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has little to do with four strokes.
Not to say there aren't legitimate concerns about the dominance of four-strokes in racing on both pro and am levels. The noise and complexity/cost of rebuilds & maintenance are certainly affecting local riding/racing on several levels.
Honestly, everything that can be said in this thread has been said. OW38b 's latest thread just underscores that people are repeating themselves to the point on talking past one another.
Later.
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I never been to the US so I know nothing about the american scene really.
I know plenty about the european scene, and the way YS rule the gp's and I see a lot of similaritys to the way MXsports run their serie.
YS actually said on their own site that 2010 was the year they would let 250f/250 2t compete in the same class. Then they changed their mind and claimed they never said such a thing. Unlike you they don't discuss opinions with media/ fans, they take away the media accredential and threaten people. Therefore i respect you a lot more!
What you have in common is that you both got cold feet when Honda didn't like the change of plans, and since then you refuse to redo the rules that played out to not be fair on prolevel. Racing on prolevel still sends a message to kids out there, they wanna ride the same bike as the proriders do. MX is different from F1 here, nobody in the audience goes out and buys a F1 car after seeing a race.
The costs of fourstrokes have made mx a smaller and smaller sport in Europe. Lot's of dealers, tracks and raceteams have economical trouble. Most teams in the gp's are close to bancrupt. Riders not getting paid by contract and other riders paying 40-100 000Euro to get into a team.
The sport on grassrootlevel have seen no improvement because of a fancy paddock in the gp's. All the sponsormoney from TEKA,REDBULL etc may make a few rider a bit richer, but most of it ends up in YS pocket while the sport is slowly starving to death.
Maybe I'm stupid or naive, but since I love this sport i really wanna push it i a different direction, so my kids can take part in it along with other kids from familys with a normal income.
This subject is very close to my heart, and english isn't my first language so I may come out as rude towards you. I'm really not angry at all, I'm just trying to have a debate with you the best I can. I know US rules would have more of a effect on the big4 since US is the biggest market.
I also dislike fourstrokes because they are to loud(which apparently isn't a problem since all soundtests are a joke at all races. I think they make racing boring with fewer lines and I accuse them of causing more severe injuries than the twostrokes did. I belive it's because they are easier to ride, weighs more and have more rotating mass. Somehow it all makes everybode crascg in higher speed than they did on a twostroke.
I really appreciate your answers though, but I don't agree with you on some of the matters. If you want to be in charge of the superior serie concerning outdoor mx, I think the way to go is to not exclude people and make the market smaller. I can't really describe it better than that. That's the only good thing I can come up with to motivate you to act in a way that will upset your businesspartners.
Whos is the bravest you or Luongo. It will happen sooner or later and it may give one of you an advantage and the other will have to follow. I see lot's of pride getting in way for an obvious decision. Or maybe I'm just a dreamer, but I'm not the only one...Dreams is what keeps this sport going. We all know we gonna loose money and get hurt, but we want to look at that small possibility of making it big time. The price of a modified 250f and the lifespan of the same engine makes it impossible to even dream.
What in this type of thread hasn't been said a multitude of times on both sides.
My point is this is a multifaceted issue that has an easy solution in many eyes and those opposing the issue have a stance based mostly on conjecture.
None of these asked if I had bought a 2-stroke.. The factories will continue to decrease production of 2-strokes to the US regardless of me buying one or not. If you read earlier, 2-strokes are getting hard to find. Its obviously easy for you to buy a new 4-stroke (I assume you have a new 2011 4-stroke).
I'm one of the 100 internet dudes who want to make a difference in getting 2-strokes equal footing in Pro Racing, and even though I effected any sort of rule change, there is always a way to make this change. We just have to find it. Easing up on AMA homologation would help.
Dirt Bike's Ron Lawson just bought a KX125 for 700 bucks and is racing it in REM's new two stroke class
The Great Recession has turned the subject of two strokes vs four stokes from a endless emotional debate into a practical decision for some considering many racers are turning to two strokes to save money/continue being able to race.
Right about now would be a great time to tone down the local tracks so we don't continue losing riders/racers due to injuries but that's another story. The common theme(cheaper race options/lower risk tracks) is stopping the hemorrhaging of riders and turn this back into preferably a growth situation or worst case just maintain the participants we have now.
Seems to me we're at a juncture our sport hasn't seen before and what happens in the next two to three years will determine our long term future.
Honda can take their ball and go home. There are still other manufacturers that can and will fill the void. Just look at the mini classes, which are still dominated by inexpensive and simple two strokes.
The Honda CRF150 didn't take over the mini ranks because they were not allowed to race in the 85cc class, like the 250F was in the 125cc class.
Does Honda even still sell the CRF150?
btw. i think 2 strokes smell like crap and much prefer vp or no smell and i think 4 strokes sound much meaner therefore i like their sound better
Jody himself says in the article that a pro with a two stroke 250 has an advantage over a pro with a four stroke 250, so it doesn't even the playing field unless you devise a rule to prohibit a better pro with more resources from having the 250 smoker as well. It just pushes the fairness issue to a different point and underscores that it's not about type of bike is at issue. Saying the racing was better with a pure 250 smoker class is one thing, trying to rationalize allowing 250 smokers against the 250 bangers in as a leveler in the pro classes just begs the question.
Rock, there's two streams going on here, one about pro SX/MX rules and one about what 99.9% of the rest of the riders do. On the latter, there doesn't seem to be any real dispute that the two stroke option is freely open to them beyond the point that people wish more were being built.
It has nothing to do with how many people watch SX in TV land and more to do with people who ride.
2 stroke lovers dont like 2 strokes just because.... we are not really 2 stroke lovers but lovers of a decent bike that you can buy secodhand and go out and have some fun on that is easy to work on and cheep to run,
Ive not brought a new bike since 2006 and that was a kx 250, if i ever buy new again it will be a 2 stroke.
the 2 stroke lover is pretty much the seconhand market and buyers of new bikes need us to pick up your sloppy seconds.
maybe the rules could be changed just for MX and leve out SX?
SX is gay anyway with all their traction control and F1 type race teams
I go back to what I've said before.....where were all the fairness people when 250Fs were beating the pants off of 125s RE: pro with a two stroke 250 has an advantage over a pro with a four stroke?
Pit Row
By the way, what's your screen name "themrtoad" originate from?
because people are upset and know they're getting screwed over.
people will also remember it started with Honda.
And Themtroad, thanks for the response and input. I see some of your points, and I don't agree with others, but I appreciate your opinion nevertheless.
Finally, do I think the rule is fair right now? No, I don't. But I know why the AMA set that number more than a dozen years ago: to help with the transition to four strokes that all of the OEMs seemed to think was necessary in the mid-nineties when it seemed like two-strokes would be banned in California (along with jet skis and gas-powered leaf blowers and barbecues) due to pollution, and then banned everywhere else. 400cc was too little to be where Yamaha thought they could make a competitive production bike (wasn't Lance Smail riding a 550 KTM at some point with lesser results?) and they eventually settled on 450.
Then the evolution of the technology caught up and then some and now it's not fair the other way. But that doesn't mean to break it back the other way now will do anything to help settle the matter once and for all, in my personal opinion.
DC
MX Sports
DC
MX Sports
So what's next for 2-strokes within MXSports and the AMA?
Obviously we all know the answer to that.
Maybe when the Japs attack the US again, you'll change your mind.
DC
MX Sports
And I think people tend to throw DC under the bus because they feel he's the only one out there that is on our side and not just some stuffed suit. I'd like to see him do something 2 stroke friendly myself and if this 125cc class comes to be then I'll consider this a huge win for the 2 stroke crowd. It's the best chance we have to make a dent without pissing of the OEM's. Some of the mfgs. have abandoned 125's altogether, some just don't bring them here anymore and then there are new ones popping up overseas. Would be cool to see some TM's, Husky's, Gas Gas, TGM's, Maico's(I keep hearing things, haven't seen anything) and possibly a Cobra on the gate at a National. If Honda doesn't want to line up, then let them stay in the 250 and 450 class, no harm done.
I don't work for any part of the industry. Period. Never have. What a jackass way to try avoid an argument on the issue.
In case you haven't noticed, this is a message board, and your opinions don't get a free pass. They get vetted whether you like it or not.
I''ll defend DC, not that he needs my help, or anyone else when I think people are throwing unfair accusations. People have accused him in this thread as being fearful, greedy, a sell out. Over an issue they're making very little consistent sense over.
You know what I like better than two strokes? Professional outdoor motocross. It was almost gone and still is struggling to get back to health in the US after decades of mismanagement by the AMA. The one entity that's put the most at risk to make that happen is MXSports. No one who has dealt with DC personally or been at odds with him, or thought about the battle he fought with Youthstream over the nationals or considered what it must have been like to commit resources to it and then have to ride it through an economy that had the bottom drop out would slander him as being fearful.
The guy is hardly a saint, but even if he's the devil he's not trying to kill the sport but keep it going.
You asked him and he told you and others straight up that he raised the issue with the OEMs out of the box when he took over and they told him they did not want to race on those terms. And he's told you that the pro series still needs the resources the OEM's bring now and that he's judged it not worth the risk of driving them off. So, of course, he's killing motocross.
If there was a voice of reason, it would tell us to quit sawing off the limb we are standing on.
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