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Good discussion on LVK about comparing these two. One thing to point out. Lewis cited Herlings overall win count as a definitive reason to favor Herlings (among others, to be fair). But in MXGP the count is much closer- 53 to 47 in favor of Herlings. And given Tim's advantage in MXGP titles, 4 vs 2, I'd give the edge to Tim.
Both are all-timers.
Herlings stayed in MX2 too long, but injuries hampered him , and what was the benefit for KTM when they had Cairoli winning?
How many of Gajser's titles have been won against a fit Herlings and Vice Versa ?
Will do LvK tomorrow, unless there is an MXGP pod.
Tim has the better 450 resume. Almost as many wins, double the titles. He also looked like the best guy last year until he got injured. He was in another league. I can't believe he left the bike he looked so good on. The pay cut they offered him must have been insane. Gajser is still together with Dungey probably the most underrated champion of this generation.
Also the argument that he won titles when Herlings was injured isn't fair when Herlings is injured every second season. You gotta stay in it to win it.
But Herlings is a very special rider and will always be remembered for his absurd speed and the speed doesn't seem to go away even with all the injuries stacking up over the years. Just this weekend for example, he was in 4th 15 seconds behind the lead with seven minutes to go. 3 laps later he's battling and passing for the win. Ironically he rarely gets injured from high speed crashes, he is the rider that tips over and has a broken collarbone etc, while Seewer flies 50 meters through the air and stands up like nothing happened.
I've seen him live in 2018 once and he made the MXGP field look like they were amateurs. It's really hard to describe and something you won't forget. He is in a very special category together with 2 or 3 other riders.
Though I'm not a fan of MXGP constantly showing the combined wins record. Herlings has more MX2 than MXGP wins. Nobody will ever get to close to this win record with the Mx2 age rule.
By the way Cairoli has 70 wins in MXGP/MX1 alone. Herlings is at 53 or 54 now. He might actually get him if he continues after this year. That would be nuts. Cairoli is still the absolute king of this generation, but both Herlings and Gajser are obviously all timers like you said.
Edge to Herlings for not only his sheer amount of wins, but his dominant seasons and rides. Greatest MXGP rider though, probably Stefan Everts or Tony Cairoli, although some argue Joël Robert or Roger DeCoster.
Fan of both, and completely different riding styles that are equally exciting to watch.
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I lean more toward giving the edge to Gajser. The ultimate goal is to win championships, not races. My guess is Herlings would trade those wins for championships in a heartbeat. This is coming from a huge Herlings fan, but the reality is one guy has 4 championships and the other has 2. It’s not like Herlings has 50 more wins than Gajser either, it’s only 6 more. Was Herlings more “dominant” in his prime? Sure. But that means nothing in the records books.
in their entire career I would pick Herlings head to head.
One of them gets injured every time he tips over while the other somehow gets up any time he grenades himself. Is that a skill? Maybe
I can't take Gajser over Herlings. He's never been better than him
The goal is to win titles, but there are many other variables at play. For example, RC has more 125 titles than James Stewart, but many consider James the greatest 125cc racer of all time -- mostly because of his wins and sheer dominance over the competition. Likewise, many consider Roger DeCoster or Antonio Cairoli the GOAT of Europe, but both have less titles than Stefan Everts. Some would argue that Everts faced less competition than Cairoli, or that he'd likely have less titles if certain riders didn't make the move out of the class and to America to race.
The record books record wins/win percentages/titles and things like that, but they do not account for other variables such as how competitive the class was. Roman Febvre won the 2025 MXGP title, and that in an of itself is a major accomplishment that he should be very proud of. But the facts are that some major players were out for most of the season and the class wasn't as stacked as previous years. All this should be considered when talking about all-time greats.
Compagnie herlings to gaiser .l think gaiser is a great rider ,but how many titles and races has he won against a fit herlings?.????????
Probably zero because since his rookie season herlings hasn't really had a single full and healthy season or am I missing something?
That's right ,Cairoli was the king of his generation,,but herlings and gaiser don't belong to that generation....
Only one came to the US, on a loaner bike, on a track he’d never ridden, and made our riders look silly.
There’s an interview with Corvers (Yamaha team boss) that explains the split between Gajser and Honda and it’s very eye opening. In a nutshell: Corvers did not expect Gajser to become available and the split was pushed by Gariboldi himself.
I interviewed Roger Harvey of HRC a few weeks ago and he said the deal with Vialle was done very early, i didnt push him on the Gajser split as it wasnt the right place to do it, but he said that the chance to finally get JH was something they were really happy with, and they had almost had him once before.
Both guys needed a change IMO , and its great to see them both able to take race wins against a fully fit field.
Its going to be a long month.
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"his generation" I mean that dude raced for 3 generations, it's hard to pointpoint where he belongs to 😂
The Cairoli era was between stefan everts and herlings/ gaiser ....
Tim 450 titles.
It's not about jh84 sand.bagging the 250 to avoid a prime caroli
How often have you seen herlings ride in real life.....?.I don't think often otherwise you wound't say such nonsense.......
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How is it even close??? I've never understood why people disrespect Gajser so much. He has twice the MXGP championships. That is the deciding factor. That's why they have a championship is to decide who is the best. Tim is much much better.
What’s the stat on total times they’ve raced each other & who has beat who more ? I’m pretty confident Jeffrey would have beaten Tim more times than not but it might be closer than I think.
Have a deep dive into the top competition Everts was facing that left and went to America. I think if they had of stayed Stefan wouldn't have racked up 10 titles.
In his peak Honda days Gajser was always such a calculating rider. Taking alternate lines, exploring the track for passing opportunities or just more speed. Had his fair share of injuries too just nowhere near Herlings misfortunes.
Good point about Cairoli I do not think Herlings would of beaten him on the 450s
That's interesting as I thought it was Gajsers idea to leave Honda
2016 - Gajser world title number one, Herlings still in MX2.
2017 - Herlings came in injured, Gajser got injured halfway. Cairoli champ.
2018 - Herlings world title number one, Gajser broke his jaw pre-season in Mantova.
2019 - Gajser title number two, Herlings injured.
2020 - Gajser title number three, Herlings injured.
2021 - Herlings title number two, this was a very close one, despite Herlings picking up an injury halfway.
2022 - Gajser title number four, Herlings injured.
2023 - Both Herlings and Gajser injured, Prado champ.
2024 - A very close battle between Prado and Gajser, Herlings a little distant third.
2025 - Both Herlings and Gajser injured, Febvre champ.
So 2021 and 2024 are really the only years where they both went head to head for a full season. Herlings missed three motos though, so he was just outright better in 2021. In 2024, neither became champion, but Gajser came closer than Herlings. If not for destroying his footpeg in the penultimate round, he could've won his fifth title that year.
100%. That ride alone puts JH on top for me...
I think in 2021 Gajser broke his collarbone or dislocated his shoulder during the season right before Sardegna GP. Thats not missing 3 motos due ot injury, but it did affect him that GP pretty bad.
Yeah Gajser had 2 bad motos, Herlings missed 4 and Herlings still wiped the floor with everyone even though his shoulder was broken after being landed on, on lap 1.
Gajser has the superior 450 resume, unquestionably. The question was who's career would you take? Man, thats a tough call. Do you value accolades or aura more? Tim has more big boy titles but peak Herlings could be the fastest rider ever. Its quite similar to RV and Dunge outdoors. Dunge has 39 wins vs RV's 13 wins. 3 titles vs RV's 2. Dunge also finished 2nd two season that he took the championship down to the last race. Do all the people who choose Herlings over Tim also choose Dungey over RV?
If i were to compare herlings to an american rider,it would be james stewart.........and i also think haiden deegan looks a lot like the young herlings.......
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