Banning tear-offs in off-road racing?

mxbrian15
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3/31/2025 8:54am
MotoDad32 wrote:

Apparently, yes.  You're following things very well.

LOL. Got it.

3/31/2025 9:12am
MotoDad32 wrote:
That's great to hear - admittedly it's been many years (at least 5) since I'd been to one.  The spark arrestor thing (no spark arrestor, no...

That's great to hear - admittedly it's been many years (at least 5) since I'd been to one.  The spark arrestor thing (no spark arrestor, no race), colored number plate enforcement (not the right color you don't race - even when transponders are in use), and the workers riding around the pits on their dirtbikes looking to exert their authority - checking licenses for kids riding pit bikes, making sure they were in first gear, etc.  It really seemed ridiculous when it was all added up.    

I’m with you on the colored number plates while using transponders, just pick one or the other. The rest of it is just par for the course at any MX/off-road event I’ve ever been to 🤷🏻‍♂️. Hell, a lot of events don’t even allow pit bikes anymore regardless of operator age. 

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LungButter
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3/31/2025 9:19am
MotoDad32 wrote:
I don't participate in FTR because of the (my opinion) heavy-handed application of rules - spark arrestors, pit bikes, etc - the list is a mile...

I don't participate in FTR because of the (my opinion) heavy-handed application of rules - spark arrestors, pit bikes, etc - the list is a mile long.  Now tear-offs.  This is one more reminder of why I stay away from this group.  

That said, I know there are lots of folks that like that environment, it's just not for me.  Clearly I'm in the minority here, and that's fine.  You do you, I'll do me.

Tell us you've never spent your own time to help put on a race without telling us....

FTR is probably better off without you showing up anyway.

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MotoDad32
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3/31/2025 9:33am
MotoDad32 wrote:
I don't participate in FTR because of the (my opinion) heavy-handed application of rules - spark arrestors, pit bikes, etc - the list is a mile...

I don't participate in FTR because of the (my opinion) heavy-handed application of rules - spark arrestors, pit bikes, etc - the list is a mile long.  Now tear-offs.  This is one more reminder of why I stay away from this group.  

That said, I know there are lots of folks that like that environment, it's just not for me.  Clearly I'm in the minority here, and that's fine.  You do you, I'll do me.

LungButter wrote:

Tell us you've never spent your own time to help put on a race without telling us....

FTR is probably better off without you showing up anyway.

Probably.  It's a 'win/win' I guess for me and FTR...lol.  

Just wanted OP to know there's a different point of view out there, and not everything needs to be regulated.  Clearly I'm in the minority and that's fine with me.  There are other ways to address the problem/concern without ruining it for everyone - like me - that enjoys the performance and ease-of-use of tearoffs.  

20

The Shop

LungButter
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3/31/2025 9:42am
MotoDad32 wrote:
Probably.  It's a 'win/win' I guess for me and FTR...lol.  Just wanted OP to know there's a different point of view out there, and not everything...

Probably.  It's a 'win/win' I guess for me and FTR...lol.  

Just wanted OP to know there's a different point of view out there, and not everything needs to be regulated.  Clearly I'm in the minority and that's fine with me.  There are other ways to address the problem/concern without ruining it for everyone - like me - that enjoys the performance and ease-of-use of tearoffs.  

Would you volunteer to walk the course after the race and pick them all up?

 

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MotoDad32
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3/31/2025 9:50am
MotoDad32 wrote:
Probably.  It's a 'win/win' I guess for me and FTR...lol.  Just wanted OP to know there's a different point of view out there, and not everything...

Probably.  It's a 'win/win' I guess for me and FTR...lol.  

Just wanted OP to know there's a different point of view out there, and not everything needs to be regulated.  Clearly I'm in the minority and that's fine with me.  There are other ways to address the problem/concern without ruining it for everyone - like me - that enjoys the performance and ease-of-use of tearoffs.  

LungButter wrote:

Would you volunteer to walk the course after the race and pick them all up?

 

Probably not.  That said, I'd gladly donate $$ to give to the kids to have those little rugrats scour the course, like a little easter egg hunt or similar.  Make it a game/competition - e.g., give everyone $0.01/tearoff, and the one who collects the most gets some type of raffle prize.  I've seen it done (MX, not offroad, so much smaller track) and it's worked very, very well.  The track was spotless at the end.

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mxbrian15
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3/31/2025 9:51am
MotoDad32 wrote:
Probably.  It's a 'win/win' I guess for me and FTR...lol.  Just wanted OP to know there's a different point of view out there, and not everything...

Probably.  It's a 'win/win' I guess for me and FTR...lol.  

Just wanted OP to know there's a different point of view out there, and not everything needs to be regulated.  Clearly I'm in the minority and that's fine with me.  There are other ways to address the problem/concern without ruining it for everyone - like me - that enjoys the performance and ease-of-use of tearoffs.  

LungButter wrote:

Would you volunteer to walk the course after the race and pick them all up?

 

Probably not since that would require him to actually attend an event put on by FTR lol.

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LungButter
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3/31/2025 9:54am
MotoDad32 wrote:
Probably not.  That said, I'd gladly donate $$ to give to the kids to have those little rugrats scour the course, like a little easter egg...

Probably not.  That said, I'd gladly donate $$ to give to the kids to have those little rugrats scour the course, like a little easter egg hunt or similar.  Make it a game/competition - e.g., give everyone $0.01/tearoff, and the one who collects the most gets some type of raffle prize.  I've seen it done (MX, not offroad, so much smaller track) and it's worked very, very well.  The track was spotless at the end.

Fair enough.

As for the other "regulations" you don't like, that stuff is almost certainly mandated by insurance or land owner.  

No insurance and no land owners = no racing.

I really, really doubt that FTR is putting in regulations like that just for fun.

4
MotoDad32
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3/31/2025 10:07am
LungButter wrote:
Fair enough.As for the other "regulations" you don't like, that stuff is almost certainly mandated by insurance or land owner.  No insurance and no land owners...

Fair enough.

As for the other "regulations" you don't like, that stuff is almost certainly mandated by insurance or land owner.  

No insurance and no land owners = no racing.

I really, really doubt that FTR is putting in regulations like that just for fun.

Well, in fairness you haven't met the volunteers running around the pits on their dirtbikes eNfoRcIng tHe RuLes.  Lol.

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vtnewb
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3/31/2025 10:09am

I have a big offroad track at my house and nothing pisses me off more than litter. We're doing a regional scrambe race here this year and I'm going to have cans everywhere. 

That being said, I don't know the rules for the tearoffs in the new england clubs - I guess I'll have to look. My opinion is ban them.

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LungButter
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3/31/2025 10:10am
MotoDad32 wrote:

Well, in fairness you haven't met the volunteers running around the pits on their dirtbikes eNfoRcIng tHe RuLes.  Lol.

I suppose.

But that confuses me a little more, do you not like the rules or do you not like the volunteers who enforce the rules?

At the end of the day, rules like that are for everyones benefit so we can continue to enjoy the sport we love for years to come.  I understand where you're coming from not wanting "regulations" but in todays world that just can't be reality.

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Pop Shmoke
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3/31/2025 10:14am
Pop Shmoke wrote:
Either mandatory roll offs or mandatory biodegradable tear offs. Its not even a question. Yes roll offs arent as good but they still work. Hundreds of...

Either mandatory roll offs or mandatory biodegradable tear offs. Its not even a question. Yes roll offs arent as good but they still work. Hundreds of guys constantly throwing trash on the ground throughout the woods would be one of the strongest arguments ppl have against us riding. We want there to be as few reasons for ppl to be against us riding as possible. Ive always hated the tear off situation. Local tracks look like a 3rd world country with plastic waste as far as the eye can see. We have to do better. Some ppl say the biodegradable tear offs suck, well then companies need to innovate until they make good ones. There should be biodegradable tear offs that are good and plastic should be a thing of the past. 

mxbrian15 wrote:

How would they check to ensure the tear-offs are, in fact, biodegradable?

Make it so the biodegradable ones have a green dyed pull tab or something that way someone could go down the line and see it easily. It wouldnt be 100% fool proof, but nothing is. Maybe make the pull tab a different shape too so regular ones stick out if mixed in. Idk just thinking off the top of my head, I’m sure someone could come up with a good idea.

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USA
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3/31/2025 10:34am
MotoDad32 wrote:
Probably.  It's a 'win/win' I guess for me and FTR...lol.  Just wanted OP to know there's a different point of view out there, and not everything...

Probably.  It's a 'win/win' I guess for me and FTR...lol.  

Just wanted OP to know there's a different point of view out there, and not everything needs to be regulated.  Clearly I'm in the minority and that's fine with me.  There are other ways to address the problem/concern without ruining it for everyone - like me - that enjoys the performance and ease-of-use of tearoffs.  

"Clearly I'm in the minority".."there are other ways to address the problem without ruining it for everyone"

You consider yourself "everyone"?

I'm sorry you had a bad experience. Shoot, I mean that everyone had a bad experience. 

4
MotoDad32
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3/31/2025 10:40am
LungButter wrote:
I suppose.But that confuses me a little more, do you not like the rules or do you not like the volunteers who enforce the rules?At the...

I suppose.

But that confuses me a little more, do you not like the rules or do you not like the volunteers who enforce the rules?

At the end of the day, rules like that are for everyones benefit so we can continue to enjoy the sport we love for years to come.  I understand where you're coming from not wanting "regulations" but in todays world that just can't be reality.

It's not an either/or in this instance, it's both.

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5
3/31/2025 11:15am
It would be nice to see someone come out with biodegradable tear-offs that offer the same performance as the current offerings.  Until then, I don't blame...

It would be nice to see someone come out with biodegradable tear-offs that offer the same performance as the current offerings.  Until then, I don't blame landowners and promoters from prohibiting them.

Paintballs have long been biodegradable.  Airsoft BBs have been moving away from plastic to biodegradable as well.  Doing so was pretty much mandatory to allow those activities to still be allowed outdoors.

 

davis224 wrote:
The issue with biodegradable plastic is that it still takes quite a while to go away, so cows/other animals can still eat them before they go...

The issue with biodegradable plastic is that it still takes quite a while to go away, so cows/other animals can still eat them before they go away. Them eventually going away is still a plus, but it's not a proper catch all fix.

Fair enough.  Depending upon the material, they could be made where animals could consume them without issue.  Perhaps cellulose or something?  Matterials science is far outside of my wheelhouse.

Side note, IIRC one person/entity owns the licensing for tear-offs (or maybe it was laminated tear-offs) and everyone else licenses the patent.  Is that still the case?

AMetts
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3/31/2025 11:20am

NEPG banned them and I know a few buddies that have had good luck with those stick on hydrophobic things. Enduro is pretty easy to get away with that since you aren't usually getting roosted and can switch or clean goggles every stage though.  

The problem with rolloffs usually for me is you probably get hit in the face 100 times with twigs and vines and makes them slide around and get yanked and you get the streamer effect. I only really need 2-3 tear offs in a non mudder 2 hour race so maybe a biodegradable option would work in such a small stack where clarity isn't a issue?

1
3/31/2025 11:21am

Don’t need to ban them, just come up with a catchment system like I’ve seen on I think the GPs? Blue I’m sure the giggle companies would love to be able to sell said systems for 25-40 bucks a pop lol 

3/31/2025 11:21am

all off road has had tearoff bans for nearly a decade here, and some moto tracks enforce it as well, 

2
3/31/2025 11:23am

Also worth mentioning that roll offs do take away some of your peripheral vision, that’s why I could never run them atleast 

1
otrdave
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3/31/2025 11:39am

What a bunch of soy boys on this site.

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Spooner
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3/31/2025 11:54am
AMetts wrote:
NEPG banned them and I know a few buddies that have had good luck with those stick on hydrophobic things. Enduro is pretty easy to get...

NEPG banned them and I know a few buddies that have had good luck with those stick on hydrophobic things. Enduro is pretty easy to get away with that since you aren't usually getting roosted and can switch or clean goggles every stage though.  

The problem with rolloffs usually for me is you probably get hit in the face 100 times with twigs and vines and makes them slide around and get yanked and you get the streamer effect. I only really need 2-3 tear offs in a non mudder 2 hour race so maybe a biodegradable option would work in such a small stack where clarity isn't a issue?

Maybe for non-muddy races they could set up a few 'tear off zones' that you are allowed to pull them and they are all collected?  In my area we rarely are able to race when its muddy at all so I budget for 1 per lap plus a couple extra and usually just pull them as I come through scoring.  

1
3/31/2025 11:57am
It would be nice to see someone come out with biodegradable tear-offs that offer the same performance as the current offerings.  Until then, I don't blame...

It would be nice to see someone come out with biodegradable tear-offs that offer the same performance as the current offerings.  Until then, I don't blame landowners and promoters from prohibiting them.

Paintballs have long been biodegradable.  Airsoft BBs have been moving away from plastic to biodegradable as well.  Doing so was pretty much mandatory to allow those activities to still be allowed outdoors.

 

davis224 wrote:
The issue with biodegradable plastic is that it still takes quite a while to go away, so cows/other animals can still eat them before they go...

The issue with biodegradable plastic is that it still takes quite a while to go away, so cows/other animals can still eat them before they go away. Them eventually going away is still a plus, but it's not a proper catch all fix.

Fair enough.  Depending upon the material, they could be made where animals could consume them without issue.  Perhaps cellulose or something?  Matterials science is far outside...

Fair enough.  Depending upon the material, they could be made where animals could consume them without issue.  Perhaps cellulose or something?  Matterials science is far outside of my wheelhouse.

Side note, IIRC one person/entity owns the licensing for tear-offs (or maybe it was laminated tear-offs) and everyone else licenses the patent.  Is that still the case?

Edible tear-offs  that are healthy for animals to eat are the answer. I'm half kidding around. If that was possible, it would be a good work around.

 

 Since moving to a property that has a river with some smaller streams that run into it. I have noticed how much trash and other objects happen to float by and or end up in my yard after a storm that has the river running high.  Balls from a school field a mile away are all over the woods along the river. This river runs into another larger river that then runs into the ocean. I've thought about trying to take a jet ski from my house to the ocean. There is a small patch of wetlands that is just across  the street, under a bridge  that would be the tough spot . If I can make it through there I can get into a major river that runs out to the ocean. It would be doable in a kayak for sure. It has opened my eyes to how easy it is for trash to get into the ocean. This river also runs beside some major roads and under highways on its way to the ocean. So much trash likely blows into it along the way. I imagine tear-offs would travel in the river really well.   I'm 30ish miles from  the coast and open ocean, 14 miles from where a bay starts and the river meets it. It is pretty wild how far trash will travel.

 

 I'm all for doing what is needed to keep land owners happy. I want to try some of those stick on hydrophobic things . I don't understand why nobody is cutting them to fit exactly the shape of a lens , its always a strip that I see.  I would love to find a coating I could apply to my lenses that worked as well as those stick on things.  If they could make hydrophobic tear-offs, that could help reduce how many are needed. I know that wouldn't fix the issue of plastic all over the place  . But it could help reduce it, and be a product people would want to use. 

 

It would be hard to police the use of bio degradable tear-offs.  Somebody could change them out after a signup inspection .Then You would need officials to also enforce  the rule somehow.   

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LungButter
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3/31/2025 12:00pm
otrdave wrote:

What a bunch of soy boys on this site.

You sound so tough.... or ignorant..... yeah, the more I think about it, it's that second one for sure.

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4
McG194
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3/31/2025 12:09pm
MotoDad32 wrote:
I don't participate in FTR because of the (my opinion) heavy-handed application of rules - spark arrestors, pit bikes, etc - the list is a mile...

I don't participate in FTR because of the (my opinion) heavy-handed application of rules - spark arrestors, pit bikes, etc - the list is a mile long.  Now tear-offs.  This is one more reminder of why I stay away from this group.  

That said, I know there are lots of folks that like that environment, it's just not for me.  Clearly I'm in the minority here, and that's fine.  You do you, I'll do me.

LungButter wrote:

Tell us you've never spent your own time to help put on a race without telling us....

FTR is probably better off without you showing up anyway.

MotoDad32 wrote:
Probably.  It's a 'win/win' I guess for me and FTR...lol.  Just wanted OP to know there's a different point of view out there, and not everything...

Probably.  It's a 'win/win' I guess for me and FTR...lol.  

Just wanted OP to know there's a different point of view out there, and not everything needs to be regulated.  Clearly I'm in the minority and that's fine with me.  There are other ways to address the problem/concern without ruining it for everyone - like me - that enjoys the performance and ease-of-use of tearoffs.  

I'm obviously aware that there are different points of view, any rational person would assume that was the reason for posting a poll.

The fact that you are arguing about not letting kids run wild in the pits kind of tells us all we need to know. 

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JazzyJJ
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3/31/2025 12:09pm
otrdave wrote:

What a bunch of soy boys on this site.

How does your daddy andrew tate feel about this?

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sorbee
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3/31/2025 12:19pm

False flag in my humble opinion. Greenwashing just like decibel reduction. All about technocracy, paperwork and more rules everywhere so they can close any and every track after. I understand the logic for a pasture or a grass track that's used once or twice a year.
But let's be honest, 99% of tracks are annual, raced and practiced facilities with almost no neighbors, or neighbors who built after the track was.. No cow, no horse, nothing. I get the fact that you don't litter your soda can or snack packaging but thats totally different, that's common sense.
If you start to accept federal or 'higher government' rules, then you start giving them your wrist, they'll end up taking your arm, just like covid times... hope you remember that?
I am a Euro so I can tell you those strings don't work. Tear offs end up flying and parting everywhere, even worse, or they come back into your mouth and you get choked.. such a bad solution.
That being said I'd be okay with biodegradable ones but honestly whatever, the tools behind the tractors are so powerful you won't even notice it the week after. And it's not like we're gonna grow veggies on the track... This is just like saying we're only allowing 110dB when most new bikes don't even make it.
I am a farmer myself but I hope this green wave will be gone soon just like the LGBT shit is falling down nowadays..

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McG194
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3/31/2025 12:25pm
MotoDad32 wrote:
That's great to hear - admittedly it's been many years (at least 5) since I'd been to one.  The spark arrestor thing (no spark arrestor, no...

That's great to hear - admittedly it's been many years (at least 5) since I'd been to one.  The spark arrestor thing (no spark arrestor, no race), colored number plate enforcement (not the right color you don't race - even when transponders are in use), and the workers riding around the pits on their dirtbikes looking to exert their authority - checking licenses for kids riding pit bikes, making sure they were in first gear, etc.  It really seemed ridiculous when it was all added up.    

Rickyisms wrote:
I’m with you on the colored number plates while using transponders, just pick one or the other. The rest of it is just par for the...

I’m with you on the colored number plates while using transponders, just pick one or the other. The rest of it is just par for the course at any MX/off-road event I’ve ever been to 🤷🏻‍♂️. Hell, a lot of events don’t even allow pit bikes anymore regardless of operator age. 

Colored numberplates may seem silly but there are multiple reasons for using them. 

1) Passing racers can easily identify if another racer is in their class. (No need to race with someone you're not racing)

2) Back up scoring which is done visually.

3) Most importantly it's for safety. If a rider goes down somewhere in the trail a track worker will call it in by number and color. Example "green background 42 with a b is in need of medical help a little after mile marker 2." The safety team will know where to go and who to look for and a worried spouse will go up to the scoring trailer and ask where her husband is and we will be able to inform her and tell her where her husband will be taken to. 

 

Bottom line is following rules suck but trying to run events that average around 900-1000 racers a weekend and keep them as safe as possible is not an easy task.

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3/31/2025 12:54pm
madskinen wrote:

Tear-offs are allready banned in Denmark

McG194 wrote:

Isn't that where Greta Thunberg is from? 

If so, you guys don't count.  🤣😂🤣

Haha no, Greta is from Sweden, quite close to Denmark 😂

3
Beagle
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3/31/2025 1:07pm

Armor vision seems to work pretty well

2
MotoDad32
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3/31/2025 6:20pm
sorbee wrote:
False flag in my humble opinion. Greenwashing just like decibel reduction. All about technocracy, paperwork and more rules everywhere so they can close any and every...

False flag in my humble opinion. Greenwashing just like decibel reduction. All about technocracy, paperwork and more rules everywhere so they can close any and every track after. I understand the logic for a pasture or a grass track that's used once or twice a year.
But let's be honest, 99% of tracks are annual, raced and practiced facilities with almost no neighbors, or neighbors who built after the track was.. No cow, no horse, nothing. I get the fact that you don't litter your soda can or snack packaging but thats totally different, that's common sense.
If you start to accept federal or 'higher government' rules, then you start giving them your wrist, they'll end up taking your arm, just like covid times... hope you remember that?
I am a Euro so I can tell you those strings don't work. Tear offs end up flying and parting everywhere, even worse, or they come back into your mouth and you get choked.. such a bad solution.
That being said I'd be okay with biodegradable ones but honestly whatever, the tools behind the tractors are so powerful you won't even notice it the week after. And it's not like we're gonna grow veggies on the track... This is just like saying we're only allowing 110dB when most new bikes don't even make it.
I am a farmer myself but I hope this green wave will be gone soon just like the LGBT shit is falling down nowadays..

Exactly.

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