I have given up on Tomac's starts...

mxnick
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7/6/2025 10:56pm

Reminds me of Mike LaRocco 

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kage173
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7/7/2025 6:42am

Tomac has never been good at starts. When they moved to grates, it got better, but he's never been a good starter. 

7/7/2025 9:48am Edited Date/Time 7/7/2025 9:48am

His starts aren’t helping anything but I don’t think he looks as comfortable as he did on the last generation bike, but that could very well could be because he’s having to push that much harder to try and run the pace.

2
Lineman25
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7/7/2025 9:50am
His starts aren’t helping anything but I don’t think he looks as comfortable as he did on the last generation bike, but that could very well...

His starts aren’t helping anything but I don’t think he looks as comfortable as he did on the last generation bike, but that could very well could be because he’s having to push that much harder to try and run the pace.

New chassis better for sx maybe not translating to a good outdoor chassis? 

The Shop

7/7/2025 9:55am
Lineman25 wrote:

New chassis better for sx maybe not translating to a good outdoor chassis? 

I have no idea but there may be some truth there. Ferrandis was great in 2021 on the older bike but never seemed to gel completely on the newer model for that year he rode it.

-MAVERICK-
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7/7/2025 10:07am
Lineman25 wrote:

New chassis better for sx maybe not translating to a good outdoor chassis? 

I have no idea but there may be some truth there. Ferrandis was great in 2021 on the older bike but never seemed to gel completely...

I have no idea but there may be some truth there. Ferrandis was great in 2021 on the older bike but never seemed to gel completely on the newer model for that year he rode it.

Ferrandis said the new Gen was better for him in SX, but struggled with it outdoors. He got better on it towards the end of the Nationals.

Previous Gen he struggled with it in SX, but went on to win the 450 outdoor title. 

Maybe Eli is experiencing the same issues.  

3
RichieW13
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7/7/2025 10:21am
Titan1 wrote:
I don’t know why Tomac practices anything besides starts during the week…fix those and the results fix themselves….its crazy that he is that far off ebery...

I don’t know why Tomac practices anything besides starts during the week…fix those and the results fix themselves….its crazy that he is that far off ebery start almost every moto…

I wish we had data on gate-drop reaction times for the riders, to see which riders are the fastest to get their front tire over the gate.

How much of a great start is about reaction time between the gate dropping and dropping the clutch?  How much is about the ability to keep traction to the ground for 100 yards?  How much is about being able to slow down to make the holeshot turn in time?

7/7/2025 12:05pm
Titan1 wrote:
I don’t know why Tomac practices anything besides starts during the week…fix those and the results fix themselves….its crazy that he is that far off ebery...

I don’t know why Tomac practices anything besides starts during the week…fix those and the results fix themselves….its crazy that he is that far off ebery start almost every moto…

RichieW13 wrote:
I wish we had data on gate-drop reaction times for the riders, to see which riders are the fastest to get their front tire over the...

I wish we had data on gate-drop reaction times for the riders, to see which riders are the fastest to get their front tire over the gate.

How much of a great start is about reaction time between the gate dropping and dropping the clutch?  How much is about the ability to keep traction to the ground for 100 yards?  How much is about being able to slow down to make the holeshot turn in time?

In Honda's case, the difference is made with traction in the first 50 yards or so.  In one of the MX races in 2024 (forget which one) the camera was on Jett for the start and he got a uncharacteristic bad jump and he was close to a bike length behind coming off the gate.  Next thing you know, he ends up in the top 4 or so into the first corner.   

And in my thread here, you will see Hunter blast past everyone like they are going backwards:

https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/moto-related/hrc-continues-dominate-starts

The HRC start topic comes up often, even amongst the other riders acknowledging they have a special formula figured out that's working.  Most recently with RJ talking about how he tried a different Map last weekend and it was a huge improvement over what they were using in previous weeks, which was where RJ was giving it too much throttle down the straight.

Bottom line is, it takes more than just good reaction time to get these starts Honda is getting.  There's more to it than just the initial jump off the gate.

RichieW13
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7/7/2025 12:14pm Edited Date/Time 7/7/2025 12:14pm
Titan1 wrote:
I don’t know why Tomac practices anything besides starts during the week…fix those and the results fix themselves….its crazy that he is that far off ebery...

I don’t know why Tomac practices anything besides starts during the week…fix those and the results fix themselves….its crazy that he is that far off ebery start almost every moto…

RichieW13 wrote:
I wish we had data on gate-drop reaction times for the riders, to see which riders are the fastest to get their front tire over the...

I wish we had data on gate-drop reaction times for the riders, to see which riders are the fastest to get their front tire over the gate.

How much of a great start is about reaction time between the gate dropping and dropping the clutch?  How much is about the ability to keep traction to the ground for 100 yards?  How much is about being able to slow down to make the holeshot turn in time?

In Honda's case, the difference is made with traction in the first 50 yards or so.  In one of the MX races in 2024 (forget which...

In Honda's case, the difference is made with traction in the first 50 yards or so.  In one of the MX races in 2024 (forget which one) the camera was on Jett for the start and he got a uncharacteristic bad jump and he was close to a bike length behind coming off the gate.  Next thing you know, he ends up in the top 4 or so into the first corner.   

And in my thread here, you will see Hunter blast past everyone like they are going backwards:

https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/moto-related/hrc-continues-dominate-starts

The HRC start topic comes up often, even amongst the other riders acknowledging they have a special formula figured out that's working.  Most recently with RJ talking about how he tried a different Map last weekend and it was a huge improvement over what they were using in previous weeks, which was where RJ was giving it too much throttle down the straight.

Bottom line is, it takes more than just good reaction time to get these starts Honda is getting.  There's more to it than just the initial jump off the gate.

I think Jett also gets quick jumps.  Here is a photo from Southwick, where it looks like Jett and Plessinger have half a wheel on everybody else in the frame.  

7/7/2025 12:18pm
RichieW13 wrote:
I wish we had data on gate-drop reaction times for the riders, to see which riders are the fastest to get their front tire over the...

I wish we had data on gate-drop reaction times for the riders, to see which riders are the fastest to get their front tire over the gate.

How much of a great start is about reaction time between the gate dropping and dropping the clutch?  How much is about the ability to keep traction to the ground for 100 yards?  How much is about being able to slow down to make the holeshot turn in time?

In Honda's case, the difference is made with traction in the first 50 yards or so.  In one of the MX races in 2024 (forget which...

In Honda's case, the difference is made with traction in the first 50 yards or so.  In one of the MX races in 2024 (forget which one) the camera was on Jett for the start and he got a uncharacteristic bad jump and he was close to a bike length behind coming off the gate.  Next thing you know, he ends up in the top 4 or so into the first corner.   

And in my thread here, you will see Hunter blast past everyone like they are going backwards:

https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/moto-related/hrc-continues-dominate-starts

The HRC start topic comes up often, even amongst the other riders acknowledging they have a special formula figured out that's working.  Most recently with RJ talking about how he tried a different Map last weekend and it was a huge improvement over what they were using in previous weeks, which was where RJ was giving it too much throttle down the straight.

Bottom line is, it takes more than just good reaction time to get these starts Honda is getting.  There's more to it than just the initial jump off the gate.

RichieW13 wrote:
I think Jett also gets quick jumps.  Here is a photo from Southwick, where it looks like Jett and Plessinger have half a wheel on everybody...

I think Jett also gets quick jumps.  Here is a photo from Southwick, where it looks like Jett and Plessinger have half a wheel on everybody else in the frame.  

Yes, this is an example of a very good jump, but not all of his reaction times are like this. 

tomlopez
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Fantasy
7/7/2025 12:23pm
His starts aren’t helping anything but I don’t think he looks as comfortable as he did on the last generation bike, but that could very well...

His starts aren’t helping anything but I don’t think he looks as comfortable as he did on the last generation bike, but that could very well could be because he’s having to push that much harder to try and run the pace.

I do think there's something there with the chassis. I know he was one race away from winning the title, but in 2023, he didn't look as dominant as he did in 2022 on the old YZ frame. That was partially due to Sexton leveling up, but there were several races that year where he struggled to outright beat guys like Barcia, Plessinger, Roczen, etc... whereas in 2022, he was smoking those dudes every weekend and Anderson was the only person who had anything for him. 

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