In defense of the AMA Officials

Springcreek
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2/18/2025 1:25pm
is that a trick question?? The current race duration of the 250 main is 15 minutes plus 1 lap. 90% of 15 minutes is 13 mins 30secs. Let’s say...

is that a trick question?? 

The current race duration of the 250 main is 15 minutes plus 1 lap. 

90% of 15 minutes is 13 mins 30secs. 

Let’s say ‘1 lap’ average is 1 minute, so 90% of that is 54 seconds. 

So by that calculation from the moment the gate drops, if the race is red flagged after 14 minutes & 24 seconds that would be called a result and not re-started. 

(In last weeks case, the race had run for 14 minutes and 53 seconds)


 

scott_nz wrote:
your making assumptions in that calculations,  as if the rider crossed 2 seconds before the 15 minters was up, they would do all but 15 min...

your making assumptions in that calculations,  as if the rider crossed 2 seconds before the 15 minters was up, they would do all but 15 min  plus 2 laps, what is  the 90 % then?

the current rule is very specific, and does not need assumptions for any race,  (mains, heats, LCQ's and triple crowns all have different lengths of time,

exactly why 90% does not work and open for controversy.

changing the time runs out to a number like 12 or 14 would work but Max still would have lost a big lead but would have had more time to regain it.

1
vet323
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2/18/2025 1:39pm
rileymx wrote:
it took them 2 full laps to understand that they had to stop the race,that was one lap from the finish.........from one side, huge fail in...

it took them 2 full laps to understand that they had to stop the race,that was one lap from the finish.........from one side, huge fail in the medical assist department, as usual !!!!!!........but on the other hand, they waited all they could to play their move, or a Britt would win  again..........

so in the end of the day all props to AMA,FELD and the medical crew, the downed rider was not badly hurt ( we all saw that one lap before the red flag)........and the Britt didnt win........

another great day of racing in the best and most professional series of supercross in the world .......

 

This Britt chick sounds hot as hell!

2/18/2025 1:44pm
is that a trick question?? The current race duration of the 250 main is 15 minutes plus 1 lap. 90% of 15 minutes is 13 mins 30secs. Let’s say...

is that a trick question?? 

The current race duration of the 250 main is 15 minutes plus 1 lap. 

90% of 15 minutes is 13 mins 30secs. 

Let’s say ‘1 lap’ average is 1 minute, so 90% of that is 54 seconds. 

So by that calculation from the moment the gate drops, if the race is red flagged after 14 minutes & 24 seconds that would be called a result and not re-started. 

(In last weeks case, the race had run for 14 minutes and 53 seconds)


 

scott_nz wrote:
your making assumptions in that calculations,  as if the rider crossed 2 seconds before the 15 minters was up, they would do all but 15 min...

your making assumptions in that calculations,  as if the rider crossed 2 seconds before the 15 minters was up, they would do all but 15 min  plus 2 laps, what is  the 90 % then?

the current rule is very specific, and does not need assumptions for any race,  (mains, heats, LCQ's and triple crowns all have different lengths of time,

90% of 15 minutes, is 90% of 15 minutes. 

The red flag either flies before 90% or after 90%, it’s irrelevant where the leader is on the track, if the red flag flies after the 90% of the 15 minutes, it’s a result. (Or should be) 

And yes, different races are different durations. 90% can be calculated on any of them. 

You’re struggling with this aren’t you.. 

 

2
2
2/18/2025 1:48pm

I still don't understand the need for the red flag.  Couldn't stop the bleeding?  Bones sticking through the skin?  Unconscious?  They do have radio communication with each other.  Just throw the checkered flag and be done with it.

1.1.5 PRINCIPLE RULE OF INTERPRETATION AND APPLICATION a. The AMA Rules are intended to ensure that AMA-sanctioned Events are conducted in a manner that is as fair as possible for all Competitors, consistent with prompt finality in competition results. b. On occasion, circumstances will be presented that are either unforeseen or are otherwise extraordinary, in which strict application of the AMA Rules may not achieve this goal. In such rare circumstances, the Race Officials, as a practical matter, may make a determination regarding the conduct of an Event, the eligibility of a Competitor, or similar matters that are not contemplated by or are inconsistent with the AMA Rules, in order to achieve this goal. 1.1.6 INTERPRETATION AND APPLICATION a. AMA’s intent of a specific rule will override a competitor’s interpretation of a rule. If there is a disagreement or dispute regarding the meaning or application of the AMA Rules, the interpretation and application by AMA shall prevail. If any rule is unclear to an entrant or competitor, the competitor is advised to get written approval prior to any modifications. Any prior verbal approval from AMA staff or officials without a written statement regarding the interpretation of a rule or procedure will be deemed invalid. b. Notwithstanding the foregoing or any other provision in the Rule Book, Race Officials at an Event may review, adjust, modify, and/or supersede an interpretation or application of the AMA Rules when the Race Officials deem such action to be appropriate, such as instructions given by Race Direction at an Event’s Rider briefing. c. While every effort has been made to write these rules in a clear and unambiguous fashion, it is impossible to anticipate every circumstance. It will be Race Direction’s responsibility to make decisions regarding rules enforcement. d. The current electronic version of the Rule Book, including any Amendments by AMA Bulletin prior to the disputed incident, shall govern.

1

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FastEddy
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2/18/2025 2:05pm
I still don't understand the need for the red flag.  Couldn't stop the bleeding?  Bones sticking through the skin?  Unconscious?  They do have radio communication with...

I still don't understand the need for the red flag.  Couldn't stop the bleeding?  Bones sticking through the skin?  Unconscious?  They do have radio communication with each other.  Just throw the checkered flag and be done with it.

1.1.5 PRINCIPLE RULE OF INTERPRETATION AND APPLICATION a. The AMA Rules are intended to ensure that AMA-sanctioned Events are conducted in a manner that is as fair as possible for all Competitors, consistent with prompt finality in competition results. b. On occasion, circumstances will be presented that are either unforeseen or are otherwise extraordinary, in which strict application of the AMA Rules may not achieve this goal. In such rare circumstances, the Race Officials, as a practical matter, may make a determination regarding the conduct of an Event, the eligibility of a Competitor, or similar matters that are not contemplated by or are inconsistent with the AMA Rules, in order to achieve this goal. 1.1.6 INTERPRETATION AND APPLICATION a. AMA’s intent of a specific rule will override a competitor’s interpretation of a rule. If there is a disagreement or dispute regarding the meaning or application of the AMA Rules, the interpretation and application by AMA shall prevail. If any rule is unclear to an entrant or competitor, the competitor is advised to get written approval prior to any modifications. Any prior verbal approval from AMA staff or officials without a written statement regarding the interpretation of a rule or procedure will be deemed invalid. b. Notwithstanding the foregoing or any other provision in the Rule Book, Race Officials at an Event may review, adjust, modify, and/or supersede an interpretation or application of the AMA Rules when the Race Officials deem such action to be appropriate, such as instructions given by Race Direction at an Event’s Rider briefing. c. While every effort has been made to write these rules in a clear and unambiguous fashion, it is impossible to anticipate every circumstance. It will be Race Direction’s responsibility to make decisions regarding rules enforcement. d. The current electronic version of the Rule Book, including any Amendments by AMA Bulletin prior to the disputed incident, shall govern.

"I still don't understand the need for the red flag."

It was for safe track access for the medics.  One medic got to him safely and was there for nearly 2 laps , I also believe by then he was coherent.  That medic radioed for more medics to assist (I believe to help him off because his knee was hurt also). They then threw the red flag. They didn't look at the clock before throwing it.

2/18/2025 2:22pm
FastEddy wrote:
Asking for a friend...Has anyone on here ever red flagged a race for a facial laceration already checked out by one medic with 7 seconds left...

Asking for a friend...

Has anyone on here ever red flagged a race for a facial laceration already checked out by one medic with 7 seconds left ,so that more medics could come and look at it too? 

It’s possible they didn’t know that he didn’t have other injuries at the time. 

That's always the case. Not knowing does not equal red flag. He appeared conscious and mobile. Not sure why a red cross flag did not suffice. 

1
2
2/18/2025 2:23pm
I still don't understand the need for the red flag.  Couldn't stop the bleeding?  Bones sticking through the skin?  Unconscious?  They do have radio communication with...

I still don't understand the need for the red flag.  Couldn't stop the bleeding?  Bones sticking through the skin?  Unconscious?  They do have radio communication with each other.  Just throw the checkered flag and be done with it.

1.1.5 PRINCIPLE RULE OF INTERPRETATION AND APPLICATION a. The AMA Rules are intended to ensure that AMA-sanctioned Events are conducted in a manner that is as fair as possible for all Competitors, consistent with prompt finality in competition results. b. On occasion, circumstances will be presented that are either unforeseen or are otherwise extraordinary, in which strict application of the AMA Rules may not achieve this goal. In such rare circumstances, the Race Officials, as a practical matter, may make a determination regarding the conduct of an Event, the eligibility of a Competitor, or similar matters that are not contemplated by or are inconsistent with the AMA Rules, in order to achieve this goal. 1.1.6 INTERPRETATION AND APPLICATION a. AMA’s intent of a specific rule will override a competitor’s interpretation of a rule. If there is a disagreement or dispute regarding the meaning or application of the AMA Rules, the interpretation and application by AMA shall prevail. If any rule is unclear to an entrant or competitor, the competitor is advised to get written approval prior to any modifications. Any prior verbal approval from AMA staff or officials without a written statement regarding the interpretation of a rule or procedure will be deemed invalid. b. Notwithstanding the foregoing or any other provision in the Rule Book, Race Officials at an Event may review, adjust, modify, and/or supersede an interpretation or application of the AMA Rules when the Race Officials deem such action to be appropriate, such as instructions given by Race Direction at an Event’s Rider briefing. c. While every effort has been made to write these rules in a clear and unambiguous fashion, it is impossible to anticipate every circumstance. It will be Race Direction’s responsibility to make decisions regarding rules enforcement. d. The current electronic version of the Rule Book, including any Amendments by AMA Bulletin prior to the disputed incident, shall govern.

FastEddy wrote:
"I still don't understand the need for the red flag."It was for safe track access for the medics.  One medic got to him safely and...

"I still don't understand the need for the red flag."

It was for safe track access for the medics.  One medic got to him safely and was there for nearly 2 laps , I also believe by then he was coherent.  That medic radioed for more medics to assist (I believe to help him off because his knee was hurt also). They then threw the red flag. They didn't look at the clock before throwing it.

Frankly not a good explanation for the red flag. 

2
2/18/2025 4:46pm Edited Date/Time 2/18/2025 4:47pm
90% of 15 minutes, is 90% of 15 minutes. The red flag either flies before 90% or after 90%, it’s irrelevant where the leader is on the...

90% of 15 minutes, is 90% of 15 minutes. 

The red flag either flies before 90% or after 90%, it’s irrelevant where the leader is on the track, if the red flag flies after the 90% of the 15 minutes, it’s a result. (Or should be) 

And yes, different races are different durations. 90% can be calculated on any of them. 

You’re struggling with this aren’t you.. 

 

the old rule was 90% of the race distance ,  not 90% of the time (which is plus one lap for the race distance) 

what is 90% of the total of 15 plus 1 lap?  

answer,  it changes every week, and every race, 

that's why the new rule is more clear cut,  the 90% rule was easier when the laps were set, and needed updating after the races went to timed endings, 

ill add, if Max had been 7 sec short of the old 90% rule, i'd say most his fans  that are pissed would still be pissed about that too,

 

1
mxrose3
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2/18/2025 5:48pm Edited Date/Time 2/18/2025 5:48pm
cwel11 wrote:
I’m not sure why this keeps being brought up. I don’t think most racers and fans are upset we have rules.  The argument from me and...

I’m not sure why this keeps being brought up. I don’t think most racers and fans are upset we have rules.  The argument from me and I think most people is how dumb the rule is written and how long it took them to red flag the race. Tin foil hat on, I personally think they have the rule written like it is for the exact reason we saw Saturday night. It created drama and talk in what would’ve just been a ho hum 250 race. This “green, white, checkered” garbage is being adopted straight from nascar. 

exactly.   I feel like they are trying to attract and appeal the typlical nascar fan instead of the die hard mx fans.

Moto Nomad
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2/19/2025 12:38am
I’m pretty sure there must be a bottom line that reads similar to “at the discretion of the race director”In which case, the race director really...

I’m pretty sure there must be a bottom line that reads similar to “at the discretion of the race director”

In which case, the race director really should have looked at the 7 seconds to go and called it a result. 

Can anyone clarify what was gained by canning the old 90% rule?

FastEddy wrote:
Yep and I believe Pelletier  said  that they didn't look at the clock, Would be interesting if the radio traffic from the AMA ect.. at these races...

Yep and I believe Pelletier  said  that they didn't look at the clock, 

Would be interesting if the radio traffic from the AMA ect.. at these races was made public. I'd assume that once they seen the clock, it was an OH SHIT moment. 

Are you saying the AMA didn't know how much time was left in the race when they called the red flag?

Anyhow, Anstie looked totally rattled after the red flag. He looked slower to me and was giving up the inside all over the place. He still could have won that race. 

1
2/19/2025 1:48am
mxrose3 wrote:

exactly.   I feel like they are trying to attract and appeal the typlical nascar fan instead of the die hard mx fans.

Most of the audience is made of people that don’t ride, so I would assume this is correct. 

wardy
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2/19/2025 6:34am

AMA followed the rules in place, which are looked at and discussed, by the promoter and many of the teams.  The rule was changed more then likely because of the influence by all involved.

the tune in here would be much different if a medic got seriously hurt being hit by a rider while attending to another rider. 

7 seconds didn't matter, so knowing the amount of time left didn't as well.

the ONLY thing that should be looked at if the rule is to stand, they have lap times, and time between positions. the leader should leave that white chalk line with the same amount of time as he had  when the red flag was thrown. 

a simple print out and set them off with the finish of the race being exactly how it was run before the flag.  

but then i think a yellow flag should matter so there is that.  lol

GrapeApe
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2/19/2025 7:08am

No matter where you draw the cutoff line - be it a percentage, or set time, or set laps - you cannot eliminate the possibility that the race will be red flagged 7 seconds short of the cutoff and re-started. It's just one of those freak things that happens sometimes despite best intentions.

The staggered start isn't perfect but it's better than another gate drop.

I'm surprised some people want to give an AMA official a printout and a stopwatch and trust him to get the time gaps correct. Can you imagine the over analysis and conspiracies as everyone argues that their favorite rider was held .0035 seconds too long by the crooked AMA? lol 

1
2/19/2025 7:13am
3strokemx wrote:

If Max was the fastest guy, why didn't he win the race?  He started in the front, so traffic wasn't an issue.

I hope this is sarcasm.

 

1
GangGreen
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2/19/2025 7:25am
I’m pretty sure there must be a bottom line that reads similar to “at the discretion of the race director”In which case, the race director really...

I’m pretty sure there must be a bottom line that reads similar to “at the discretion of the race director”

In which case, the race director really should have looked at the 7 seconds to go and called it a result. 

Can anyone clarify what was gained by canning the old 90% rule?

ThisUsernameIsUnavailable had asked," Can anyone clarify what was gained by canning the old 90% rule?
As stated by the AMA Race Director, it leaves a gray area.  90% of WHAT?  90% of 15 minutes, 90% of 15 minutes Plus 2 Laps, Who's two lap time-frame.  I'm just glad they followed the rule book !!!

1
3strokemx
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2/19/2025 7:40am Edited Date/Time 2/19/2025 7:40am
3strokemx wrote:

If Max was the fastest guy, why didn't he win the race?  He started in the front, so traffic wasn't an issue.

I hope this is sarcasm.

 

It's a serious question, can you answer it?  on my TV Max got passed for the lead.

2
2/21/2025 2:44pm
I still don't understand the need for the red flag.  Couldn't stop the bleeding?  Bones sticking through the skin?  Unconscious?  They do have radio communication with...

I still don't understand the need for the red flag.  Couldn't stop the bleeding?  Bones sticking through the skin?  Unconscious?  They do have radio communication with each other.  Just throw the checkered flag and be done with it.

1.1.5 PRINCIPLE RULE OF INTERPRETATION AND APPLICATION a. The AMA Rules are intended to ensure that AMA-sanctioned Events are conducted in a manner that is as fair as possible for all Competitors, consistent with prompt finality in competition results. b. On occasion, circumstances will be presented that are either unforeseen or are otherwise extraordinary, in which strict application of the AMA Rules may not achieve this goal. In such rare circumstances, the Race Officials, as a practical matter, may make a determination regarding the conduct of an Event, the eligibility of a Competitor, or similar matters that are not contemplated by or are inconsistent with the AMA Rules, in order to achieve this goal. 1.1.6 INTERPRETATION AND APPLICATION a. AMA’s intent of a specific rule will override a competitor’s interpretation of a rule. If there is a disagreement or dispute regarding the meaning or application of the AMA Rules, the interpretation and application by AMA shall prevail. If any rule is unclear to an entrant or competitor, the competitor is advised to get written approval prior to any modifications. Any prior verbal approval from AMA staff or officials without a written statement regarding the interpretation of a rule or procedure will be deemed invalid. b. Notwithstanding the foregoing or any other provision in the Rule Book, Race Officials at an Event may review, adjust, modify, and/or supersede an interpretation or application of the AMA Rules when the Race Officials deem such action to be appropriate, such as instructions given by Race Direction at an Event’s Rider briefing. c. While every effort has been made to write these rules in a clear and unambiguous fashion, it is impossible to anticipate every circumstance. It will be Race Direction’s responsibility to make decisions regarding rules enforcement. d. The current electronic version of the Rule Book, including any Amendments by AMA Bulletin prior to the disputed incident, shall govern.

FastEddy wrote:
"I still don't understand the need for the red flag."It was for safe track access for the medics.  One medic got to him safely and...

"I still don't understand the need for the red flag."

It was for safe track access for the medics.  One medic got to him safely and was there for nearly 2 laps , I also believe by then he was coherent.  That medic radioed for more medics to assist (I believe to help him off because his knee was hurt also). They then threw the red flag. They didn't look at the clock before throwing it.

Frankly not a good explanation for the red flag. 

You are correct, that was not an explanation at all.  It was an excuse.  My post was to show the rule book states that the AMA can do whatever they want.  

Notwithstanding the foregoing or any other provision in the Rule Book, Race Officials at an Event may review, adjust, modify, and/or supersede an interpretation or application of the AMA Rules when the Race Officials deem such action to be appropriate

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