Posts
37304
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
Edited Date/Time
1/17/2018 7:30pm
In the big picture: I like MXA's position on most things...
They approach their bike tests with a lot of common-sense and they try their best to look at things from a weekend-warrior/MX Racer-type perspective.
And, they (And Jimmy Lewis @ Dirt Rider) have fought the good fight on behalf of 2 strokes (Wirtness their latest test on the YZ125).
But, then they went and did their write up on VP's U4.4:
Not -ONE- reference to "Throttle Response"...as in out on the track.
Not -ONE- reference to the Engine's operating temps (especially after 30 minutes of pure abuse).
Not -ONE- test of twistin' the throttle and seein' how the bike get's outta turns, over jumps or off the gate on Race Fuel v. Pump-Gas...WTF?
No re-mapping or re-jetting for a different fuel? (Don't laugh...that's how it's done at your favorite Race Team/Engine Builder...P.C. for Example?)
The point: We tested our Yoshimura built motors on various fuels (EFI-No crazy compression: Our 450 is 13.5:1). We've run a few different race fuels and pump-gas.
Pump gas works; but, It doesn't let the motor "do it's thing" like race fuel does. Period. With pump gas the motor never get's as much "snap" as with U4.4 and that seems to matter on techincal jumps and features where the rider needs the motor to respond quickly (Like jumps right at the exit of a turn). This includes mapping for pump gas...still....it's jus' not the same. Riders say it (pump) feels "flat" compared to other fuels & this is "blind" testing between the various fuels.
With U4.4 throttle response is instantaneous and the bike accelerates harder and quicker (Where's the comment on that application in their article?).
Also, our bike runs cooler and...beieve it or not...valve wear & maintenance seems improved. Engine internals are cleaner, too, when we disassemble our race engines.
Btw, we run a map that Yosh built that WILL run on pump; also, we have run maps spec'd for pump fuel.
We've tried other Race fules, too. Just one catch: The Price...which they also harped on...in a magazine that'll praise a $1000 pipe. I don't know how many folks have paid $15/Gallon for U4.4...but...I asked a few locals and they're payin' around $65-70 a can (In the blue steel VP can). I know they (VP) were pumpin' it into peoples plastic cans for $12/gallon at Mammoth. U4.4 is the CHEAPEST Race Fuel of it's kind that we've run. We want the reponse, consistency, clean burn and "snap" of a good fuel. We don't need a a lot more power...who does on a modern 450?
That said: There are ways to TEST things...and ways to NOT.
Race gas, especially in this case, is about improving the performance of your Engine. A Dyno tells the tale about Horsepower...and...Torque, too...but...as a statistic. What it doesn't tell is "how" the power is delivered and the differnece in throttle response out on the track.
This is the very same argument Doug Dubach makes about pipes: "Dyno's jus' give you numbers."
Mitch Payton has said that Race Fuel is the cheapest power improver you can buy.
As to this argument when it comes to 2 strokes...again...
Go ask Mitch. He'll porbably jus' say,"C12".
I'm jus' sayin'...
They approach their bike tests with a lot of common-sense and they try their best to look at things from a weekend-warrior/MX Racer-type perspective.
And, they (And Jimmy Lewis @ Dirt Rider) have fought the good fight on behalf of 2 strokes (Wirtness their latest test on the YZ125).
But, then they went and did their write up on VP's U4.4:
Not -ONE- reference to "Throttle Response"...as in out on the track.
Not -ONE- reference to the Engine's operating temps (especially after 30 minutes of pure abuse).
Not -ONE- test of twistin' the throttle and seein' how the bike get's outta turns, over jumps or off the gate on Race Fuel v. Pump-Gas...WTF?
No re-mapping or re-jetting for a different fuel? (Don't laugh...that's how it's done at your favorite Race Team/Engine Builder...P.C. for Example?)
The point: We tested our Yoshimura built motors on various fuels (EFI-No crazy compression: Our 450 is 13.5:1). We've run a few different race fuels and pump-gas.
Pump gas works; but, It doesn't let the motor "do it's thing" like race fuel does. Period. With pump gas the motor never get's as much "snap" as with U4.4 and that seems to matter on techincal jumps and features where the rider needs the motor to respond quickly (Like jumps right at the exit of a turn). This includes mapping for pump gas...still....it's jus' not the same. Riders say it (pump) feels "flat" compared to other fuels & this is "blind" testing between the various fuels.
With U4.4 throttle response is instantaneous and the bike accelerates harder and quicker (Where's the comment on that application in their article?).
Also, our bike runs cooler and...beieve it or not...valve wear & maintenance seems improved. Engine internals are cleaner, too, when we disassemble our race engines.
Btw, we run a map that Yosh built that WILL run on pump; also, we have run maps spec'd for pump fuel.
We've tried other Race fules, too. Just one catch: The Price...which they also harped on...in a magazine that'll praise a $1000 pipe. I don't know how many folks have paid $15/Gallon for U4.4...but...I asked a few locals and they're payin' around $65-70 a can (In the blue steel VP can). I know they (VP) were pumpin' it into peoples plastic cans for $12/gallon at Mammoth. U4.4 is the CHEAPEST Race Fuel of it's kind that we've run. We want the reponse, consistency, clean burn and "snap" of a good fuel. We don't need a a lot more power...who does on a modern 450?
That said: There are ways to TEST things...and ways to NOT.
Race gas, especially in this case, is about improving the performance of your Engine. A Dyno tells the tale about Horsepower...and...Torque, too...but...as a statistic. What it doesn't tell is "how" the power is delivered and the differnece in throttle response out on the track.
This is the very same argument Doug Dubach makes about pipes: "Dyno's jus' give you numbers."
Mitch Payton has said that Race Fuel is the cheapest power improver you can buy.
As to this argument when it comes to 2 strokes...again...
Go ask Mitch. He'll porbably jus' say,"C12".
I'm jus' sayin'...
The Shop
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Granted I did a sloppy job of removing it from the bike, though the buildup in the smallest of places has just been a huge pain in the arse.
He KNOWS the difference and their results show it.
Fool!
Don't ruin it for me!
I was waitin' to get to play that "card".
Geeeeze!
Whether it's chiks, rock-n-roll or race gas...your always ruinin' it for me!
I'm takin' my ball & leavin'!
(Did that sond like Cartman?)
We used to get almost 2HP from the stuff... now it's tenths.
Team Green you are absolutely correct... it's not about the pure HP anymore with this fuel... but the "snap". But it used to be about the HP.
But you can acheive that same "snap" with motor mods that run on pump gas. It's a catch 22. If you're going through 5 gallons a week... spend the money on motor mods first.
But without reading the article, which I haven't, it doesn't seem to me that they are off base by stating what they have seen.
Teamgreen is your first name Paul?
I could run it and say yep it made the bike feel better but I would still go slow, I'd benefit from fresh tires , a salad and 45 minute work out (every day) more.
DV is only WFO 2% of the time, so the average Joe surely isnt WFO more than that.
Pit Row
Before I am attacked about highjacking a post or something else... YES I do work in the fuel industry and have for many years. I am not here to point out the brand I work for just to point out a few things and HOPE to clear up a few myths about fuels.
JP
Most people are using 20 buck a gallon fuel and some kid on a 65 blows past them. Shoulda bought the 30 dollar juice.
MX is 80% mind-10% gas fumes-10% bike anyways.
Hows this sound? You're in socal and it sounds to me like yo think i'm full of $h!t about the 90% of people?? Lets go testing and YOU can be the person who says a simple $15 a gal fuel can be worth it or not!
JP
FAIL
On the "you want to talk about fuel" statement... lets just go with the "i know a few things about fuel" and call it good
JP
Ya see I disagree..I'd say 1000 out of 1000 will benefit from race fuel..Why?.. because feeling good or I'll say feeling better about your bike's performance especially engine performance feeling like your bike is improved is just that.. a feeling!! and isn't that a benefit I know I feel like the small noticeable improvement in race gas benefits me simply because that's what I was looking for doesn't matter about my lap times if it makes me faster or slower I feel like I'm doing something good for my bike and the seat of my pants tells me I am that's perhaps the biggest benefits there is..just my .02¢
You dug up a nearly 15 year-old thread to put in your .02?
Post a reply to: MXA and VP Race Fuel U4.4 "test"...