Pure MX Park in TX under attack-your help please

BMR179
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Fantasy
1/21/2011 8:40am
I agree, but lawsuits are expensive (even the "frivolous" ones). So are ads in the local paper. It boils down to $$$, and the atty has way more than Pure MX. Doni is fighting a good fight AND he has a good atty on his side.

Stew

burn1986....there are no county permits required. He has Texas and National business licensing. Food permits were received whenever food had been sold or served.
zookrider62!
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1/21/2011 8:41am
The thing is, while the lawyer is the one who filed this petition, because he knows the ins and outs of doing it. Most likely those...
The thing is, while the lawyer is the one who filed this petition, because he knows the ins and outs of doing it. Most likely those other 14 people had just not made a point to file a complaint. But since it was being done, they jumped on board. Doesn't mean they wanted the track there. Anyone can say noise now is a mute point. But I'm still waiting from ANYONE here to tell the answers to my questions. If bikes were made quiet like I am proposing. I say give out fliers to riders and post signs, that they will start conducting sound tests. They have 3 months to comply etc. Give them all kinds of options, new tail pipes, db dawg, packing if they are close etc. Then, take that to court and show the new fence sound ratings. Show the court, they were truely active in quieting down the sound. After that, "when he goes into court what more can the lawyer who now can't hear a noise have for a case? What is the case? How does he win it? " Please, someone answer that. Because like I said, you guys can say city and town folks support these people. I personally like them and their two boys are very nice kids. I just wanna have an answer, to what the lawsuit would say if there is no noise at the lawyers house at all?
how much quieter are you proposing they be? what is the decibel that is acceptable so that the lawyer cannot hear the bikes?
GrapeApe
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1/21/2011 8:43am
The Rock wrote:
we have a track here in rural Texas that is jeopardy of closing down because a lawyer has moved in to a neighboring property and is...
we have a track here in rural Texas that is jeopardy of closing down because a lawyer has moved in to a neighboring property and is hell bent on shutting it down. The main issue at the moment is the lawyer is attempting to out spend the owners Doni and Danielle Wanat. This guy has even gone to the length of videoing people entering the facility, tracking down the owners of the vehicles and then threatening to include them in the lawsuit!

This track is more than a mile from this attorneys’ house and the sound levels have been recorder at less than 80db at the property line so this case could set a very negative precedent if the attorney wins.


Anyone interested in helping the Wanats? Suggestions.....
MONTALBA (KYTX) – “Not in my backyard” that’s what more than a dozen property owners in Montalba are saying about a nearby motocross race track. They want the noise it creates gone, so they’re taking the owner of the track to court.

Maricela Rendon’s former picturesque surroundings in rural Montalba are now home to a motocross racetrack.

“It used to be beautiful out here, like something out of a postcard,” Rendon said. “We come out to this quietness, then all of a sudden we have this.”

A motocross track was built on the land adjacent to Rendon’s about five years ago. But last January, a new owner bought the track and she said it’s busier and much more noisy. Sometimes, Rendon said, patrons even ride and camp out on her land.

“My son has seen headlights of a vehicle, we go out there, like what are they doing over here,” Rendon said.

Rendon and more than 15 nearby property owners are suing the owners of Pure MX Park.

Robert Thackston is one of those landowners; he’s also the attorney representing them in the suit.

“We don’t want to all lose the value of our land and lose the enjoyment we used to have being outdoors,” Thackston said. ”Texas law is pretty clear; you can’t use your land in a way that completely interferes with someone else’s land.”

“It’s been a struggle for us; we don’t have a lot of money,” said Doni Wanat, co-owner of Pure MX Park “When we bought this business, we put everything we had left into it.”

Wanat owns the park with his wife. He said they didn’t talk to nearby land owners before buying the track, but they did check into zoning regulations.

“We noticed there wasn’t any houses close to the track and (we talked) to the previous owner and (he didn’t have) any complaints,” Wanat said.

Wanat said the park attracts business from all over the country, and it’s open fewer days a year than under the previous owner.

“We’re just going to have to do what we can to fight through it and hope the the community and people who believe in property rights in the State of Texas will come to our side,” he said.

“I really hope we can shut it down,” Rendon said. ”It’s unfortunate that it’s come to this, but sometimes we have to speak and say what we want.”




Does Ms. Rendon sound like a passive participant to you?
zookrider62!
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1/21/2011 8:45am
She sat for years with it being a nuisance, but it wasnt a big of a nuisance for her to say shit about it? She sounds like shes lazy and is just hopping aboard because the lawyer is. The fact of the matter is, if she was truely bothered by it, she would have done something a long time ago

The Shop

1/21/2011 8:45am
how much quieter are you proposing they be? what is the decibel that is acceptable so that the lawyer cannot hear the bikes?
I don't have that answer, tests need to be made. The GNCC runs 99db and I'm hoping that is a wide open throttle. Most offroad riders get it. I don't understand why mx riders don't. I don't know if that is the perfect sound level. I'd say, get a couple bikes like 10 at a given time. Have them all with 99db and lower. Have a person go to the guys area, and listen. If they can't hear a peep, then, go alittle higher. It can be tested by trial and error. I'm more mad at the OEM's and pipe makers for making pipes that are so loud for the public, even after we've seen what happens.
burn1986
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1/21/2011 8:48am
Who is the petitioner? Maybe we could all write him a letter. Is FTE really a lawyer? If he is, then maybe we need to get him to contact these people.
zookrider62!
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1/21/2011 8:50am
how much quieter are you proposing they be? what is the decibel that is acceptable so that the lawyer cannot hear the bikes?
I don't have that answer, tests need to be made. The GNCC runs 99db and I'm hoping that is a wide open throttle. Most offroad riders...
I don't have that answer, tests need to be made. The GNCC runs 99db and I'm hoping that is a wide open throttle. Most offroad riders get it. I don't understand why mx riders don't. I don't know if that is the perfect sound level. I'd say, get a couple bikes like 10 at a given time. Have them all with 99db and lower. Have a person go to the guys area, and listen. If they can't hear a peep, then, go alittle higher. It can be tested by trial and error. I'm more mad at the OEM's and pipe makers for making pipes that are so loud for the public, even after we've seen what happens.
I honestly agree with you, but I think most of the newer 4 strokes are under 100. The pipe manufacturers are the ones to blame.

But what youre asking for isnt possible, its too late for that it seems
GrapeApe
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1/21/2011 9:01am Edited Date/Time 1/21/2011 9:06am
She sat for years with it being a nuisance, but it wasnt a big of a nuisance for her to say shit about it? She sounds...
She sat for years with it being a nuisance, but it wasnt a big of a nuisance for her to say shit about it? She sounds like shes lazy and is just hopping aboard because the lawyer is. The fact of the matter is, if she was truely bothered by it, she would have done something a long time ago
A motocross track was built on the land adjacent to Rendon’s about five years ago. But last January, a new owner bought the track and she said it’s busier and much more noisy. Sometimes, Rendon said, patrons even ride and camp out on her land.





I give up. This is an isolated incident involving a rogue lawyer who likes to sue his neighbors for fun in his spare time. Sound isn't a problem, heck, it's only 80db at the fence line. The moral of this story is as long as you don't live within 2 miles of a lawyer your motocross track will be fine. Carry on everyone, nothing to see here.



BMR179
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1/21/2011 9:07am
how much quieter are you proposing they be? what is the decibel that is acceptable so that the lawyer cannot hear the bikes?
I don't have that answer, tests need to be made. The GNCC runs 99db and I'm hoping that is a wide open throttle. Most offroad riders...
I don't have that answer, tests need to be made. The GNCC runs 99db and I'm hoping that is a wide open throttle. Most offroad riders get it. I don't understand why mx riders don't. I don't know if that is the perfect sound level. I'd say, get a couple bikes like 10 at a given time. Have them all with 99db and lower. Have a person go to the guys area, and listen. If they can't hear a peep, then, go alittle higher. It can be tested by trial and error. I'm more mad at the OEM's and pipe makers for making pipes that are so loud for the public, even after we've seen what happens.
Yes, the MX industry should concentrate on lower decibel exhausts. Most of the stock bikes now are more quiet than a few years ago. We, as riders, should maintain our exhausts and keep the packing fresh, buy quieter aftermarket exhausts, and respect our neighbors and the environment. I think MXers are now headed in the right direction.

That being said, as long as dirt bikes are ridden, there will be noise of some sort. What the atty hears is background noise. It is no louder than traffick, a neighbor's lawn mower from 300 yards away, a tractor bailing hay, or a donkey neighing (yes, I hear them at my house). The background noise is just different from what is expected and that pisses him off. Solution? Spend a whole bunch of $ and fight it in a court of law.

Stew
1/21/2011 9:08am
I honestly agree with you, but I think most of the newer 4 strokes are under 100. The pipe manufacturers are the ones to blame. But...
I honestly agree with you, but I think most of the newer 4 strokes are under 100. The pipe manufacturers are the ones to blame.

But what youre asking for isnt possible, its too late for that it seems
Well, I'm just saying courts look at all sides and if you are making an effort to heed warnings, they look favorably. If you stick your middle finger up and say, it's our land and we can be loud, screw you, they don't like that. I'm gonna jump out of here. I don't want the owners to think my goal was to bash them. I like them. I hope to ride there again. It was a very nice track. My whole point to me being in this post was that it's the same as any other post like this I've seen. The only difference is it's one I've ridden. They always say, sound started a lawsuit, but it's not about sound, it's about the bad people who don't like dirtbikers. I'd just like for once, a track to do what I say, and take a step to show the court, we can be responsible, without infringing on others, please let us stay open because we are trying to be responsible neighbors.
The Rock
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1/21/2011 9:10am
I honestly agree with you, but I think most of the newer 4 strokes are under 100. The pipe manufacturers are the ones to blame. But...
I honestly agree with you, but I think most of the newer 4 strokes are under 100. The pipe manufacturers are the ones to blame.

But what youre asking for isnt possible, its too late for that it seems
ALL of the pipe manufacturers now make pipes that pass the AMA' static 94 db test so from my view point you can't bag on them. They also make inserts for their older pipes to get them down to 94 db.

I prefer to put the onus on the riders themselves who don't repack and/or don't use 94 db inserts. Additionally there is no sound testing to speak of in AMA Amateur MX.....in 2011 the OEMs have 94 db bikes but without testing, what is the point?

What is to keep racers from taking apart their stock OEM muffler and opening it up?

Also to the rest of you guys who say if it wasn't sound it would be something else I think that rationale is lame. You are the guys who also say "well the track was there when they moved in, etc. etc."

I'm surprised at tracks like Star West and Barona Oaks are still open with their "we don't care about sound....we were here first attitudes: to tell you the truth.
1/21/2011 9:11am Edited Date/Time 1/21/2011 9:12am
So are the owners, not the same who owned it 3 years ago? Have two boys who ride?

Hey rock, are the pipes tested at wide open yet for that 94db? or what would they be at wide open? Thanks
BMR179
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1/21/2011 9:15am
So are the owners, not the same who owned it 3 years ago? Have two boys who ride? Hey rock, are the pipes tested at wide...
So are the owners, not the same who owned it 3 years ago? Have two boys who ride?

Hey rock, are the pipes tested at wide open yet for that 94db? or what would they be at wide open? Thanks
New owner. Not the Martins. Doni bought it in January 2010.
The Rock
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1/21/2011 9:15am Edited Date/Time 1/21/2011 9:19am
its cute how the 2 stroke crazies pretend no tracks were closed down for noise issues back in the 2 stroke days
Before four strokes we only had a fraction of these types of problems but go ahead and make more brilliant observations that add nothing to the discussion.



miedsoracing1-94 db is a static test, 4500 RPMs for 450s and 5000 RPMs for 250s. The 2 M Max is not really a wide open test but a quick full throttle turn and a max reading is taken. The limit is 115 db in FIM GP with no variances for readings over 115. A general statement is "most" bikes that pass 94 db will pass the 115 db 2 M Max test. In a perfect world we'd have 91 db as the standard for the static and 110 db to 112 db for the 2 M Max. Every three db drop cuts the distance the sound travels in half.
zookrider62!
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1/21/2011 9:20am
its cute how the 2 stroke crazies pretend no tracks were closed down for noise issues back in the 2 stroke days
The Rock wrote:
Before four strokes we only had a fraction of these types of problems but go ahead and make more brilliant observations that add nothing to the...
Before four strokes we only had a fraction of these types of problems but go ahead and make more brilliant observations that add nothing to the discussion.



miedsoracing1-94 db is a static test, 4500 RPMs for 450s and 5000 RPMs for 250s. The 2 M Max is not really a wide open test but a quick full throttle turn and a max reading is taken. The limit is 115 db in FIM GP with no variances for readings over 115. A general statement is "most" bikes that pass 94 db will pass the 115 db 2 M Max test. In a perfect world we'd have 91 db as the standard for the static and 110 db to 112 db for the 2 M Max. Every three db drop cuts the distance the sound travels in half.
So you admit that tracks closed for noise issues with 2 strokes?
1/21/2011 9:25am Edited Date/Time 1/21/2011 9:27am
So you admit that tracks closed for noise issues with 2 strokes?
Although it makes sense that they did, I don't remember ever seeing closings in the past. Now, there is the internet, and more word of mouth. But in Texas here, we have always been pretty good to go on MX tracks. I don't remember any getting closed around me due to noise. I know of a couple since the 4 strokes took over in Texas. One close to me, I loved. I may be wrong. But the point Rock was making, is that it is definitely a problem now.
The Rock
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1/21/2011 9:37am
spd721 wrote:
The lawyer sounds like a total prick with nothing else to do in his pointless life
GrapeApe wrote:
Maybe, but that's not the issue here.
That is exactly the issue here! A Moron who threatens the patrons by tracking down their home address and rents a lift to film over the...
That is exactly the issue here! A Moron who threatens the patrons by tracking down their home address and rents a lift to film over the fence line is the type of person we need to understand if we are ever going to secure our rights to ride our bikes on private land.



This is exactly the type of guy that no matter how quiet the bikes are he would file a complaint - too much dust - too much traffic to and from the track - damage to the environment due to erosion - damage to the water supply do to run off - damage due to gas being spilled - damage due to exhaust fumes Etc Etc etc



Don't you get it? it is exactly about guys like this. They will never stop. Sound is just one of the issues they use to try and make the world conform to the way they want the world to be.



Sure we have to do what we can regarding the sound issue, but a failure to understand guys like this all but ensures we will never win the battle. The only way to beat down assholes like this guy is with the very system he is trying to use to defeat us - the judicial system.



The simpleton approach of just making quieter bikes will doom us against guys like this. We have to assert our rights in the judicial system, loudly let our elected officials know what we want and expect from them with regards to our right to ride and make noise on our own private land and that those very same elected officials will be held accountable come election time. We not only have to defend our rights, we should be proactive in creating legislation and city ordinances that protect our rights.



Or I guess we could just make quieter bikes and hope for the best...
Good luck with your efforts "to make noise on our own land." Let me know how that works out for you.

Instead of hyperbole Nico Izzi's practice track in Georgia came within a whisker of being closed to due noise. His father Nario got the city and the AMA involved and sound inserts and making sure the people coming to their track didn't have worn out packing saved the day.

Funny that all of the other reasons you list "too much dust - too much traffic to and from the track - damage to the environment due to erosion - damage to the water supply do to run off - damage due to gas being spilled - damage due to exhaust fumes Etc Etc etc" have never come up and the track remains open due to the sound issue being addressed.

Why haven't your laundry list of items been used against the track? Probably because most (not all) people don't give a flying &^&k about what other people do as long as it doesn't affect them.
The Rock
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1/21/2011 9:37am Edited Date/Time 1/21/2011 9:40am
spd721 wrote:
The lawyer sounds like a total prick with nothing else to do in his pointless life
GrapeApe wrote:
Maybe, but that's not the issue here.
That is exactly the issue here! A Moron who threatens the patrons by tracking down their home address and rents a lift to film over the...
That is exactly the issue here! A Moron who threatens the patrons by tracking down their home address and rents a lift to film over the fence line is the type of person we need to understand if we are ever going to secure our rights to ride our bikes on private land.



This is exactly the type of guy that no matter how quiet the bikes are he would file a complaint - too much dust - too much traffic to and from the track - damage to the environment due to erosion - damage to the water supply do to run off - damage due to gas being spilled - damage due to exhaust fumes Etc Etc etc



Don't you get it? it is exactly about guys like this. They will never stop. Sound is just one of the issues they use to try and make the world conform to the way they want the world to be.



Sure we have to do what we can regarding the sound issue, but a failure to understand guys like this all but ensures we will never win the battle. The only way to beat down assholes like this guy is with the very system he is trying to use to defeat us - the judicial system.



The simpleton approach of just making quieter bikes will doom us against guys like this. We have to assert our rights in the judicial system, loudly let our elected officials know what we want and expect from them with regards to our right to ride and make noise on our own private land and that those very same elected officials will be held accountable come election time. We not only have to defend our rights, we should be proactive in creating legislation and city ordinances that protect our rights.



Or I guess we could just make quieter bikes and hope for the best...
Good luck with your efforts "to make noise on our own land." Let me know how that works out for you.

Instead of hyperbole Nico Izzi's practice track in Georgia came within a whisker of being closed to due noise. His father Nario got the city and the AMA involved and sound inserts and making sure the people coming to their track didn't have worn out packing saved the day.

Funny that all of the other reasons you list "too much dust - too much traffic to and from the track - damage to the environment due to erosion - damage to the water supply do to run off - damage due to gas being spilled - damage due to exhaust fumes Etc Etc etc" have never come up and the track remains open due to the sound issue being addressed.

Why haven't your laundry list of items been used against the track? Probably because most (not all) people don't give a flying &^&k about what other people do as long as it doesn't affect them.

zookrider-Yes tracks closed when two strokes prevailed but nothing to the extent they have in our 21st century four stroke world.
WFO
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1/21/2011 10:08am
There are quite a few issues that people on here don't know. I'd like to suggest that "sometimes" people that don't have much money, can be (let's say nudged) if they think they might get some cash? Get it? That said we will have to wait and see what happens.
Until then, let's Not give this Queen any help. They say he monitors the boards.
Let's stick together and support Montalba and Doni.
Maybe the judge will see what this guy is trying to do and slap him down and make him pay all of Doni's costs.
Thelen20
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1/21/2011 10:30am
No offence to miedosoracing1 and grapeape but i wish everybody in this world was like you two so there would be no place on earth to ride my dirtbike, four strokes wouldn't exist, and people that live 2 miles from me could tell me how to live my life.

Seriously, i have 12 acres that i own and i'll do what i freaking want on it! They don't like it, buy my land and send me on my way, then they can do whatever they want with it, i.e. put a basic texas pasture on a postcard! As one guy mentioned in another thread, i feel it's postcard worthy now that there is a beautiful track on it! How you like them apples!

I live 1/2 mile from a gun range and if me or my neighbors didn't like it we would freaking move. I live a half mile from a little mexico compound thing and i hear merry-go-round music every saturday night. Do i like those issues?? No. Are they causing me harm and ruining my quality of life?? Heck no!

Dirt bikes won't ever be quiet, and they won't ever be clean, they won't ever be "unoticable" as you apparently think they should be so get over it.

The only person that has a leg to stand on here is the lady with the land next to the track. If people have been riding and camping on her land and they would not leave when told to, then and only then should she file a lawsuit.

I realize this ain't the way it is, this is the way it should be!!!
1/21/2011 10:41am Edited Date/Time 1/21/2011 10:59am
Ricky Bobby: with all due respect, no offence.

i think you have it backwards. If everyone that rides MX, like me and grapeape, and had quiet bikes, there still would be multiple tracks that WERE closed due to sound, left around and still being used today. Then we could worry together about all those other issues that you guys keep bringing up like errosion, dust etc. You know, things that haven't closed multiple tracks.

Offroaders get it.

"The only person that has a leg to stand on here is the lady with the land next to the track. If people have been riding and camping on her land and they would not leave when told to, then and only then should she file a lawsuit."

Simply not true. Why will a police officer visit if you are blasting your stereo on your land inside your house?

Thelen20
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1/21/2011 11:16am Edited Date/Time 1/21/2011 11:16am
Quiet dirt bikes do not exist sir. You must be the genius that has the patent on the new "silent" dirt bikes that you speak of. When oh when, great miedosoracing1, will you bestow your vast knowlege on us lowly redneck motocrossers so we can ride on in peace.

1/21/2011 11:23am Edited Date/Time 1/21/2011 11:42am
I hope you aren't part of that track, because you are looking like an ass. You know exactly what I mean, including my db ratings I've stated. quiet is relative. So I will restate it so people like you will understand. Quieter, so that a person 1 mile away doesn't freaking hear it. Have you heard a Aprilia ever? Yes, there are quiet like car, bikes out there. My XR350 was quiet, my XR600 was quiet. So yes, it is possible to make bikes quiet. We (MX industry)just choose not too.

Dirt Rider has taken a strong stand on the noise issue, and we are always looking for better solutions. The dB Snorkel is just that: a fresh idea in quieting down two-strokes. It is simple, effective and retails at a very reasonable $85. The biggest drawback to the dB Snorkel could be its looks, but if it bugs you when you ride, the bigger problem is you looking at your muffler instead of the trail. Its conspicuous appearance is also a great way to kick off a conversation about sound issues. But we'll dock it for fashion, on principal.

The instructions are huge, like blueprints for a house, but they are easy to follow. Install time will range from 30 minutes to an hour. The trick is to get the snorkel's hard parts to clear the brake caliper and attach securely to the muffler; this process was simple on our FMF Q. It fits on the end of most two-stroke mufflers with a circumference close to 971/48 inches and seals securely with a series of hose clamps and brackets.

With the help of DR friend Charlie Williams and his KTM 300 EXC, which sounded in at 94 decibels with fresh silencer packing, we bolted up a dB Snorkel; his bike now tests at 82.3 decibels. On our KTM 200 EXC, we went from 92 decibels down to an astonishing 78 decibels. These bikes were so quiet that you do not actually hear the exhaust note any longer but rather the growl of the intake and the tinging inside the expansion chamber. Having a pipe shield damps the noise even further.

So it has to kill performance right? Well, in actuality, you can't even feel a difference in normal trail-riding situations, and this was a big surprise. Even when holding the bike wide-open for some long runs on roads, it was hardly noticeable, and it withstood all the abuse we put it through. Although it weighs in at 2 pounds, you hardly feel it was there while riding the bike. It has the added benefit of making it really hard for water to enter the muffler. Some goop will accumulate on the Snorkel, but it wipes right off with degreaser.

Right now, the dB Snorkel is only recommended for two-strokes. The manufacturer has not done enough testing on four-stroke bikes, whose exhaust is hotter (and louder-we really need it for these!) than a two-stroke's. Hopefully the company will have a unit for them out soon. -Jimmy Lewis

tyler durden
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1/21/2011 11:40am Edited Date/Time 1/21/2011 11:43am
i think theyll be fine on the merits. its a business. its has been in continuous and consistent operation for over two years with no complaints before. the park runs on a limited basis. If the lawyer is a new resident, he had actual or constructive notice the park existed as the track is, by their own admission, open and obvious. IF hes not a new neighbor, there may be a laches issue whereby he is prevented from bringing suit as late as he is. there are only so many adjacent neighbors and on and on.



An elected judge is not going to shut down a viable business because of a handful of bandwagon "neighbors" complaining about something that causes no injury in fact. the land value argument doesnt work in rural areas and the same goes for the noise complaint to a certain extent. as long as they have adequate legal support they will be fine.



Hopefully, the AMA and other big organizations chime in here.

Montalba is an undiscovered treasure for those that havent been there. After the supercrossification of Whitney happened, this became my favorite track in all the land. All of us in the region have an interest in keeping it open.
GrapeApe
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1/21/2011 1:01pm
Thelen20 wrote:
No offence to miedosoracing1 and grapeape but i wish everybody in this world was like you two so there would be no place on earth to...
No offence to miedosoracing1 and grapeape but i wish everybody in this world was like you two so there would be no place on earth to ride my dirtbike, four strokes wouldn't exist, and people that live 2 miles from me could tell me how to live my life.

Seriously, i have 12 acres that i own and i'll do what i freaking want on it! They don't like it, buy my land and send me on my way, then they can do whatever they want with it, i.e. put a basic texas pasture on a postcard! As one guy mentioned in another thread, i feel it's postcard worthy now that there is a beautiful track on it! How you like them apples!

I live 1/2 mile from a gun range and if me or my neighbors didn't like it we would freaking move. I live a half mile from a little mexico compound thing and i hear merry-go-round music every saturday night. Do i like those issues?? No. Are they causing me harm and ruining my quality of life?? Heck no!

Dirt bikes won't ever be quiet, and they won't ever be clean, they won't ever be "unoticable" as you apparently think they should be so get over it.

The only person that has a leg to stand on here is the lady with the land next to the track. If people have been riding and camping on her land and they would not leave when told to, then and only then should she file a lawsuit.

I realize this ain't the way it is, this is the way it should be!!!
Quite the contrary I am in favor of being pro-active so my kids can enjoy the sport that brought me so many blessings as a kid. You are not going to slot me as anti or pro four stroke, anti or pro two stroke, liberal, conservative, or any other convenient brand. I am a realist, and I can see that sound is a major problem that land owners such as yourself are going to have to deal with or your rights will be cut off. Your attitude is the problem, not the solution. Of course bikes are going to make noise, so be pro-active and do things to curtail the noise before your neighbor gets annoyed and closes you down. They can, and they will. Or you can be belligerent and raise your middle finger to the man and see how far that gets you.
moto138
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Location
Somewhere In Time, OR, USA
1/21/2011 1:09pm
whats the specific cause of action and injury alleged?







is it within city limits? if so, how is it zoned?
Good question. But it probably doesn't matter. If he's a litigator, then this guy knows how to manipulate the rules of civil procedure such that the...
Good question. But it probably doesn't matter. If he's a litigator, then this guy knows how to manipulate the rules of civil procedure such that the track owners simply won't be able stay in the game because it will demand far too much money and time. Interrogatories, depositions, hearings, resets, and so on. It doesn't take much to be completely overwhelmed.

Now, on the other hand, if the Texas track owners (Miller, Clingfost, etc) would band together along with the riding community to help these folks fund their defense, they *could* win out. But I'm not sure everyone gets along so well to unify in such a manner. The AMA is also a resource. And, despite popular notions about them, they can be a big help with this kind of thing..
BMR179 wrote:
I live in Palestine, 15 miles away, and grew up here. Doni and Danielle are great people, have made many friends here, and are very active...
I live in Palestine, 15 miles away, and grew up here. Doni and Danielle are great people, have made many friends here, and are very active in the Montalba community. The track is located in the county, there is no zoning. The attorney (Robert Thackston) filed a nuisance lawsuit against the track. He tried to get an injunction to stop operations until the civil trial, but the judge ruled in Doni's favor. We can discuss decibel readings 'till the cows come home, but in this case, because of the distance of the attorney's property, I believe that will be a somewhat mute point, although noise is what started this action. I also believe that it will come down to property owners rights and how long the track has been in business (4+ yrs). Remember, it is in rural east Texas and there will be some proud property owners on the jury.

Whip hit the nail on the head. Thackston will try to put Doni in the poor house. If you live in Texas, YOU can help. Come to Pure MX to ride/practice/race. I'm sure Doni would appreciate your patronage and any extra $$ you would like to donate. When you come, go into Montalba and spend some $$ on food/drinks/gas. Tell the store owners that you are there to ride at Pure. They all know and like Doni and Danielle. http://www.puremxpark.com/ See you there Saturday and Sunday.

Stew

for those of you who want to know what can be done to unify and fight this injustice,bmr179 has a very good way of doing it. if you get the towns people with you,then they can't be against you. show your good will,and let the people know that you value their community. they are all property and business owners and they will see the travasity thats being done to one of their counterparts. if later on it goes to a jury trial the local community will be well aware of what is happening to the track owners and can sympathize with them. get the community involved.
Thelen20
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2062
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Location
Marshall, TX, USA
1/21/2011 1:50pm Edited Date/Time 1/21/2011 1:57pm
I hope you aren't part of that track, because you are looking like an ass. You know exactly what I mean, including my db ratings I've...
I hope you aren't part of that track, because you are looking like an ass. You know exactly what I mean, including my db ratings I've stated. quiet is relative. So I will restate it so people like you will understand. Quieter, so that a person 1 mile away doesn't freaking hear it. Have you heard a Aprilia ever? Yes, there are quiet like car, bikes out there. My XR350 was quiet, my XR600 was quiet. So yes, it is possible to make bikes quiet. We (MX industry)just choose not too.

Dirt Rider has taken a strong stand on the noise issue, and we are always looking for better solutions. The dB Snorkel is just that: a fresh idea in quieting down two-strokes. It is simple, effective and retails at a very reasonable $85. The biggest drawback to the dB Snorkel could be its looks, but if it bugs you when you ride, the bigger problem is you looking at your muffler instead of the trail. Its conspicuous appearance is also a great way to kick off a conversation about sound issues. But we'll dock it for fashion, on principal.

The instructions are huge, like blueprints for a house, but they are easy to follow. Install time will range from 30 minutes to an hour. The trick is to get the snorkel's hard parts to clear the brake caliper and attach securely to the muffler; this process was simple on our FMF Q. It fits on the end of most two-stroke mufflers with a circumference close to 971/48 inches and seals securely with a series of hose clamps and brackets.

With the help of DR friend Charlie Williams and his KTM 300 EXC, which sounded in at 94 decibels with fresh silencer packing, we bolted up a dB Snorkel; his bike now tests at 82.3 decibels. On our KTM 200 EXC, we went from 92 decibels down to an astonishing 78 decibels. These bikes were so quiet that you do not actually hear the exhaust note any longer but rather the growl of the intake and the tinging inside the expansion chamber. Having a pipe shield damps the noise even further.

So it has to kill performance right? Well, in actuality, you can't even feel a difference in normal trail-riding situations, and this was a big surprise. Even when holding the bike wide-open for some long runs on roads, it was hardly noticeable, and it withstood all the abuse we put it through. Although it weighs in at 2 pounds, you hardly feel it was there while riding the bike. It has the added benefit of making it really hard for water to enter the muffler. Some goop will accumulate on the Snorkel, but it wipes right off with degreaser.

Right now, the dB Snorkel is only recommended for two-strokes. The manufacturer has not done enough testing on four-stroke bikes, whose exhaust is hotter (and louder-we really need it for these!) than a two-stroke's. Hopefully the company will have a unit for them out soon. -Jimmy Lewis

For the record i am not "part of the track". I ride there as often as i can because it is a first class track. Do not think that my views are their views. The owners are far more kind than i have been in this thread. The opinions stated are my own and i stand behind them (probably could have stated them in a more gentle way, just pissed me off that you guys feel like they/we deserve to be shut down). And if any of you have a 11' 250SX you want to trade straight up for an 04 crf250 and an 07 crf450 pm me.

carry on
The Rock
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8758
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Location
HAIKU, HI, USA
1/21/2011 2:09pm
Just got this e mail from Ryan Schofield: I'm an acoustical consultant in the San Francisco Bay area and mototalk lurker. I recently saw your post about Pure MX park in Texas having a lawyer-neighbor causing trouble. When you hear of tracks having issues like this, could you let people know about the National Council of Acoustical Consultant's directory

It should give them the closest reputable sound expert. There's also a .pdf file on that page with every independent consultant in the States listed. Tracks will need someone on this list to refute legal sound issues.
1/21/2011 2:22pm
Yes you do have a right to make noise on your property - that's the real issue here. How much and at what time is what has to be defined. If you want to keep a track open you have to deal with reality. Dirt bikes make noise - period. If someone brings fifteen people to shut your track down, you have to organize and bring thirty that say it's OK.

As long as bikes make noise at any level, there will always be someone who will complain. The reality is, no matter how loud the "We need quiet bikes" crowd screams, the truth of it is that having quiet bikes that will make the classic asshole neighbor happy ain't going to happen anytime soon. I am not sure why some can't deal with that reality.

As we work toward quieter bikes we need to protect our rights - yes, it costs money and takes time, but hanging on to the myth that if we just had quiet bikes we would all be fine, without making any other effort to protect your rights, will just lead to more tracks being shut down...
VMXdude
Posts
10
Joined
6/26/2009
Location
Hermosa Beach, CA, USA
1/21/2011 3:55pm Edited Date/Time 1/21/2011 3:59pm
The Rock wrote:
we have a track here in rural Texas that is jeopardy of closing down because a lawyer has moved in to a neighboring property and is...
we have a track here in rural Texas that is jeopardy of closing down because a lawyer has moved in to a neighboring property and is hell bent on shutting it down. The main issue at the moment is the lawyer is attempting to out spend the owners Doni and Danielle Wanat. This guy has even gone to the length of videoing people entering the facility, tracking down the owners of the vehicles and then threatening to include them in the lawsuit!

This track is more than a mile from this attorneys’ house and the sound levels have been recorder at less than 80db at the property line so this case could set a very negative precedent if the attorney wins.


Anyone interested in helping the Wanats? Suggestions.....
I respect your position but those like me in the we need quiet bikes crowd have seen enough damage by loud bikes to pretend this is not the core issue to our problem. I can't speak for others but I certainly don't think the only thing required is quiet bikes and is why I am a AMA, BRC, and NOHVCC member as well

Will quiet bikes solve all of our problems...no. Will quiet bikes remove the central issue that is used against us.....absolutely.

Course those of you that disagree are welcome to work on your rights to have loud bikes...good luck with that!

Post a reply to: Pure MX Park in TX under attack-your help please

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