good or bad arizona ruling?

KAWboy14
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Edited Date/Time 1/26/2012 5:17pm
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KAWboy14
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7/28/2010 10:41am
man the home depot will be a ghost town:

"and made it illegal for undocumented workers to solicit employment in public places."
borg
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7/28/2010 12:01pm
The law presupposes that what we need to do is deport all illegal aliens which is just not going to happen. It went a little too far. I have no problem with checking the status of people who are already in jail and deporting them when their term is served but it wont do much good until the Fed's start doing their job of securing the border. All of this other shit is just running in place until the border is secured. Any legislation designed to legalize current illegals should be fought tooth and nail unless the borders are dealt with first.
DirtyFilter75
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7/28/2010 12:12pm
We can take them back legally then! This is simple stuff boys! You are trying to over complicate things due to your softness for Mexicans. I don't care if you are Canadian if you are here Illegally get the FUCK out!
borg
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7/28/2010 12:18pm
I'm not as concerned about them as I am the criminals who cant come here legally. They have to dash the border. I would also like to see some data on the 50% figure you cited. It may be true but it doesn't make sense that so many would pay thousands to get via coyote vs obtaining a visa, and or a work permit.

The Shop

Bob693
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7/28/2010 12:25pm
Which is why they should be deported when they are found.
72kiteboarder
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7/28/2010 12:26pm
What this really says is that Illeagal alians have more rights than the police in regard to immigration. Sad, Sad day for the United States.
RACERX69
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7/28/2010 12:45pm Edited Date/Time 7/28/2010 12:47pm
This has got to be one of the biggest forms of Jack Assery yet performed by Obama and his henchman. This is simply nothing but a ploy to seem compassionate to the Mexicans so as to garner vote's in November and in 2012. It just makes me sick.


I would be elated to pay more for my house, goods and services, etc... just to stop the invasion/erosion of our country by illegals...and thats doesn't only include Mexicans!!!!

Mexicans and people like oldfart simply will not be happy until the border is wide open!!!!

Btw, oldfart are you married to a Mexican?
Void Main
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7/28/2010 12:49pm
There is a substantial likelihood that officers will wrongfully arrest legal resident aliens

So he's basically saying cops are worthless pieces of shit? Answer me this batman, what's to stop these piece of shit officers from wrongfully arresting legal resident aliens without the new law?
flarider
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7/28/2010 1:19pm
What you have to do is step back and remove Mexicans and illegal aliens entirely and view Federal law over State law.

This issue, like the issue of illegal drugs, is a Federal issue and subject to Federal law.
If you allow states to just start writing their own local legislation in order to allow local law enforcement to take over for or supersede the Federal Government, you're asking for trouble and a big messy patchwork of laws.

I agree the Federal Government needs to do more, and has needed to do more for years (I refuse to pin this on any single President), but the States cannot just write law to supersede Federal Jurisdiction
bultokid
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7/28/2010 1:45pm
So that means that they are now here ILLEGALLY, thus making them NON law-abiding citizens of this country at this time correct ?
SteveS
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7/28/2010 2:06pm Edited Date/Time 7/28/2010 2:06pm
flarider wrote:
What you have to do is step back and remove Mexicans and illegal aliens entirely and view Federal law over State law. This issue, like the...
What you have to do is step back and remove Mexicans and illegal aliens entirely and view Federal law over State law.

This issue, like the issue of illegal drugs, is a Federal issue and subject to Federal law.
If you allow states to just start writing their own local legislation in order to allow local law enforcement to take over for or supersede the Federal Government, you're asking for trouble and a big messy patchwork of laws.

I agree the Federal Government needs to do more, and has needed to do more for years (I refuse to pin this on any single President), but the States cannot just write law to supersede Federal Jurisdiction
Funny that you bring illegal drugs up.



We have lots of state and local laws pertaining to illegal drugs, some of which run absolutely counter to federal law.
WhKnuckle
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7/28/2010 2:15pm Edited Date/Time 7/28/2010 2:17pm
I saw where the United Farm Workers made a big campaign about "come take our jobs", meaning, "Come on, unemployed Americans, take these jobs that are being done by illegal migrant workers now. No benefits, unsafe working conditions, $7/hour, 12 hours a day out in the sun bent over picking crops. We'd love to see a bunch of unemployed Americans come take these jobs."

But that argument only works if you don't take into account that the wage and working conditions are set BY illegal aliens - if farm owners paid a decent wage and offered safe working conditions, lots of people would do that work. Americans aren't lazy, they're just not willing to kill themselves at a job that won't make them a living.

I'd love to know how much of the final cost of a head of lettuce is due to the cost of having it picked - I'll bet it's no more than 2 or 3 cents. That means the farm owner could pay twice as much and only raise the cost a few cents - and then he'd have a job that Americans WILL do. $14/hour? Lots of people will work for that. And when you go to the store and buy that lettuce, you'd never know the difference cost-wise.

All this baloney about Americans being unwilling to work so we have to have illegal aliens do it is predicated on the same argument - that Americans won't do virtual slave labor. But the savings to the consumer is miniscule, and when you factor in the cost of illegal alien health care and the fact that they pay no Social Security, along with the fact that Americans who could do those jobs are receiving unemployment - it becomes obvious that we could literally eliminate our employment problem, reduce federal and state expenditures, increase Social Security revenues, and get America back on track by simply requiring all employers to follow the existing employment laws - you have to pay minimum wage at least, you have to provide a safe working environment and you have to make sure all employees are legal workers and pay Social Security from their wages. And when you go down to the grocery store, the cost difference in that lettuce would be so insignificant you'd never notice it.

Raising wages to a level that provides a living for a worker isn't costly to America - it's the reduction of wages to such a low figure that only illegal aliens will do it that's costly to America.
FlaNard
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7/28/2010 2:30pm
It was just a battle won by the wrong side in a long, long war to come.
7/28/2010 2:31pm
Doesn't picking fruits and veggies only account for 2 percent of the alien population??
flarider
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7/28/2010 2:34pm
SteveS wrote:
Funny that you bring illegal drugs up. We have lots of state and local laws pertaining to illegal drugs, some of which run absolutely counter to...
Funny that you bring illegal drugs up.



We have lots of state and local laws pertaining to illegal drugs, some of which run absolutely counter to federal law.
Fine, maybe drugs was a poor example, but the point still stands
You can't have state and local governments making laws to supersede or override Federal laws

7/28/2010 2:35pm Edited Date/Time 7/28/2010 2:39pm
flarider wrote:
Fine, maybe drugs was a poor example, but the point still stands You can't have state and local governments making laws to supersede or override Federal...
Fine, maybe drugs was a poor example, but the point still stands
You can't have state and local governments making laws to supersede or override Federal laws

City of Oakland is starting to grow pot farms.

OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) - Oakland has become the first city in the country to authorize large-scale industrial pot cultivation.

The Oakland City Council voted Tuesday morning in favor of a plan to license four production plants where marijuana would be grown, packaged and processed for medical use. Two members of the council abstained from the vote.

Under the plan, the plants would not be limited in size, but they would be heavily taxed and regulated.

Supporters of the measure say it would create jobs and bring in millions of dollars to the city. Opponents argue it will put small medical marijuana growers out of business.

The measure will require bidders to meet certain labor, environmental and product safety standards.
WhKnuckle
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7/28/2010 2:42pm
Doesn't picking fruits and veggies only account for 2 percent of the alien population??
The number I heard was 500,000 jobs picking crops, but then add in all the carpenters, painters, landscapers, construction laborers...All of those jobs have had the wages depressed by illegal aliens, to the point where Americans who pay their Social Security and pay for insurance and send their kids to college have to find something else. My point is, enforce the labor laws and Americans WILL do that work. Send employers to jail for hiring illegal immigrants and you solve both the immigration problem AND the unemployment problem. Yeah, the costs of a few things will increase a little, but it's cheaper in the long run for everyone compared to paying health care bills, Social Security that's not collected, and unemployment benefits that are being paid out now.
WhKnuckle
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7/28/2010 2:54pm
As far as the legalities, any state that passes a law that's going to necessarily involve racial prejudice is going to be challenged by the federal government. Which, of course, is exactly what these POS Arizona politicians wanted. They don't give the first damn about immigration, they give a damn about being reelected, and this is the perfect election platform - "Put me back in office and I'll keep fighting the good fight against those terrible feds..." Never mind that they don't even enforce existing laws against employment of illegal aliens that would have solved the problem 20 years ago...

If these Arizona politicians cared one bit about immigration problems, they'd have been investigating employers who hire illegal immigrants and calling the INS every day until there were no illegal aliens working anywhere in Arizona.
7/28/2010 3:00pm
So how does McDonalds or any other major corporation hire illegal aliens?

How do you go after a company that hires illegals??

At some point you have to do a little racial profiling no?
Scotty
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7/28/2010 3:06pm
Sad day for AZ
WhKnuckle
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7/28/2010 3:06pm
So how does McDonalds or any other major corporation hire illegal aliens? How do you go after a company that hires illegals?? At some point you...
So how does McDonalds or any other major corporation hire illegal aliens?

How do you go after a company that hires illegals??

At some point you have to do a little racial profiling no?
I doubt McDonalds hires illegal aliens unless they're working for a contractor.

How do you go after a company that hires them? By seeing a contractor picking up a truckload, recording his company name and license plate, calling INS and giving them the information and arresting the contractor. You're not racially profiling anyone, the guy you're putting in jail is the contractor, he could be any race.

You won't have to put him in the clink too many times before he starts obeying the labor laws.
SteveS
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7/28/2010 3:17pm
SteveS wrote:
Funny that you bring illegal drugs up. We have lots of state and local laws pertaining to illegal drugs, some of which run absolutely counter to...
Funny that you bring illegal drugs up.



We have lots of state and local laws pertaining to illegal drugs, some of which run absolutely counter to federal law.
flarider wrote:
Fine, maybe drugs was a poor example, but the point still stands You can't have state and local governments making laws to supersede or override Federal...
Fine, maybe drugs was a poor example, but the point still stands
You can't have state and local governments making laws to supersede or override Federal laws

And yet the Feds don't bring lawsuits against the states which flout federal drug laws. Nor against those who have their own drug laws in addition to the federal ones.
7/28/2010 3:20pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
I doubt McDonalds hires illegal aliens unless they're working for a contractor. How do you go after a company that hires them? By seeing a contractor...
I doubt McDonalds hires illegal aliens unless they're working for a contractor.

How do you go after a company that hires them? By seeing a contractor picking up a truckload, recording his company name and license plate, calling INS and giving them the information and arresting the contractor. You're not racially profiling anyone, the guy you're putting in jail is the contractor, he could be any race.

You won't have to put him in the clink too many times before he starts obeying the labor laws.
Picking "them"up is definitely racial profiling.
WhKnuckle
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7/28/2010 3:21pm
SteveS wrote:
Funny that you bring illegal drugs up. We have lots of state and local laws pertaining to illegal drugs, some of which run absolutely counter to...
Funny that you bring illegal drugs up.



We have lots of state and local laws pertaining to illegal drugs, some of which run absolutely counter to federal law.
flarider wrote:
Fine, maybe drugs was a poor example, but the point still stands You can't have state and local governments making laws to supersede or override Federal...
Fine, maybe drugs was a poor example, but the point still stands
You can't have state and local governments making laws to supersede or override Federal laws

SteveS wrote:
And yet the Feds don't bring lawsuits against the states which flout federal drug laws. Nor against those who have their own drug laws in addition...
And yet the Feds don't bring lawsuits against the states which flout federal drug laws. Nor against those who have their own drug laws in addition to the federal ones.
Do you flout drug laws by dividing the population racially, and impose your laws only on the Mexicans or blacks or Jews or Italians? Do you look up people's names in the phone book and and go search the homes of everyone who has two names that both end in vowels because you know all Italians are in the Mafia?
WhKnuckle
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7/28/2010 3:25pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
I doubt McDonalds hires illegal aliens unless they're working for a contractor. How do you go after a company that hires them? By seeing a contractor...
I doubt McDonalds hires illegal aliens unless they're working for a contractor.

How do you go after a company that hires them? By seeing a contractor picking up a truckload, recording his company name and license plate, calling INS and giving them the information and arresting the contractor. You're not racially profiling anyone, the guy you're putting in jail is the contractor, he could be any race.

You won't have to put him in the clink too many times before he starts obeying the labor laws.
Picking "them"up is definitely racial profiling.
You're not arresting the people who are being picked up. You're arresting the guy who picked them up. In fact, a sharp police department would use plain clothes officers as plants, and when that dumbass contractor makes a deal for $4/hour cash, you arrest him right there. Just like they use policewomen in hooker sting operations.

You won't have to arrest very many people before EVERYONE knows the game is over and they'd never even consider hiring someone without proper documentation.
WhKnuckle
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7/28/2010 3:29pm
KAWboy14 wrote:
So you are saying the contractor should be the one doing the racial profiling, asking for their citizenship??
I'm saying he should require documentation from ANY employee. That's the exact opposite of racial profiling. Every prospective employee has to be a citizen or legal worker.

Is this really this hard to understand?
jonjon714
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7/28/2010 3:44pm
Must have folks at the border with clickers...


borg
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7/28/2010 4:34pm
I will accept that the data is true but it doesn't really change what needs to be done.
Frogman
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7/28/2010 5:07pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
I doubt McDonalds hires illegal aliens unless they're working for a contractor. How do you go after a company that hires them? By seeing a contractor...
I doubt McDonalds hires illegal aliens unless they're working for a contractor.

How do you go after a company that hires them? By seeing a contractor picking up a truckload, recording his company name and license plate, calling INS and giving them the information and arresting the contractor. You're not racially profiling anyone, the guy you're putting in jail is the contractor, he could be any race.

You won't have to put him in the clink too many times before he starts obeying the labor laws.
This is going to solve illegal immigration??

What a joke.

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