This AMA versus FIM thingy

Torco1
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Torco1 6/21/2010 2:50pm
6/21/2010 2:50pm
J.F.S wrote:
I wonder how soon it is til you have to be a FMX champ in order to earn respect as a MX rider?
Uh oh, are we comparing US FMXers and the rest of the world now? Tongue
Grendel
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Grendel 6/21/2010 3:39pm
6/21/2010 3:39pm
Grendel wrote:
I'm beginning to think the poor attendance at the USGP was more of a crushing blow then initially thought with all this clumsy, desperate rabble rousing...
I'm beginning to think the poor attendance at the USGP was more of a crushing blow then initially thought with all this clumsy, desperate rabble rousing.

Is it possible this insistence on combining the series is because no other tracks want to host the GPs after seeing the poor turnout at Glen helen?
500guy wrote:
I thought Glen Helen would have a good crowd, it was the same weekend the National was and given the whole drama aspect, I figured people...
I thought Glen Helen would have a good crowd, it was the same weekend the National was and given the whole drama aspect, I figured people would support it a lot more.

if they couldn't pull a crowd that time chances are they never will.
Threads like this confirm they feel the same.

When the underlying motivation being given for combining the series is "you guys won't do it because you're chicken" you just know there's dire events going on behind the scenes.
PressPassP
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PressPassP 6/21/2010 4:37pm
6/21/2010 4:37pm Edited Date/Time 6/21/2010 4:46pm
Damn this is getting outa hand! you could say "World Championship" is only a name but I guess the GP's have always been regarded as the "World championships" as it's been the longest established series (1957) and does take in races in countries like South Africa,Japan,USA as well as all over Europe,(it was originaly a European Championship but expanded ) The USA have their own National championships,as do GB and Italy,Belgium Australia,Canada etc have their own series its just that the AMA nationals are so big that they run alongside the GP's so there are always gonna be comparisons,but the 2 are very different and it's getting plain stupid,
Also I guess there's nothing stopping any rider entering either series?

The biggest single thing that attracts the Euros to the AMA is $$$$$$$$,does anyone think the GP riders would go AMA for a big paycut? That's why only those near the top get signed up,would Mitch Payton bring in a guy from the GP's that hardly places to five?? Nope it's the proven front runners that are usually established if you look at near all that have made the switch and personally I think it's awesome for the Nationals,it spices it up and adds interest to see new guys in the series,you gotta hand it to the GP's that they keep turning out some great riders,after the CP377 phenomenon,you have M&M,and waiting in the wings are Herlings and Roczen,with Frossard,Karro,Roelants,Verbruggen,Van Horebeek,Tonus all real fast and could make the move someday,Paulin was hugeley impressive at the MXoN,winning a Moto on a 450 with less experience on one than Dungey,the future looks bright for the Nationals for sure! Especially with kids like Wilson,Barcia,Tomac,Anstie etc coming up year after year too through the Amatuer program in the US

I have great respect for both sides,great riders,great racing is what it's all about,the MXoN proves this,although it's format is a little flawed,it brings it all together great,Iwas impressed at the USGP and next year I'll bet the attendance will be much bigger as it was added at pretty short notice but was a great advert for the Sport and hopefully it won't conflict with the Outdoors so more AMA riders can take part,back to the Glory days!!
Don't piss on either series cos they're both awesome and I guess any true MX fan wouldn't dispute that,and I'm sure a lot of comments on here are made in reaction to others or to wind people up, cos anyone who has thrown a leg over a bike would really know the score and have huge respect all round


(Ps Baseball has the "World Series" and is virtually non existent outside the country so don't read into the name thing too much huh?)


wreckitrandy
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wreckitrandy 6/21/2010 4:54pm
6/21/2010 4:54pm
PressPassP wrote:
Damn this is getting outa hand! you could say "World Championship" is only a name but I guess the GP's have always been regarded as the...
Damn this is getting outa hand! you could say "World Championship" is only a name but I guess the GP's have always been regarded as the "World championships" as it's been the longest established series (1957) and does take in races in countries like South Africa,Japan,USA as well as all over Europe,(it was originaly a European Championship but expanded ) The USA have their own National championships,as do GB and Italy,Belgium Australia,Canada etc have their own series its just that the AMA nationals are so big that they run alongside the GP's so there are always gonna be comparisons,but the 2 are very different and it's getting plain stupid,
Also I guess there's nothing stopping any rider entering either series?

The biggest single thing that attracts the Euros to the AMA is $$$$$$$$,does anyone think the GP riders would go AMA for a big paycut? That's why only those near the top get signed up,would Mitch Payton bring in a guy from the GP's that hardly places to five?? Nope it's the proven front runners that are usually established if you look at near all that have made the switch and personally I think it's awesome for the Nationals,it spices it up and adds interest to see new guys in the series,you gotta hand it to the GP's that they keep turning out some great riders,after the CP377 phenomenon,you have M&M,and waiting in the wings are Herlings and Roczen,with Frossard,Karro,Roelants,Verbruggen,Van Horebeek,Tonus all real fast and could make the move someday,Paulin was hugeley impressive at the MXoN,winning a Moto on a 450 with less experience on one than Dungey,the future looks bright for the Nationals for sure! Especially with kids like Wilson,Barcia,Tomac,Anstie etc coming up year after year too through the Amatuer program in the US

I have great respect for both sides,great riders,great racing is what it's all about,the MXoN proves this,although it's format is a little flawed,it brings it all together great,Iwas impressed at the USGP and next year I'll bet the attendance will be much bigger as it was added at pretty short notice but was a great advert for the Sport and hopefully it won't conflict with the Outdoors so more AMA riders can take part,back to the Glory days!!
Don't piss on either series cos they're both awesome and I guess any true MX fan wouldn't dispute that,and I'm sure a lot of comments on here are made in reaction to others or to wind people up, cos anyone who has thrown a leg over a bike would really know the score and have huge respect all round


(Ps Baseball has the "World Series" and is virtually non existent outside the country so don't read into the name thing too much huh?)


I don't know what CP makes riding for Mitch but, I doubt very seriously that it's more than he made as 'world champ'.

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PressPassP
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PressPassP 6/21/2010 5:00pm
6/21/2010 5:00pm Edited Date/Time 6/21/2010 5:04pm
PressPassP wrote:
Damn this is getting outa hand! you could say "World Championship" is only a name but I guess the GP's have always been regarded as the...
Damn this is getting outa hand! you could say "World Championship" is only a name but I guess the GP's have always been regarded as the "World championships" as it's been the longest established series (1957) and does take in races in countries like South Africa,Japan,USA as well as all over Europe,(it was originaly a European Championship but expanded ) The USA have their own National championships,as do GB and Italy,Belgium Australia,Canada etc have their own series its just that the AMA nationals are so big that they run alongside the GP's so there are always gonna be comparisons,but the 2 are very different and it's getting plain stupid,
Also I guess there's nothing stopping any rider entering either series?

The biggest single thing that attracts the Euros to the AMA is $$$$$$$$,does anyone think the GP riders would go AMA for a big paycut? That's why only those near the top get signed up,would Mitch Payton bring in a guy from the GP's that hardly places to five?? Nope it's the proven front runners that are usually established if you look at near all that have made the switch and personally I think it's awesome for the Nationals,it spices it up and adds interest to see new guys in the series,you gotta hand it to the GP's that they keep turning out some great riders,after the CP377 phenomenon,you have M&M,and waiting in the wings are Herlings and Roczen,with Frossard,Karro,Roelants,Verbruggen,Van Horebeek,Tonus all real fast and could make the move someday,Paulin was hugeley impressive at the MXoN,winning a Moto on a 450 with less experience on one than Dungey,the future looks bright for the Nationals for sure! Especially with kids like Wilson,Barcia,Tomac,Anstie etc coming up year after year too through the Amatuer program in the US

I have great respect for both sides,great riders,great racing is what it's all about,the MXoN proves this,although it's format is a little flawed,it brings it all together great,Iwas impressed at the USGP and next year I'll bet the attendance will be much bigger as it was added at pretty short notice but was a great advert for the Sport and hopefully it won't conflict with the Outdoors so more AMA riders can take part,back to the Glory days!!
Don't piss on either series cos they're both awesome and I guess any true MX fan wouldn't dispute that,and I'm sure a lot of comments on here are made in reaction to others or to wind people up, cos anyone who has thrown a leg over a bike would really know the score and have huge respect all round


(Ps Baseball has the "World Series" and is virtually non existent outside the country so don't read into the name thing too much huh?)


wreckitrandy wrote:
I don't know what CP makes riding for Mitch but, I doubt very seriously that it's more than he made as 'world champ'.
GP runners often have rich parents that actually pay for rides,purse money is more in the AMA and Sponsorship opportunities are way bigger though,Also with the SX series, CP is racing way more
sharkey
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sharkey 6/21/2010 5:18pm
6/21/2010 5:18pm
mxgeoff wrote:
Just wanted to point out that of all the riders who moved from GP to America only Tyla Rattray (from the current crop of leading riders)...
Just wanted to point out that of all the riders who moved from GP to America only Tyla Rattray (from the current crop of leading riders) was World Champ when he left.

All the others were number two in the World or worse, Pourcel (3rd) he was a distant second from Cairoli when he got hurt and dropped to third, Reed (2nd) Pichon smoked him every GP but one, Searle (2nd) Ratters beat him, Townley (3rd) beaten by Everts and Coppins.

The guys who beat Pourcel, Reed and Townley remained in Europe.

Just so you AMA fans know that the best still stayed in Europe. So if you are happy with what we have sent you so far, just imagine how good the guys who are still in Europe are.

Geoff
thats because if everts or the other two came over here they would have had a big 0 by the titles column so staying there they could win
wreckitrandy
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wreckitrandy 6/21/2010 5:22pm
6/21/2010 5:22pm
PressPassP wrote:
Damn this is getting outa hand! you could say "World Championship" is only a name but I guess the GP's have always been regarded as the...
Damn this is getting outa hand! you could say "World Championship" is only a name but I guess the GP's have always been regarded as the "World championships" as it's been the longest established series (1957) and does take in races in countries like South Africa,Japan,USA as well as all over Europe,(it was originaly a European Championship but expanded ) The USA have their own National championships,as do GB and Italy,Belgium Australia,Canada etc have their own series its just that the AMA nationals are so big that they run alongside the GP's so there are always gonna be comparisons,but the 2 are very different and it's getting plain stupid,
Also I guess there's nothing stopping any rider entering either series?

The biggest single thing that attracts the Euros to the AMA is $$$$$$$$,does anyone think the GP riders would go AMA for a big paycut? That's why only those near the top get signed up,would Mitch Payton bring in a guy from the GP's that hardly places to five?? Nope it's the proven front runners that are usually established if you look at near all that have made the switch and personally I think it's awesome for the Nationals,it spices it up and adds interest to see new guys in the series,you gotta hand it to the GP's that they keep turning out some great riders,after the CP377 phenomenon,you have M&M,and waiting in the wings are Herlings and Roczen,with Frossard,Karro,Roelants,Verbruggen,Van Horebeek,Tonus all real fast and could make the move someday,Paulin was hugeley impressive at the MXoN,winning a Moto on a 450 with less experience on one than Dungey,the future looks bright for the Nationals for sure! Especially with kids like Wilson,Barcia,Tomac,Anstie etc coming up year after year too through the Amatuer program in the US

I have great respect for both sides,great riders,great racing is what it's all about,the MXoN proves this,although it's format is a little flawed,it brings it all together great,Iwas impressed at the USGP and next year I'll bet the attendance will be much bigger as it was added at pretty short notice but was a great advert for the Sport and hopefully it won't conflict with the Outdoors so more AMA riders can take part,back to the Glory days!!
Don't piss on either series cos they're both awesome and I guess any true MX fan wouldn't dispute that,and I'm sure a lot of comments on here are made in reaction to others or to wind people up, cos anyone who has thrown a leg over a bike would really know the score and have huge respect all round


(Ps Baseball has the "World Series" and is virtually non existent outside the country so don't read into the name thing too much huh?)


wreckitrandy wrote:
I don't know what CP makes riding for Mitch but, I doubt very seriously that it's more than he made as 'world champ'.
PressPassP wrote:
GP runners often have rich parents that actually pay for rides,purse money is more in the AMA and Sponsorship opportunities are way bigger though,Also with the...
GP runners often have rich parents that actually pay for rides,purse money is more in the AMA and Sponsorship opportunities are way bigger though,Also with the SX series, CP is racing way more
That may well be the case but, Mitch is known to be a tough guy. I believe I remember correctly that, RC's first year contract with Mitch was for a reported 25k. Again, I don't know what CP makes. I hope it's a lot. He's earning whatever it is obviously but still, I'd be surprised if the world champ's dad was paying his way over there. Granted, if he keeps winning the stakes will go up considerably. Just like they did for RC for example. All in all though, I still think he took a pay cut to come ride for Mitch.
jeffro503
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jeffro503 6/21/2010 8:06pm
6/21/2010 8:06pm Edited Date/Time 6/21/2010 8:07pm
jeffro503 wrote:
One flaw in your Logic Geoff....... The USGP at GH was something that threw a curve ball. AC and MA were battling at around the same...
One flaw in your Logic Geoff.......



The USGP at GH was something that threw a curve ball. AC and MA were battling at around the same speeds....maybe AC was a hair faster....and Mike was definitely on his game!



Explain to me how in the hell Townley not only caught them both , but yarded them by 15 seconds to take the win. He was in his own league that day!



Townley is a bad ass for sure...........probably my favorite rider right now because of the way he rides.



But look at where he is finishing racing against RD and Reed.......what if RV would have been there?



that's where your logic is a little flawed. I think AC would be fighting to get up on the box.....and that wouldn't be the top step.



But that's my opinion.
mxgeoff wrote:
Hey, you could be right, we are all just having our own opinion. About BT, he was just back from injury, he must have been pumped...
Hey, you could be right, we are all just having our own opinion. About BT, he was just back from injury, he must have been pumped to be racing Cairoli who many were saying was the best in the World due to his moto win over Reed and Dungey at the MXoN and his opening moto win. I think BT rode an amazing race with a lot to prove. He deserved to win no doubt about it.

Is Cairoli faster than Dungey, NOBODY know's, is he the fastest in the World, NOBODY knows', but it works that way for Dungey, is he the fastest in the World, well last time they both finished a race Cairoli had his number, and while I will admit Dungey did amazing considering he had been on 250's the whole year.

I think there is nothing in it. If the GP guys races a few Nationals might do well at first (same as the Townley motivation thing at GH) and like Rattray is now finally find their good speed and do similar as to what they did in GP. If Dungey came to the World Championship he might win some, and finish top five in some. But at the end of the day, NOBODY knows.

Geoff
Well....thanks Geoff for your honest opinion. I KNOW Townley was definitely on his game at the USGP , but it was a good indication of where certain riders kind of sit in speed with each other. As of late , Townley has been about that far ahead of Mike in almost every moto...or more.



And with him finishing where he is at in the nationals.......It's hard to believe how AC could pick up that much speed to match him....let alone beat Reed and RD.



I do respect AC a bunch though...so don't get me wrong.. And like DC told me the other day....AC always finds a way of finding his speed.



Anyways.........not sure why some guys are being so harsh in this thread , but I appreciate your honest opinion.
txmxer
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txmxer 6/21/2010 8:52pm
6/21/2010 8:52pm
jeffro503 wrote:
One flaw in your Logic Geoff....... The USGP at GH was something that threw a curve ball. AC and MA were battling at around the same...
One flaw in your Logic Geoff.......



The USGP at GH was something that threw a curve ball. AC and MA were battling at around the same speeds....maybe AC was a hair faster....and Mike was definitely on his game!



Explain to me how in the hell Townley not only caught them both , but yarded them by 15 seconds to take the win. He was in his own league that day!



Townley is a bad ass for sure...........probably my favorite rider right now because of the way he rides.



But look at where he is finishing racing against RD and Reed.......what if RV would have been there?



that's where your logic is a little flawed. I think AC would be fighting to get up on the box.....and that wouldn't be the top step.



But that's my opinion.
mxgeoff wrote:
Hey, you could be right, we are all just having our own opinion. About BT, he was just back from injury, he must have been pumped...
Hey, you could be right, we are all just having our own opinion. About BT, he was just back from injury, he must have been pumped to be racing Cairoli who many were saying was the best in the World due to his moto win over Reed and Dungey at the MXoN and his opening moto win. I think BT rode an amazing race with a lot to prove. He deserved to win no doubt about it.

Is Cairoli faster than Dungey, NOBODY know's, is he the fastest in the World, NOBODY knows', but it works that way for Dungey, is he the fastest in the World, well last time they both finished a race Cairoli had his number, and while I will admit Dungey did amazing considering he had been on 250's the whole year.

I think there is nothing in it. If the GP guys races a few Nationals might do well at first (same as the Townley motivation thing at GH) and like Rattray is now finally find their good speed and do similar as to what they did in GP. If Dungey came to the World Championship he might win some, and finish top five in some. But at the end of the day, NOBODY knows.

Geoff
jeffro503 wrote:
Well....thanks Geoff for your honest opinion. I KNOW Townley was definitely on his game at the USGP , but it was a good indication of where...
Well....thanks Geoff for your honest opinion. I KNOW Townley was definitely on his game at the USGP , but it was a good indication of where certain riders kind of sit in speed with each other. As of late , Townley has been about that far ahead of Mike in almost every moto...or more.



And with him finishing where he is at in the nationals.......It's hard to believe how AC could pick up that much speed to match him....let alone beat Reed and RD.



I do respect AC a bunch though...so don't get me wrong.. And like DC told me the other day....AC always finds a way of finding his speed.



Anyways.........not sure why some guys are being so harsh in this thread , but I appreciate your honest opinion.
it appears to me that the top 5(? maybe more) in either series are close in speed right now.

The RC's, JBS, or Everts are unique. They don't come along everyday. RV might have that kind of speed, but, some of his injuries may keep us from ever knowing it. RD may turn out to have that kind of speed. I think he needs someone to pace off of to see just how fast he can go. When James and RV get back, it will be interesting.

Goof...you made all kinds of backhanded comments about the AMA series. This is backpedaling. I agree with what you said, but, it's disingenuous to start saying it now after the crap you said earlier. Might be time to let it rest.

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the_wood109 6/21/2010 9:23pm
6/21/2010 9:23pm
Grendel wrote:
I'm beginning to think the poor attendance at the USGP was more of a crushing blow then initially thought with all this clumsy, desperate rabble rousing...
I'm beginning to think the poor attendance at the USGP was more of a crushing blow then initially thought with all this clumsy, desperate rabble rousing.

Is it possible this insistence on combining the series is because no other tracks want to host the GPs after seeing the poor turnout at Glen helen?
500guy wrote:
I thought Glen Helen would have a good crowd, it was the same weekend the National was and given the whole drama aspect, I figured people...
I thought Glen Helen would have a good crowd, it was the same weekend the National was and given the whole drama aspect, I figured people would support it a lot more.

if they couldn't pull a crowd that time chances are they never will.
Grendel wrote:
Threads like this confirm they feel the same. When the underlying motivation being given for combining the series is "you guys won't do it because you're...
Threads like this confirm they feel the same.

When the underlying motivation being given for combining the series is "you guys won't do it because you're chicken" you just know there's dire events going on behind the scenes.
Am I mistaken, or wasn't there a multi year deal that fell through in the past for attendance reasons? (budds maybe?)


GH should have had better numbers, but it didn't. I think its going to take AMA, MXsports, ect. to work on a few aspects of that particular race. It's nothing that hasn't been said before. I think first off it needs more time for success, this might include taking a loss!

Perhaps change the date until after the nats, get some top US riders out there, and embrace it as a big deal. I know I criticized MXA for their 180, but perhaps that is the right approach? Honestly...do these series compete for anything besides riders? Maybe some sponsorship dollars..... but if the US nats get the correct type of TV deal, this will be less of an issue.

I think you guys are right, too much competition between series. I'm just not sure if it is because of pride or legitimate business reasons.

The fans are one thing....I think DV said it best. "The internet community is only a small portion of fans" or something to that effect.

I love watching the GPs, and I love watching the nats....its gonna take some teamwork. Global Economy comes to mind.
JW381
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JW381 6/21/2010 9:27pm
6/21/2010 9:27pm
At least we can all agree that outdoor MOTOCROSS trumps supercross. After watching videos from High Point, it amazes me that people think Supercross is even cool.

There is nothing better than outdoor motocross, here or there.
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ocscottie 6/21/2010 9:46pm
6/21/2010 9:46pm
JW381 wrote:
At least we can all agree that outdoor MOTOCROSS trumps supercross. After watching videos from High Point, it amazes me that people think Supercross is even...
At least we can all agree that outdoor MOTOCROSS trumps supercross. After watching videos from High Point, it amazes me that people think Supercross is even cool.

There is nothing better than outdoor motocross, here or there.
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Bookmark 6/22/2010 1:13am
6/22/2010 1:13am
mxgeoff wrote:
Just wanted to point out that of all the riders who moved from GP to America only Tyla Rattray (from the current crop of leading riders)...
Just wanted to point out that of all the riders who moved from GP to America only Tyla Rattray (from the current crop of leading riders) was World Champ when he left.

All the others were number two in the World or worse, Pourcel (3rd) he was a distant second from Cairoli when he got hurt and dropped to third, Reed (2nd) Pichon smoked him every GP but one, Searle (2nd) Ratters beat him, Townley (3rd) beaten by Everts and Coppins.

The guys who beat Pourcel, Reed and Townley remained in Europe.

Just so you AMA fans know that the best still stayed in Europe. So if you are happy with what we have sent you so far, just imagine how good the guys who are still in Europe are.

Geoff
Why are you guys all fighting between one another. Europe has some dam good riders. Mainly outdoor Motocross riders, because they don't have a Europen Supercross series (besides France, they have a Supercross series) .
America has dam good Motocross riders also and the great Supercross riders. American jumped ahead of Europen riders when American Supercross bettered their skill level and I think made them better in Motocross. As you can see by looking at when America started winning the Motocross des Nations and winning quit many of them since 1981 or what ever it was.
But American fans and Europen fans are going to have their own take on who's faster and who's better, but the riders decide who's best when they race Motocross des Nations.
I do have a point here and it's not to choose a side, it's to say who the hell cares. Racing is racing and we get to watch all the best riders every weekend on TV, on the internet or even live, so we are the winners.
Chad Reed is the big mouth idiot that you guys should talking shit on and not each others riders (American or Europen). Why would he have to say something like that? Just to do what everyones doing, fighting! While he sits back and laughs at you guys bitching and saying my riders are better. Let's focus on Mr. Chad Reed. He's thoughing the Outdoor Championship in the trash can because Dungey is killing his ass moto after moto and he's looking pretty stupid running around with that #1 plate and not being able to anything about that Suzuki rider with the Red number plates.
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Old Mate 6/22/2010 1:55am
6/22/2010 1:55am
Chad praises his days in Europe, said it toughened him as a rider and he learnt a lot, think the language differences was the negative and the fact his dream was to be an AMA SX champ, not the diff between riders in Euro or outdoor AMA.
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mxgeoff 6/22/2010 2:05am
6/22/2010 2:05am
mxgeoff wrote:
Hey, you could be right, we are all just having our own opinion. About BT, he was just back from injury, he must have been pumped...
Hey, you could be right, we are all just having our own opinion. About BT, he was just back from injury, he must have been pumped to be racing Cairoli who many were saying was the best in the World due to his moto win over Reed and Dungey at the MXoN and his opening moto win. I think BT rode an amazing race with a lot to prove. He deserved to win no doubt about it.

Is Cairoli faster than Dungey, NOBODY know's, is he the fastest in the World, NOBODY knows', but it works that way for Dungey, is he the fastest in the World, well last time they both finished a race Cairoli had his number, and while I will admit Dungey did amazing considering he had been on 250's the whole year.

I think there is nothing in it. If the GP guys races a few Nationals might do well at first (same as the Townley motivation thing at GH) and like Rattray is now finally find their good speed and do similar as to what they did in GP. If Dungey came to the World Championship he might win some, and finish top five in some. But at the end of the day, NOBODY knows.

Geoff
jeffro503 wrote:
Well....thanks Geoff for your honest opinion. I KNOW Townley was definitely on his game at the USGP , but it was a good indication of where...
Well....thanks Geoff for your honest opinion. I KNOW Townley was definitely on his game at the USGP , but it was a good indication of where certain riders kind of sit in speed with each other. As of late , Townley has been about that far ahead of Mike in almost every moto...or more.



And with him finishing where he is at in the nationals.......It's hard to believe how AC could pick up that much speed to match him....let alone beat Reed and RD.



I do respect AC a bunch though...so don't get me wrong.. And like DC told me the other day....AC always finds a way of finding his speed.



Anyways.........not sure why some guys are being so harsh in this thread , but I appreciate your honest opinion.
txmxer wrote:
it appears to me that the top 5(? maybe more) in either series are close in speed right now. The RC's, JBS, or Everts are unique...
it appears to me that the top 5(? maybe more) in either series are close in speed right now.

The RC's, JBS, or Everts are unique. They don't come along everyday. RV might have that kind of speed, but, some of his injuries may keep us from ever knowing it. RD may turn out to have that kind of speed. I think he needs someone to pace off of to see just how fast he can go. When James and RV get back, it will be interesting.

Goof...you made all kinds of backhanded comments about the AMA series. This is backpedaling. I agree with what you said, but, it's disingenuous to start saying it now after the crap you said earlier. Might be time to let it rest.

You must be pretty thin skinned to think I wrote anything that was crap. Can you point out what I actually said that wasn't true??

I think the AMA series rules, Pourcel might just be the fastest MXer in the World, but on the other hand it might also be Dungey or Cairoli.

I don't get how people here try and make it look like I am trying to make the AMA series look bad, it's not, it's great!!!

Bookmark
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Bookmark 6/22/2010 2:26am
6/22/2010 2:26am
Old Mate wrote:
Chad praises his days in Europe, said it toughened him as a rider and he learnt a lot, think the language differences was the negative and...
Chad praises his days in Europe, said it toughened him as a rider and he learnt a lot, think the language differences was the negative and the fact his dream was to be an AMA SX champ, not the diff between riders in Euro or outdoor AMA.
Then why did he say "America rules and Europe sucks"? Those were his words. Everyone has seen the video of him at the Budds Creek post race press meeting saying this. If he praises his days in Europe, why would he say something so negative about Europe. By him saying "Europe Sucks" wrapped everything in Europe up in one group, the lauguage, the people, the races, the food, race events, race tracks, race promoters, everything. He didn't single any one thing out and in Chad Reed's opition all of Europe sucks.

I for one have many friends in Europe. I have traveled to Europe many times and have always enjoyed Europe, the poeple were very nice to me and I always found good food to eat. Sometimes I had to look pretty hard, but we would always find what we needed. But I am an American and spoiled.

Just bummed Reed would talk that way about Europen in general, when Europe gave him his start and put him in the limelight to be able to come to America.
mxgeoff
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mxgeoff 6/22/2010 2:43am
6/22/2010 2:43am
Old Mate wrote:
Chad praises his days in Europe, said it toughened him as a rider and he learnt a lot, think the language differences was the negative and...
Chad praises his days in Europe, said it toughened him as a rider and he learnt a lot, think the language differences was the negative and the fact his dream was to be an AMA SX champ, not the diff between riders in Euro or outdoor AMA.
Bookmark wrote:
Then why did he say "America rules and Europe sucks"? Those were his words. Everyone has seen the video of him at the Budds Creek post...
Then why did he say "America rules and Europe sucks"? Those were his words. Everyone has seen the video of him at the Budds Creek post race press meeting saying this. If he praises his days in Europe, why would he say something so negative about Europe. By him saying "Europe Sucks" wrapped everything in Europe up in one group, the lauguage, the people, the races, the food, race events, race tracks, race promoters, everything. He didn't single any one thing out and in Chad Reed's opition all of Europe sucks.

I for one have many friends in Europe. I have traveled to Europe many times and have always enjoyed Europe, the poeple were very nice to me and I always found good food to eat. Sometimes I had to look pretty hard, but we would always find what we needed. But I am an American and spoiled.

Just bummed Reed would talk that way about Europen in general, when Europe gave him his start and put him in the limelight to be able to come to America.
Aussies love USA, Euro's love Europe. It's not that difficult. You know about the food, remember one of my first trips to Europe I couldn't eat what they served me up. Now when I go to America I struggle with the food. It's all about culture and what you are used to. Chad is an Aussie and is used to USA stuff far more than Europe.

If he meant what he said, then it's a pity, because he pissed on a lot of people who helped him and liked him.
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jamma10 6/22/2010 2:49am
6/22/2010 2:49am Edited Date/Time 6/22/2010 2:52am
jeffro503 wrote:
One flaw in your Logic Geoff....... The USGP at GH was something that threw a curve ball. AC and MA were battling at around the same...
One flaw in your Logic Geoff.......



The USGP at GH was something that threw a curve ball. AC and MA were battling at around the same speeds....maybe AC was a hair faster....and Mike was definitely on his game!



Explain to me how in the hell Townley not only caught them both , but yarded them by 15 seconds to take the win. He was in his own league that day!



Townley is a bad ass for sure...........probably my favorite rider right now because of the way he rides.



But look at where he is finishing racing against RD and Reed.......what if RV would have been there?



that's where your logic is a little flawed. I think AC would be fighting to get up on the box.....and that wouldn't be the top step.



But that's my opinion.
mxgeoff wrote:
Hey, you could be right, we are all just having our own opinion. About BT, he was just back from injury, he must have been pumped...
Hey, you could be right, we are all just having our own opinion. About BT, he was just back from injury, he must have been pumped to be racing Cairoli who many were saying was the best in the World due to his moto win over Reed and Dungey at the MXoN and his opening moto win. I think BT rode an amazing race with a lot to prove. He deserved to win no doubt about it.

Is Cairoli faster than Dungey, NOBODY know's, is he the fastest in the World, NOBODY knows', but it works that way for Dungey, is he the fastest in the World, well last time they both finished a race Cairoli had his number, and while I will admit Dungey did amazing considering he had been on 250's the whole year.

I think there is nothing in it. If the GP guys races a few Nationals might do well at first (same as the Townley motivation thing at GH) and like Rattray is now finally find their good speed and do similar as to what they did in GP. If Dungey came to the World Championship he might win some, and finish top five in some. But at the end of the day, NOBODY knows.

Geoff
jeffro503 wrote:
Well....thanks Geoff for your honest opinion. I KNOW Townley was definitely on his game at the USGP , but it was a good indication of where...
Well....thanks Geoff for your honest opinion. I KNOW Townley was definitely on his game at the USGP , but it was a good indication of where certain riders kind of sit in speed with each other. As of late , Townley has been about that far ahead of Mike in almost every moto...or more.



And with him finishing where he is at in the nationals.......It's hard to believe how AC could pick up that much speed to match him....let alone beat Reed and RD.



I do respect AC a bunch though...so don't get me wrong.. And like DC told me the other day....AC always finds a way of finding his speed.



Anyways.........not sure why some guys are being so harsh in this thread , but I appreciate your honest opinion.
You dont think that it had anything to do with the fact that Townley rides Glen Helen all the time and was fresh and full of energy after DNFing the first moto?

The GP riders had what, a reduced 10 minute practice and a 20 minute qualifying race to learn the circuit - regarded as maybe the knarliest and certainly longest track in the world. Whereas Townley probably knows the place as well as anyone.

Clement Desalle, Marc De Reuver, Gareth Swanepoele and Ken DeDycker have proved they can run the same positions at the Nationals as they do in the GP's. The racing is much closer than alot of you guys seem to want to accept.

Pit Row

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txmxer
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txmxer 6/22/2010 4:00am
6/22/2010 4:00am
mxgeoff wrote:
You must be pretty thin skinned to think I wrote anything that was crap. Can you point out what I actually said that wasn't true?? I...
You must be pretty thin skinned to think I wrote anything that was crap. Can you point out what I actually said that wasn't true??

I think the AMA series rules, Pourcel might just be the fastest MXer in the World, but on the other hand it might also be Dungey or Cairoli.

I don't get how people here try and make it look like I am trying to make the AMA series look bad, it's not, it's great!!!

Im thin skinned for pointing out that you are diseningeniuos? Come on Goof, you go on about Tony being the best MXer in the world. "you" sent your second tier riders over, but CP may be the fastest? You are a hack. This isnt personal. Maybe you are a good guy in real life. Anything is possible. On the net, you atir crap and disrespect mx.
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edub 6/22/2010 4:53am
6/22/2010 4:53am
JW381 wrote:
At least we can all agree that outdoor MOTOCROSS trumps supercross. After watching videos from High Point, it amazes me that people think Supercross is even...
At least we can all agree that outdoor MOTOCROSS trumps supercross. After watching videos from High Point, it amazes me that people think Supercross is even cool.

There is nothing better than outdoor motocross, here or there.
Finally, a very good word!

edub
mxgeoff
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mxgeoff 6/22/2010 5:02am
6/22/2010 5:02am
mxgeoff wrote:
You must be pretty thin skinned to think I wrote anything that was crap. Can you point out what I actually said that wasn't true?? I...
You must be pretty thin skinned to think I wrote anything that was crap. Can you point out what I actually said that wasn't true??

I think the AMA series rules, Pourcel might just be the fastest MXer in the World, but on the other hand it might also be Dungey or Cairoli.

I don't get how people here try and make it look like I am trying to make the AMA series look bad, it's not, it's great!!!

txmxer wrote:
Im thin skinned for pointing out that you are diseningeniuos? Come on Goof, you go on about Tony being the best MXer in the world. "you"...
Im thin skinned for pointing out that you are diseningeniuos? Come on Goof, you go on about Tony being the best MXer in the world. "you" sent your second tier riders over, but CP may be the fastest? You are a hack. This isnt personal. Maybe you are a good guy in real life. Anything is possible. On the net, you atir crap and disrespect mx.
I wrote that most the guys we sent to USA were often not World Champions when we sent them, it as more a statement that we always hear how the best from the GP's are in America.

Secondly it's my job to make the sport interesting. To mention that Cairoli is the best in the World isn't that bold a statement, it might just be right, but at the end of the day saying he is the best in the World adds to the excitement of the MXoN.

Maybe Pourcel is the fastest in the World, maybe it's Dungey, but at the end of the day I am happy with the job I do for the sport, and for you to say I disrespect the sport is just so far wrong.

My Musquin story about his wanting to go to a National this year is about giving publicity and trying to build up the USA versus FIM thing, because at the end of the day it's the most interesting aspect of the sport.

And I am a great guy......
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DC 6/22/2010 5:08am
6/22/2010 5:08am Edited Date/Time 6/22/2010 5:34am
Townley hasn't ridden anywhere Often in the last three years. He's been injured. But I don't think one can point at any one series race and say it was the end-all statement of who is the best in the world. Tony won the first moto and the overall and took more points home than anyone, which was his goal. He wins championships because he thinks and rides like a champion. He didn't lose his crown to Ken De Dycker over the weekend, even though he lost both it was just it was just a race, and Ken won.



What's going on here is a constant and unfortunate diminishing of the MXoN and the AMA series by people who would rather have every top rider and team go ride in their series. When thread after thread talks about "the AMA versus FIM thingy" it's obvious that it's meant to get the conversation going in a let's-get-them-all-together series. But they do get together, in the Motocross of Nations every year, which keeps getting diminished here....



And I am sorry Geoff but Ryan Dungey won the MX1 class last year, not Tony. So you say "but Tony dominated the first moto....". And when RV won in England, you discount thatvas "but Tony won the second mto...." So why the hell doesn't Townley's moto win at the USGP count the same?



DC

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mxgeoff
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mxgeoff 6/22/2010 5:12am
6/22/2010 5:12am
DC wrote:
Townley hasn't ridden anywhere Often in the last three years. He's been injured. But I don't think one can point at any one series race and...
Townley hasn't ridden anywhere Often in the last three years. He's been injured. But I don't think one can point at any one series race and say it was the end-all statement of who is the best in the world. Tony won the first moto and the overall and took more points home than anyone, which was his goal. He wins championships because he thinks and rides like a champion. He didn't lose his crown to Ken De Dycker over the weekend, even though he lost both it was just it was just a race, and Ken won.



What's going on here is a constant and unfortunate diminishing of the MXoN and the AMA series by people who would rather have every top rider and team go ride in their series. When thread after thread talks about "the AMA versus FIM thingy" it's obvious that it's meant to get the conversation going in a let's-get-them-all-together series. But they do get together, in the Motocross of Nations every year, which keeps getting diminished here....



And I am sorry Geoff but Ryan Dungey won the MX1 class last year, not Tony. So you say "but Tony dominated the first moto....". And when RV won in England, you discount thatvas "but Tony won the second mto...." So why the hell doesn't Townley's moto win at the USGP count the same?



DC

MX Sports
DC,

It does count the same, who said it didn't?

What I don't understand is why is it so weird of me to want to see all the AMA guys and FIM guys racing two or three GP's. How is that wrong???

Geoff
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MCfan4life 6/22/2010 5:19am
6/22/2010 5:19am
Almost 4 pages of yet another FIM vs AMA thread and not a bear in sight......





Hey there's one ....
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broman64 6/22/2010 5:21am
6/22/2010 5:21am
DC wrote:
Townley hasn't ridden anywhere Often in the last three years. He's been injured. But I don't think one can point at any one series race and...
Townley hasn't ridden anywhere Often in the last three years. He's been injured. But I don't think one can point at any one series race and say it was the end-all statement of who is the best in the world. Tony won the first moto and the overall and took more points home than anyone, which was his goal. He wins championships because he thinks and rides like a champion. He didn't lose his crown to Ken De Dycker over the weekend, even though he lost both it was just it was just a race, and Ken won.



What's going on here is a constant and unfortunate diminishing of the MXoN and the AMA series by people who would rather have every top rider and team go ride in their series. When thread after thread talks about "the AMA versus FIM thingy" it's obvious that it's meant to get the conversation going in a let's-get-them-all-together series. But they do get together, in the Motocross of Nations every year, which keeps getting diminished here....



And I am sorry Geoff but Ryan Dungey won the MX1 class last year, not Tony. So you say "but Tony dominated the first moto....". And when RV won in England, you discount thatvas "but Tony won the second mto...." So why the hell doesn't Townley's moto win at the USGP count the same?



DC

MX Sports
yea, why?..
BMan-
DC
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DC 6/22/2010 5:44am
6/22/2010 5:44am
Sorry about the typos, working on an iPad on a bench outside the house...

You just want to see them all race three GPs? How about have all of the other fast GP guys that aren't here yet just come here and race three nationals? What's the difference?

Where's the why-didn't-all-the-Euro-stars-race-Hangtown thread? its because we respect their decision to conduct their careers as they see fit and not keep pushing them to ride somewhere they don't want to.

And finally, you're saying Townley's second moto win makes him the best in the world? I thought you were on here saying he wasn't a true great a couple days ago because he didn't stick around Europe long enough...

DC
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Whitey
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Whitey 6/22/2010 5:50am
6/22/2010 5:50am
Hey DC and Geoff, i think you guys should go on Matthes show and have "The Great Debate". That would be pretty bloody good!
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GuyB 6/22/2010 5:54am
6/22/2010 5:54am
wreckitrandy wrote:
That may well be the case but, Mitch is known to be a tough guy. I believe I remember correctly that, RC's first year contract with...
That may well be the case but, Mitch is known to be a tough guy. I believe I remember correctly that, RC's first year contract with Mitch was for a reported 25k. Again, I don't know what CP makes. I hope it's a lot. He's earning whatever it is obviously but still, I'd be surprised if the world champ's dad was paying his way over there. Granted, if he keeps winning the stakes will go up considerably. Just like they did for RC for example. All in all though, I still think he took a pay cut to come ride for Mitch.
I'm going to take a WAG and say that if Pourcel was making $25K, that was his base salary, and he probably made a whole lot more than that by the time you factored in win bonuses.

Basically I look at all this recent us vs. them chatter as laying the groundwork for trying to raise the visibility and interest of the GP series here in U.S., since there will be more races here in the future. I know we've heard of two confirmed for next year, and I keep hearing rumors of three...and most of that is coming from the GP teams themselves.

Now here's some speculation on my part...

One of the things that has made the MXoN so cool is how infrequently our top guys and their top guys and their top guys get together. If we ever truly merge full fields from each side, some guys from each side who are used to being front-runners suddenly become midpack guys.

Also, that infrequency is a big part of what has made the MXoN so cool. Do we end up sacrificing some of that?

Obviously both series have growth aspirations (though I don't think we'll see any MX Nationals overseas anytime soon), but I hope we find that both the U.S. and GP series can elevate the visibility of the sport together, without trying to tear each other down.
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GuyB 6/22/2010 6:02am
6/22/2010 6:02am
BLAHBLAH wrote:
I would agree the average fan has less kowledge of the GP's, but I think they would still be interested to see who the top stars...
I would agree the average fan has less kowledge of the GP's, but I think they would still be interested to see who the top stars of the GP circuit ride. They probably just didn't want to pay $100+ to do so. Especially when they can pay $40 to go watch a national.
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GuyB 6/22/2010 6:04am
6/22/2010 6:04am
Whitey wrote:
Hey DC and Geoff, i think you guys should go on Matthes show and have "The Great Debate". That would be pretty bloody good!
DC vs. Geoff? Make it DC vs. Luongo, and you might have something there.

Post a reply to: This AMA versus FIM thingy