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hampshire rode the same way on the 250 and look at him now...I think the power of the 450 will calm deegan down and hes going to be much better
If you really pay attention to deegan in slow mo or just watch his form around the track he actually has much better technique than it appears at face value. I think that “sending it” and revving the hell out of the bike are usually associated with riders that tend to ride a bit loose, but hes actually more refined than it seems in my opinion.
Sure his technique is not as refined as jett or chase, but its still very good. Riders like jett, hunter, kenny…etc tend to stay low in the rpm and dont make a whole lot of extra movements and combine this with very good form on the bike. They have a holistic approach on the bike where everything they do is geared towards this greater philosophy of using less energy and keeping the bike as neutral as possible and technique is only one part of that.
Deegan revs the piss out of the bike and sends it, but you can still do that while keeping your elbows up, back straight, chin up, hips back, balls of your feet….etc. Its harder to keep good form riding like that and not upset the chassis, thats why the technique guys choose not to ride that way, but it can be done. None of that stuff makes it so you cant rev your bike out, or launch it off a wall jump. So I see deegan as combining a few of the different pieces of different riders together to become who he is now. I think theres definitely room for different styles out there, but even with deegan hes showing that even the sendy guys still need to have dialed technique these days to run up front, but that doesnt mean there arent ways to still be different.
The crazy thing about moto, is how different all the riders are, size, setup, technique training etc and how different riders can be and still win
If anything it'll come down to race craft and setting up passes etc.
Nobody will ever be better than James was on a SX track between the years 2003 and 2009 I don’t care what you tell me.
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I think the main he’ll need to work on is starts. He’s one of the smallest guys in the class on by far the most powerful bike and he still rarely starts well. He has such a speed advantage now he can still win but that speed advantage will disappear in the 450s
Deegan’s technique and particularly form is almost flawless in my opinion. And the kids got steez too.
For those that are saying he needs more technique, can you provide an example, other than rev limiter and clutch thing? And this is coming from someone that finds it extremely hard to like the kid off the bike.
I'm not sure who downvoted you, but you deserved it.
First, RV, had he scored points in the moto that he got none due to a DNF, would have likely finished 1st or 2nd, so it wouldn't go from 19 points to 25. Add a likely 23 or 25 points to the 19.
Also, RV and BT didn't finish 200 points ahead of third. RV was like 197 and BT 19 less than that. But context matters. Josh Grant scored 15 points in the last four motos due to an injury.
As far as what BT said, well plenty of fast guys lacked technique, RV was one of them. Another is Ricky Carmichael who you might have heard of. But we won't know until Haiden actually moves up.
I don't know, I haven't seen him ride a 450.
I downvoted you. That season between BT & RV was a barnburner, you're so desperately trying to prove a point (BT doesn't know what he's talking about?) that you're discrediting two of the best racers and one of the most entertaining seasons ever. Josh grant was not trading wins with the other two after High Point and slowly dropped off the pace before the last two rounds. As you say, context matters.
for educational purposes... worth a watch..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWk3PtHzR1E
REWIND THE CRASH REAL BOB
I can't tell if you're trolling, or if you're actually this goofy.
First; Had RV not DNF'd moto 1, yes, it's highly likely he would have gotten 1st or 2nd, but BT went 1-3 for the overall, so, no, RV would have won the c-ship by 23 - 25 more points than he did, it would have been between 21 - 25 total (instead of 19).
Second; This might be one of the dumbest things I've seen you post. "RV and BT didn't finish 200 points ahead of third. It was like 197..." and you think that's some kind of own? I need to find the meme of the softheaded drooling NPC for this kind of silliness.
Third; About the only correct thing you wrote is that we won't now until Haiden actually moves up. But, if I'm going to listen to someone about what they see as potential for a rider to succeed on a 450, 100/100 times, I'll listen to BT over a goof like you.
If you watch a practice video of Deegan now, you'll see he doesn't rev the bike as much as he did even a year or two ago. He learns quickly. I have no doubt he'll be successful on 450s, and its not because of technique. It's because he wants it so damn bad and is willing to do the work to be successful.
I don't know about beating Chase and Jett, but he'll definitely be fast and towards the front in his 2nd or 3rd year.
Deegs technique is pretty solid. It looks erratic cause he’s riding the hell out of the bike. His style will calm down on a 450. I don’t aee any issue with his technique moving to a 450.
He's definitely not as bad with the revving as he was earlier in his career, but Saturday must have been some kind of anomaly. He was on the hammer while the bike was still 10 feet in the air, which I haven't noticed him do as much recently. I was texting with my dad while I was watching the replay and mentioned that Deegan must have attended the Justin Barcia School of Pegging the Rev Limiter last week.
I sure hope deegan is reading this thread and taking detailed notes . For being the fastest 250 rider on the planet he sure does alot of things wrong.
When RV and BT left Red Bud, the points was 238 (RV) and 218 (BT). When they left Unadilla, the points were 263/263, tied. Assuming RV didn't have his radiator issue and he finished 2nd (he was running up front in the opening laps), RV would have left Unadilla with 285 to BT's 263. Extend the running order for the rest of the season and RV would have ended up with a 40 point lead.
As per your second point, the 200 point spread...well look at the class. As mentioned Josh Grant missed the last three motos, and JLaw, Dungey, and Metcalfe all missed 5 plus races, scoring zero points.
Yes, RV and BT were dominating the field that year, but huge points spread is due to riders missing races. Them are facts.
Tutalu.
I'm not a loser who downvotes, so I won't downvote you (though you deserve it for making such bad points), but I will point out that you missed the point I was making.
I never said Grant was trading wins with RV and BT. I said that the huge 200 point spread is due in part to Josh scoring 0 points in the last three motos.
The idea that no one had gone as fast on a 250 since then is ludicrous and even Ludacris would agree.
Pit Row
He most likely isn’t old enough to have seen that season. Those two were ripping, great competition to two exceptional riders
It's ludicrous you thought that was funny.
Don't bring up facts and logic with 971. The only thing he's interested in starts with 'D' and is attached to Brian.
So onìe guy calms down after jumping on the 450 and that's the way it's gonna be for every guy from now on?It's funny how everyone jumps on the latest bandwagon. Seriously funny.That being said he will do fine IMHO.
You did say that RV smoked BT to try and discredit BT's opinion on the matter. Josh Grant got injured trying to keep the pace for a whole season, it happens to riders every year. It doesn't make them any less of a rider or put some kind of asterisk against the performance of their competitors. I got your point, it's just not valid in this discussion.
No-one besides you has brought up the idea of no-one going as fast on a 250 since then. Not downvoting on the interwebs is not really that high of a moral ground to be standing on. It doesn't make you any less of a loser either.
He raced the 450 before…
Mini O’s 2022.
Yeah, I've been beating this drum for awhile. His starts are the only glaring weakness I see. He'll put the work in to adapt his style accordingly to a 450. Nobody is going to outwork Haiden Deegan because nobody wants to win more than him. But let's say he has similar speed as Jett. After a mediocre start by the time he gets to the front Jett will be up by 8-10sec. He's going to to need to be .5 to a second a lap faster than Jett to run him down. I dont think that's possible
I also don't see his starts magically getting better on a 450. Like you said, he's on the fastest bike and he's a small dude. His 450 isnt going to have the same power advantage his Star 250 has over his competition. Starts are an odd variable in mx that I think some guys will just never be great at them, no matter how much they practice. You think Eli Tomac hasn't practiced thousands apon thousands of starts?
I remember watching a video where Travis Pastrana was riding with Haiden when he was on an 65 and he said this kid already has better dirt bike skills than me and he was being serious. The trajectory has been nothing but up since so you can say he's going to struggle on the 450 but you're just hoping at that point, don't have any actual good reason to believe it. Unless your reason is just: Jett, which ok, but that doesn't neccesarily mean Haiden isn't still going to be really good it's more of an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object kinda thing which is hopefully what makes it so much fun to watch.
You do realize that most of the guys were on 250's in that race...including Deegan
Not a Deegan fan by any means, some might even call me a “hater” or a “Jett glazer”.
Kids fast as all hell though. There’s no denying that. I consider his race craft to be right up there with.. well you know who. His ability to dissect the track as the moto goes on and take different lines is incredible. Carries much more momentum than anyone else in his class. As long as he can adapt to the power of the 450, which I think he will, he’ll be just fine.
Looking forward to having another elite talent on the 450 gate next summer. That also blows the door wide open for anyone in the 250 class to be the man. Should be a good season next summer.
Anonymously downvoting is for losers. By the way, if you read the thread, you'll see I'm not the one who brought up RV and BT being the fastest ever; that was silly sully.
His exact words were, in ‘07, but both were nearly 200pts ahead of JG in 3rd. No one before or since - not even your boy crush - has ridden a 250 faster than those two did that year, so BT is absolutely someone who should be listened to.
Danger boy will be a super star in the premier class you have all doubted him to this point and all he does is win!! He will adapt and win on whatever he throws his leg over kid has just as much talent as Jett and maybe more!! Just enjoy the ride!! Kid is for real.
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