It seems like every day we get another thread about a track having issues, or complaints about track owners not allowing Karens to drive around the pits in their turbo SxS's and such. These can be great to bring awareness to the issues, but we need to take the next step. Let's try to figure out how to help some of these situations. I'm also thinking that if track owners/riders actually care, we can get together and do what the AMA isn't and that's source some experts and find solutions. I'm thinking that a lawyer would be a good first stop here, find a PI attorney and see what would make tracks harder to sue. Next, find someone who works with counties/governmental agencies and see how we can position tracks to make them less likely to get shut down.
I'll kick it off with an idea: why don't we make tracks membership based? This would be a question for the potential lawyer above, but you can't sue yourself in most instances. If you're a member of the track organization, would that make potential litigation harder to render? Could have different tiers like $5 day memberships/passes and year long passes as well.
This would also make it easier(maybe?) for tracks to sell things like punch cards/season passes. I don't see these offered often, and it seems like low hanging fruit in terms of raising a large chunk of money up front early in the season to cover the larger one time or front loaded costs that a track can have.
I think the key word is "Inherent Risk".
BLM land and a shovel is my solution.
There is inherent risk in everything that we do in life. The issue is track owners not policing/enforcing/caring about what goes on on their grounds and doing a (sometimes) poor job of protecting themselves in the event that things go wrong.
The insurance issues are simply a byproduct of the above. Insurances companies are there to asses risk and charge accordingly, it's when things get off the rails that they no longer want to participate as they have no mechanism to accurately asses things.
So your solution is to charge moto families, in an ever dying sport because of its high prices, more money??? You must like paying extra taxes with no difference in the outcome...because throwing money at it will not fix anything.
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Your comment fails to deliver as usual.
My solution is to charge appropriately and attempt to ensure that tracks stick around. It also doesn't have to be MORE money, just a different charge. Tracks already under charge IMO so another $5 on top would probably be a good thing.
You can't fix stupid. It's a social problem.
We are seeing the world through the microcosm of MX. Just as the case with KTM.
So, the Husky is in-charge of safety? 🤣
That's right, and trust me you don't want to break the rules with her around, you'll never hear the end of it! This is all that's left of the last guy who didn't follow the rules.
This is the elephant in the room, everyone wants to talk about these insurance companies being big bad meanies and nobody wants to talk about do nothing track owners who let people constantly rip around the pits on quads, SxS, pit bikes etc. creating unsafe situations that the insurance companies predictably want to avoid.
The responsibility has to go both ways. Track owners and operators have a responsibility to create a relatively safe environment too. Every time I read one of these stories about another kid getting hurt in the pits I just shake my head
Fair point. Maybe they need an IQ test at the gate along with the release form
I have some land in Iowa and was looking at opening up a members only as mentioned. Unfortunately, $5 per rider per day wouldn't even come close to break even. Then, you have the problems of people coming and going all day and early evenings...it becomes a real hassle security wise. I eventually just abandoned the idea. However, I find it absolutely astounding that people will invest $30,000 or more in moto every few years on new bikes, a truck, gear etc...but won't invest in a place to ride. Or, they bitch about the cost to ride at a track.
You have to sell annual memberships, something like 1000 bucks a year to ride, or however much it takes you to break even. There is a great track in Ogden Utah that uses this model and it works very well.
I was mentioning the $5 as a "membership fee" in addition to the $30-40 per day to ride. You would have t single it out like that to make it legitimate.
And your point about people being unwilling to invest in a place to ride is a good one. They'll spend $100 at the bar or $10 at starbucks on the way to the track, plus $100 for a pail of gas that won't help them go any faster, then bitch and moan about track fees. The secondary part of the membership idea was getting people to take some ownership of their riding areas. Probably slim to no chance of that happening, but getting some buy in would be a very good thing.
Last time I was @ lake Sugar Tree you had to have a membership or day pass as well as track fee. It has been a few years so I do not know now.
Tried of the public track idiocracy i bought some land and built a track. I stay out of the legal issues by following the Az statutes for public use of private land for recreational purposes.
As long as i do not contract with anyone charge a fee sign a waiver etc. I cannot be litigated as i have not used the legal system (law of the sea) but rather the lawful system (law of the land)
I have about 15 or so riders who frequenty come out to ride and they donate from 30 to 100 bucks to have an awesome track to ride whenever they like.
These are adults even though several of them are 17 to 20 years old but love the sport and appriciate having a place to rip it up.
There is no way to make a profit with a public track these days that offsets the liabilities so go private.
You won't make any profit there either but my goal was to give back to a sport that has given me years of pleasure and the donations really help me keep the track in top condition.
It's a win win for me and those who support my efforts. Why do it any other way.
That is so cool. I remember taking the time in my teens on open land near my house to shovel for hours to make a jump - then crash my brains out - then make the jump better.
Make people walk.
end of problem.
"Somehow" make signing a liability release actually release the track from liability ? What a concept eh ? We can sign on the line where it says ride at your own risk, motocross is a dangerous activity, track assumes no liability yada yada yada all day long but apparently none of that means shit when push comes to shove. Honestly I wonder why they even bother. People that don't and won't take responsibility for their choices and lawyers that are oh so ready to sue anyone and everyone when someone gets hurt are the biggest problem to overcome that I can see. The mentality of "It's someone else's fault" and "I need money now to cover my expenses" Just flat out sucks. Solutions ? I have no idea.
Maybe a required "Accident policy" over and above a standard health insurance policy to cover injuries while doing...... riskier ? activities. Like a "Accidental extreme sports injury" policy that everyone who steps foot on the property has to have purchased on their own ? I don't know anything about insurance just thinking out loud.
That and a little more common sense by the track owners, like maybe not having the track cross the start straight and then drop the 2nd gate too early, redesign blind jumps, safer "No penalty" landings, there a few things that could be done different to improve safety. But the biggest issue is who's fault is it I got hurt besides mine. I have no idea how to change that mindset
Pit Row
Even with the membership deal and people signing waivers, I was told by an 2 different attorneys that this is absolutely no guarantee you can't be sued. All they have to do is mention and prove the word negligence and you're kinda fu*ked as the property owner. You may win or lose, but it will be very expensive either way with a serious injury or worse. I really don't know how people allow others to ride on their property any longer. The attorneys are like fkng vultures with personal injury, wrongful death cases.
Yeah, I am addicted to building now. Of course it's what I always wanted to do , though I had visions of taking the standard route, club track etc. This has worked out beyond my wildest imagination with zero cost and I have shoveled/ridden in probably a dozen tracks and even more kickers in the last 4 years. The other positive, I haven't had to go the gym and my back is stronger than it ever was!
You can sue anyone at anytime for anything. Doesn't mean that it will be successful, but like you said billable hours are undefeated and it will be costly.
Insurance pools started way back when with people simply putting their money in a pot and using that to help pay for things that needed it like when a house burnt down. The Amish still do something similar when they have fires or big medical expenses. Maybe we can get a track organization going for something like this? Every track that wants to be a part of it puts in X amount(something like a couple grand). This is then used for outside counsel or to fight things like frivolous lawsuits that come up. Would be the first line of defense like a self insurance of sorts before it gets kicked to the larger insurance policy.
What I was really hoping for with this thread is creating some out of the box solutions like the above
No Footers fucking rule!
I don't have any bold out of the box solutions just a likely unpopular observation.
I road raced for many years and did a ton of practice days and races.
Compared to mx tracks the road race tracks seemed way more serious and less casual about cutting up and doing dumb shit overall.
Riders meeting were mandatory every day and rules were gone over ad nausea before bikes ever allowed on the track.
And there was enforcement for bad behavior.
But all that requires man power ..$$$
I know we all love our freedom and not being told how to behave what I'm willing to give up some ground if it means I still have a place to ride.
The course of action that should be done is for existing track owners to enforce proper pit area behavior and be willing to remove offenders from the property and make the "rules" painfully obvious because it's dumb and lazy that ruining it for the rest of us.
The solution is Tort Reform, legislation that doesn't hold land owners liable for stupid people like the equestrian facilities already have, and a heaping helping of personal responsibility. But that's all common sense so we know it's completely unfeasible in today's society.
I feel for you guys.
I can't comment on the American system of litigation, and if people aren't willing to take responsibility for their own behavior - and more importantly its consequences - well...fuck.
Some people have mentioned policing the pits, this seems absolutely necessary but if the money isn't there or the willingness, well...fuck.
One solution I absolutely do not recommend is inviting Bruce Jenner and his bimbos out for a ride day. One chipped nail or burst silicon tit and you'd be getting sued for every dime you had (Bruce is on the left).
If the insurance companies are sick of not making as much money as they’d like, you’d think they would be pushing it through
No reason to push. The money isn’t there. My local tracks hold 3 races a piece. Last I heard insurance was 3k for one race ONE accident say a broken leg would be over 3k for insurance to cover. Even with health insurance you and you’re employer may pay in 10k a year for you to have coverage one big surgery or anything and they are out way more then what you paid in. Insurance works if you and others pay in and their isn’t many claims at all. What has happened with mx is more claims are being made then what they are bringing in Example say one agency is getting 50k for the year from all the tracks they insure. Then ole Taylor comes along and hits them with a lawsuit and they pay him 98k plus lawyer fees. They are in it to make money not pay out money.
The track would go out of business if they did that because most dirt bike riders wouldn't pass.
Sooo... the solution is to put out a pressure washer and pad, charge 30 bucks for renting the washer and put signs everywhere that say no riding allowed? Works for me!
The grandstands, snack shack, and camping are for the people waiting for the wash.
Post a reply to: So many thread about problems, how about some solutions?