14 wrote:
james has the speed to win every race he enters!


luck may come into play sometimes tho....right?
motov8tedcre8tor wrote:
Why is it that JS fans can't get this...what good is it having the fastest lap times if you can't finish most of the races you...
Why is it that JS fans can't get this...what good is it having the fastest lap times if you can't finish most of the races you are in without at least one major crash. James may or may not be the fastest guy on the track for a few laps but in a supercross main you have to string together 20 fast laps and minimize mistakes to win. He hasn't done that with any consistency this year for whatever reason. Maybe he's got too much crap going on off the track and it is effecting his ability to concentrate for a whole race. Maybe the bike is a pile of crap and they can't get it set up properly. Maybe the competition is a LOT tougher than he has ever had to face before. Maybe he has had a run of bad luck. It could be his biorhythm has been off this year, who knows. Could be some of or all of the above. Having the fastest lap times means NOTHING if you can't stay on two wheels for the whole race.
well said
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cason402 4/13/2011 1:33am
4/13/2011 1:33am
YetiMan wrote:
Understand what your saying, but he has been the fastest in the last few rounds. Won most of his heats, generally topped qualifying. Look at Daytona...
Understand what your saying, but he has been the fastest in the last few rounds. Won most of his heats, generally topped qualifying. Look at Daytona, he was crazy fast. He just had some shit luck and made some dumb moves. 'Im stoked for him to get a win
cason402 wrote:
"YetiMan wrote: Understand what your saying, but he has been the fastest in the last few rounds." This is the disconnect I see all the time...
"YetiMan wrote: Understand what your saying, but he has been the fastest in the last few rounds."

This is the disconnect I see all the time... fastest in a supercross race is the time laid down in the main between the gate dropping and the checkered flag. the last few rounds TC and RD were the fastest.

I will agree it's great to seem JS get a win, it keeps it that much more interesting!
Grieby54 wrote:
So you're telling me that if, hypothetically, someone crashes in the first turn, gets up dead last, spends 30 seconds kicking their bike over, and proceeds...
So you're telling me that if, hypothetically, someone crashes in the first turn, gets up dead last, spends 30 seconds kicking their bike over, and proceeds to be 5 seconds a lap faster than anyone else, he's not the fastest guy out there if he doesn't stand on the top step?

No, I'm not saying that's happened to James, I'm just saying that if there's a guy out on the track who's putting faster lap times down than the rest of the field (see Daytona), then in my opinion he's the fastest guy out there. That being said, the fastest guy doesn't always win.
yes, i am telling you that the fastest rider from the gate to the flag is the guy who crossed the finish line first.

the guy who fell spotted the winner that time. the time started when the gate dropped, not whenever the guy who fell got his bike started.

the shortest amount of time in any type of race is the first one over the line. thus, the fastest rider.

it's not my definition of fast, it's what written in the results column.
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cason402 4/13/2011 1:43am
4/13/2011 1:43am
cason402 wrote:
but isn't. Whether it's Ralph or Weege or whoever, they all talk like James should win every race he enters. James cries on the podium like...
but isn't.

Whether it's Ralph or Weege or whoever, they all talk like James should win every race he enters. James cries on the podium like his favorite dog was found after being lost for a week.

Hello? James had a good run of dominance, but not against these guys. If you took TC, RD and RV out of the mix you have what you had before them. James and Reed right at the top, head and shoulders above KW and Short.

James hasn't slowed down, the fastest of the young guys have arrived. Getting fifth, might just happen.

The dominance was over in January, welcome to reality.
GuyB wrote:
You did a reasobably good job of disguing your bashing for the first lone or two, but it crumbled at the end.
i'm confused then...

besides my conjecture as to how he was crying (and we all witnessed that), the rest seem to be factual statements.

James is one of the most astounding riders ever in motocross, but right now he's the fifth best rider on the circuit.

i can't see stating fact as being bashing or hurtful.
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kongols 4/13/2011 1:49am
4/13/2011 1:49am
cason402 wrote:
i'm confused then... besides my conjecture as to how he was crying (and we all witnessed that), the rest seem to be factual statements. James is...
i'm confused then...

besides my conjecture as to how he was crying (and we all witnessed that), the rest seem to be factual statements.

James is one of the most astounding riders ever in motocross, but right now he's the fifth best rider on the circuit.

i can't see stating fact as being bashing or hurtful.
If you say "factual statements" than why you state him as fifth best rider? Something is wrong with your "facts".
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jmx281 4/13/2011 1:56am
4/13/2011 1:56am
Im not a big fan of james never was never will be. We can do the What if and the but this or that game all day. But, james was in total control and putting on a clinic at Daytona when he crashed. He came out of the corner strong the rear wheel hooked up (or front tire hit a bump) and he was on a wheelie entering the face of that triple he was doing. Thats not out of control or him pushing or talent is now deeper in the field, thats something that happens. In I believe it was LA or one of the first few rounds, he was leading Yes RV caught him and was putting a lot of pressure on him, but his front wheel washed out in a corner. Who says he wouldnt of won that race just because RV closed up on him. Jacksonville I believe it was where RV didnt make the main. James crashed in the first rhythm section with 3 or more riders. Again maybe he jumped over to far or whatever happened I dont really blame him for that crash.

In those 3 crashes show me where the whole " the talent is just way deeper now" thing comes into play. In my opinion he is still the fastest and most talented on a dirt bike. He might not be a lot more faster then the other riders like he use to but he's still the favorite anytime he's on the gate.
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YetiMan 4/13/2011 2:01am
4/13/2011 2:01am
cason402 wrote:
i'm confused then... besides my conjecture as to how he was crying (and we all witnessed that), the rest seem to be factual statements. James is...
i'm confused then...

besides my conjecture as to how he was crying (and we all witnessed that), the rest seem to be factual statements.

James is one of the most astounding riders ever in motocross, but right now he's the fifth best rider on the circuit.

i can't see stating fact as being bashing or hurtful.
kongols wrote:
If you say "factual statements" than why you state him as fifth best rider? Something is wrong with your "facts".
Hahahahaha. Nice one
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cason402 4/13/2011 2:02am
4/13/2011 2:02am
cason402 wrote:
i'm confused then... besides my conjecture as to how he was crying (and we all witnessed that), the rest seem to be factual statements. James is...
i'm confused then...

besides my conjecture as to how he was crying (and we all witnessed that), the rest seem to be factual statements.

James is one of the most astounding riders ever in motocross, but right now he's the fifth best rider on the circuit.

i can't see stating fact as being bashing or hurtful.
kongols wrote:
If you say "factual statements" than why you state him as fifth best rider? Something is wrong with your "facts".
i stand corrected - James is fourth in the series.
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txmxer 4/13/2011 6:26am
4/13/2011 6:26am
txmxer wrote:
prior to this year, I think James win percentage per start was pretty high. He's probably still above 50%??? To me, that means that yes, every...
prior to this year, I think James win percentage per start was pretty high. He's probably still above 50%??? To me, that means that yes, every time he lines up on the gate, he's the favorite to win.

I think that if he comes back focused next year, he will win more races than anybody else. The title is a different story, but, race wins, he's still the guy everyone looks to before the gate drops.

The fact that there are 4 other guys that are hungry and fast enough to race with him has opened the championship up and we all benefit from a great series.
kiwifan wrote:
I think that is wishful thinking that next year he will win more races...big assumption given the talent this year and the talent due ot move...
I think that is wishful thinking that next year he will win more races...big assumption given the talent this year and the talent due ot move up to 450 class next year....
just an opinion based on the statistics and what I see on the track. Not sure why you see at as wishful thinking.

As far as these up and coming riders that are going to make it more competitive? CP is the only guy that may get in the mix and frankly, I don't see it happening. I don't see him being able to run 20 laps week after week with the fab 5. May all be due to his past injuries, but for whatever reason, his conditioning isn't on par with the other guys.
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kongols 4/13/2011 6:42am
4/13/2011 6:42am
txmxer wrote:
just an opinion based on the statistics and what I see on the track. Not sure why you see at as wishful thinking. As far as...
just an opinion based on the statistics and what I see on the track. Not sure why you see at as wishful thinking.

As far as these up and coming riders that are going to make it more competitive? CP is the only guy that may get in the mix and frankly, I don't see it happening. I don't see him being able to run 20 laps week after week with the fab 5. May all be due to his past injuries, but for whatever reason, his conditioning isn't on par with the other guys.
C`MON ! Pourcel had absolutely no problems in supercross. He was in total control both years he won Lites titles.
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txmxer 4/13/2011 6:52am
4/13/2011 6:52am
txmxer wrote:
just an opinion based on the statistics and what I see on the track. Not sure why you see at as wishful thinking. As far as...
just an opinion based on the statistics and what I see on the track. Not sure why you see at as wishful thinking.

As far as these up and coming riders that are going to make it more competitive? CP is the only guy that may get in the mix and frankly, I don't see it happening. I don't see him being able to run 20 laps week after week with the fab 5. May all be due to his past injuries, but for whatever reason, his conditioning isn't on par with the other guys.
kongols wrote:
C`MON ! Pourcel had absolutely no problems in supercross. He was in total control both years he won Lites titles.
It's all just opinion. Would be great if he is able to get in the mix and be a contender, but, I don't think it's going to happen.
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Grieby54 4/13/2011 6:52am
4/13/2011 6:52am
cason402 wrote:
yes, i am telling you that the fastest rider from the gate to the flag is the guy who crossed the finish line first. the guy...
yes, i am telling you that the fastest rider from the gate to the flag is the guy who crossed the finish line first.

the guy who fell spotted the winner that time. the time started when the gate dropped, not whenever the guy who fell got his bike started.

the shortest amount of time in any type of race is the first one over the line. thus, the fastest rider.

it's not my definition of fast, it's what written in the results column.
Totally. We would all agree that, if Stewart spotted me a lap in a two lap race and I won, I'm faster than James Stewart even if he finishes 1 second behind me. Logic fail.
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7/1/2008
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Castle Rock, CO, USA
Grieby54 4/13/2011 7:11am
4/13/2011 7:11am Edited Date/Time 4/13/2011 7:41am
The fastest rider is the one that put down the fastest lap time. There is no way you can logically dispute that. The rider who is the fastest is the one who put down the fastest lap time. That's how it works. He was the fastest rider that night. Did he win? Maybe, maybe not. But he was the fastest rider out there that night. Most consistent? Maybe, maybe not. But he was the fastest rider out there that night.

The fastest rider doesn't always win. Arguably, the best rider does win, but that doesn't make him the fastest.

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