So if you came in possession of the Epstein list…

vet323
Posts
3608
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Lead, SD, USA
12/23/2025 8:06am
mvd61 wrote:
Ahhh man. Trump belly aching about tarnished reputations and it’s all Massie’s fault. Trump get dumber by the day. Oh no! Not the bankers! Not the...

Ahhh man. Trump belly aching about tarnished reputations and it’s all Massie’s fault. Trump get dumber by the day. Oh no! Not the bankers! Not the politicians! Not the top executives! Not foreign govt agents and diplomats! What will we ever do if these scum fucks have to prove their innocence???? Tge nerve of that Massie guy. What a turd. 

Because that's our justice system, "prove your innocence"?

3
mvd61
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Brandon, SD, USA
12/23/2025 8:15am
mvd61 wrote:
Ahhh man. Trump belly aching about tarnished reputations and it’s all Massie’s fault. Trump get dumber by the day. Oh no! Not the bankers! Not the...

Ahhh man. Trump belly aching about tarnished reputations and it’s all Massie’s fault. Trump get dumber by the day. Oh no! Not the bankers! Not the politicians! Not the top executives! Not foreign govt agents and diplomats! What will we ever do if these scum fucks have to prove their innocence???? Tge nerve of that Massie guy. What a turd. 

vet323 wrote:

Because that's our justice system, "prove your innocence"?

So now you’re going to point to cases where people didn’t have to prove innocence? I know it’s supposed to be innocent until proven guilty but come on dude. You know better. Bottom line is fuck them. They knew who they were hanging out with. Don’t be naive. 

1
5
MPJC
Posts
2083
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Location
CA
Fantasy
12/23/2025 8:35am
mvd61 wrote:
Ahhh man. Trump belly aching about tarnished reputations and it’s all Massie’s fault. Trump get dumber by the day. Oh no! Not the bankers! Not the...

Ahhh man. Trump belly aching about tarnished reputations and it’s all Massie’s fault. Trump get dumber by the day. Oh no! Not the bankers! Not the politicians! Not the top executives! Not foreign govt agents and diplomats! What will we ever do if these scum fucks have to prove their innocence???? Tge nerve of that Massie guy. What a turd. 

vet323 wrote:

Because that's our justice system, "prove your innocence"?

mvd61 wrote:
So now you’re going to point to cases where people didn’t have to prove innocence? I know it’s supposed to be innocent until proven guilty but...

So now you’re going to point to cases where people didn’t have to prove innocence? I know it’s supposed to be innocent until proven guilty but come on dude. You know better. Bottom line is fuck them. They knew who they were hanging out with. Don’t be naive. 

The innocent can't always prove their innocence. I recall, for example, seeing that Epstein would sometimes host gatherings of academics. Some of them hung out with him regularly (apparently Noam Chomsky was one such person, also Lawrence Krauss, who continued to defend Epstein after his 2008 conviction and was himself accused of sexual harassment during his time as a professor). But I also saw an interview with Dan Dennett, who had attended one of these functions, where he was asked about Epstein. He seemed puzzled by the whole thing and seemed to think Epstein was an idiot. Dennett has since passed away, but suppose he hadn't: Would Dan Dennett, just by the mere fact that he attended one of these events, have to prove that he didn't sexually assault any girls? If so, how would he do that? Dennett claimed that he'd never heard of Epstein so if that's true, then he didn't know who he was hanging out with. Fuck Chomsky and Krauss. But I have no reason to impugn Dennett. Would you treat someone like Dennett just like Chomsky and Krauss? 

1
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mvd61
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Brandon, SD, USA
12/23/2025 9:04am
vet323 wrote:

Because that's our justice system, "prove your innocence"?

mvd61 wrote:
So now you’re going to point to cases where people didn’t have to prove innocence? I know it’s supposed to be innocent until proven guilty but...

So now you’re going to point to cases where people didn’t have to prove innocence? I know it’s supposed to be innocent until proven guilty but come on dude. You know better. Bottom line is fuck them. They knew who they were hanging out with. Don’t be naive. 

MPJC wrote:
The innocent can't always prove their innocence. I recall, for example, seeing that Epstein would sometimes host gatherings of academics. Some of them hung out with...

The innocent can't always prove their innocence. I recall, for example, seeing that Epstein would sometimes host gatherings of academics. Some of them hung out with him regularly (apparently Noam Chomsky was one such person, also Lawrence Krauss, who continued to defend Epstein after his 2008 conviction and was himself accused of sexual harassment during his time as a professor). But I also saw an interview with Dan Dennett, who had attended one of these functions, where he was asked about Epstein. He seemed puzzled by the whole thing and seemed to think Epstein was an idiot. Dennett has since passed away, but suppose he hadn't: Would Dan Dennett, just by the mere fact that he attended one of these events, have to prove that he didn't sexually assault any girls? If so, how would he do that? Dennett claimed that he'd never heard of Epstein so if that's true, then he didn't know who he was hanging out with. Fuck Chomsky and Krauss. But I have no reason to impugn Dennett. Would you treat someone like Dennett just like Chomsky and Krauss? 

I care not a single fuck when there are thousands of victims who will never see justice served. If a few good fall then so be it. There’s always casualties of war. Most of these people who Donnie is worried about have the means to live out peaceful lives and never need to go in the public again anyway. Let’s be real. It’s not like any court cases are going to be brought against anyone. 

5

The Shop

TeamGreen
Posts
37293
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12/23/2025 9:44am
MPJC wrote:
"I also believe that most people are mostly good. It’s just that we live in a world where bad behavior is rewarded."What evidence is there for...

"I also believe that most people are mostly good. It’s just that we live in a world where bad behavior is rewarded."

What evidence is there for this belief?  It's a nice belief, but anthropologists keep finding evidence of brutality and violence. That just might be our default state, and civil society is what keeps it in check. I'd like to be wrong about that. 

https://michaelshermer.com/sciam-columns/the-ignoble-savage/

 

 Anthropological evidence can be interpreted in so many ways. There's a ton of anthropological evidence that points towards mutual aid being the catalyst for our civil...

 Anthropological evidence can be interpreted in so many ways. There's a ton of anthropological evidence that points towards mutual aid being the catalyst for our civil and advanced society. There's also a lot of evidence showing Paleolithic communities took care of individuals that were both mentally and physically disabled. 

Is our present state, which is a wonderful achievement in organization not proof enough that mutual aid has played a larger role in the evolution of humankind than brutality and violence? Sure we bash each other skulls in, but we choose to get along more often than not because we know its more beneficial to do so.

Science and the metaphysical aspects of ecology strongly suggest the interconnectedness of all things, both animate and inanimate. Science has proven (and we don't even need science to prove this, we see it everyday in the most basic observation of our lives) "from quantum particles to vast ecosystems, changes in one part ripple through the whole system, demonstrating a fundamental unity and interdependence across the planet, the universe and all things within it." 

Taking is how we survive. I need food so I kill plants and animals to feed myself. Plants and animals kill each other to feed themselves too. But its when killing is done needlessly that karma steps in. And it weighs down a heavy burden of our conscience. There may be no right or wrong, but there is a positive and a negative and its always more pleasant to be positive.

As far as I can tell, my belief that most people are mostly good is no more of less a belief that the contrary is true. So you go around believing that human beings (and you must inherently expand this to the universe as a whole), to be a bad, and brutal, and savage, place or thing to be. But how can this be? For we are, for I am. The universe is expanding, there is more light than darkness. The fact that we sit here right now and discuss this I think proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that good, or positive, always wins out over bad, or negative. Darkness is just the absence of light, whereas light includes darkness and just adds to it.

Either way even if I have not convinced you, would you rather go about perceiving the world as one who has faith in (believes in) humanity and the universe ( in a pantheistic sense)? Or would you rather go about your day believing in the fall of man, the non-connectedness of man with and within his environment and that brutality and violence is a fact of Nature greater than that of birth and creativity?... Considering these are both just beliefs and say we consider that there is equal validity to both, if one chooses to believe in the ultimate negativity of Nature, then what you are accepting or agreeing with, amounts to what is ultimately the belief in original sin.

There is no such thing as an atheist. People have no choice but to believe in one or the other of these two options. Using biblical terminology (I understand god from a Pantheist perspective btw, but its sometimes easiest to use biblical terminology), one chooses each and everyday to wake up and serve either the prince of darkness, or the God of light. Its a no-brainer in my mind which one (which idea) I choose to serve.

MPJC wrote:
I can't help but be struck by the fact that we're discussing the goodness of humanity in a thread about something so awful - young girls...

I can't help but be struck by the fact that we're discussing the goodness of humanity in a thread about something so awful - young girls who suffered through a horrific experience of exploitation.. You claim that the fact that we are here discussing proves that good wins out. For whom? Us? Perhaps, but it so often doesn't seem to - and we can't speak on behalf of those for whom it doesn't.. As Dostoevsky so eloquently showed, when one tortured soul is enduring unimaginable torment, cosmic justice ceases to matter, and  the thought of it  can actually become quite offensive: . 

"You see, Alyosha, perhaps it really will happen like that, and I shall live to see it or be resurrected, and then perhaps I too, seeing the mother embracing her child’s torturer. will cry out in unison with them, “You are just, O Lord,” but it will be against my will. While there’s still time I want to guard myself against this, and therefore I absolutely reject that higher harmony. It’s not worth one little tear from one single little tortured child, beating its breast with its little fists in its foul-smelling lock-up, and praying with its unexpiated tears to its “Dear Father God!” No, it’s not worth this, because those tears have remained unexpiated. And they have to be expiated, otherwise there can be no harmony. But how, how can they be expiated? Surely it isn’t possible? Or is it going to be done by avenging them? But what’s the good of avenging them, what’s the good of consigning their murderers to hell, what good can hell do when the children have already been tortured to death? And how can harmony exist if hell exists too? I want forgiveness, I want to embrace everyone, I want an end to suffering. And if the suffering of children is required to make up the total suffering necessary to attain the truth, then I say here and now that no truth is worth such a price. And above all, I don’t want the mother to embrace the torturer whose dogs tore her son apart! She has no right to forgive him! Let her, if she will, forgive him her own suffering, her own extreme anguish as a mother, but she has no right to forgive the suffering of her mutilated child; even if the child himself forgives, she has no right! And if that is so, if the right to forgive does not exist, then where is harmony? Is there in all the world a single being who could forgive and has the right to do so? I don’t want harmony; for the love of humankind, I don’t want it. I would rather that suffering were not avenged. I would prefer to keep my suffering unavenged and my abhorrence unplacated, even at the risk of being wrong. Besides, the price of harmony has been set too high, we can’t afford the entrance fee. And that’s why I hasten to return my entry ticket. If I ever want to call myself an honest man, I have to hand it back as soon as possible. And that’s exactly what I’m doing. It’s not that I don’t accept God, Alyosha; I’m just, with the utmost respect, handing Him back my ticket.”

You’d covered it with…

I can't help but be struck by the fact that we're discussing the goodness of humanity in a thread about something so awful - young girls who suffered through a horrific experience of exploitation...

Hi-5 for that.

Hope you and yours are doing well and may you have the Merriest of Christmases or whatever it is you celebrate…may it be wonderful and joyous.

Also…

Remember, we never lost Lemmy & Ozzy…and we never will. You can still hear them, can’t you?! 

1
1
El_Rayo
Posts
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Location
Valparaiso, IN, USA
Fantasy
12/23/2025 9:48am Edited Date/Time 12/23/2025 9:49am

Remember that gymnastics  Doctor that worked for Team USA, the one who SA’d 150+ girls? And was caught with Child P?


New documents reveal, that Epstein personally wrote him a letter while he was in prison. He assured him:

 “We share one thing … our love and caring for young ladies and the hope they’d reach their full potential. Our President also shares our love of young, nubile girls”


Freaking disgusting. 
 

https://www.cnn.com/2025/12/23/politics/larry-nassar-epstein-files-letter
 

2
1
MPJC
Posts
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Location
CA
Fantasy
12/23/2025 10:02am
 Anthropological evidence can be interpreted in so many ways. There's a ton of anthropological evidence that points towards mutual aid being the catalyst for our civil...

 Anthropological evidence can be interpreted in so many ways. There's a ton of anthropological evidence that points towards mutual aid being the catalyst for our civil and advanced society. There's also a lot of evidence showing Paleolithic communities took care of individuals that were both mentally and physically disabled. 

Is our present state, which is a wonderful achievement in organization not proof enough that mutual aid has played a larger role in the evolution of humankind than brutality and violence? Sure we bash each other skulls in, but we choose to get along more often than not because we know its more beneficial to do so.

Science and the metaphysical aspects of ecology strongly suggest the interconnectedness of all things, both animate and inanimate. Science has proven (and we don't even need science to prove this, we see it everyday in the most basic observation of our lives) "from quantum particles to vast ecosystems, changes in one part ripple through the whole system, demonstrating a fundamental unity and interdependence across the planet, the universe and all things within it." 

Taking is how we survive. I need food so I kill plants and animals to feed myself. Plants and animals kill each other to feed themselves too. But its when killing is done needlessly that karma steps in. And it weighs down a heavy burden of our conscience. There may be no right or wrong, but there is a positive and a negative and its always more pleasant to be positive.

As far as I can tell, my belief that most people are mostly good is no more of less a belief that the contrary is true. So you go around believing that human beings (and you must inherently expand this to the universe as a whole), to be a bad, and brutal, and savage, place or thing to be. But how can this be? For we are, for I am. The universe is expanding, there is more light than darkness. The fact that we sit here right now and discuss this I think proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that good, or positive, always wins out over bad, or negative. Darkness is just the absence of light, whereas light includes darkness and just adds to it.

Either way even if I have not convinced you, would you rather go about perceiving the world as one who has faith in (believes in) humanity and the universe ( in a pantheistic sense)? Or would you rather go about your day believing in the fall of man, the non-connectedness of man with and within his environment and that brutality and violence is a fact of Nature greater than that of birth and creativity?... Considering these are both just beliefs and say we consider that there is equal validity to both, if one chooses to believe in the ultimate negativity of Nature, then what you are accepting or agreeing with, amounts to what is ultimately the belief in original sin.

There is no such thing as an atheist. People have no choice but to believe in one or the other of these two options. Using biblical terminology (I understand god from a Pantheist perspective btw, but its sometimes easiest to use biblical terminology), one chooses each and everyday to wake up and serve either the prince of darkness, or the God of light. Its a no-brainer in my mind which one (which idea) I choose to serve.

MPJC wrote:
I can't help but be struck by the fact that we're discussing the goodness of humanity in a thread about something so awful - young girls...

I can't help but be struck by the fact that we're discussing the goodness of humanity in a thread about something so awful - young girls who suffered through a horrific experience of exploitation.. You claim that the fact that we are here discussing proves that good wins out. For whom? Us? Perhaps, but it so often doesn't seem to - and we can't speak on behalf of those for whom it doesn't.. As Dostoevsky so eloquently showed, when one tortured soul is enduring unimaginable torment, cosmic justice ceases to matter, and  the thought of it  can actually become quite offensive: . 

"You see, Alyosha, perhaps it really will happen like that, and I shall live to see it or be resurrected, and then perhaps I too, seeing the mother embracing her child’s torturer. will cry out in unison with them, “You are just, O Lord,” but it will be against my will. While there’s still time I want to guard myself against this, and therefore I absolutely reject that higher harmony. It’s not worth one little tear from one single little tortured child, beating its breast with its little fists in its foul-smelling lock-up, and praying with its unexpiated tears to its “Dear Father God!” No, it’s not worth this, because those tears have remained unexpiated. And they have to be expiated, otherwise there can be no harmony. But how, how can they be expiated? Surely it isn’t possible? Or is it going to be done by avenging them? But what’s the good of avenging them, what’s the good of consigning their murderers to hell, what good can hell do when the children have already been tortured to death? And how can harmony exist if hell exists too? I want forgiveness, I want to embrace everyone, I want an end to suffering. And if the suffering of children is required to make up the total suffering necessary to attain the truth, then I say here and now that no truth is worth such a price. And above all, I don’t want the mother to embrace the torturer whose dogs tore her son apart! She has no right to forgive him! Let her, if she will, forgive him her own suffering, her own extreme anguish as a mother, but she has no right to forgive the suffering of her mutilated child; even if the child himself forgives, she has no right! And if that is so, if the right to forgive does not exist, then where is harmony? Is there in all the world a single being who could forgive and has the right to do so? I don’t want harmony; for the love of humankind, I don’t want it. I would rather that suffering were not avenged. I would prefer to keep my suffering unavenged and my abhorrence unplacated, even at the risk of being wrong. Besides, the price of harmony has been set too high, we can’t afford the entrance fee. And that’s why I hasten to return my entry ticket. If I ever want to call myself an honest man, I have to hand it back as soon as possible. And that’s exactly what I’m doing. It’s not that I don’t accept God, Alyosha; I’m just, with the utmost respect, handing Him back my ticket.”

TeamGreen wrote:
You’d covered it with…I can't help but be struck by the fact that we're discussing the goodness of humanity in a thread about something so awful...

You’d covered it with…

I can't help but be struck by the fact that we're discussing the goodness of humanity in a thread about something so awful - young girls who suffered through a horrific experience of exploitation...

Hi-5 for that.

Hope you and yours are doing well and may you have the Merriest of Christmases or whatever it is you celebrate…may it be wonderful and joyous.

Also…

Remember, we never lost Lemmy & Ozzy…and we never will. You can still hear them, can’t you?! 

Thank you. Merry Christmas to you and yours as well!  

Yes, I can still hear them. Always will! 

1
TeamGreen
Posts
37293
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
12/23/2025 10:04am
MPJC wrote:
I can't help but be struck by the fact that we're discussing the goodness of humanity in a thread about something so awful - young girls...

I can't help but be struck by the fact that we're discussing the goodness of humanity in a thread about something so awful - young girls who suffered through a horrific experience of exploitation.. You claim that the fact that we are here discussing proves that good wins out. For whom? Us? Perhaps, but it so often doesn't seem to - and we can't speak on behalf of those for whom it doesn't.. As Dostoevsky so eloquently showed, when one tortured soul is enduring unimaginable torment, cosmic justice ceases to matter, and  the thought of it  can actually become quite offensive: . 

"You see, Alyosha, perhaps it really will happen like that, and I shall live to see it or be resurrected, and then perhaps I too, seeing the mother embracing her child’s torturer. will cry out in unison with them, “You are just, O Lord,” but it will be against my will. While there’s still time I want to guard myself against this, and therefore I absolutely reject that higher harmony. It’s not worth one little tear from one single little tortured child, beating its breast with its little fists in its foul-smelling lock-up, and praying with its unexpiated tears to its “Dear Father God!” No, it’s not worth this, because those tears have remained unexpiated. And they have to be expiated, otherwise there can be no harmony. But how, how can they be expiated? Surely it isn’t possible? Or is it going to be done by avenging them? But what’s the good of avenging them, what’s the good of consigning their murderers to hell, what good can hell do when the children have already been tortured to death? And how can harmony exist if hell exists too? I want forgiveness, I want to embrace everyone, I want an end to suffering. And if the suffering of children is required to make up the total suffering necessary to attain the truth, then I say here and now that no truth is worth such a price. And above all, I don’t want the mother to embrace the torturer whose dogs tore her son apart! She has no right to forgive him! Let her, if she will, forgive him her own suffering, her own extreme anguish as a mother, but she has no right to forgive the suffering of her mutilated child; even if the child himself forgives, she has no right! And if that is so, if the right to forgive does not exist, then where is harmony? Is there in all the world a single being who could forgive and has the right to do so? I don’t want harmony; for the love of humankind, I don’t want it. I would rather that suffering were not avenged. I would prefer to keep my suffering unavenged and my abhorrence unplacated, even at the risk of being wrong. Besides, the price of harmony has been set too high, we can’t afford the entrance fee. And that’s why I hasten to return my entry ticket. If I ever want to call myself an honest man, I have to hand it back as soon as possible. And that’s exactly what I’m doing. It’s not that I don’t accept God, Alyosha; I’m just, with the utmost respect, handing Him back my ticket.”

TeamGreen wrote:
You’d covered it with…I can't help but be struck by the fact that we're discussing the goodness of humanity in a thread about something so awful...

You’d covered it with…

I can't help but be struck by the fact that we're discussing the goodness of humanity in a thread about something so awful - young girls who suffered through a horrific experience of exploitation...

Hi-5 for that.

Hope you and yours are doing well and may you have the Merriest of Christmases or whatever it is you celebrate…may it be wonderful and joyous.

Also…

Remember, we never lost Lemmy & Ozzy…and we never will. You can still hear them, can’t you?! 

MPJC wrote:

Thank you. Merry Christmas to you and yours as well!  

Yes, I can still hear them. Always will! 

💪🏼

1
byke
Posts
3093
Joined
8/12/2015
Location
Auburn, CA, USA
12/23/2025 10:07am
vet323 wrote:

Because that's our justice system, "prove your innocence"?

mvd61 wrote:
So now you’re going to point to cases where people didn’t have to prove innocence? I know it’s supposed to be innocent until proven guilty but...

So now you’re going to point to cases where people didn’t have to prove innocence? I know it’s supposed to be innocent until proven guilty but come on dude. You know better. Bottom line is fuck them. They knew who they were hanging out with. Don’t be naive. 

MPJC wrote:
The innocent can't always prove their innocence. I recall, for example, seeing that Epstein would sometimes host gatherings of academics. Some of them hung out with...

The innocent can't always prove their innocence. I recall, for example, seeing that Epstein would sometimes host gatherings of academics. Some of them hung out with him regularly (apparently Noam Chomsky was one such person, also Lawrence Krauss, who continued to defend Epstein after his 2008 conviction and was himself accused of sexual harassment during his time as a professor). But I also saw an interview with Dan Dennett, who had attended one of these functions, where he was asked about Epstein. He seemed puzzled by the whole thing and seemed to think Epstein was an idiot. Dennett has since passed away, but suppose he hadn't: Would Dan Dennett, just by the mere fact that he attended one of these events, have to prove that he didn't sexually assault any girls? If so, how would he do that? Dennett claimed that he'd never heard of Epstein so if that's true, then he didn't know who he was hanging out with. Fuck Chomsky and Krauss. But I have no reason to impugn Dennett. Would you treat someone like Dennett just like Chomsky and Krauss? 

Totality of events. I'd completely agree if it were a few pics with the guys, we should allow a lot of space for innocence, but his history of being a perv creep goes back to the 70's..? At least the 80's. Trump has a long list of slimeball moments and the pics and association with Epstein is very consistent with his character, or lack thereof. Far more consistent than not. For as much as everyone knows that Clinton is a creep, they should know the same about Trump. It's solely the fact that-that obvious truth isn't what makes people happy, that causes total snow blindness (snow being cum in this circumstance). It's still shocking to see this many adults, in the tens of millions, performing playground levels of manipulation dishonesty while simultaneously thinking that they're pulling it off. 

3
MPJC
Posts
2083
Joined
5/18/2017
Location
CA
Fantasy
12/23/2025 10:35am
mvd61 wrote:
So now you’re going to point to cases where people didn’t have to prove innocence? I know it’s supposed to be innocent until proven guilty but...

So now you’re going to point to cases where people didn’t have to prove innocence? I know it’s supposed to be innocent until proven guilty but come on dude. You know better. Bottom line is fuck them. They knew who they were hanging out with. Don’t be naive. 

MPJC wrote:
The innocent can't always prove their innocence. I recall, for example, seeing that Epstein would sometimes host gatherings of academics. Some of them hung out with...

The innocent can't always prove their innocence. I recall, for example, seeing that Epstein would sometimes host gatherings of academics. Some of them hung out with him regularly (apparently Noam Chomsky was one such person, also Lawrence Krauss, who continued to defend Epstein after his 2008 conviction and was himself accused of sexual harassment during his time as a professor). But I also saw an interview with Dan Dennett, who had attended one of these functions, where he was asked about Epstein. He seemed puzzled by the whole thing and seemed to think Epstein was an idiot. Dennett has since passed away, but suppose he hadn't: Would Dan Dennett, just by the mere fact that he attended one of these events, have to prove that he didn't sexually assault any girls? If so, how would he do that? Dennett claimed that he'd never heard of Epstein so if that's true, then he didn't know who he was hanging out with. Fuck Chomsky and Krauss. But I have no reason to impugn Dennett. Would you treat someone like Dennett just like Chomsky and Krauss? 

byke wrote:
Totality of events. I'd completely agree if it were a few pics with the guys, we should allow a lot of space for innocence, but his...

Totality of events. I'd completely agree if it were a few pics with the guys, we should allow a lot of space for innocence, but his history of being a perv creep goes back to the 70's..? At least the 80's. Trump has a long list of slimeball moments and the pics and association with Epstein is very consistent with his character, or lack thereof. Far more consistent than not. For as much as everyone knows that Clinton is a creep, they should know the same about Trump. It's solely the fact that-that obvious truth isn't what makes people happy, that causes total snow blindness (snow being cum in this circumstance). It's still shocking to see this many adults, in the tens of millions, performing playground levels of manipulation dishonesty while simultaneously thinking that they're pulling it off. 

Reputation seems to be Trump’s concern and that’s not protected by the “innocent until proven guilty” standard anyway. 

I think most people are smart enough to differentiate between someone who ended up with Epstein once and found him objectionable vs people who were hanging out with him regularly (eg Dennett vs Krauss).  

1
byke
Posts
3093
Joined
8/12/2015
Location
Auburn, CA, USA
12/23/2025 10:40am Edited Date/Time 12/23/2025 10:41am
MPJC wrote:
The innocent can't always prove their innocence. I recall, for example, seeing that Epstein would sometimes host gatherings of academics. Some of them hung out with...

The innocent can't always prove their innocence. I recall, for example, seeing that Epstein would sometimes host gatherings of academics. Some of them hung out with him regularly (apparently Noam Chomsky was one such person, also Lawrence Krauss, who continued to defend Epstein after his 2008 conviction and was himself accused of sexual harassment during his time as a professor). But I also saw an interview with Dan Dennett, who had attended one of these functions, where he was asked about Epstein. He seemed puzzled by the whole thing and seemed to think Epstein was an idiot. Dennett has since passed away, but suppose he hadn't: Would Dan Dennett, just by the mere fact that he attended one of these events, have to prove that he didn't sexually assault any girls? If so, how would he do that? Dennett claimed that he'd never heard of Epstein so if that's true, then he didn't know who he was hanging out with. Fuck Chomsky and Krauss. But I have no reason to impugn Dennett. Would you treat someone like Dennett just like Chomsky and Krauss? 

byke wrote:
Totality of events. I'd completely agree if it were a few pics with the guys, we should allow a lot of space for innocence, but his...

Totality of events. I'd completely agree if it were a few pics with the guys, we should allow a lot of space for innocence, but his history of being a perv creep goes back to the 70's..? At least the 80's. Trump has a long list of slimeball moments and the pics and association with Epstein is very consistent with his character, or lack thereof. Far more consistent than not. For as much as everyone knows that Clinton is a creep, they should know the same about Trump. It's solely the fact that-that obvious truth isn't what makes people happy, that causes total snow blindness (snow being cum in this circumstance). It's still shocking to see this many adults, in the tens of millions, performing playground levels of manipulation dishonesty while simultaneously thinking that they're pulling it off. 

MPJC wrote:
Reputation seems to be Trump’s concern and that’s not protected by the “innocent until proven guilty” standard anyway. I think most people are smart enough to differentiate...

Reputation seems to be Trump’s concern and that’s not protected by the “innocent until proven guilty” standard anyway. 

I think most people are smart enough to differentiate between someone who ended up with Epstein once and found him objectionable vs people who were hanging out with him regularly (eg Dennett vs Krauss).  

I submit to you this thread as evidence that people are smart enough, but not honest enough. 

Which is worse, imo. I'll take naive over malicious ten times out of ten.  

1
plowboy
Posts
14472
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Location
Norwich, KS, USA
12/23/2025 1:26pm

Burn them all.  Dem or Rep ain't got nothing to do with it.

If you can't admit that political affiliation has nothing to with whether people are sick twisted pieces of shit...then you are lacking in skills that define decency.  

12
eins4eins
Posts
227
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Location
DE
12/23/2025 10:21pm
El_Rayo wrote:
Remember that gymnastics  Doctor that worked for Team USA, the one who SA’d 150+ girls? And was caught with Child P?New documents reveal, that Epstein personally...

Remember that gymnastics  Doctor that worked for Team USA, the one who SA’d 150+ girls? And was caught with Child P?


New documents reveal, that Epstein personally wrote him a letter while he was in prison. He assured him:

 “We share one thing … our love and caring for young ladies and the hope they’d reach their full potential. Our President also shares our love of young, nubile girls”


Freaking disgusting. 
 

https://www.cnn.com/2025/12/23/politics/larry-nassar-epstein-files-letter
 

Teamgreen, R66, Toolmaker. Posting everywhere but silent on the topic of this thread since all this disgusting shit keeps coming out. Guess thats true loyalty to your leader. 

6
1
agn5008
Posts
2024
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Location
PA, PA, USA
Fantasy
12/23/2025 11:40pm
El_Rayo wrote:
Remember that gymnastics  Doctor that worked for Team USA, the one who SA’d 150+ girls? And was caught with Child P?New documents reveal, that Epstein personally...

Remember that gymnastics  Doctor that worked for Team USA, the one who SA’d 150+ girls? And was caught with Child P?


New documents reveal, that Epstein personally wrote him a letter while he was in prison. He assured him:

 “We share one thing … our love and caring for young ladies and the hope they’d reach their full potential. Our President also shares our love of young, nubile girls”


Freaking disgusting. 
 

https://www.cnn.com/2025/12/23/politics/larry-nassar-epstein-files-letter
 

El_Rayo
Posts
523
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Valparaiso, IN, USA
Fantasy
12/24/2025 5:44am
El_Rayo wrote:
Remember that gymnastics  Doctor that worked for Team USA, the one who SA’d 150+ girls? And was caught with Child P?New documents reveal, that Epstein personally...

Remember that gymnastics  Doctor that worked for Team USA, the one who SA’d 150+ girls? And was caught with Child P?


New documents reveal, that Epstein personally wrote him a letter while he was in prison. He assured him:

 “We share one thing … our love and caring for young ladies and the hope they’d reach their full potential. Our President also shares our love of young, nubile girls”


Freaking disgusting. 
 

https://www.cnn.com/2025/12/23/politics/larry-nassar-epstein-files-letter
 

agn5008 wrote:

Of course it is, why wouldn’t it be?

But isn’t this administration known for calling anything “fake” when it doesn’t fit their narrative?

2
4
TeamGreen
Posts
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Thru-out, CA, USA
12/24/2025 6:29am
El_Rayo wrote:
Remember that gymnastics  Doctor that worked for Team USA, the one who SA’d 150+ girls? And was caught with Child P?New documents reveal, that Epstein personally...

Remember that gymnastics  Doctor that worked for Team USA, the one who SA’d 150+ girls? And was caught with Child P?


New documents reveal, that Epstein personally wrote him a letter while he was in prison. He assured him:

 “We share one thing … our love and caring for young ladies and the hope they’d reach their full potential. Our President also shares our love of young, nubile girls”


Freaking disgusting. 
 

https://www.cnn.com/2025/12/23/politics/larry-nassar-epstein-files-letter
 

agn5008 wrote:
El_Rayo wrote:

Of course it is, why wouldn’t it be?

But isn’t this administration known for calling anything “fake” when it doesn’t fit their narrative?

Who’s established that it’s fake and when did that happen? Aka, how long ago and by who? 

From the onset, going all the way back to when this shit-bag got a sweet deal in FL…the government has protected this ass hole.

I’m not gonna get all worked up about a ration of shit that’s been formed by political hacks and their media monkeys.

Besides, everyone is awfully damn selective in WHAT they WANT to believe. Witness the congresswoman actually sharing texts with this shit-bag during a fucking congressional hearing…Unfuckingbelievable.

Yet, nothing but “So, what?” from far too many people that don’t want to acknowledge it.

Again…

Unfuckingbelievable 

3
4
soggy
Posts
8840
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USA
12/24/2025 6:31am
El_Rayo wrote:
Remember that gymnastics  Doctor that worked for Team USA, the one who SA’d 150+ girls? And was caught with Child P?New documents reveal, that Epstein personally...

Remember that gymnastics  Doctor that worked for Team USA, the one who SA’d 150+ girls? And was caught with Child P?


New documents reveal, that Epstein personally wrote him a letter while he was in prison. He assured him:

 “We share one thing … our love and caring for young ladies and the hope they’d reach their full potential. Our President also shares our love of young, nubile girls”


Freaking disgusting. 
 

https://www.cnn.com/2025/12/23/politics/larry-nassar-epstein-files-letter
 

agn5008 wrote:
El_Rayo wrote:

Of course it is, why wouldn’t it be?

But isn’t this administration known for calling anything “fake” when it doesn’t fit their narrative?

Nah man,


The only ‘narrative’ is from the left. The right has no ‘narrative’ and doesn’t have to cover there tracks at every turn. 😂😂
 

4
cheesehead420
Posts
662
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Location
Manchester, CT, USA
12/24/2025 6:40am
agn5008 wrote:
El_Rayo wrote:

Of course it is, why wouldn’t it be?

But isn’t this administration known for calling anything “fake” when it doesn’t fit their narrative?

TeamGreen wrote:
Who’s established that it’s fake and when did that happen? Aka, how long ago and by who? From the onset, going all the way back to when...

Who’s established that it’s fake and when did that happen? Aka, how long ago and by who? 

From the onset, going all the way back to when this shit-bag got a sweet deal in FL…the government has protected this ass hole.

I’m not gonna get all worked up about a ration of shit that’s been formed by political hacks and their media monkeys.

Besides, everyone is awfully damn selective in WHAT they WANT to believe. Witness the congresswoman actually sharing texts with this shit-bag during a fucking congressional hearing…Unfuckingbelievable.

Yet, nothing but “So, what?” from far too many people that don’t want to acknowledge it.

Again…

Unfuckingbelievable 

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but you are better off keeping those whataboutisms in your back pocket for another thread Mr. green. Throwing them out here only reinforces the idea that you’re using them in order to deflect and defend the actions of some seriously stupid and depraved individuals. 

TeamGreen
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Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
12/24/2025 6:53am
El_Rayo wrote:

Of course it is, why wouldn’t it be?

But isn’t this administration known for calling anything “fake” when it doesn’t fit their narrative?

TeamGreen wrote:
Who’s established that it’s fake and when did that happen? Aka, how long ago and by who? From the onset, going all the way back to when...

Who’s established that it’s fake and when did that happen? Aka, how long ago and by who? 

From the onset, going all the way back to when this shit-bag got a sweet deal in FL…the government has protected this ass hole.

I’m not gonna get all worked up about a ration of shit that’s been formed by political hacks and their media monkeys.

Besides, everyone is awfully damn selective in WHAT they WANT to believe. Witness the congresswoman actually sharing texts with this shit-bag during a fucking congressional hearing…Unfuckingbelievable.

Yet, nothing but “So, what?” from far too many people that don’t want to acknowledge it.

Again…

Unfuckingbelievable 

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but you are better off keeping those whataboutisms in your back pocket for another thread Mr. green. Throwing them out here...

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but you are better off keeping those whataboutisms in your back pocket for another thread Mr. green. Throwing them out here only reinforces the idea that you’re using them in order to deflect and defend the actions of some seriously stupid and depraved individuals. 

No worries. I’m not too worried about all the posturing going on in here. In the big picture, Epstein is gone.

This thread is a prime example of people getting lost in the ether. Other than Lemmy/MPJC, I see virtually no reasoning and just a bunch of posturing.

To want Justice certainly has merit.

But, what’s going on in here is merely angry internet folk going off the rails…and all too often based on their own perceptions instead of the record. 

Nothing more.

Hence, no worries.

There are other places where we can agree on things. This one has, as I said, gone off the rails.

4
3
cheesehead420
Posts
662
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Location
Manchester, CT, USA
12/24/2025 7:21am
TeamGreen wrote:
Who’s established that it’s fake and when did that happen? Aka, how long ago and by who? From the onset, going all the way back to when...

Who’s established that it’s fake and when did that happen? Aka, how long ago and by who? 

From the onset, going all the way back to when this shit-bag got a sweet deal in FL…the government has protected this ass hole.

I’m not gonna get all worked up about a ration of shit that’s been formed by political hacks and their media monkeys.

Besides, everyone is awfully damn selective in WHAT they WANT to believe. Witness the congresswoman actually sharing texts with this shit-bag during a fucking congressional hearing…Unfuckingbelievable.

Yet, nothing but “So, what?” from far too many people that don’t want to acknowledge it.

Again…

Unfuckingbelievable 

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but you are better off keeping those whataboutisms in your back pocket for another thread Mr. green. Throwing them out here...

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but you are better off keeping those whataboutisms in your back pocket for another thread Mr. green. Throwing them out here only reinforces the idea that you’re using them in order to deflect and defend the actions of some seriously stupid and depraved individuals. 

TeamGreen wrote:
No worries. I’m not too worried about all the posturing going on in here. In the big picture, Epstein is gone.This thread is a prime example...

No worries. I’m not too worried about all the posturing going on in here. In the big picture, Epstein is gone.

This thread is a prime example of people getting lost in the ether. Other than Lemmy/MPJC, I see virtually no reasoning and just a bunch of posturing.

To want Justice certainly has merit.

But, what’s going on in here is merely angry internet folk going off the rails…and all too often based on their own perceptions instead of the record. 

Nothing more.

Hence, no worries.

There are other places where we can agree on things. This one has, as I said, gone off the rails.

To say everyone is posturing is to imply that everyone is being disingenuous. I think everyone is just sick and tired of the “rules for thee, but not for me” culture that the institutions of the state provide. 
I think the anger here is authentic and valid, but ultimately misguided. We’re better off demanding accountability from the mechanisms which allow such systemic perversions to go unchecked, rather than concentrate solely on a few scapegoats which will inevitably be offered to the mob in hopes that their public humiliation and deaths will be enough to placate the anger of the masses. 

4
R66
Posts
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Atlanta, GA, USA
12/24/2025 7:29am
eins4eins wrote:
Teamgreen, R66, Toolmaker. Posting everywhere but silent on the topic of this thread since all this disgusting shit keeps coming out. Guess thats true loyalty to...

Teamgreen, R66, Toolmaker. Posting everywhere but silent on the topic of this thread since all this disgusting shit keeps coming out. Guess thats true loyalty to your leader. 

I may have an opinion, but very little facts, so I’ll keep my opinion to myself. 

5
Gworm
Posts
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Monett, MO, USA
12/24/2025 8:02am
eins4eins wrote:
Teamgreen, R66, Toolmaker. Posting everywhere but silent on the topic of this thread since all this disgusting shit keeps coming out. Guess thats true loyalty to...

Teamgreen, R66, Toolmaker. Posting everywhere but silent on the topic of this thread since all this disgusting shit keeps coming out. Guess thats true loyalty to your leader. 

R66 wrote:

I may have an opinion, but very little facts, so I’ll keep my opinion to myself. 

In this thread, facts don’t matter. Just accusing someone of something that you could never know happened unless you were an eye witness is all it takes. 

1
6
El_Rayo
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12/24/2025 8:13am
agn5008 wrote:
El_Rayo wrote:

Of course it is, why wouldn’t it be?

But isn’t this administration known for calling anything “fake” when it doesn’t fit their narrative?

TeamGreen wrote:
Who’s established that it’s fake and when did that happen? Aka, how long ago and by who? From the onset, going all the way back to when...

Who’s established that it’s fake and when did that happen? Aka, how long ago and by who? 

From the onset, going all the way back to when this shit-bag got a sweet deal in FL…the government has protected this ass hole.

I’m not gonna get all worked up about a ration of shit that’s been formed by political hacks and their media monkeys.

Besides, everyone is awfully damn selective in WHAT they WANT to believe. Witness the congresswoman actually sharing texts with this shit-bag during a fucking congressional hearing…Unfuckingbelievable.

Yet, nothing but “So, what?” from far too many people that don’t want to acknowledge it.

Again…

Unfuckingbelievable 

The DOJ released the files then after some came to light in media they called some of it fake. 

But this same DOJ was caught inserting in to the files a fake AI video of Epstein hanging in his cell. Later that day when called out by the media for being AI they took it down immediately…


This same DOJ was also caught editing multiple files and blocking out names the same day, after specific documents came out highlighting a previous and a current president. 

in one of the documents it included new pictures of Trump with girls and Epstein, hard to see at first glance but still there. Once brought out by media, the DOJ immediately removes it from the files. 

Do we see a pattern here?

also “I’m not going to get worked up by a ration of crap” Is an interesting thing to say.


And as far as being selective, I made a whole forum post about the hypocritical congressional women, about a month ago. Calling her out and the evil she partook in. I don’t think I’m very selective. Or the people getting angry about this whole situation either. In fact most people want everyone held accountable. It’s maddening how far the government and DOJ is going to conceal any wrongdoing, or identities of politician, celebrities and billionaires participating in a child sex trafficking ring over the course of almost 20 years. 

No, not everyone who associated with him is guilty. 

But to not question them is illogical. 
 

11
El_Rayo
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12/24/2025 8:28am
eins4eins wrote:
Teamgreen, R66, Toolmaker. Posting everywhere but silent on the topic of this thread since all this disgusting shit keeps coming out. Guess thats true loyalty to...

Teamgreen, R66, Toolmaker. Posting everywhere but silent on the topic of this thread since all this disgusting shit keeps coming out. Guess thats true loyalty to your leader. 

R66 wrote:

I may have an opinion, but very little facts, so I’ll keep my opinion to myself. 

Gworm wrote:
In this thread, facts don’t matter. Just accusing someone of something that you could never know happened unless you were an eye witness is all it...

In this thread, facts don’t matter. Just accusing someone of something that you could never know happened unless you were an eye witness is all it takes. 

This is the way I see it. 

Imagine an average guy named Joe.

Joe buys a second house, far away from where he lives. He doesn’t rent it out. He doesn’t live there. There’s no normal reason for it to exist.


Later, it comes outthrough court records and testimony that Joe used that house specifically to traffic and abuse women and children. Multiple victims say it. Investigators document it. Joe himself is charged.

Now here’s the key part: Joe didn’t use that house alone.

A steady stream of his friends visited. 
But see, Joe Was known before his arrest to have disturbing allegations around him. But his friends, They flew in.They stayed overnight. Some came back again and again. They socialized there. They partied there. They knew Joe owned the house. They knew it wasn’t normal.

Some of those friends now say:

“I didn’t see anything.”

“I didn’t ask questions.”

“I was just there for a visit.”


And these same friends are doing everything in their power to avoid the subject, conceal their names in documents.



It’s VERY reasonable to question the judgment, awareness, and possible involvement of people who repeatedly visited a place built for abuse. 

That’s just basic human reasoning.

7
El_Rayo
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12/24/2025 8:28am
eins4eins wrote:
Teamgreen, R66, Toolmaker. Posting everywhere but silent on the topic of this thread since all this disgusting shit keeps coming out. Guess thats true loyalty to...

Teamgreen, R66, Toolmaker. Posting everywhere but silent on the topic of this thread since all this disgusting shit keeps coming out. Guess thats true loyalty to your leader. 

R66 wrote:

I may have an opinion, but very little facts, so I’ll keep my opinion to myself. 

Gworm wrote:
In this thread, facts don’t matter. Just accusing someone of something that you could never know happened unless you were an eye witness is all it...

In this thread, facts don’t matter. Just accusing someone of something that you could never know happened unless you were an eye witness is all it takes. 

Who here is accusing anyone of anything? 

R66
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1399
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Atlanta, GA, USA
12/24/2025 9:35am

Just because something is in the file does not mean it is true. The file is the file. It contains the information gathered. Some of this information is true and some of it is not true. 

9
soggy
Posts
8840
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12/24/2025 9:48am
R66 wrote:
Just because something is in the file does not mean it is true. The file is the file. It contains the information gathered. Some of this...

Just because something is in the file does not mean it is true. The file is the file. It contains the information gathered. Some of this information is true and some of it is not true. 

Translation. If it makes Trump look bad it’s not true. 

15
1
El_Rayo
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12/24/2025 10:22am Edited Date/Time 12/24/2025 10:23am
eins4eins wrote:
Teamgreen, R66, Toolmaker. Posting everywhere but silent on the topic of this thread since all this disgusting shit keeps coming out. Guess thats true loyalty to...

Teamgreen, R66, Toolmaker. Posting everywhere but silent on the topic of this thread since all this disgusting shit keeps coming out. Guess thats true loyalty to your leader. 

R66 wrote:

I may have an opinion, but very little facts, so I’ll keep my opinion to myself. 

You post your Opinion on everything else. Let’s hear about it here too?

7
1
agn5008
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PA, PA, USA
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12/24/2025 4:57pm
El_Rayo wrote:
Remember that gymnastics  Doctor that worked for Team USA, the one who SA’d 150+ girls? And was caught with Child P?New documents reveal, that Epstein personally...

Remember that gymnastics  Doctor that worked for Team USA, the one who SA’d 150+ girls? And was caught with Child P?


New documents reveal, that Epstein personally wrote him a letter while he was in prison. He assured him:

 “We share one thing … our love and caring for young ladies and the hope they’d reach their full potential. Our President also shares our love of young, nubile girls”


Freaking disgusting. 
 

https://www.cnn.com/2025/12/23/politics/larry-nassar-epstein-files-letter
 

agn5008 wrote:
El_Rayo wrote:

Of course it is, why wouldn’t it be?

But isn’t this administration known for calling anything “fake” when it doesn’t fit their narrative?

I don’t know if it’s fake or real. I just posted an article from the same source (cnn) saying it was found that the letter wasn’t legit. Nothing more, nothing less. 

2
SKlein
Posts
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MN, MN, USA
12/24/2025 5:42pm
soggy wrote:

Translation. If it makes Trump look bad it’s not true. 

7
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