Should Kawasaki USA restructure their team?

1 day ago
matze wrote:

lets be honest, cant get worse than this. They hit rock bottom

RDnutz wrote:
I dunno, when was last time Suzuki USA overhauled, added newest tech and released a brand new 450 in the USA market? Something more than BNG...

I dunno, when was last time Suzuki USA overhauled, added newest tech and released a brand new 450 in the USA market? Something more than BNG for what 14 years? Not even a standard E Start? I'd say that outright abandoning is worse than Kawi not replacing team management soon enough for some people around here?

Suzuki doesn’t OWE us an electric start or an updated bike. They’ve basically haven’t been doing a ‘bad’ job, They’ve basically said “there’s our product, buy it if...

Suzuki doesn’t OWE us an electric start or an updated bike. 
They’ve basically haven’t been doing a ‘bad’ job, 
They’ve basically said “there’s our product, buy it if you want it, if you don’t..🤷‍♀️ 

We’ll let you know when we’re ready to get serious about motocross again.”

I don't really understand your response. Kawasaki doesn't OWE us a competent race team either. 

beamer
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1 day ago

George did quit on the team BTW 

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matze
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1 day ago
beamer wrote:

George did quit on the team BTW 

yeah he should engrave that on all his podium trophies and title trophy he won after that. "I quit on my previous team btw"

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1 day ago
RDnutz wrote:
I dunno, when was last time Suzuki USA overhauled, added newest tech and released a brand new 450 in the USA market? Something more than BNG...

I dunno, when was last time Suzuki USA overhauled, added newest tech and released a brand new 450 in the USA market? Something more than BNG for what 14 years? Not even a standard E Start? I'd say that outright abandoning is worse than Kawi not replacing team management soon enough for some people around here?

Suzuki doesn’t OWE us an electric start or an updated bike. They’ve basically haven’t been doing a ‘bad’ job, They’ve basically said “there’s our product, buy it if...

Suzuki doesn’t OWE us an electric start or an updated bike. 
They’ve basically haven’t been doing a ‘bad’ job, 
They’ve basically said “there’s our product, buy it if you want it, if you don’t..🤷‍♀️ 

We’ll let you know when we’re ready to get serious about motocross again.”

I don't really understand your response. Kawasaki doesn't OWE us a competent race team either. 

I didn’t say they did. 

he compared what Suzuki has done as “worse” than how Kawasaki are running their team. 

The two teams’ stances are different, and not comparable. IMO.

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The Shop

RDnutz
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1 day ago
Suzuki doesn’t OWE us an electric start or an updated bike. They’ve basically haven’t been doing a ‘bad’ job, They’ve basically said “there’s our product, buy it if...

Suzuki doesn’t OWE us an electric start or an updated bike. 
They’ve basically haven’t been doing a ‘bad’ job, 
They’ve basically said “there’s our product, buy it if you want it, if you don’t..🤷‍♀️ 

We’ll let you know when we’re ready to get serious about motocross again.”

They’ve basically haven’t been doing a ‘bad’ job, 
They’ve basically said “there’s our product, buy it if you want it, if you don’t..🤷‍♀️ 

Agree with this. Seems similar to implied message from kawi when a rider tests their bike before signing big contracts? Like "this is the bike you tested and then agreed to the contract". Then some of the riders complain after the fact while others don't and just ride the bike the best they can.

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RDnutz
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1 day ago
I didn’t say they did. he compared what Suzuki has done as “worse” than how Kawasaki are running their team. The two teams’ stances are different, and not...

I didn’t say they did. 

he compared what Suzuki has done as “worse” than how Kawasaki are running their team. 

The two teams’ stances are different, and not comparable. IMO.

my point was Suzuki hasn't bent over backwards trying to constantly adapt the bike for rider's preferences and never suffered bad press for that stance. IMO, that would be "worse" for fans here telling us massive structural changes must be made within Kawasaki management top to bottom. Suzuki has done less but not suffered the fans shitting on them for not changing or defending their approach.

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RDnutz
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1 day ago

Apples to oranges 

Lemons to Limes. Different colors but both tart flavors.

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matze
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1 day ago
Suzuki doesn’t OWE us an electric start or an updated bike. They’ve basically haven’t been doing a ‘bad’ job, They’ve basically said “there’s our product, buy it if...

Suzuki doesn’t OWE us an electric start or an updated bike. 
They’ve basically haven’t been doing a ‘bad’ job, 
They’ve basically said “there’s our product, buy it if you want it, if you don’t..🤷‍♀️ 

We’ll let you know when we’re ready to get serious about motocross again.”

RDnutz wrote:
They’ve basically haven’t been doing a ‘bad’ job, They’ve basically said “there’s our product, buy it if you want it, if you don’t..🤷‍♀️ Agree with this...

They’ve basically haven’t been doing a ‘bad’ job, 
They’ve basically said “there’s our product, buy it if you want it, if you don’t..🤷‍♀️ 

Agree with this. Seems similar to implied message from kawi when a rider tests their bike before signing big contracts? Like "this is the bike you tested and then agreed to the contract". Then some of the riders complain after the fact while others don't and just ride the bike the best they can.

Fahie burner acc?

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RDnutz
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1 day ago Edited Date/Time 1 day ago
matze wrote:

Fahie burner acc?

lol 🙃 hangover from too much Oktoberfest clouding your thinking there?

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philG
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1 day ago
RDnutz wrote:
They’ve basically haven’t been doing a ‘bad’ job, They’ve basically said “there’s our product, buy it if you want it, if you don’t..🤷‍♀️ Agree with this...

They’ve basically haven’t been doing a ‘bad’ job, 
They’ve basically said “there’s our product, buy it if you want it, if you don’t..🤷‍♀️ 

Agree with this. Seems similar to implied message from kawi when a rider tests their bike before signing big contracts? Like "this is the bike you tested and then agreed to the contract". Then some of the riders complain after the fact while others don't and just ride the bike the best they can.

But this  is flawed . 

The expectation when you try something at this level, is that if it isnt to your liking, it can be made to be so , and the reality is that they either cant, or refuse to work in a way that keeps the rider happy that he should be out there giving everything , when they are not. 

This is a historic issue with this team, for at least 10 years. 

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RG437
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1 day ago
Suzuki doesn’t OWE us an electric start or an updated bike. They’ve basically haven’t been doing a ‘bad’ job, They’ve basically said “there’s our product, buy it if...

Suzuki doesn’t OWE us an electric start or an updated bike. 
They’ve basically haven’t been doing a ‘bad’ job, 
They’ve basically said “there’s our product, buy it if you want it, if you don’t..🤷‍♀️ 

We’ll let you know when we’re ready to get serious about motocross again.”

RDnutz wrote:
They’ve basically haven’t been doing a ‘bad’ job, They’ve basically said “there’s our product, buy it if you want it, if you don’t..🤷‍♀️ Agree with this...

They’ve basically haven’t been doing a ‘bad’ job, 
They’ve basically said “there’s our product, buy it if you want it, if you don’t..🤷‍♀️ 

Agree with this. Seems similar to implied message from kawi when a rider tests their bike before signing big contracts? Like "this is the bike you tested and then agreed to the contract". Then some of the riders complain after the fact while others don't and just ride the bike the best they can.

A rider cannot possibly gain a full understanding of the bike from a couple of hours testing it in conditions that are likely not at all representative of a race. It is very much a first impression. That impression can and will change as the rider gets used to the intricacies of the motorcycle and the teams’ way of working. 

If Kawi are operating on the premise that riders had a positive first experience of the bike and therefore should always like it then that probably goes some way to explaining why they are in this position 

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RDnutz
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1 day ago
RG437 wrote:
A rider cannot possibly gain a full understanding of the bike from a couple of hours testing it in conditions that are likely not at all...

A rider cannot possibly gain a full understanding of the bike from a couple of hours testing it in conditions that are likely not at all representative of a race. It is very much a first impression. That impression can and will change as the rider gets used to the intricacies of the motorcycle and the teams’ way of working. 

If Kawi are operating on the premise that riders had a positive first experience of the bike and therefore should always like it then that probably goes some way to explaining why they are in this position 

I don't think this is necessarily true 100% of the time across the board. Depends on the individual rider. Sure, for guys like me in the 1970's riding nearly every day in home areas I could have the same bike for years and never have a feel for exactly what my bike would do in every situation. I barely progressed from Novice to Intermediate level racer and moved on to other pursuits in life when I admitted I didn't have "it" no matter how much I tweaked and practiced. Some guys in my groups were always faster than me like they were naturals.

When I came back to VMX in the early 2000s there were some retired Pros who would and could ride 3-4 different bikes in up to 8 races in a day and win every race. There were times watching 1 particular guy who had someone that would sponsor him on a ~1974 ish Ossa and also a 1982/83 built YZ100. He'd also share an open class Macio (might have been like 1979 440?) with another owner. Sometimes back-to-back races where this guy would just wait at the starting gate for the owner to cross the finish line in his race, jump off the bike and hand over to the ex-Pro, who would jump on, do a couple quick passes to adjust the brakes and take his slot. Then smoke everyone on that bike too in classes that included experts. He was just a natural and could and did jump on anything and haul ass. At today's Pro level I expect most the top riders are naturals like that too and in just a couple laps push the test bike enough to get a feel for brakes, turning, handling in whoops at least. If there were concerns, I'd expect them to say something to the team after the test ride to see if they would work with him on that if he signs.

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RG437
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2 hours ago
RG437 wrote:
A rider cannot possibly gain a full understanding of the bike from a couple of hours testing it in conditions that are likely not at all...

A rider cannot possibly gain a full understanding of the bike from a couple of hours testing it in conditions that are likely not at all representative of a race. It is very much a first impression. That impression can and will change as the rider gets used to the intricacies of the motorcycle and the teams’ way of working. 

If Kawi are operating on the premise that riders had a positive first experience of the bike and therefore should always like it then that probably goes some way to explaining why they are in this position 

RDnutz wrote:
I don't think this is necessarily true 100% of the time across the board. Depends on the individual rider. Sure, for guys like me in the...

I don't think this is necessarily true 100% of the time across the board. Depends on the individual rider. Sure, for guys like me in the 1970's riding nearly every day in home areas I could have the same bike for years and never have a feel for exactly what my bike would do in every situation. I barely progressed from Novice to Intermediate level racer and moved on to other pursuits in life when I admitted I didn't have "it" no matter how much I tweaked and practiced. Some guys in my groups were always faster than me like they were naturals.

When I came back to VMX in the early 2000s there were some retired Pros who would and could ride 3-4 different bikes in up to 8 races in a day and win every race. There were times watching 1 particular guy who had someone that would sponsor him on a ~1974 ish Ossa and also a 1982/83 built YZ100. He'd also share an open class Macio (might have been like 1979 440?) with another owner. Sometimes back-to-back races where this guy would just wait at the starting gate for the owner to cross the finish line in his race, jump off the bike and hand over to the ex-Pro, who would jump on, do a couple quick passes to adjust the brakes and take his slot. Then smoke everyone on that bike too in classes that included experts. He was just a natural and could and did jump on anything and haul ass. At today's Pro level I expect most the top riders are naturals like that too and in just a couple laps push the test bike enough to get a feel for brakes, turning, handling in whoops at least. If there were concerns, I'd expect them to say something to the team after the test ride to see if they would work with him on that if he signs.

We’re talking the absolute elite level here. I’m sure when Chase is 40 he’ll be able to turn up to any local track on any bike and still win, but right now he’s racing Supercross and he’s trying to beat elite level athletes. 

A rider won’t get a true understanding and feeling for the bike until they have spent 10’s of hours on it and learned the intricacies and the way it reacts both on the limit and in different conditions. The first test prior to signing is purely a first impression to check there isn’t something that immediately jumps out to them as being a red flag 

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vdrsnk04
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46 minutes ago Edited Date/Time 45 minutes ago
Mit12 wrote:

Time to give the team to Pro Circuit. It has worked for Yamaha a couple times. It can’t get worse.

Pro Circuit isn’t winning titles either, but I still like the idea because it’s changing something anyway.

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