Arming teachers in the classroom... I am one

Interesting subject.

Especially as an arsenal owner.

Teachers these days deal with the results of bad parenting far more than when I was growing up.

Two long time grade school teachers in my family. 

Both "retired".

Both say they really miss the good kids.

Both say they began feeling more at risk even from the kids as young as the ones they were teaching. 

And from their parents as well.

One is a gun owner, and pretty good shot.

Hunted off and on with her dad growing up.

Never talked with either about carrying in class.

But...

She would be the one you'd want carrying.

Reading in the news about the ones having "relations" with students, makes me think some don't have the mental capacity to carry.

Then reading about teachers being brutally assaulted. 

Damn dude, that's a tough question.

Just as is any serious gun rights issue.

Because you look around and realize that not everyone should, just because you can.

Just a few thoughts to add to the discussion in no particular order.

My ex is a teacher. We had numerous discussions about this I also spoke to some of her peers/friends about it during get togethers, etc.

-I think it would be a mistake to require carrying to be employed as a teacher. Anyone who carries needs to have the right mindset to do so, and a willingness to make the very difficult decision to use deadly force if necessary. It’s reasonable to expect law enforcement and military recruits to have this mindset as a condition of employment…I’m not sure we want to do the same with teachers.

-Those who do want to carry should be allowed to do so. That said, there needs to be a robust training program for those that do, not only in standard range proficiency testing, but CQB and the unique considerations of using a projectile-based deadly weapon in crowded areas with numerous innocent lives. 
 

-consideration should be given to firearm choice, limitations, ammunition selection, etc. Since schools’ budgets are typically strapped (no pun intended…), perhaps use owner supplied firearms, subject to pre-defined calibers, models, etc. The schools should supply the ammunition to ensure consistency.

-Schools will also need to plan ahead as to whether they will replace a teacher-supplied weapon in the event of a shooting. At least in my area, that weapon is going away to evidence for anywhere from 1-5 years while the legal side works itself out. 
 

-A lot of focus in these discussions te da to be on what happens if bullets are flying and whether an armed staff member makes the situation safer or not. These are very important considerations, to be sure. I would counter, however, with the fact that if an active shooter starts up, every second that goes by is another likely killing. Historically, these suspects have given up or taken their own life as soon as armed opposition is imminent. Having that armed opposition within the school from the beginning will inevitably save many lives. Further, my hope would be that these would stop happening in the first place due to the knowledge by the suspects that the schools have armed staff, and thus the schools are no longer attractive targets.

-To reiterate a prior point in relation to my last one, the correct commitment and mindset need to be present (see Uvalde for what happens when it’s not, even with LE). 

They never should have removed the paddle from the classroom. It seems to me the kids were better behaved when it was there.

In theory it makes sense, I have children in school and would have no issue with teachers carrying . However there is many layers to peel when discussing teachers being armed . Teachers are underpaid for the role they already have ,now we want them to be competent marksman who are willing to end a threat with deadly physical force . 

Yes, except I don’t want to pay your Liberal, Leftist, Socialist ass to be trained in Weapons. 

“The Paddle”, ended my High School career. Senior year, I had gone to Army Basic and AIT between Junior and Senior year. That was a mistake, you can’t go be treated like a man, than return to being treated like a child. Anyhoo, on with the story. 
 

It was right after lunch, Science with Coach Knotts. We were having the after lunch settling down problems. Coach said something to me, I said something back. He said, “I’ll take you to the office and paddle your ass”. I looked him right in the eyes and said, “We can go out in the parking lot and fistfight like men, you ain’t hitting me with no stick”. Needless to say, he just stood there mouth agape. 

I got pulled by my hair in 3rd grade and pushed into the bleachers by my throat in 6th grade both by teachers ,I didn't dare go home and tell my parents ,my father would have whooped my ass worse then either of those teachers probably  wanted to LoL

Lol I got my hair pulled in 3rd grade too , I'm 57 . The class was being punished for something or other and we were supposed to be quiet and keep our heads down . I raised my head to look around and as luck would have it she was right behind me lol . She grabbed a handful of hair on the back of my head and forced my head back down . Miss Getch . Scary old woman . I didn't tell my parents either .

I'm still stuck in my 1988(the year I graduated) utopia where we did not have a school resource officer and i never once heard a student cuss out a teacher let alone lay hands on one. There was from time to time a teacher had to grab a student by the arm but they deserved it. The worst drug there was was marijuana and some kids smoked at lunch time.

My step son graduated in 2012 in the same town with a police officer walking about the school, students regularly cussing out teachers and the teacher unable to lay hands on the student, just pointing and repeating that the student needed to go to the principles office. I know a teacher at one of the poorer middle schools who gets threatened by parents

Now they are proposing teachers carry guns? Sheesh 

Let’s take Uvalde for instance, where the trained police, acted like chicken shit cowards. How do you think your average, soft ass teacher is going to respond? 
 

A coward with a weapon, is still a coward.
 

Reminds me of the “Hero” in El Paso. Armed military member, hiding behind a group of kids, instead of seeking out and engaging the shooter. 
 

Nobody can say what they’ll do, until the bullets start flying.

To follow-up on the gentleman’s critically important points…

1. I don’t think we’re talking “mandatory requirement”…and if so…we shouldn’t be. I believe the teachers we're discussing would have the “option to carry”…and as such…

2. Let’s understand that we’re also talking about one serous as hell “background check requirement” and a dedicated and very serious set of “law enforcement officer level” standards for said check. Why? We’re talking about arming people that spend their day with our children…we’re going to put a pistol in their hand. Knowing the state’s current methods in this arena, it’ll be at least a 9mm and most likely a .40 cal with 10-16 rounds in it (it’s very possible to legislatively cover these weapons on the same level as LEO’s…so, there may not be a 10 round limit). That’s a helluva lot of Deadly Force. So…That’s why we’d need to THOROUGHLY check these people out…and I’d suspect there are more than a few that won’t make the cut. 

3.,Training. We’re talking about a need for serious tactical level training. Again…our kids...in a class room…with civilians that we’ve put there as armed protectors. Period. 

That’s a serious responsibility and it requires extremely serious and thorough training. Serious… Tactical… Training. 

4. The Politics…I can’t see this happening in California. We’ve gone way to far into the world of political stupidity. The far left & “anti-gun” kooks along with their insane politics can be seen in our current laws that LITERALLY ALLOW OPEN THEFT and VIOLENT CRIMINALS TO GO UNPUNISHED…AGAIN… violent criminals to go UNPUNISHED…etc., etc., etc. …

Common sense is dead, here, in California. I see it all too often and in too many locales. I travel this state from top to bottom a coupl’a times a month…at the very least. The insanity is pervasive and it’s gonna take a serious change in the political leadership for anything like this to take place.

All that aside, my answer is,”Hell YES!” 

So you’re going to deny the fact that your average “indoctrinater”, isn’t a BLM/ANTIFA supporting, pride flag hanging, left leaning, socialist wannabe?  

Personally, I’d be for the dissolution of all government learning institutions. Give me my tax money back and let me decide who educates my children. 

Home schooling is becoming quite popular these days . It's gotten to the point mom and dad can still work full time jobs and home school their kids . Parents have created a system where they workout a schedule of which house the kids will attend on what day of the week. It certainly sounds like a good alternative to what some of these kids are being force fed nowadays. 

ABsoFUCKingLOOOTly.......YES!    This would pretty much eliminate the soft-targeting of schools by the cowards that go into them hell bent on killing innocents.    

It shouldn't be mandatory....as there are some idiots where it would be worse to have a firearm....but the option to carry should be given to teachers.    Of course a legitimate competency test and regular testing should be a requirement. 

I'm in the "maybe" group. I don't have a problem with people carrying guns on campus, as long as they are trained and known. Maybe certified in some way. Perhaps a faculty registry of some kind? (Normally I don't agree with gun registration, either, so there's where one of the "maybes" comes in.) 

Clearly, schools are a soft target. They need to be made into a much harder target, and arming somebody would help. (Or a few somebodies.) 

We should also take additional measures to prevent school shootings. I think getting onto campus should be as hard as getting on an airplane, for instance. I've heard lots of people argue that "We don't need our schools to be like prisons," but yeah, we kinda do, apparently.

I read the whole thing but voted no after the first sentence. You had to add “I don’t complain about California so I’m different than everyone else”  in a topic like this ?  Guns are as serious as it gets in our little world and I don’t think they belong in the hands of everyone. Just my opinion. 
  I’d rather have a 2 or 3 trained guards posing as janitors, the principle maybe a coach or two. But not every person on the payroll. Honestly I don’t think that should be your guys job    Hope I didn’t sound too smart assy there. So what do you think OP ? You are the one who is the closest to it what do you think ? 

In 6th grade I was being my ADHD riddled younger self that couldn't focus on class. My teacher was a type 1 diabetic who didn't monitor his blood sugar, so those two worlds collided one day and he literally grabbed with two hands around the throat and started choking me. I did go home and tell my parents and my Dad just asked what I did to piss him off like that. Right or wrong it taught me a lesson. I pretty much straightened up after that. 

Parents are the problem nowadays, not the kids. Parents really fucked up on how they raised their kids starting in the late 90's because they weren't going to raise their kids the way they were raised and here we are with a youth that knows nothing but entitlement and disrespect.

Social media is just the icing on the cake. That being said, I agree it takes a special individual to be able to be calm and collected in a situation where having a sidearm is neccesary.

Just because someone is a teacher doesn't mean that someone isn't also unhinged. Very few probably fit that category, but they're there. I had a teacher when I was a kid (in the 70s) who was a psychotic bully. When I was in the sixth grade, a few kids and I were goofing off and the guy knocked our heads together so hard that I was dizzy for a while after (I was in the middle and he grabbed the other kids by the hair and slammed their heads into mine). Another kid had a damaged ear from this guy pulling it so hard. Wouldn't want that asshole armed - really anywhere. I'd love to run into him now (if he's still alive) to ask him if he felt like a big man abusing kids. I'm not some pussy who doesn't think teachers should be stern. My parents used corporal punishment and I would never say that I was abused. But corporal punishment shouldn't cause a concussion or permanent injury. An unhinged asshole who, like the teacher I had, who is a fucking coward who likes to feel like a tough guy by bullying kids, is better not having a gun. As an aside, a friend of mine (from a less than ideal home situation) once had enough of this guy's shit and kicked him square in the balls. The guy did literally fucking nothing (the parents were called and my friend was suspended, but no physical retaliation at the time - my friend just casually walked out and started walking home) - as one would expect from a coward.  

On the other hand, if select teachers were allowed to carry, then maybe fewer mass shootings, and that's a great outcome. The trouble is: How do you select them? One school mass shooting is too many, so if there's a way to safely implement deterrents, then that would be great. 

I'm in Canada so none of this is a conversation here. In fact, the Toronto police (I don't live anywhere near Toronto - I'm in the prairies where the culture is much different) advised the public to leave their car keys near the door so they're easy for thieves to find if they're after your car - to avoid a dangerous confrontation. That's fucked up. But so is being too quick to shoot a person who is on your property uninvited. I've got to think that most people are somewhere in the sensible middle - If a trespasser or intruder is a threat, do whatever you have to to defend yourself. But don't kill random strangers who are lost and wander onto your property or accidentally come to the wrong address. I grew up on a farm with multiple rifles always handy and the thought of shooting anyone never entered anyone's mind.

Qualified immunity...justified immunity, now teacher immunity?  Just another poisonous ingredient into the bubbling caldron known as public education.  Spend time, research, money on tactical armed drones instead, take the human factor out of it.   

Who is flying the drone?

i voted yes, the reason schools are hot spots is because they are soft targets. knowing that a teacher may be able to end it when it starts might make some idiot think twice about selecting the school as a target.

i don't know man, i also think it's fucking tragic to even have to have this kind of a conversation.

That last sentence nailed it. 

Before I write anything else and people get their panties twisted; I am a gun owner. I like shooting guns. I was also a student at NIU living within 100 yards of the shooting there in 2008, and was supposed to have a class in that exact classroom the night of the shooting.  My little sister was also a Purdue engineering student when there was a murder within that department. 

My parents had to sit by a phone and wonder if their child was shot.  Twice. 

I think this is a very complicated problem.  I'll agree with the poster above that I would rather schools have a highly trained security/response team than encouraging teachers to carry firearms. I think expecting a teacher to maintain their ability to teach students while also being hypervigilant about their firearm is a lot. Children are impetuous and impulsive beings and I feel that just introducing firearms as a constant within the classroom is asking for disaster. I've seen videos of handcuffed criminals disarming police officers and now I'm imagining a teacher breaking up a fight, having 20+ children around, and now there's a gun somewhere. Furthermore, I don't think that guns as a constant would help students learn or feel safer. 

After my school's shooting, I drove home. Nancy Grace was on the TV with footage of the police response at the hall I should have been sitting in. She was shouting that we need metal detectors at every door. "Totally infeasible," my dad said. He was in law enforcement. That one building had 15+ doors and was one of god knows how many buildings on campus.  Imagine the increase in manpower and expense just to operate the school, for literally almost no gain in security. 

Ultimately, my view is pretty cynical and dark.  Simply put, tragedy is the price of life. We all want to believe we're immune, that we're in control.  The reality is if someone wants to kill me and is willing to die to accomplish that goal, there's not a lot I or anyone else can do about it. Look at the proportion of people who do these sort of crimes and kill themselves. If that's the plan, how could someone else shooting them be a deterrent.  And so it goes, if a teacher is armed, and a kid (or anyone) decides that he wants to do harm, all he has to do is get the drop on the teacher. 

Sorry, living in the real world, the answer is no.  I know several teachers and 0% of them are the type to want to carry a gun.  That is so far from what they signed up for.  I also have a little girl, so if you ask if there should be competent security present then the answer is yes. 

That said, schools have trouble paying for supplies to properly teach kids so I'm not sure where security money is going to come from.

Oh look, I got a Soy Boy Participation Award!