Posts
4661
Joined
9/22/2008
Location
Arlen, TX, USA
Edited Date/Time
1/24/2012 9:47pm
A lot of riders this year have complained the tracks are difficult to pass on. And a lot of riders have voiced their complaints against DirtWerx, blaming them for poor layouts. Could poor layouts be at fault? Possibly...
However, what if the difficulty passing is not due to the poor layouts, but rather due to the riders?
Ryan Villopoto, made the statement that it is difficult to pass, because, to pass someone, you need to make up a second worth of time in a short span of distance. Now take what Ryan said, and combine it with what Kevin Windham and Ricky Carmichael have both said this season, and it makes perfect sense why everyone is complaining about the tracks being difficult to pass on. Carmichael and Windham have both said (in racerx interviews, and podcasts) that the guys this year are going as fast as you can on a dirt bike. Simply put, you can only go so fast around a track before the laws of physics kick in, and the more riders you have that reach closer to the "maximum possible speed" around a track (or whatever you want to call it) the more difficult it is going to be able to pass. Not to mention, to even reach that maximum speed around a track, the riders generally have to run certain lines.
Combine that with the technology of the bikes today (4-strokes and the unbelievably dialed suspension on these machines, in contrast to the tracks and bikes of the 80's that had more rearend swaps than Jenna Jameson) and the number of mistakes made in a race drastically decreases. "Waiting for a mistake" has been a common theme this year during post race interviews for making passes, which supports Carmichael, Windham, and Villopoto's statements. Furthermore, lot of riders who have voiced complaints against the tracks being difficult to pass (from what little I have been exposed to), have been Chad Reed, and James Stewart, who have always had the luxury of being considerably faster than their competition, along with having the ability to make seemingly effortless passes anywhere on the track - at will. I am sure they are not the only ones complaining, because things must be even more difficult for the guys who run mid-pack to pass, who are running similar times against each others, as well.
Anyways, those are just some thoughts that you don't have to accept. And yes, I do realize there have been some sections of the tracks this year, like the "S" at A2, and the zig-zag at Huston that were very one lined. My solution for the "S" section would have been to move the berm in closer to the inside rut everybody was taking through that sand section; that way riders would not have had to travel such a long distance to rail the berm, which made it a considerably slower line. Had the berm been moved in, maybe might have been some passes from riders utilizing it?
However, what if the difficulty passing is not due to the poor layouts, but rather due to the riders?
Ryan Villopoto, made the statement that it is difficult to pass, because, to pass someone, you need to make up a second worth of time in a short span of distance. Now take what Ryan said, and combine it with what Kevin Windham and Ricky Carmichael have both said this season, and it makes perfect sense why everyone is complaining about the tracks being difficult to pass on. Carmichael and Windham have both said (in racerx interviews, and podcasts) that the guys this year are going as fast as you can on a dirt bike. Simply put, you can only go so fast around a track before the laws of physics kick in, and the more riders you have that reach closer to the "maximum possible speed" around a track (or whatever you want to call it) the more difficult it is going to be able to pass. Not to mention, to even reach that maximum speed around a track, the riders generally have to run certain lines.
Combine that with the technology of the bikes today (4-strokes and the unbelievably dialed suspension on these machines, in contrast to the tracks and bikes of the 80's that had more rearend swaps than Jenna Jameson) and the number of mistakes made in a race drastically decreases. "Waiting for a mistake" has been a common theme this year during post race interviews for making passes, which supports Carmichael, Windham, and Villopoto's statements. Furthermore, lot of riders who have voiced complaints against the tracks being difficult to pass (from what little I have been exposed to), have been Chad Reed, and James Stewart, who have always had the luxury of being considerably faster than their competition, along with having the ability to make seemingly effortless passes anywhere on the track - at will. I am sure they are not the only ones complaining, because things must be even more difficult for the guys who run mid-pack to pass, who are running similar times against each others, as well.
Anyways, those are just some thoughts that you don't have to accept. And yes, I do realize there have been some sections of the tracks this year, like the "S" at A2, and the zig-zag at Huston that were very one lined. My solution for the "S" section would have been to move the berm in closer to the inside rut everybody was taking through that sand section; that way riders would not have had to travel such a long distance to rail the berm, which made it a considerably slower line. Had the berm been moved in, maybe might have been some passes from riders utilizing it?
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Phoenix wasn't that bad.
Oakland would have been a good passing track if not for rain.
Anaheim II was good.
Houston sucked but was fun to watch.
San Diegos track looks promising.
It's common knowledge that all of the bowl turns have been put in to allow the, "ahum ! " heavier racing machines the ability to carry their momentum and so over the crowd pleasing obstacles.
A2 last year with the replica 1986 track was not visually thrilling because the the walls of death were not inserted.
what's the fix ?
For the average modern fan I'm not sure if they know the difference anyway,
If your a follower of this sport for a while It's fairly clear that in a short track situation with limited take off AND removing the one line bowl turns you would need a lighter and more aggressively tuned bike in order to attack and find lines to get to the front.
Yes of course I'm saying 2 stroke, and I'm sick of this argument, but watching the big show now, apart from Daytona has become frustrating.
That to me would answer the thread question.
jb.
The vets have seen and rode the tracks from the earlier years so they know what works, and the new kids on 250 f's should have some input too. I don't know how much input the vet riders have on the track designs, or how much the builders listen, but its apparent that some shit that has been built on a couple tracks this year really doesn't work at all with the riders.
I'm sure its hard making new tracks every weekend to suit the riders, but some things shouldn't even be considered as far as track layout and design. Such as: s turns after whoops, walls, sand sections in turns before triples, 90 degree turns all the way around the perimeter of the track, narrow lame lanes, triples right after the starts, and 50 yard starts into 280 degree turns.
Agreed! Take it up into the stands like LA and Pontiac. It is nice to see more technical tracks indoors with multiple lines through turns. Just not straights with whoops and triples. After all it is "Indoor Motocross"...
Remember a couple years ago when a rider launched into the stands during practice?
No way in hell are you going to run the course through the seats like they used to with insurance liability being what it is today.
I spoke with Rich from Dirt Wurx about the track issues a few years back and here is something you might not know.
Each track HAS to have certain elements per the folks at Feld.
There has to be a triple or big jump on either side fo the stadium so both side of the stadium get an up close look.
The finish jump has to be clearly visible from the entire stadium.
There can be no line of sight restrictions from one side of the track to the other.
There needs to be at least one whoop section.
There has to be adequate space for the Asterisk folks and all the track workers to get around the layout safely.
They cannot go below the hard deck floor surface and in the case of some staiums they cannot cover certain areas with dirt.
( the pitchers mound at Dodger stadium had this restriction)
Not to mention that most stadiums now are limited purpose by design.....a baseball diamond or football field is the designated item that they build around.
So now tell me again how you are going to be creative with the track design with all those restrictions?
As far as what RV talked about, you don't have to make a second, but, you do have to run someone up over a berm in a bowl turn if your speed is close to make a pass.
Remember the flat 180's at Atlanta last year? JT$ and other racers seemed to hate it...but, it slowed up the racing and created opportunity for error (without being deadly).
When they head east.....the dirt is softer , riders form different lines ( ruts ) and the racing always seems to be better.
BUT.....I also think the "hard to pass" stuff going on is what we see towards the front _ 1st - about 7th or so ).....there seems to be a lot of it going on in the back. Especially when a fast rider like James , RV , or Reed go down and make their move towards the front.
Heck , last couple weekends , TC and RV both have come from something like 13th-15th....and made it up on the box!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHE8SI9Rrfc&feature=player_embedded#at=75
Pit Row
stewart has it , the rest need to step it up and stewart wont have that 6-8 thenths advantage every weekend.
remember back when RC finally beat MC???? corner speed got him, there,
remember when TP199 didnt crash yet in a race?? LOL!!!
he was right up there and was leading and it was his corner speed and fearless balls out in the whoops.
If I were a pro I would make a track with just 180deg corners and whoops. set the stop watch and set some goals, if it didnt payoff by my lap times at the next race then, keep lowereing the goals for lap time and dont stop until I was were I needed to be.
I would also make it twice as long as a standard SX track, then 20 laps on saturday night would be easy.
the ones that win want to win bad enough to do whatever it will take to get there.
RC didnt win 150 ama races by luck, he did more to prepare than anyone.
Post a reply to: Thoughts on the "no passing" 2011 layouts