Upgrade to enjoy this feature!
Vital MX fantasy is free to play, but Premium users receive great benefits. Premium benefits include:
- View and download rider stats
- Pick trends
- Create a private league
- And more!
Only $10 for all 2026 SX, MX, and SMX series.
A newly revised modern up to date two stroke isn't going to come in a whole lot cheaper than a current 4 stroke, probably 5-8 hundred less than a comparable sized 4. But the number of people that have given up on the 4 stroke, most notably the 250F's is growing. The 250F is damn near a disposable bike because when it gets old and blows, no one with half a brain is going to rebuild one. It's going to cost as much to rebuild the engine as what the bike will be worth when you are done. Even if it doesn't blow, hardly anyone who knows anything about them would buy a used 250F for anything but chump change.
Throw the 2s/4s arguement out the window for a moment and consider a little bit of a lower end entry level motocross bike to try and bring some people back to the sport. It could be a 2 stroke or a 4 stroke, and wouldn't necessarily have the rev limiter set at 13,500 rpm.
Go back to "the good old days" and Yamaha made the MX and YZ lines. Sold plenty of each. Maybe it's time to try that again. Motocross might just find it way back to a bunch of families who've given up on it or just avoided it altogether due to how expensive it's gotten.
I'd like to read this information, along with current information on many four strokes are selling today due to the recession. Not that the information is false, I believe it is true. I would just like to read about it.
In twenty years when people are racing electric bikes, this stuff will all be water under the bridge. Then four-stroke and two-stroke enthusiast will unite in the march to "bring back the gas!" People can ride whatever they want, but the only thing that saddens me about the four strokes is the AMA allowed a greater displacement advantage so the market would switch over. This has allowed racers to race "death speeds" as Robbie Reynard has called it, which as a result, has skyrocketed the injury rate in the sport.
David Baily once said in an email, back in his day a guy would get hurt, miss a few races, then be back in action. Now death has become a serious concern in racing, along with an extremely high rate of spinal injuries. Then we get seasons like last year where half the top contenders were missing in action due to serious injuries.
People may feel like they are making an independent choice in what type of bike they choose to ride, but environmental influences of the sport make most people's decisions for them (millions spent in marketing, what people see racing on television, what's faster due to laws implemented by the AMA, etc.). If the big four wanted people to still ride 2-strokes, they would still be out there racing at the top professional level. However, they saw an opportunity to make more profits under the guise of "saving the environment" (which coincidentally, it has, because more tracks are getting shut down due to noise pollution). The people that made the decisions about what bikes most people ended up riding are C-level executives, it's just that most people are ignorant to the economic forces that influence their purchasing decisions without their awareness.
The Shop
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
You totally make shit up. Hopefully you at least knew you were posting bullshit but I suppose it's possible you really are that clueless. The truth is that you can't find new 250 two-strokes anywhere. When they come out every year they are immediately snapped up, even at top dollar prices. Part low supply, part high demand. But either way, it's the exact opposite of what you tried to post.
On the other hand, 250Fs and 450Fs are collecting on the dealer floors, even with heavy discounting.
Don't believe it? Call any 5 dealers across the land and ask what it would take to get either bike.
Businesses either grow or wither away. We need to treat our sport like a business and find ways to make it grow because MX won't get a bailout if it starts to go under. I would love to see a 125 support class for local pros at Supercross races to help generate some entry level interest in racing MX and grow the sport , but that doesn't mean I want to take away anyones 4 stroke : ) Until then I will just be thankful for KTM as I ride my 2011 250 sx !
a TM 144 is $8700
10 ktm 250 sx is $8000
A KTM 450 IS $9700
ktm 250 sxf is $8700
ktm 50 is $3800
thos prices are before fees and taxes.
Zoom forward to 2010 and its all reversed. Seeing a 2 stroke is rare, they aren't out front and to some, they may sound a bit strange.
Maybe 30 years from now, 2 strokes will be back out front again battling with the more nimble, lighter cheaper electric motocross bikes.
or maybe there is the fact that in the last 2 years you are lucky to wake up and still have your house and a job! no, that couldnt be it. oh wait, thats the whole crux of this 2stroke argument! if we were still on 2 strokes, at 5900 vs 4 strokes at 7000, they would be flying off the floors! right?
for the record, i could give a flying eff about 4 strokes. i just hate idiotic rhetoric stated as fact and reality when its prefaced in a fantasy world based on nostalgia.
no no, ignore the fact you couldnt give a 2 stroke away in 04 and 05, and in 04, 05, 06, 07, 08 model years and you had to be fast with your money to get your hands on a new 4 stroke! thats doesnt mean anything! it was a conspiracy to drive the price up! they are spending the same, giving us the same and charging more money on this conspiracy 4 strokes! over priced the market soooo much we cant afford them.... yeah, last 2 years every industry in the country grew while just mx bikes shrank because of 4 strokes. guess all those boats, cars, road bikes, rv's, jet skis, and trucks, that are 2 years old, brand new, on sale for under half price and still not moving is just those consumers wising up to something in those industries that was 5+ years ago.
Pit Row
The 250F one of the worst things to ever happen to the sport. It is, as you put it, a disposable bike. How many 5 year old 250Fs do you see out there anymore?
None! And they haven't just been relegated to gravel pits and such, they are in the junkyard.
How this is a sustainable business model for the sport as a whole is beyond me.
It's especially sad, because this sport really had it figured out not long ago.
Davy Coombs needs to get off the pot and change the rules to heads up, cc to cc.
If he needs Dingmans OK, then we need to go after Dingman.
Nothing special, just fair racing.
The stroke issue will settle itself.
2 Strokes ARE back...
Truth is they never left the real world, they were just played down, marginalized, or left out of the piper's tune for a while... The piper would be the various magazines and their multimedia arms, websites and other industry hype fountains, and of course the KING COMMERCIAL itself, pro racing...
When 143.6 cc's (KTM150SX) produces more power than 249 cc's (KTM250SXF) and, according to tester Chris Green, "The KTM150 really got my attention with it's ability to overtake the 250SX-F down long straights in the higher gears", and everyone who's ever ridden a dirtbike before is thinking, "If that thing's taking the FOOPER out down the straights, it must be GOREING that pig in the turns!!!" - 2 Strokes are back...
When you can choose a bike that weighs 208LBS (KTM250SX) to race with, or one that weighs very nearly 250LBS (Various 450FOOPERS) - 2 Strokes are back...
When Mr. Fooperkudos Teriyaki himself from Nonda Motor Corp. mentions a "2 Stroke Resurgence" that his company isn't going to move to supply because it's a "Green Issue", or something gay like that, - 2 Strokes are back...
When magazines like Spamsworld Mowercross are babbling, spewing desperate sounding contradictory dribble as they introduce a bike test, like they did in the first 2 paragraphs of their 2011 KTM150SX Test (Nov. 2010 issue), - 2 Strokes are back...
When Taddy B chooses to ride a 2 Stroke, - 2 Stokes are back...
When Travis Pastrana and Nate Adams rip it up on 250 strokers and do their bikes proud in front of one of the largest TV audiences ever to watch people ride dirtbikes, and the 450's they're competing against look like someone dressed MX bikes up in Fat Suits and turned their idle screws up to 4000 RPM's, - 2 Strokes are back...
When a rider whom very few people even noted a few weeks ago is tied for 1st place at Bercy SX after night 2, and takes 3rd overall in the event against the fully supported AMA American riders who's bikes are factory, nearly twice the size, and tarted up with more trinkets than a Mardi Gras drag queen, - 2 Stokes are back...
Whew! This is really easy but I'm tired anyway.
Thanks,
Jim
Really??????
If ou look at the history of our sport, it has defied every recession and has grown during those times when the economy has actually stalled.
The sport took off in the mid/late 70's, you know, when the oil embargo was going on and interest rates were 20%.
The intorduction of the Honda elsnores had a lot to do with that. It was an affordable competitive machine for the masses.
Then the sport saw remarkable growth again in the early 90's, during another recession.
The difference is that our sport is no longer affordable.
A big reason is the 4 strokes. Sure there are other factors like fuel prices, lack of convenient riding areas, and a lot of people living way beyond their means, both in racing and other purchases. Fourstrokes are threatening to be the death blow to motocross as we know it.
I recently had a conversation with a guy who's family has been running events in California for over 30 years.
He recalled how back in the 70's kids would ride their freaking bikes to the track with their gear bags on the handlebars.
Wouldn't it be great to get back to something like that?
How many of us on here started riding/racing when we were teenagers and had to pay at least part of our way?
That is impossible now.
Sure the bikes are expensive.
The problem is that used 4 strokes are no longer really an option for entry level racers, and if you manage to scrap the money together to get a new one you lose over half the value in the resale market when you roll it out the door.
manufacturers need to realize their is a market for 2 strokes with existing technology.
Promoters and sanctioning organizations need to get creative in forming classes to get entry level riders back into the sport on affordable, easy to maintain machines.
A good example of this would be the Dunlop Hot Summer nights serioes run by Victory Sports in Tennessee. They offer a 150 air cooled class for TTR, KLX, and CRF (air cooled) bikes. A great class for young riders to get into racing.
The same could be done for 125cc two strokes.
I personally feel that the AMA should stand firm and not allow the 150f machines in the 85cc classes. If that happens then the 85 two strokes will become as rare as the 125 two strokes and riders will end up moving from the 65cc machines to a 150. That would be as bad as what we have now with 12 & 13 years olds moving to a 250F( or worse, a 250T).
Second, as far as I know, you can still race a 2 stroke at your local events so the cost of racing argument is null and void. I just bought a 06 RM 250 in great shape for $2500 with a ton of extra parts. I can race it all year and maybe have to change a top end and/or sprocket/chain and tires....NO one is forcing anyone to buy a 4 stroke and no one is certainly not telling anyone that they can not race their 2 stroke at a local event. I have also seen 00-06 125's for under $2k so there is the opportunity to race and still not have it cost you a fortune. The cost of the classes are the same regardless of what bike you're on....
If you need to have the latest and greatest then sure it can get pricey, but the cost of a 2011 250cc is no bargain either....People get caught up on all the hype and think they have to have a '11 or a 450 or 350...but the fact remains that you need to figure out why your are racing and what you want out of it. If you think you're the next RC, then it will be an expensive sport. If you want to just go out, have fun and enjoy the essence of motocross, then you do not have to break the budget. In fact, in can be a very reasonable hobby considering.....
Post a reply to: How Long Will It Take Till Two Strokes Come Back?