More than likey I'm overthinking this but I'm trying to properly torque the triple clamps on a 19 RMZ250. The manual calls for 17 ftlbs both top and bottom. Everything is like new and clean. The problem I am having is that during torqueing the bolts, they are creaky and notchy. No matter how little force I apply trying to get a consistent and progressive tightening, they bind then free up and I am afraid that I am blowing past my setting. My first thought is that these need some lube, but I've read torque specs are engineered dry, and adding anything to the threads will skew the reading.
Anyone else have this problem, am I missing something? I'm trying to run 17 up top and 13 on the bottom, figuring that I'm overtightening them. Any thoughts are appreciated!
Lube em up. I like copper grease on my triple clamp bolts, only lube the end few threads and not any part of the exposed bolt otherwise it will just attract loads of dirt and dust and make a mess.
A tiny blob on the shoulder of the bolt helps it to not stick to the bolt surface on the triple clamp as well.
You can get away with dropping a few ftlbs with this method.
Clean everything up and reinstall using Loctite C5A anti-seize on both the threads and under the bolt head, then drop the torque spec by 40% and you're sorted. Mark them with a paint pen afterwards for an easy visual of whether or not they've come loose.
Long explanation here: https://www.luxonmx.com/blog-luxon-bolt-torque-tension.html
I have never torqued a Suzuki but I thought the typical old torque was 17 top and 14 lower? Lower was always less so it reduces the chances of egg shaping the tube causing stiction
Clean out the threads in the clamps. All it takes is a couple pieces of dirt to make the bolts grind/notchy as they thread in.
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Just to make it clear, on a 12/20 nm torque for a triple clamp, if i lube the head and threads, i should go to 8/12nm? 😬
I understand the concept, just sounds risky? My forks move right now after a moto, and I'm using 12/20. Fork and clamp is cleaned properly. Wondering if not going to have the forks up in the bars after a lap 😄
I have a reasonably new clamp, and there is no squeaky noise when torque is applied (smooth all the way to right torque), but my power parts clamp (ktm) with more hours on it for sure make that noise. Maybe I'm not then getting the right torque on the power parts due to higher resistance?
Yes, that's correct. The actual torque is irrelevant, all that matters is the clamping load created by the bolts. With Loctite C5A anti-seize, you get the same clamping load as a dry bolt with 40% less torque due to the reduced friction.
If your forks are still moving after you do this and both the tubes and clamps are clean and dry when assembled, you can increase torque on the top up to 15 Nm with no issues. If you still have issues, you can increase the bottom torque, but it also increases binding with the fork bushings. And if you are having issues at that point, something is wrong, likely poor tolerances on the fork tubes or the clamps (likely the clamps).
Great, thanks 🙏
Appreciate all the input and thank you Luxon for the article it was pretty interesting. Just to clarify all of this applies to my OEM Suzuki triple clamps and oem bolts?
Also..at the end of the article it mentioned the variance in tension could be as much as 40% or more with lube..Is that just with Luxon clamps/bolts..or? Im wondering why 40% is the magic # when it sounds like it could be +/-.. and how I could be confident with that # as it pertains specifically to the Suzuki? If zook calls for 17 ft.lbs. both top and bottom on the stock stuff and I apply the c5a and drop to say 10 top/bottom?
Lastly..any good places for sourcing this loctite c5a? Thanks a ton!
The torque tension relationship and how it is effected by friction applies to all bolts across the board.
The addition of C5A under the bolt head and on the threads drops the friction by about 40% vs. a dry steel bolt without any fancy coatings in dry raw aluminum threads, which applies to most all dirt bike triple clamp scenarios. This 40% number comes from both the Loctite datasheet and our own testing.
But it really doesn't much matter. The right torque in your scenario (the right bolt tension, really) is the least amount you can use that doesn't allow the forks to slip. You always want the least amount of torque on the bottom triple clamp bolts to minimize tube distortion and allow the fork bushings to slide through easier. The top clamp bolts don't much matter as nothing slides through there, so a more standard torque applies to those.
The stock torque is a good starting point to achieve this goal. But the stock torque is based on dry bolts. If you add the anti-seize, then it drops the friction by 40% and therefore you should drop the stock torque value by 40% as well.
Loctite C5A is readily available at most any industrial hardware store, some auto parts stores, and online. Just do a search for it and it will come up. The 1 oz or larger sizes are nice as they're resealable and that amount will last quite a while.
Thank you! So I finally tracked down some c5a locally for a reasonable price and lathered up the threads and bolt head. I was happy to find that the notchy/creakiness was gone during tightening. I was interested to see how the c5a would change the tension or atleast the feel.. I am 100% NOT sure that is is a valid indicator of anything but I did one side top/bottom dry with the 17 ft. lb stock torque specs, and I did the other side top/bottom with c5a. I did 10 ft lbs on top and 8 ft.lbs on bottom. I took digital caliper and measured the distance of the open area between the clamps where the bolts go. I noticed that even with my reduced torque specs that gap was +/- 0.5mm smaller on the c5a side.. I also found that when loosening the c5a side felt as though they were barely tight, even though they measure out and look like the clamp is tighter than the dry/stock side.. I'm not sure any of this is making a lot of sense or if that is a valid way to tell anything, but it almost seems to me like 40% reduction is not enough (compared to stock dry side) even though when loosening it feels hardly tight. I'm guessing this is because of the less friction? I'm gonna run 10 ft lbs up top and 8 down below and see..just some thoughts and observations. What do you think? Thx!
Keep in mind that the dry torque value suggested by the manufacturer is for brand new bolts in new clamps, completely clean, etc. Yours likely have some corrosion, the bolt has been used so the coating is a little worn, water/dirt has built up on the surfaces, etc., so it would take more torque to achieve proper tension on that than with a brand new dry setup.
Also, the torque specs are typically listed in Nm rather than ft*lbs, so make sure your conversion is correct. A ft*lb is ~35% higher than a Nm. You're currently at about 11 bottom, 14 top Nm, which should be fine, if not a little high.
I used copper paste previous weekend on my SXF factory Triple clamp bolts, and dropped the torque to 8nm on lower and 12 on upper.
Forks did not move at all in clamp despite heavy landings, so all good on that point. Would even say they moved less since i normally have to adjust on or the other dök leg between sessions.
Could maybe go to 10-11 on upper but on upper it should not matter that much i guess.
Hi, what do you suggest for torque when using ca5 on stock yz250x clamps with oem spec of 15 ft lbs top and bottom?
Should i reduce by 40% I am confused since in your install instruction for your clamps(yamaha) you are using 8/12nm. 60% of 15 ft lbs = 12.2 NM. What do you recommend I use on my stock clamps? Is the a safe lower/upper torque range?
Thank you
Just use 40% less torque from OEM specs as a starting point with Loctite C5A anti-seize on the threads and under the bolt head. Our clamps will have different specs as they have different bolts (lengths, head diameters, etc.) than OEM Yamaha, plus the OEM specs vary a bit for each manufacturer.
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