Prepare for new bike manufacturers

9194
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9194 10/27/2010 1:39pm
10/27/2010 1:39pm Edited Date/Time 10/27/2010 1:42pm
wardy wrote:
ABSOLFRIGGINLUTELY!!!!!! this thread has legs. yes china and the rest already make the bikes. hell they already make a HUGE AMOUNT of the Japanese bikes today~...
ABSOLFRIGGINLUTELY!!!!!!

this thread has legs.

yes china and the rest already make the bikes. hell they already make a HUGE AMOUNT of the Japanese bikes today~!!!!!
"There's plenty of China in what you are already buying, riding & wearing." amen.


AMA stop them? why? there are new homolgation rules coming soon which allows more smaller types of manufactureres to compete by building bikes. I have said this now for 2-3 years, and have been laughed at in here about it, but it's simple economics. We all like to ride, but simply can't afford it. Forget about the guy with 3 kids and trying to get into the sport he loved as a kid.


I get a kick out of that "chinese stuff is junk (SHEEP) comments".......

If we don't get less exspensive durable off road bikes to ride and even maybe race we will be gone. it's that simple.

I have many of those supposed "junk" little 200 four strokes running around our riding park............electric start, turn signals, and well the one guy i talked with is his 3rd season on the bike. no problems. and he rides alot with his kids. cost of this bike.......
when bought in 2008......... 686.00.


not to turn this into stroke thread but there is a reason why at our riding park we have a huge amount of older smokers.....................cost!!!!!!

There isn't a person reading this that will argue with the fact they buy products based on cost first......it's why Walmart is so friggin huge.

China, and the rest will come into this game and no lead laws, or other bullshit will stop it, may slow it down but it's coming.

Lets hope we have places to ride when it gets here.........................................

Yep. Take a look at a Suzuki RM 85 frame right by the vin #.
Wandell
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Wandell 10/27/2010 3:17pm
10/27/2010 3:17pm
Yep, my son's KLX110 is stamped "Made In Thailand". I hear the Honda CRF230 is made in Brazil.
nospeed
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nospeed 10/27/2010 6:41pm
10/27/2010 6:41pm
When a Chinese manufacture builds products for a US or Japanese corporation they build the product to a higher quality standard then if they built it for themselves. To keep the Chinese manufactures in check, I know that it is common practice for a US manufacture to place their own quality control at a Chinese factory or they hire a third party to act as quality control for them.

The hurdle that the Chinese manufactures need to clear is their inability to produce a quality product on their own. One would think that this would be an easy thing to do, but for some reason they aren't there yet. I am sure it’s coming but I haven’t seen it yet, at least not on the little dirt bikes.

I do agree that the cost of MX is getting way to expensive. As it stands now, I don't see how the kids that are leaving their parents nest are going to be able to afford to race. If Chinese bikes can solve this problem, bring them on. I prefer US made products but if it can't be done, I guess that it doen't matter where it's built.
project racer 10/27/2010 7:17pm
10/27/2010 7:17pm Edited Date/Time 10/27/2010 7:17pm
I believe the Yamaha PW50 is manufactured in China. They have proven to be pretty reliable machines with good build quality.

It happened to Triumph , BSA, Norton, Bultaco ,Ossa, and many others. Don't ever think the Japanese brands are too big to fail.

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SwapperMX
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SwapperMX 10/28/2010 5:52am
10/28/2010 5:52am
You guys shouldn't bury your heads in the sand. At the world motorcycle expo in Cologne a few weeks back there was a chinese 450 there that was a direct copy of an 09 CRF450, and the build quality was amazing. No strange looking mufflers, raked out forks, no odd sized wheels, from a distance you would have sworn it was a CRF. Up close, the build quality and detail was obvious. Didnt get to hear it run, or speak to anyone that had ridden it, but it was definitely a quality build. These bikes are a lot closer than you think.

I cant get my head around riding a Chinese bike at the moment either, but lets just wait and see what happens. I also know from the inside the level of trouble that the Yamaha Motor Corp was in, and it isn't/wasn't pretty. The other manufacturers would also have their share of problems. Interesting times ahead.
IntenseRider
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IntenseRider 10/28/2010 6:13am
10/28/2010 6:13am
phlewy wrote:
The big 4 plus one are following the time-tested path of the dinosaurs. This recession is not like others where simple gimmicks like low interest rates...
The big 4 plus one are following the time-tested path of the dinosaurs.

This recession is not like others where simple gimmicks like low interest rates and rebates will save the brand. During the past 24 months, dealers and whole dealer networks have disappeared. The carnage to distribution is breathtaking. The destruction of the brand goes unabated.

Yet, the big 5 continue to push eight thousand dollar 250's and 18,000$ crusers. Do the big 5 care about the future?

The prop up of high prices is not working. What's needed is 4,000$ 250's and $4,800 450's. Watch for Korean and Chinese manufacturers to smell blood in the water. Without the bloated infrastruce of Japanese manfacturers, they are poised to make significant inroads.

Some interesting China facts:

1. There are more than 130 motorcycle manufacturers in China
2. Chongqing-based manufacturers produced 10 million units
3. Twenty-three Chinese OEMs each produce more than 100,000 units annually
4. Twelve manufacturers produce more than 500,000 units a year
5. At least five manufacturers produce more than 1 million units a year (four are based in Chongqing)
6. China produced 27.5 million bikes in 2008, nearly half the world's production
7. China has passed Japan as the number-one motorcycle producer
8. More than 15 million motorcycles are sold annually in China
9. Less than 20% of China's production goes to foreign markets
10. Chinese bikes sold in export markets like America are often marketed by independent companies operating under different names
Branding will be a large part of their success/failure as well.

For example, when Cheng Shin tires don't do well in the US market, create a brand called "Maxxis", and suddenly people that wouldn't buy that "crap" tell you it's the greatest thing going.
JustMX
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JustMX 10/28/2010 6:35am
10/28/2010 6:35am
phlewy wrote:
The big 4 plus one are following the time-tested path of the dinosaurs. This recession is not like others where simple gimmicks like low interest rates...
The big 4 plus one are following the time-tested path of the dinosaurs.

This recession is not like others where simple gimmicks like low interest rates and rebates will save the brand. During the past 24 months, dealers and whole dealer networks have disappeared. The carnage to distribution is breathtaking. The destruction of the brand goes unabated.

Yet, the big 5 continue to push eight thousand dollar 250's and 18,000$ crusers. Do the big 5 care about the future?

The prop up of high prices is not working. What's needed is 4,000$ 250's and $4,800 450's. Watch for Korean and Chinese manufacturers to smell blood in the water. Without the bloated infrastruce of Japanese manfacturers, they are poised to make significant inroads.

Some interesting China facts:

1. There are more than 130 motorcycle manufacturers in China
2. Chongqing-based manufacturers produced 10 million units
3. Twenty-three Chinese OEMs each produce more than 100,000 units annually
4. Twelve manufacturers produce more than 500,000 units a year
5. At least five manufacturers produce more than 1 million units a year (four are based in Chongqing)
6. China produced 27.5 million bikes in 2008, nearly half the world's production
7. China has passed Japan as the number-one motorcycle producer
8. More than 15 million motorcycles are sold annually in China
9. Less than 20% of China's production goes to foreign markets
10. Chinese bikes sold in export markets like America are often marketed by independent companies operating under different names
Is #9 referring to motorcycle production or total production of all goods?

If it is motorcycle production then it would contradict #6 + #8.

If the manufacturers in China are paying attention they will start producing two stroke off road machines instead of fourstrokes.

High revving fourstroke engines and poor quality control is a recipe for failure.

Copy the yz 250, make reliable commuter bikes, build a dealer network, and watch the brand grow.

They can move right into all the jap dealers that are closing and have the perfect display and shop areas already in place.
gt80rider
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gt80rider 10/28/2010 7:18am
10/28/2010 7:18am
it's not just motorcycles..... it's gonna be just about every product segment......

and even with their ridiculous population, chinas biggest problem right now is manpower.....

but....... they are raping their own country..... and they have even more problems than we have..... china is a mighty producing power, but they aren't without their issues...
gt80rider
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gt80rider 10/28/2010 7:28am
10/28/2010 7:28am
nospeed wrote:
When a Chinese manufacture builds products for a US or Japanese corporation they build the product to a higher quality standard then if they built it...
When a Chinese manufacture builds products for a US or Japanese corporation they build the product to a higher quality standard then if they built it for themselves. To keep the Chinese manufactures in check, I know that it is common practice for a US manufacture to place their own quality control at a Chinese factory or they hire a third party to act as quality control for them.

The hurdle that the Chinese manufactures need to clear is their inability to produce a quality product on their own. One would think that this would be an easy thing to do, but for some reason they aren't there yet. I am sure it’s coming but I haven’t seen it yet, at least not on the little dirt bikes.

I do agree that the cost of MX is getting way to expensive. As it stands now, I don't see how the kids that are leaving their parents nest are going to be able to afford to race. If Chinese bikes can solve this problem, bring them on. I prefer US made products but if it can't be done, I guess that it doen't matter where it's built.
and that's one of their problems...... although it may not appear it, china is still a communist country..... at the end of the day, their workers just don't GAS about quality, and they never will under communist reign......

i work every day with the chinese....... their samples tend to be sterling examples of what they can do.... then they fill your "real" order with crap..... all the while being able to hide behind their almighty government if you have an issue with them....

for my work, i've been to Beijing a half dozen times in recent years.... their factories are down right horrific... they don't care if 80% of their workers get cancer 10 years down the road, as long as they can fill todays order and take your american dollar from you....
xnationalwrench 10/28/2010 7:29am
10/28/2010 7:29am
I have worked with go-karts with 150cc scooter type engines and worked for the U.S. Distributor for SYM scooters. The 1st batches of the 150 engines (copy of a Honda) were pretty good quality wise but it seems that the more that came over the worse the quality was. While the SYM engines were as good a quality as the Japanese enigines but were more old school (tappet adjusters instead of shim and bucket adjuster). The biggest problem for both was they had no idea about parts or being able to offer parts, It seems their main concern was to make units and worry about anything else later on but later on hardly happened. To be honest I looked at these companies almost like Honda in the early 60's (U,S.) they got their foot in the door but they have to adapt to the U,S. market and not let "this is the way we do it and we aren't changing" attiude.
wired4speed 10/28/2010 7:37am
10/28/2010 7:37am
Holigan wrote:
Watch for India and what KTM does there. Huge, fast growing economy with a ton of engineers.
There's a lot to be said for India. Everyone is watching China and rightfully so but the Chinese have many issues with quality control and engineering on top of their social issues. India will be more of an economic powerhouse in the near future and will give the United States a run for their money and compete for global jobs far above the low pay scale manufacturing jobs we already sent them. Chinese businessmen are driven by building things as cheap as they can make it. It's not always a good business model.

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