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At the end of the day, this is the world we all live in.
Power over what?
Didn't Russia once consider joining NATO? Seems like if they had that was the time to join forces.
The short-term gain of ending the conflict on Russia-friendly terms will eventually result in detrimental effects long-term. It always has.
Edited to add:
Several folks here seem to be overly concerned about the war ending on terms beneficial to Russia, while forgetting the war was prolonged by the US under the prior administration as a proxy war. The US used Afghanistan to fight a proxy war against the Soviet Union, then abandoned them right after and didn't help with rebuilding their war torn country. The previous administration was more than willing to sacrifice young Ukrainian and Russian men (as well as civilians) for their own gain. This war should have been ended long ago, but leaving it for Trump's administration was also a planned outcome.
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What other conflicts have been ended on Russia friendly terms for your basis of thought?
Great New York Times photo essay on the 80th anniversary of Iwo Jima.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/23/world/asia/the-battle-of-iwo-jima-a-history.html?unlocked_article_code=1.zE4.EkLU.8eRtMiDpwAQ2&smid=url-share
As the Red Hats here in the States prepare to celebrate Trump's reprehensible abandonment of Ukraine--the greatest betrayal of an ally in the history of the United States--seeing these photos reminds me of the generation of Americans who sacrificed everything to preserve democracy. Not only do we no longer have the will to do the right thing--we don't even know what the right thing is.
Are you not aware of Afghanistan?
Perhaps you can remind us what the Obama administration response was when Russia took Crimea?
Differences between the two conflicts too numerous to even start to get into here. I would recommend not using the basics of a public school education in any discussion on history.
If you guys think that the country who invaded the other and has support from Iran and North Korea are the good guys then really there’s no debate to be had.
Silver lining, n. korean soldiers discovered porn.
Nobody is stating who are the "good guys". Trump is negotiating with the the combatant that can end the war. What would be the point of negotiating with Ukraine, of course they want the war over. Trump needs to negotiate with Russia to pull out, not with Ukraine to have Russia pull out.
My bad. “It” is a historical context of appeasing aggressors in the name of peace. That peace is inevitably short-lived as the aggressor is now emboldened and relived of serious responsibility. Let’s hope Trump is a better negotiator than that.
There was literally zero communication between Biden, Blinken and Russia the last administration. We need grown ups in the room who can actually show maturity and keep relations or at least discussions with a country like Russia. And so we see the results of no communication and arrogance from one super power to another.
Pouring billions of dollars worth of military support that directly lead to the death of hundreds of thousands of Russians is appeasement? This isn’t Hitler in 1939 bro. And even Chamberlin knew Britain was not ready for war and needed time to build up its strength.
It's a very childish notion to try and frame this as good guys versus bad guys.
Trump demanding all kinds of things from Ukraine to pay us back for helping them fend off the Russians the last 3 years.
Meanwhile... https://www.cfr.org/article/us-aid-israel-four-charts
Go MAGA!
Did you even read and understand that article you posted? 🤣🤣🤣
I know, it’s an insane perspective. But “appeasement” had nothing to do with Russians, dead or alive. This is strictly a negotiation with Putin, the Russian people’s worst enemy. And we are giving him the leverage to negotiate withdrawal terms. It’s a terrible starting point for any negotiation, regardless of topic or consequences.
Pit Row
I know a lot of Russians and while some have some complaints and bitch like any other citizen of a country, none of them consider him the enemy’s biggest enemy. I know way more Westerners who have that sentiment about their current or previous leaders.
Russia already has all the leverage, nobody needs to hand them anything. What does Ukraine have to negotiate? They are gonna lose their country and identity eventually if they don’t sue for peace. Ukraine is done.
And I believe you. But it’s not about a person vocalizing their position; it’s about reality. Putin rules Russia with an iron fist and is willing to sacrifice hundreds of thousands over a paranoid delusion. Any semblance of opposition is struck down with impunity, with many meeting their end in very suspect ways. Your friends know this and perhaps have come to accept Russia’s fate. But they also know life in Russia will not improve with Putin at the helm.
Wonder if they would rather go back to the way it was before Putin but after the fall of the Soviet Union, when the Western world was failing spectacularly at implementing democracy there?
Church of Brap playbook:
-cry like a bitch
-repeat
Democracy takes time and effort. Russia had never truly been a democracy before Gorby, and when it didn’t succeed immediately, the resulting power vacuum led to what we have today. Countries, like people, often accept the security of the known over the fear of the unknown.
The United States was not an immediate success, either, and many power brokers preferred existing under the king’s rule. But the core architects stuck to the plan, even though it remains a work in progress for us and democracies around the world.
Very, very, very different scenarios you have shared. Not even a shred of similarity between the two.
Scott Bessent just said that the US and Ukraine are "on the one yard line" in terms of closing a minerals deal.
Sounds like some hefty sanctions are in order. Hopefully there is some restitution for the U.S. taxpayer here.
What a damn mess Joe created. There is no good guy in this.
It is worrying that the ten maybe even hundred thousands of lives that got lost in the wars to prevent the Russian involvement (Asian wars, Gulf War 1...) all gets thrown away because Trump is a fan from the Russian man and his followers defend what Trump says. It is indeed childish to frame this as a good and bad battle it is more like a cult. You can also ask yourself if he understands the Geo-politician game. If he goes "in bed" with Russia or Putin, you can't keep bashing China. Because that is an ally of Russia and they won't let Trump walk if he keeps them smothering with taxes and his "they are our economic enemy" story. This makes it a very interesting story. Will President Trump, the leader from a country that is so liberal and open market focused that, they called Barack Obama a communist and socialist for his effort in realizing affordable medical care, go to bed with Russia and China. Both countries can hardly be called communist, but they do not have a free market. Russia still bears most resemblance to the old communism, although it is in fact just a right-wing oriented dictatorship where residents have no say and are poorly paid by mostly state-owned companies. The Chinese government in turn has a stake in every Chinese multinational and foreign companies can only start working in China if they have found a Chinese partner company.
Trump calls Reagan the best President ever, but he's shitting on his legacy. because On the world stage, he escalated the arms race, increased military spending, transitioned Cold War policy away from the policies of chillax with the Soviet Union. But team Orange, wants to be bro's with Putin and while we all look at Israel and Ukrain is China and Russia gaining more and more influence in Africa, and South America. If it isn't with the smart BRICS alliance than with mercenaries who fight for the more interesting country who owns the sources of nature as cobalt, copper, tin, ...
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