How does Honda make a 450 so much lighter?

wow123
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wow123
Edited Date/Time 1/26/2012 12:51pm
"the 2011 YZ450F is not a light motorcycle (and with the exception of the Honda CRF450, all fuel-injected bikes are porkers),"

MXA quote

are they following the obesity problem most western countries are experiencing?

bigmuck don alds kx, yz, rm, ktm?
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jndmx
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jndmx 2/22/2011 8:53am
2/22/2011 8:53am
Helium in the tires......duh.
newmann
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newmann 2/22/2011 9:01am
2/22/2011 9:01am
One less camshaft, cam gear and a shorter cam chain. Bolts that are only as long as they need to be with small dished out bolt heads. Lots of little details add up to pretty substantial weight savings.
835
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835 2/22/2011 9:03am
2/22/2011 9:03am
newmann wrote:
One less camshaft, cam gear and a shorter cam chain. Bolts that are only as long as they need to be with small dished out bolt...
One less camshaft, cam gear and a shorter cam chain. Bolts that are only as long as they need to be with small dished out bolt heads. Lots of little details add up to pretty substantial weight savings.
Add it all up - Better Engineering.
fencepost
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fencepost 2/22/2011 9:09am
2/22/2011 9:09am
jndmx wrote:
Helium in the tires......duh.
Dont forget about making the frame air tight and filling it as well.

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Karma
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Karma 2/22/2011 9:23am
2/22/2011 9:23am
Did Honda's scale read the same weight as MXA's scale?
MX4EVR
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MX4EVR 2/22/2011 9:33am
2/22/2011 9:33am Edited Date/Time 2/22/2011 9:39am
92+ billion per yr rev
they make autos not musical instruments
More money for engineering.
I think there stock is more than double per share then yamaha
Fender Rodes
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Fender Rodes 2/22/2011 9:49am
2/22/2011 9:49am
Because it's the same bike as the 250 just 200 more cc's basically. The other bikes are completely different bikes. Get on one and look how small and narrow it is compared to the others.

jeff
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pie8man 2/22/2011 10:01am
2/22/2011 10:01am
There is all that.... And a subframe that bends if you look at it funny. Remember the days when it took a 6' pipe to bend a subframe back? If you have ever owned/worked on a Honda and then worked on another manufacturer you will see the difference. From the fasteners on the Hondas are just built better IMO.
Karma
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Karma 2/22/2011 10:10am
2/22/2011 10:10am
Fender Rodes wrote:
Because it's the same bike as the 250 just 200 more cc's basically. The other bikes are completely different bikes. Get on one and look how...
Because it's the same bike as the 250 just 200 more cc's basically. The other bikes are completely different bikes. Get on one and look how small and narrow it is compared to the others.

jeff
This...they feel the same, until you twist the throttle and almost kill yourself, well thats what happened to me when I tried the 450!
PicardsFacepalm 2/22/2011 10:14am
2/22/2011 10:14am
They also must take some weight out of the transmission since those have been getting chewed up on the 2009's as well. The shift drum and gear dogs hold up like they're made of aluminum.
Propaganda!
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Propaganda! 2/22/2011 10:14am
2/22/2011 10:14am
They used 3 very sharp engineering tricks to do that:

They probably saved some weight by only including half a clutch with the bike, leaving the consumer to install a full clutch later if they choose.

Also, nice weak fork springs.

While the press was mostly concentrating on the "Mass Centralization" employed by Yamaha to tame the lardy acres of it's exciting new "ButterBall" YZF450, Honda was using it's sophisticated FLCCT (Fuel Leakdown Crankcase Catch Tank) System to lower the center of gravity on the CRF automatically. As the fuel escaped the fuel tank and drained into the crankcase, it would lower the bikes center of gravity. The system works well until the fuel concentration in the crankcase begins to impair the function of the oil, or until the total fluid volume in the crankcase reaches a point where there is an excess cyclical fluid pressure as the engine runs and seals start blowing everywhere.
ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 2/22/2011 10:16am
2/22/2011 10:16am
Many of the magazine tests I've read say the 2009 handling is really bad and that it's a nervous, twitchy bike. Any truth to this ?
wow123
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wow123 2/22/2011 10:33am
2/22/2011 10:33am
Propaganda! wrote:
They used 3 very sharp engineering tricks to do that: They probably saved some weight by only including half a clutch with the bike, leaving the...
They used 3 very sharp engineering tricks to do that:

They probably saved some weight by only including half a clutch with the bike, leaving the consumer to install a full clutch later if they choose.

Also, nice weak fork springs.

While the press was mostly concentrating on the "Mass Centralization" employed by Yamaha to tame the lardy acres of it's exciting new "ButterBall" YZF450, Honda was using it's sophisticated FLCCT (Fuel Leakdown Crankcase Catch Tank) System to lower the center of gravity on the CRF automatically. As the fuel escaped the fuel tank and drained into the crankcase, it would lower the bikes center of gravity. The system works well until the fuel concentration in the crankcase begins to impair the function of the oil, or until the total fluid volume in the crankcase reaches a point where there is an excess cyclical fluid pressure as the engine runs and seals start blowing everywhere.
LMAO

thats very very funny stuff cause its true and so eloquently put

should send that to the honda engineers in japan

but not sure if japanese get sarcasm

i know they dont where i live in sea

bigest laugh of the year so far

thanks
Mstock
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Mstock 2/22/2011 10:36am
2/22/2011 10:36am
Propaganda! wrote:
They used 3 very sharp engineering tricks to do that: They probably saved some weight by only including half a clutch with the bike, leaving the...
They used 3 very sharp engineering tricks to do that:

They probably saved some weight by only including half a clutch with the bike, leaving the consumer to install a full clutch later if they choose.

Also, nice weak fork springs.

While the press was mostly concentrating on the "Mass Centralization" employed by Yamaha to tame the lardy acres of it's exciting new "ButterBall" YZF450, Honda was using it's sophisticated FLCCT (Fuel Leakdown Crankcase Catch Tank) System to lower the center of gravity on the CRF automatically. As the fuel escaped the fuel tank and drained into the crankcase, it would lower the bikes center of gravity. The system works well until the fuel concentration in the crankcase begins to impair the function of the oil, or until the total fluid volume in the crankcase reaches a point where there is an excess cyclical fluid pressure as the engine runs and seals start blowing everywhere.
Said like only a honda owner would know.
R-acer
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R-acer 2/22/2011 10:44am
2/22/2011 10:44am
Propaganda! wrote:
They used 3 very sharp engineering tricks to do that: They probably saved some weight by only including half a clutch with the bike, leaving the...
They used 3 very sharp engineering tricks to do that:

They probably saved some weight by only including half a clutch with the bike, leaving the consumer to install a full clutch later if they choose.

Also, nice weak fork springs.

While the press was mostly concentrating on the "Mass Centralization" employed by Yamaha to tame the lardy acres of it's exciting new "ButterBall" YZF450, Honda was using it's sophisticated FLCCT (Fuel Leakdown Crankcase Catch Tank) System to lower the center of gravity on the CRF automatically. As the fuel escaped the fuel tank and drained into the crankcase, it would lower the bikes center of gravity. The system works well until the fuel concentration in the crankcase begins to impair the function of the oil, or until the total fluid volume in the crankcase reaches a point where there is an excess cyclical fluid pressure as the engine runs and seals start blowing everywhere.
OUCH!! but true.
Also heard of a few explosing clutch's that takes out the engine case too, locally.
I am a fan of the honda brand in general, but I dont like these "new generation" of the CRF's
mjskier
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mjskier 2/22/2011 10:45am
2/22/2011 10:45am
Maybe it is only a 350...
R-acer
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R-acer 2/22/2011 10:47am
2/22/2011 10:47am
mjskier wrote:
Maybe it is only a 350...
No, if it were it would weigh more Whistling
Fender Rodes
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Fender Rodes 2/22/2011 11:02am
2/22/2011 11:02am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Many of the magazine tests I've read say the 2009 handling is really bad and that it's a nervous, twitchy bike. Any truth to this ?
It's love or hate with these bikes. Some people hate the way it handles and some of us bought them because of the way they handle. There is not middle ground really. Even though the magazines dislike them you see more and more red bikes showing up at the track. A friend of mine has 2010 CRF and had it resprung and valved and he now hates the way the bike handles because it doesnt turn as quickly.

It's really all about what you like and what your riding style is like.

jeff

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dlhamblin
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dlhamblin 2/22/2011 11:33am
2/22/2011 11:33am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Many of the magazine tests I've read say the 2009 handling is really bad and that it's a nervous, twitchy bike. Any truth to this ?
I guess it depends on rider preference, I find my 2011 so far to handle well. I like easy turning bikes.
Shawn142
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Shawn142 2/22/2011 11:45am
2/22/2011 11:45am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Many of the magazine tests I've read say the 2009 handling is really bad and that it's a nervous, twitchy bike. Any truth to this ?
dlhamblin wrote:
I guess it depends on rider preference, I find my 2011 so far to handle well. I like easy turning bikes.
I have an 09 CRF450 and my Father just bought a 2011. The only mod I've done to my bike is heavier weight springs and some basic valving to balance it out. After riding them back to back I really can't tell much of a difference aside from how much more quiet the '11 is.

That being said I thought my 09 handled great stock, for me it turned better than any 4-stroke I had ever ridden. The springs and a little valving made it much better, to the point where a newer bike is not an advantage. I also had an '08 CRF450 and to me it now feels like a heavy hard turning pig compared to the newer design.

That being said my '02 CR250 carves tight turns like no 4-stroke can, but I'm still faster on the 450.
newmann
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newmann 2/22/2011 11:49am
2/22/2011 11:49am
Shawn142 wrote:
I have an 09 CRF450 and my Father just bought a 2011. The only mod I've done to my bike is heavier weight springs and some...
I have an 09 CRF450 and my Father just bought a 2011. The only mod I've done to my bike is heavier weight springs and some basic valving to balance it out. After riding them back to back I really can't tell much of a difference aside from how much more quiet the '11 is.

That being said I thought my 09 handled great stock, for me it turned better than any 4-stroke I had ever ridden. The springs and a little valving made it much better, to the point where a newer bike is not an advantage. I also had an '08 CRF450 and to me it now feels like a heavy hard turning pig compared to the newer design.

That being said my '02 CR250 carves tight turns like no 4-stroke can, but I'm still faster on the 450.
That comment about the 02 CR250, I noticed that myself. As old and slow as I am, that bike makes me look like I have decent cornering skills.
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rallendude 2/22/2011 12:16pm
2/22/2011 12:16pm
I had the 2009 and it was hands down the best handling bike I've ever ridden. And I've ridden a few. Not sure where the nervous comments came from. Maybe they took off the steering damper.

I sold it to a friend a year ago and still do the repair work on it. Never lost a clutch, never had the oil/gas problem. The bike was bullet proof until it locked the crank at about 80 or 100 hrs. I think it would have made it longer if it had been mainained better.
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rallendude 2/22/2011 12:20pm
2/22/2011 12:20pm
Oh, and as for the weight loss, park it next to any other mfg bike and you'll see why. It's just smaller all around and they did away with everything that isn't absolutely necessary. The head is smaller, the cylinder is smaller, the frame and engine mounts are simpler, the entire subframe is lighter.

Look at all the little brackets on the Yamaha just to mount the engine. They use twice, maybe three times the number of bolts to hold the engine in a Yamaha.
user760a
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user760a 2/22/2011 7:14pm
2/22/2011 7:14pm
who cares how they did it, the kx450f is the best 450 ever made , weight be damned.
I dont pay any attention to hondas any more, I find them horribly cramped and the top end parts are (or at least were) junk
onenastynotch
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onenastynotch 2/22/2011 7:21pm
2/22/2011 7:21pm
on the scales the honda is 242 pounds with fuel ...the heavist is the kawi at 252 226 is what they claim ...same weight as their 250f which weighs 235 ready to ride.......the weightt they listed was to get people talking ...its not that light
Loose
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Loose 2/22/2011 7:21pm
2/22/2011 7:21pm
who cares how they did it, the kx450f is the best 450 ever made

How so?
EatAChode
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EatAChode 2/22/2011 7:26pm
2/22/2011 7:26pm
Thats why I bought a Honda this time around.
morning_stiffy
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morning_stiffy 2/22/2011 7:36pm
2/22/2011 7:36pm
Propaganda! wrote:
They used 3 very sharp engineering tricks to do that: They probably saved some weight by only including half a clutch with the bike, leaving the...
They used 3 very sharp engineering tricks to do that:

They probably saved some weight by only including half a clutch with the bike, leaving the consumer to install a full clutch later if they choose.

Also, nice weak fork springs.

While the press was mostly concentrating on the "Mass Centralization" employed by Yamaha to tame the lardy acres of it's exciting new "ButterBall" YZF450, Honda was using it's sophisticated FLCCT (Fuel Leakdown Crankcase Catch Tank) System to lower the center of gravity on the CRF automatically. As the fuel escaped the fuel tank and drained into the crankcase, it would lower the bikes center of gravity. The system works well until the fuel concentration in the crankcase begins to impair the function of the oil, or until the total fluid volume in the crankcase reaches a point where there is an excess cyclical fluid pressure as the engine runs and seals start blowing everywhere.
Now that's some Anti-Honda Propaganda!
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user760a 2/22/2011 7:38pm
2/22/2011 7:38pm Edited Date/Time 2/22/2011 7:40pm
Loose wrote:
who cares how they did it, the kx450f is the best 450 ever made

How so?
it has an unstoppable motor, great ergonomics (not a cramper minibike like a honda or suzuki) awesome durability, great suspension,brakes, looks, great overall ride quality, it is a very versatile bike, does it all, is fast, bulletproof, etc
TerryK
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TerryK 2/22/2011 8:43pm
2/22/2011 8:43pm
A 250 pound MX bike is not "light" by any stretch.

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