KTM to file for Bankruptcy/ Self Restructuring on Friday

Team403
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12/30/2024 5:45am

Screwed the creditors and Ready To Race.. 

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Beagle
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12/30/2024 5:48am
AyJBray166 wrote:

Any new updates on this deal? 

Second hearing at the end of January to present a detailed restructuring plan to creditors (and investors), third and last hearing at the end of February to see if creditors agree to the the restructuring or if they go bankrupt.

To me it looks pretty positive for the restructuring with Bajaj and others willing to save PMG from their own undoing. Whatever measures will need to be taken: axing some brands, whatever "focusing on core markets" means for this plan, production plans (where each models would be made) and consequences on racing activities should be clearer after the second hearing.

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MxAddic
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12/30/2024 6:49am
Beagle wrote:
Second hearing at the end of January to present a detailed restructuring plan to creditors (and investors), third and last hearing at the end of February...

Second hearing at the end of January to present a detailed restructuring plan to creditors (and investors), third and last hearing at the end of February to see if creditors agree to the the restructuring or if they go bankrupt.

To me it looks pretty positive for the restructuring with Bajaj and others willing to save PMG from their own undoing. Whatever measures will need to be taken: axing some brands, whatever "focusing on core markets" means for this plan, production plans (where each models would be made) and consequences on racing activities should be clearer after the second hearing.

Yes, a promise to get Rodded by Pierer for only 70% is very positive indeed.

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10
1/1/2025 7:11am

South African rider Brad Binder’s MotoGP future with KTM looks uncertain with his team reportedly set to quit the sport after 2025 to prevent bankruptcy.

The debt-ridden Austrian motorcycle brand entered self-administration on November 29 and Austrian media has reported that KTM may quit the top tier of motorcycle racing in 2026 as part of efforts to restructure its business.

The company’s sales have fallen 27% compared to the first half of 2023 and it has laid off nearly 600 workers this year. The self-administration allows for 90 days for KTM’s holding company Pierer Mobility — which also owns motorcycle brands Gas Gas, Husqvarna and MV Agusta — to secure financing to continue operations before the company falls into insolvency.

According to Crash.net, the first creditors’ hearing took place in December and a report issued by the Alpine Creditors Association (AKV) noted that reorganisation measures include the “planned” exit by KTM from MotoGP. KTM responded by saying it was committed to racing in MotoGP in 2025 but did not comment on its racing plans beyond that.

Austrian outlet Der Standard reported that KTM’s MotoGP exit will come in 2026, which is the final year of its deal with commercial rights holder Dorna Sports.

According to Crash.net, the report from the creditors’ hearing revealed that a number of parties have expressed interest in investing a combined €700m into the struggling company, including seven-time Formula One champion Lewis Hamilton. Hamilton, who is moving from Mercedes to Ferrari for the 2025 Formula One season, had earlier been linked with a buy-in of the Gresini MotoGP team.

Binder has a contract with KTM to the end of 2026 while new signings Pedro Acosta, Enea Bastianini and Maverick Vinales are all on multiyear deals. KTM also supplies 16 motorcycles to the entry-level Moto3 series.

Binder won the 2016 Moto3 title to become the third motorcycle grand prix world champion from South Africa, after Jon Ekerold and Kork Ballington. The Potchefstroom-born rider has been with the MotoGP factory team since 2020 after three seasons in the intermediate Moto2 category with KTM.

In his third MotoGP race he won the 2020 Czech Republic grand prix to bring the Austrian marque its first victory in the premier class, and the following year he won the team’s home race in Austria.

Binder has failed to win a race since then against the dominant Ducatis, but has scored nine podiums and finished as the highest-placed non-Ducati MotoGP rider in the last two seasons.

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1

The Shop

1/1/2025 10:32am

reading the JWR contract posted is it possible a portion of the riders salary is in Pierer stock ?

indy rider
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1/1/2025 6:45pm
Beagle wrote:
Second hearing at the end of January to present a detailed restructuring plan to creditors (and investors), third and last hearing at the end of February...

Second hearing at the end of January to present a detailed restructuring plan to creditors (and investors), third and last hearing at the end of February to see if creditors agree to the the restructuring or if they go bankrupt.

To me it looks pretty positive for the restructuring with Bajaj and others willing to save PMG from their own undoing. Whatever measures will need to be taken: axing some brands, whatever "focusing on core markets" means for this plan, production plans (where each models would be made) and consequences on racing activities should be clearer after the second hearing.

MxAddic wrote:

Yes, a promise to get Rodded by Pierer for only 70% is very positive indeed.

Their suppliers have to be pissed. KTM sending their overly expensive riders out and to play with dirt bikes on TV at the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars while they get offered 30% max on what's owed them. Offer my company 30% of what you owe and I'll never sell you another part without cash up front...if at all. And you better watch your back.

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Beagle
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1/2/2025 12:55am Edited Date/Time 1/2/2025 6:27am
indy rider wrote:
Their suppliers have to be pissed. KTM sending their overly expensive riders out and to play with dirt bikes on TV at the tune of hundreds...

Their suppliers have to be pissed. KTM sending their overly expensive riders out and to play with dirt bikes on TV at the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars while they get offered 30% max on what's owed them. Offer my company 30% of what you owe and I'll never sell you another part without cash up front...if at all. And you better watch your back.

From what I understand, here are the creditors options:

for the restructuring plan to go ahead, creditors representing 2/3 of the debt need to accept it (that's more or less the debt owned by banks and other big investors). Under the plan, creditors who agree to the plan get 30% of their money in 2 years (or whatever higher rate will be negotiated at that point). The other creditors, who did not agree (like small suppliers for instance), are still due 100% of their money.

If the restructuring is not accepted, or if it fails later, company goes into bankruptcy, in which case creditors can expect to see 14% of their money back (that's the number quoted at the December hearing in court).

Anyway I think many suppliers would likely be in big trouble if KTM goes bankrupt, it has to be a major customer for some of them, especially the smaller ones, what happens when orders for parts for 300 000 motorcycles a year (or even a fraction of them) suddenly disappear?

So it's mainly in the hands of the large creditors, they'll go along if they assess that's in their best interest.

TLDR the best case scenario for smaller suppliers is not losing 70% of their money, and it's probably not KTM going bankrupt either.

Edit: I thought they needed 2/3 creditors onboard with the plan but the law merely says over 50% "the majority of creditors must agree to the restructuring plan. This creditor majority must hold more than half of all debts."

https://www.usp.gv.at/en/veraenderung-aufloesung/insolvenz/weitere-info…

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MxAddic
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1/2/2025 2:42am
Beagle wrote:
From what I understand, here are the creditors options:for the restructuring plan to go ahead, creditors representing 2/3 of the debt need to accept it (that's...

From what I understand, here are the creditors options:

for the restructuring plan to go ahead, creditors representing 2/3 of the debt need to accept it (that's more or less the debt owned by banks and other big investors). Under the plan, creditors who agree to the plan get 30% of their money in 2 years (or whatever higher rate will be negotiated at that point). The other creditors, who did not agree (like small suppliers for instance), are still due 100% of their money.

If the restructuring is not accepted, or if it fails later, company goes into bankruptcy, in which case creditors can expect to see 14% of their money back (that's the number quoted at the December hearing in court).

Anyway I think many suppliers would likely be in big trouble if KTM goes bankrupt, it has to be a major customer for some of them, especially the smaller ones, what happens when orders for parts for 300 000 motorcycles a year (or even a fraction of them) suddenly disappear?

So it's mainly in the hands of the large creditors, they'll go along if they assess that's in their best interest.

TLDR the best case scenario for smaller suppliers is not losing 70% of their money, and it's probably not KTM going bankrupt either.

Edit: I thought they needed 2/3 creditors onboard with the plan but the law merely says over 50% "the majority of creditors must agree to the restructuring plan. This creditor majority must hold more than half of all debts."

https://www.usp.gv.at/en/veraenderung-aufloesung/insolvenz/weitere-info…

The bankers get 100% period. They will not be voting to accept 30%.

1
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GrapeApe
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1/2/2025 7:01am Edited Date/Time 1/2/2025 7:02am
Beagle wrote:
From what I understand, here are the creditors options:for the restructuring plan to go ahead, creditors representing 2/3 of the debt need to accept it (that's...

From what I understand, here are the creditors options:

for the restructuring plan to go ahead, creditors representing 2/3 of the debt need to accept it (that's more or less the debt owned by banks and other big investors). Under the plan, creditors who agree to the plan get 30% of their money in 2 years (or whatever higher rate will be negotiated at that point). The other creditors, who did not agree (like small suppliers for instance), are still due 100% of their money.

If the restructuring is not accepted, or if it fails later, company goes into bankruptcy, in which case creditors can expect to see 14% of their money back (that's the number quoted at the December hearing in court).

Anyway I think many suppliers would likely be in big trouble if KTM goes bankrupt, it has to be a major customer for some of them, especially the smaller ones, what happens when orders for parts for 300 000 motorcycles a year (or even a fraction of them) suddenly disappear?

So it's mainly in the hands of the large creditors, they'll go along if they assess that's in their best interest.

TLDR the best case scenario for smaller suppliers is not losing 70% of their money, and it's probably not KTM going bankrupt either.

Edit: I thought they needed 2/3 creditors onboard with the plan but the law merely says over 50% "the majority of creditors must agree to the restructuring plan. This creditor majority must hold more than half of all debts."

https://www.usp.gv.at/en/veraenderung-aufloesung/insolvenz/weitere-info…

MxAddic wrote:

The bankers get 100% period. They will not be voting to accept 30%.

The only way the financial institutions get 100% is if someone takes over ownership and agrees to pay them 100% as part of a negotiated takeover, which isn't happening. If they don't vote for 30% the company will be liquidated and they will likely get less than 30%.

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MxAddic
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1/2/2025 7:15am
GrapeApe wrote:
The only way the financial institutions get 100% is if someone takes over ownership and agrees to pay them 100% as part of a negotiated takeover...

The only way the financial institutions get 100% is if someone takes over ownership and agrees to pay them 100% as part of a negotiated takeover, which isn't happening. If they don't vote for 30% the company will be liquidated and they will likely get less than 30%.

The banks will get 100% before any others get a cent according to this member. Sorry if he is not the all-knowing purple one.

 

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GrapeApe
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1/2/2025 7:29am Edited Date/Time 1/2/2025 7:49am
GrapeApe wrote:
The only way the financial institutions get 100% is if someone takes over ownership and agrees to pay them 100% as part of a negotiated takeover...

The only way the financial institutions get 100% is if someone takes over ownership and agrees to pay them 100% as part of a negotiated takeover, which isn't happening. If they don't vote for 30% the company will be liquidated and they will likely get less than 30%.

MxAddic wrote:

The banks will get 100% before any others get a cent according to this member. Sorry if he is not the all-knowing purple one.

 

I'm smart enough to know I'm not all-knowing. You should listen to what what he says starting at 8:30 in the video every morning before you start your daily onslaught of misinformed Vital posting.

2
indy rider
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1/2/2025 8:11am
GrapeApe wrote:
The only way the financial institutions get 100% is if someone takes over ownership and agrees to pay them 100% as part of a negotiated takeover...

The only way the financial institutions get 100% is if someone takes over ownership and agrees to pay them 100% as part of a negotiated takeover, which isn't happening. If they don't vote for 30% the company will be liquidated and they will likely get less than 30%.

MxAddic wrote:

The banks will get 100% before any others get a cent according to this member. Sorry if he is not the all-knowing purple one.

 

GrapeApe wrote:
I'm smart enough to know I'm not all-knowing. You should listen to what what he says starting at 8:30 in the video every morning before you...

I'm smart enough to know I'm not all-knowing. You should listen to what what he says starting at 8:30 in the video every morning before you start your daily onslaught of misinformed Vital posting.

IMO 58:00 minutes in is where the best insight to-date starts

.    

MxAddic
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indy rider wrote:

IMO 58:00 minutes in is where the best insight to-date starts

.    

And the vitards are writing it of after 5 min. because of his disclaimer.

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Snapper
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1/2/2025 8:28am
GrapeApe wrote:
I'm smart enough to know I'm not all-knowing. You should listen to what what he says starting at 8:30 in the video every morning before you...

I'm smart enough to know I'm not all-knowing. You should listen to what what he says starting at 8:30 in the video every morning before you start your daily onslaught of misinformed Vital posting.

'Some of the facts in this episode may not be exact. Maybe they could simply be wrong'. I can't beleive he actually said that.

1
Team403
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1/2/2025 8:36am Edited Date/Time 1/2/2025 8:37am
GrapeApe wrote:
I'm smart enough to know I'm not all-knowing. You should listen to what what he says starting at 8:30 in the video every morning before you...

I'm smart enough to know I'm not all-knowing. You should listen to what what he says starting at 8:30 in the video every morning before you start your daily onslaught of misinformed Vital posting.

Snapper wrote:

'Some of the facts in this episode may not be exact. Maybe they could simply be wrong'. I can't beleive he actually said that.

Most professionals always give themselves a way out.

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Snapper
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1/2/2025 8:50am
GrapeApe wrote:
I'm smart enough to know I'm not all-knowing. You should listen to what what he says starting at 8:30 in the video every morning before you...

I'm smart enough to know I'm not all-knowing. You should listen to what what he says starting at 8:30 in the video every morning before you start your daily onslaught of misinformed Vital posting.

Snapper wrote:

'Some of the facts in this episode may not be exact. Maybe they could simply be wrong'. I can't beleive he actually said that.

Team403 wrote:

Most professionals always give themselves a way out.

True. He must be professional given his colossal number of subscribers too.

GrapeApe
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1/2/2025 8:52am
indy rider wrote:

IMO 58:00 minutes in is where the best insight to-date starts

.    

MxAddic wrote:

And the vitards are writing it of after 5 min. because of his disclaimer.

Who is writing it off?

MxAddic
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1/2/2025 9:01am
GrapeApe wrote:

Who is writing it off?

MXBen711

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12/24/2024 3:10am 
 

This man’s well informed video that in the first 9 minutes states a lot the reporting is incorrect and that the laws in Austria prevent real transparency so his video could be incorrect. I don’t disagree with that at all, I didn’t want past that

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LungButter
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1/2/2025 9:09am
MxAddic wrote:

And the vitards are writing it of after 5 min. because of his disclaimer.

You're just as much a Vitard as anyone else.

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MPJC
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1/2/2025 9:11am
GrapeApe wrote:
I'm smart enough to know I'm not all-knowing. You should listen to what what he says starting at 8:30 in the video every morning before you...

I'm smart enough to know I'm not all-knowing. You should listen to what what he says starting at 8:30 in the video every morning before you start your daily onslaught of misinformed Vital posting.

Snapper wrote:

'Some of the facts in this episode may not be exact. Maybe they could simply be wrong'. I can't beleive he actually said that.

Team403 wrote:

Most professionals always give themselves a way out.

There's a good reason for that. The situation is complex and when you actually understand the nature of the complexities that you're dealing with, if you're halfway intelligent you'll have the intellectual humility to acknowledge that you don't know everything and are likely getting some things wrong if you're actually providing enough explanation and analysis to make it interesting. If all you do is state facts that can be known with a high degree of certainty, you're probably not saying anything very interesting or informative - to be interesting, you'll say things like "based on what I'm seeing, I think.....", knowing full well that you might not be seeing everything and that even if you are, what you think may happen may not actually happen. Informed and intelligent people tend to be intellectually humble. The most confident people I've known have tended to also be the stupidest. 

8
GrapeApe
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1/2/2025 9:13am
GrapeApe wrote:

Who is writing it off?

MxAddic wrote:
MXBen711 Posts279Joined2/1/2018LocationGB 12/24/2024 3:10am  This man’s well informed video that in the first 9 minutes states a lot the reporting is incorrect and that the laws in...

MXBen711

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12/24/2024 3:10am 
 

This man’s well informed video that in the first 9 minutes states a lot the reporting is incorrect and that the laws in Austria prevent real transparency so his video could be incorrect. I don’t disagree with that at all, I didn’t want past that

Got it one guy offended you 8 days ago and now "the vitards" are writing off the video. Geez man.

4
GrapeApe
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1/2/2025 9:15am
GrapeApe wrote:
I'm smart enough to know I'm not all-knowing. You should listen to what what he says starting at 8:30 in the video every morning before you...

I'm smart enough to know I'm not all-knowing. You should listen to what what he says starting at 8:30 in the video every morning before you start your daily onslaught of misinformed Vital posting.

Snapper wrote:

'Some of the facts in this episode may not be exact. Maybe they could simply be wrong'. I can't beleive he actually said that.

Nothing wrong with a disclaimer in this situation, he is right that nobody knows. Except MxAttic, of course.

3
GrapeApe
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1/2/2025 9:17am
Snapper wrote:

'Some of the facts in this episode may not be exact. Maybe they could simply be wrong'. I can't beleive he actually said that.

Team403 wrote:

Most professionals always give themselves a way out.

MPJC wrote:
There's a good reason for that. The situation is complex and when you actually understand the nature of the complexities that you're dealing with, if you're...

There's a good reason for that. The situation is complex and when you actually understand the nature of the complexities that you're dealing with, if you're halfway intelligent you'll have the intellectual humility to acknowledge that you don't know everything and are likely getting some things wrong if you're actually providing enough explanation and analysis to make it interesting. If all you do is state facts that can be known with a high degree of certainty, you're probably not saying anything very interesting or informative - to be interesting, you'll say things like "based on what I'm seeing, I think.....", knowing full well that you might not be seeing everything and that even if you are, what you think may happen may not actually happen. Informed and intelligent people tend to be intellectually humble. The most confident people I've known have tended to also be the stupidest. 

The most confident people I've known have tended to also be the stupidest. 

Couldn't agree more

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MxAddic
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1/2/2025 9:18am
GrapeApe wrote:

Nothing wrong with a disclaimer in this situation, he is right that nobody knows. Except MxAttic, of course.

I will be the first to say I don't think he has everything correct. Nice try.

The fact he did due diligence in investigating if the bankers get paid first seemed plausible enough to me but I guess you disagree.

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GrapeApe
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1/2/2025 9:26am Edited Date/Time 1/2/2025 9:27am
GrapeApe wrote:

Nothing wrong with a disclaimer in this situation, he is right that nobody knows. Except MxAttic, of course.

MxAddic wrote:
I will be the first to say I don't think he has everything correct. Nice try.The fact he did due diligence in investigating if the bankers...

I will be the first to say I don't think he has everything correct. Nice try.

The fact he did due diligence in investigating if the bankers get paid first seemed plausible enough to me but I guess you disagree.

You didn't say the bankers get paid first, you said "The bankers get 100% period. They will not be voting to accept 30%". Big difference.

By the way I watched the video and have no problem with it, a nice summary of the process and the possibilities. The only mistake I saw was when he said the 30% doesn't apply to the banks, I think he got some bad information from Vienna there.

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Gary Duck
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1/2/2025 9:28am
indy rider wrote:

IMO 58:00 minutes in is where the best insight to-date starts

.    

MxAddic wrote:

And the vitards are writing it of after 5 min. because of his disclaimer.

GrapeApe wrote:

Who is writing it off?

All these big companies, they write off everything.

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GrapeApe
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1/2/2025 9:29am
MxAddic wrote:

And the vitards are writing it of after 5 min. because of his disclaimer.

GrapeApe wrote:

Who is writing it off?

Gary Duck wrote:

All these big companies, they write off everything.

Everybody does it, Jerry!

13
MxAddic
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1/2/2025 9:30am
GrapeApe wrote:
You didn't say the bankers get paid first, you said "The bankers get 100% period. They will not be voting to accept 30%". Big...

You didn't say the bankers get paid first, you said "The bankers get 100% period. They will not be voting to accept 30%". Big difference.

By the way I watched the video and have no problem with it, a nice summary of the process and the possibilities. The only mistake I saw was when he said the 30% doesn't apply to the banks, I think he got some bad information from Vienna there.

The bankers will get 100% period. They are not going to vote to accept only 30%. What did I miss?

7
GrapeApe
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1/2/2025 9:35am Edited Date/Time 1/2/2025 9:36am
GrapeApe wrote:
You didn't say the bankers get paid first, you said "The bankers get 100% period. They will not be voting to accept 30%". Big...

You didn't say the bankers get paid first, you said "The bankers get 100% period. They will not be voting to accept 30%". Big difference.

By the way I watched the video and have no problem with it, a nice summary of the process and the possibilities. The only mistake I saw was when he said the 30% doesn't apply to the banks, I think he got some bad information from Vienna there.

MxAddic wrote:

The bankers will get 100% period. They are not going to vote to accept only 30%. What did I miss?

Can you explain how secured creditors will receive 100% if the debt is larger than the assets? Run through every possibility in your mind, or re-watch your video, and tell me how the bankers get 100% of their money out of this deal.

The only way that can happen is someone takes over ownership of the company and out of the goodness of their heart agrees to pay the banks in full. I mean, I guess it could happen.

15
MxAddic
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1/2/2025 9:40am
GrapeApe wrote:
Can you explain how secured creditors will receive 100% if the debt is larger than the assets? Run through every possibility in your mind, or re-watch...

Can you explain how secured creditors will receive 100% if the debt is larger than the assets? Run through every possibility in your mind, or re-watch your video, and tell me how the bankers get 100% of their money out of this deal.

The only way that can happen is someone takes over ownership of the company and out of the goodness of their heart agrees to pay the banks in full. I mean, I guess it could happen.

If someone is getting 13% it means the bankers got 100% first. You are welcome.

31

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