Trump says "Iran agreed to everything"

APLMAN99 wrote:

We live in a bizarroland world where people are gladly gaslighted by this type of person…..

We live in a bizarroland world where people are gladly gaslighted by this type of person…..

ToolMaker wrote:

I don't think any of that matters. We have the overwhelming power in the region. Not sure you could ever stop 100% of the small attacks...

I don't think any of that matters. We have the overwhelming power in the region. Not sure you could ever stop 100% of the small attacks but you can't deny we have operational control of the water way. We are out in the open doing what we want vs them having to sneak around to accomplish anything. Eventually their resources will run out.

TM

LoudLove wrote:

“You know, you never defeated us on the battlefield," said US Colonel Harry G. Summers Jr. to North Vietnamese Colonel Tu in April 1975, to...

“You know, you never defeated us on the battlefield," said US Colonel Harry G. Summers Jr. to North Vietnamese Colonel Tu in April 1975, to which Tu replied: "That may be so, but it is also irrelevant".

ToolMaker wrote:

And why that's relevant, we won the war in Vietnam. But then the Dems defunded everything to the tune of 70% and everything turned around. And...

And why that's relevant, we won the war in Vietnam. But then the Dems defunded everything to the tune of 70% and everything turned around. And you see it now, the dems openly say they are supporting Iran only because they don't want to see a win for Trunp. After the midterms, we're fucked. The gerrymandering going on right now. CA was already heavily gerrymandering but when TX did it, CA took away almost all conservative seats. VA, is now 90% dem districts but only 52% dem voters. The whole agenda will be impeach, impeach, impeach.

ToolMaker wrote:

And why that's relevant, we won the war in Vietnam. But then the Dems defunded everything to the tune of 70% and everything turned around. And...

And why that's relevant, we won the war in Vietnam. But then the Dems defunded everything to the tune of 70% and everything turned around. And you see it now, the dems openly say they are supporting Iran only because they don't want to see a win for Trunp. After the midterms, we're fucked. The gerrymandering going on right now. CA was already heavily gerrymandering but when TX did it, CA took away almost all conservative seats. VA, is now 90% dem districts but only 52% dem voters. The whole agenda will be impeach, impeach, impeach.

APLMAN99 wrote:

We live in a bizarroland world where people are gladly gaslighted by this type of person…..

We live in a bizarroland world where people are gladly gaslighted by this type of person…..

ToolMaker wrote:

I don't think any of that matters. We have the overwhelming power in the region. Not sure you could ever stop 100% of the small attacks...

I don't think any of that matters. We have the overwhelming power in the region. Not sure you could ever stop 100% of the small attacks but you can't deny we have operational control of the water way. We are out in the open doing what we want vs them having to sneak around to accomplish anything. Eventually their resources will run out.

TM

LoudLove wrote:

“You know, you never defeated us on the battlefield," said US Colonel Harry G. Summers Jr. to North Vietnamese Colonel Tu in April 1975, to...

“You know, you never defeated us on the battlefield," said US Colonel Harry G. Summers Jr. to North Vietnamese Colonel Tu in April 1975, to which Tu replied: "That may be so, but it is also irrelevant".

ToolMaker wrote:

And why that's relevant, we won the war in Vietnam. But then the Dems defunded everything to the tune of 70% and everything turned around. And...

And why that's relevant, we won the war in Vietnam. But then the Dems defunded everything to the tune of 70% and everything turned around. And you see it now, the dems openly say they are supporting Iran only because they don't want to see a win for Trunp. After the midterms, we're fucked. The gerrymandering going on right now. CA was already heavily gerrymandering but when TX did it, CA took away almost all conservative seats. VA, is now 90% dem districts but only 52% dem voters. The whole agenda will be impeach, impeach, impeach.

ToolMaker wrote:

And why that's relevant, we won the war in Vietnam. But then the Dems defunded everything to the tune of 70% and everything turned around. And...

And why that's relevant, we won the war in Vietnam. But then the Dems defunded everything to the tune of 70% and everything turned around. And you see it now, the dems openly say they are supporting Iran only because they don't want to see a win for Trunp. After the midterms, we're fucked. The gerrymandering going on right now. CA was already heavily gerrymandering but when TX did it, CA took away almost all conservative seats. VA, is now 90% dem districts but only 52% dem voters. The whole agenda will be impeach, impeach, impeach.

Last2Stroke wrote:

ToolMaker wrote:

Ok, closer to 50% but same effect

Ok, closer to 50% but same effect

Last2Stroke wrote:

ToolMaker wrote:

Ok, closer to 50% but same effect

Ok, closer to 50% but same effect

LoudLove wrote:

The war was effectively over by FY1975.  South Vietnamese leadership was in shambles, with many taking refuge overseas. US taxpayers had grown weary of financing a...

The war was effectively over by FY1975.  South Vietnamese leadership was in shambles, with many taking refuge overseas. US taxpayers had grown weary of financing a never-ending war.  Nixon’s attempt to secure funding was just that: an attempt. The reduced funding was justified.  

Last2Stroke wrote:

ToolMaker wrote:

Ok, closer to 50% but same effect

Ok, closer to 50% but same effect

LoudLove wrote:

The war was effectively over by FY1975.  South Vietnamese leadership was in shambles, with many taking refuge overseas. US taxpayers had grown weary of financing a...

The war was effectively over by FY1975.  South Vietnamese leadership was in shambles, with many taking refuge overseas. US taxpayers had grown weary of financing a never-ending war.  Nixon’s attempt to secure funding was just that: an attempt. The reduced funding was justified.  

ToolMaker wrote:

Ok, closer to 50% but same effect

Ok, closer to 50% but same effect

LoudLove wrote:

The war was effectively over by FY1975.  South Vietnamese leadership was in shambles, with many taking refuge overseas. US taxpayers had grown weary of financing a...

The war was effectively over by FY1975.  South Vietnamese leadership was in shambles, with many taking refuge overseas. US taxpayers had grown weary of financing a never-ending war.  Nixon’s attempt to secure funding was just that: an attempt. The reduced funding was justified.  

ToolMaker wrote:

It really depends on who teaches the history on what your take away is. 50% cloud cover, one person comes in the office and says "it's...

It really depends on who teaches the history on what your take away is. 50% cloud cover, one person comes in the office and says "it's cloudy out" next one comes in and says "it's sunny out"

Working for Peace

With the failure of the 1972 Easter Offensive, North Vietnamese leader Le Duc Tho became concerned that his nation could become isolated if President Richard Nixon's policy of détente softened relations between the United States and his allies, the Soviet Union and China. As such he relaxed the North's position in the ongoing peace negotiations and stated that the South Vietnamese government could remain in power as the two sides sought a permanent solution. Responding to this change, Nixon’s National Security Advisor, Henry Kissinger, commenced secret talks with Tho in October.  

 

After ten days, these proved successful and a draft peace document was produced. Angered at having been excluded from the talks, South Vietnamese President Nguyen Van Thieu demanded major alterations to the document and spoke out against the proposed peace. In response, the North Vietnamese published the details of the agreement and stalled the negotiations. Feeling that Hanoi had attempted to embarrass him and to force them back the table, Nixon ordered the bombing of Hanoi and Haiphong in late December 1972 (Operation Linebacker II). On January 15, 1973, after pressuring South Vietnam to accept the peace deal, Nixon announced the end of offensive operations against North Vietnam.

 

Paris Peace Accords

The Paris Peace Accords ending the conflict were signed January 27, 1973, and were followed by the withdrawal of the remaining American troops. The terms of the accords called for a complete ceasefire in South Vietnam, allowed North Vietnamese forces to retain the territory they had captured, released US prisoners of war, and called for both sides to find a political solution to the conflict. To achieve a lasting peace, the Saigon government and Vietcong were working towards a lasting settlement that would result in free and democratic elections in South Vietnam. As an enticement to Thieu, Nixon offered US airpower to enforce the peace terms.

Standing Alone, South Vietnam Falls

With US forces gone from the country, South Vietnam stood alone. Though the Paris Peace Accords were in place, fighting continued and in January 1974 Thieu publicly stated that the agreement was no longer in effect. The situation worsened the following year with the fall of Richard Nixon due to Watergate and passage of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1974 by Congress, which cut off all military aid to Saigon. This act removed the threat of air strikes should North Vietnam break the terms of the accords. Shortly after the act’s passage, North Vietnam began a limited offensive in Phuoc Long Province to test Saigon’s resolve. The province fell quickly and Hanoi pressed the attack.

 

Surprised by the ease of their advance, against largely incompetent ARVN forces, the North Vietnamese stormed through the south, and threatened Saigon. With the enemy nearing, President Gerald Ford ordered the evacuation of American personnel and embassy staff. In addition, efforts were made to remove as many friendly South Vietnamese refugees as possible. These missions were accomplished through Operations Babylift, New Life, and Frequent Wind in the weeks and days before the city fell. Advancing quickly, North Vietnamese troops finally captured Saigon on April 30, 1975. South Vietnam surrendered the same day. After thirty years of conflict, Ho Chi Minh’s vision of a united, communist Vietnam had been realized.

ToolMaker wrote:

It really depends on who teaches the history on what your take away is. 50% cloud cover, one person comes in the office and says "it's...

It really depends on who teaches the history on what your take away is. 50% cloud cover, one person comes in the office and says "it's cloudy out" next one comes in and says "it's sunny out"

Working for Peace

With the failure of the 1972 Easter Offensive, North Vietnamese leader Le Duc Tho became concerned that his nation could become isolated if President Richard Nixon's policy of détente softened relations between the United States and his allies, the Soviet Union and China. As such he relaxed the North's position in the ongoing peace negotiations and stated that the South Vietnamese government could remain in power as the two sides sought a permanent solution. Responding to this change, Nixon’s National Security Advisor, Henry Kissinger, commenced secret talks with Tho in October.  

 

After ten days, these proved successful and a draft peace document was produced. Angered at having been excluded from the talks, South Vietnamese President Nguyen Van Thieu demanded major alterations to the document and spoke out against the proposed peace. In response, the North Vietnamese published the details of the agreement and stalled the negotiations. Feeling that Hanoi had attempted to embarrass him and to force them back the table, Nixon ordered the bombing of Hanoi and Haiphong in late December 1972 (Operation Linebacker II). On January 15, 1973, after pressuring South Vietnam to accept the peace deal, Nixon announced the end of offensive operations against North Vietnam.

 

Paris Peace Accords

The Paris Peace Accords ending the conflict were signed January 27, 1973, and were followed by the withdrawal of the remaining American troops. The terms of the accords called for a complete ceasefire in South Vietnam, allowed North Vietnamese forces to retain the territory they had captured, released US prisoners of war, and called for both sides to find a political solution to the conflict. To achieve a lasting peace, the Saigon government and Vietcong were working towards a lasting settlement that would result in free and democratic elections in South Vietnam. As an enticement to Thieu, Nixon offered US airpower to enforce the peace terms.

Standing Alone, South Vietnam Falls

With US forces gone from the country, South Vietnam stood alone. Though the Paris Peace Accords were in place, fighting continued and in January 1974 Thieu publicly stated that the agreement was no longer in effect. The situation worsened the following year with the fall of Richard Nixon due to Watergate and passage of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1974 by Congress, which cut off all military aid to Saigon. This act removed the threat of air strikes should North Vietnam break the terms of the accords. Shortly after the act’s passage, North Vietnam began a limited offensive in Phuoc Long Province to test Saigon’s resolve. The province fell quickly and Hanoi pressed the attack.

 

Surprised by the ease of their advance, against largely incompetent ARVN forces, the North Vietnamese stormed through the south, and threatened Saigon. With the enemy nearing, President Gerald Ford ordered the evacuation of American personnel and embassy staff. In addition, efforts were made to remove as many friendly South Vietnamese refugees as possible. These missions were accomplished through Operations Babylift, New Life, and Frequent Wind in the weeks and days before the city fell. Advancing quickly, North Vietnamese troops finally captured Saigon on April 30, 1975. South Vietnam surrendered the same day. After thirty years of conflict, Ho Chi Minh’s vision of a united, communist Vietnam had been realized.

LoudLove wrote:

Nice synopsis, but put yourself in 1974 America. The war had taken nearly 60K US lives and over 150K casualties.  People were exhausted, and the Nixon...

Nice synopsis, but put yourself in 1974 America. The war had taken nearly 60K US lives and over 150K casualties.  People were exhausted, and the Nixon Administration had no clear path to victory, or could even define what “victory” was. As the son of a Vietnam vet and student of the war, I’m not pleased to say it was a lost cause, but there’s no other way to define it. 

ToolMaker wrote:

Can we agree Vietnam was one of the biggest cluster f#@%s in US history and leave it at that?

TM

ToolMaker wrote:

Can we agree Vietnam was one of the biggest cluster f#@%s in US history and leave it at that?

TM

LoudLove wrote:

Nice synopsis, but put yourself in 1974 America. The war had taken nearly 60K US lives and over 150K casualties.  People were exhausted, and the Nixon...

Nice synopsis, but put yourself in 1974 America. The war had taken nearly 60K US lives and over 150K casualties.  People were exhausted, and the Nixon Administration had no clear path to victory, or could even define what “victory” was. As the son of a Vietnam vet and student of the war, I’m not pleased to say it was a lost cause, but there’s no other way to define it. 

ToolMaker wrote:

Can we agree Vietnam was one of the biggest cluster f#@%s in US history and leave it at that?

TM

LoudLove wrote:

Perhaps the most concise synopsis ever generated!  Johnson dug a hole so deep he essentially quit the job as president.  My dad was in Vietnam when...

Perhaps the most concise synopsis ever generated!  

Johnson dug a hole so deep he essentially quit the job as president.  My dad was in Vietnam when LBJ announced he would not seek reelection. Imagine how the folks with family in-country felt when hearing that proclamation. To this day my dad refuses to drive on the LBJ Fwy, even as a passenger. 

ToolMaker wrote:

Can we agree Vietnam was one of the biggest cluster f#@%s in US history and leave it at that?

TM

LoudLove wrote:

Perhaps the most concise synopsis ever generated!  Johnson dug a hole so deep he essentially quit the job as president.  My dad was in Vietnam when...

Perhaps the most concise synopsis ever generated!  

Johnson dug a hole so deep he essentially quit the job as president.  My dad was in Vietnam when LBJ announced he would not seek reelection. Imagine how the folks with family in-country felt when hearing that proclamation. To this day my dad refuses to drive on the LBJ Fwy, even as a passenger. 

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

On this side of the metroplex, we refer to it as " The El BJ Expressway"...

LoudLove wrote:

Perhaps the most concise synopsis ever generated!  Johnson dug a hole so deep he essentially quit the job as president.  My dad was in Vietnam when...

Perhaps the most concise synopsis ever generated!  

Johnson dug a hole so deep he essentially quit the job as president.  My dad was in Vietnam when LBJ announced he would not seek reelection. Imagine how the folks with family in-country felt when hearing that proclamation. To this day my dad refuses to drive on the LBJ Fwy, even as a passenger. 

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

On this side of the metroplex, we refer to it as " The El BJ Expressway"...

bonseff wrote:

I thought the El BJ Expressway was Harry Hines

Kenny Banyan wrote:

The Vietnam War was an ugly episode in America history. As a young boy , I was pretty clueless about it. My parents never talked about...

The Vietnam War was an ugly episode in America history. As a young boy , I was pretty clueless about it. My parents never talked about it, looking back on it now, I believe it was because they knew that if the conflict didn’t end, that there only son might end up over there at some point. I remember the gruesome footage on the news that showed severely injured or dead soldiers being carted away on stretchers and military wreckage just about every night. For many of those years , I had no idea that those were American soldiers that I was seeing , and then the day that I realized that they were ,and the realization that , that could be me one day and then putting things together about the protest and marches were all about. Then how our poor soldiers were treated when they returned home. SMH

Kenny Banyan wrote:

The Vietnam War was an ugly episode in America history. As a young boy , I was pretty clueless about it. My parents never talked about...

The Vietnam War was an ugly episode in America history. As a young boy , I was pretty clueless about it. My parents never talked about it, looking back on it now, I believe it was because they knew that if the conflict didn’t end, that there only son might end up over there at some point. I remember the gruesome footage on the news that showed severely injured or dead soldiers being carted away on stretchers and military wreckage just about every night. For many of those years , I had no idea that those were American soldiers that I was seeing , and then the day that I realized that they were ,and the realization that , that could be me one day and then putting things together about the protest and marches were all about. Then how our poor soldiers were treated when they returned home. SMH

TeamGreen wrote:

I remember my granpa explaining to me that those dead and wounded on the news are “real”…unlike everything-else we watched on tv…those people are real…and they’re...

I remember my granpa explaining to me that those dead and wounded on the news are “real”…unlike everything-else we watched on tv…those people are real…and they’re not ever coming home to their families (the dead) or ever going to be the same (the injured).

I was around 9 or 10…& it stuck. 

Kenny Banyan wrote:

The Vietnam War was an ugly episode in America history. As a young boy , I was pretty clueless about it. My parents never talked about...

The Vietnam War was an ugly episode in America history. As a young boy , I was pretty clueless about it. My parents never talked about it, looking back on it now, I believe it was because they knew that if the conflict didn’t end, that there only son might end up over there at some point. I remember the gruesome footage on the news that showed severely injured or dead soldiers being carted away on stretchers and military wreckage just about every night. For many of those years , I had no idea that those were American soldiers that I was seeing , and then the day that I realized that they were ,and the realization that , that could be me one day and then putting things together about the protest and marches were all about. Then how our poor soldiers were treated when they returned home. SMH

TeamGreen wrote:

I remember my granpa explaining to me that those dead and wounded on the news are “real”…unlike everything-else we watched on tv…those people are real…and they’re...

I remember my granpa explaining to me that those dead and wounded on the news are “real”…unlike everything-else we watched on tv…those people are real…and they’re not ever coming home to their families (the dead) or ever going to be the same (the injured).

I was around 9 or 10…& it stuck. 

Kenny Banyan wrote:

💔

TeamGreen wrote:

I remember my granpa explaining to me that those dead and wounded on the news are “real”…unlike everything-else we watched on tv…those people are real…and they’re...

I remember my granpa explaining to me that those dead and wounded on the news are “real”…unlike everything-else we watched on tv…those people are real…and they’re not ever coming home to their families (the dead) or ever going to be the same (the injured).

I was around 9 or 10…& it stuck. 

Kenny Banyan wrote:

💔

LoudLove wrote:

My dad was a Forward Air Controller (FAC) flying Cessna O-1s and O-2s out of Nakhon Phanom in Thailand (think “Bat 21”, although I haven’t seen...

My dad was a Forward Air Controller (FAC) flying Cessna O-1s and O-2s out of Nakhon Phanom in Thailand (think “Bat 21”, although I haven’t seen that film). Second only to helicopters in mortality rate. 222 missions in 365 days. And only shot down twice!

Kenny Banyan wrote:

The Vietnam War was an ugly episode in America history. As a young boy , I was pretty clueless about it. My parents never talked about...

The Vietnam War was an ugly episode in America history. As a young boy , I was pretty clueless about it. My parents never talked about it, looking back on it now, I believe it was because they knew that if the conflict didn’t end, that there only son might end up over there at some point. I remember the gruesome footage on the news that showed severely injured or dead soldiers being carted away on stretchers and military wreckage just about every night. For many of those years , I had no idea that those were American soldiers that I was seeing , and then the day that I realized that they were ,and the realization that , that could be me one day and then putting things together about the protest and marches were all about. Then how our poor soldiers were treated when they returned home. SMH

TeamGreen wrote:

I remember my granpa explaining to me that those dead and wounded on the news are “real”…unlike everything-else we watched on tv…those people are real…and they’re...

I remember my granpa explaining to me that those dead and wounded on the news are “real”…unlike everything-else we watched on tv…those people are real…and they’re not ever coming home to their families (the dead) or ever going to be the same (the injured).

I was around 9 or 10…& it stuck. 

ToolMaker wrote:

Pretty sure we can all agree on that. Pretty sure we can all agree that war sucks. Having said that, there are times in history that...

Pretty sure we can all agree on that. Pretty sure we can all agree that war sucks. Having said that, there are times in history that war was needed to fix things. This war, if you want to call it that, has been anything but conventional. If this gets resolved int the next 2 weeks, this will redefine how war is done. Hopefully, this will stop a lot of potential wars before they ever get started because they see the might of the USA, and that we possibly could intervene and crush them like the cockroaches they are.

TM