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Access to an illegal line that rules disallowed.
That aside, I'm in the camp of removing the win is dumb. Ding him with points and move on. A simple rule definition of "positions gained + X points" would be easy enough; in this case no positions gained so no position docked.
Also, as has been pointed out, this incident in a vacuum isnt that bad. But the inconsistency is crazy with these penalties (or lack of). And poor Jo getting the short end of the stick in both controversial 250 rulings this year.
They penalized others as I understood it, so they most likely communicated that it's black or white calls unless someone "helps you" break the rule. Can't imagine everyone gained an advantage.
If they had racer discretionary or non-blatant violations in there it's something else.
The answer is in the future. If they continue black and white when needed, it's ok. Outdoor will be interesting. But also different rules can apply.
If Deegan gets hurt with 2 races left, and wins title by 2 points and they didn't apply it as communicated?
How were you responding to me when that was my first post in this thread?
Access to an illegal line” is not automatically a net advantage. The rule isn't “Any entry into an illegal line constitutes an advantage.” Yes, being in the illegal line is the conduct that starts the application of the rule, but it doesn't end there. Whether that conduct produced a net advantage is a separate discretionary determination. I will side w/ JT & the other talking heads when they claim there was no advantage and disagree with the AMA and you finding that there was one.
But I do agree the whole thing would be pretty moot if the penalty was just a loss of championship points and not a position which takes away a win.
The rules are not strict‑liability regime or written in "black in white" where every violation is a penalty. In reality the AMA rules = discretionary penalty system based on judgment and this is the part they keep fucking up.
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It’s impossible to quantify exactly how much he gained, but he likely gained some (small) amount of time. And he violated a rule that was apparently made clear during the riders meeting.
The really dumb thing is that he didn’t need any advantage, he won the race easily, just to lose the win breaking a rule that was clear from the start.
If you can’t quantify it, can’t demonstrate it, and can’t show he ended up ahead of where he should’ve been, then you don’t have an advantage. All you got is a guess. And honestly, the advantage isn’t even the real issue. AMA clearly thinks there was one, so fine, we defer to them as they are the judge, jury, and executioner. The issue is the selective enforcement (or lack) of the rules and penalties.
With Deegan they’re throwing the entire book at a minor, low‑impact violation while letting far more blatant, high‑impact stuff slide without a whisper or barely one like we saw in both Dallas and Indy.
Deegan fans are loyal, that’s for sure..
Hey Grape!! Hope your are well my brother.
Here's my take. My issue isn't that he was penalized. It's the actual penalty and the inconsistency in which the AMA does business. Typically, when they find out an infraction occurred post race as in Deegan's case, it is a points deduction and a loss of the difference in purse money. If the infraction is caught during the race, like with Marchbanks, then they asses the position penalty. This begs the question, does this set the standard for the track markers for outdoors? If so, it's gonna be a long summer of penalties since it seems the riders only see them as "suggestions."
They have got to start being more consistent. It seems to be a weekly occurrence and they continue to lose credibility with the riders as well as the core fan group. The biggest issue IMO, is that they are all friends and there is no one that holds them to a high standard of accountability.
They could just line the track with these things.
How come the AMA hasn't responded to this topic yet?
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