The GPs are the better series.....

jamma10
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jamma10 4/26/2010 3:41pm
4/26/2010 3:41pm
mxwrench66 wrote:
For sure the Lites class in america is deeper! I just think europe has never had this much young talent at once. I agree that Canard...
For sure the Lites class in america is deeper! I just think europe has never had this much young talent at once. I agree that Canard and Pourcel are the two best lites riders in world along with Musquin. Barcia has the speed of those 3 IMO maybe even more raw speed than anyone for that matter but he has yet to show any consistency. On another note roczen is the most mature 15 year old I have ever encountered. His strong mentality and his ability to remain smooth under pressure reminds me of Trey. Also he actually shifts his bike which is refreshing. I came over here with alot of respect for the gp's and the riders and still I had under estimated the talent here. There is no way of knowing until you have seen both sides. Thats why i can respect Davey and Davids posts.
joe101uk wrote:
Canard is awesome but i wouldn't say he's on the same level as Pourcel. When was the last time Canard completed a motocross season ?
mxwrench66 wrote:
Just wait homie! enough said.
Canard is fast as hell! Thats pretty obvious, but I dont think he has the nouse or the race craft that CP does yet - but thats where Pourcels experience counts.
ocscottie
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ocscottie 4/26/2010 3:45pm
4/26/2010 3:45pm
Why is it so hard to agree that there is an abundance of talent on both sides? Common sense always gets tossed out the window in these arguments.
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raddad 4/26/2010 4:01pm
4/26/2010 4:01pm
FreshTopEnd wrote:
I don't know; watched Mantova and that track was worked between motos. I think this "we don't work the tracks" angles is a bit of a...
I don't know; watched Mantova and that track was worked between motos. I think this "we don't work the tracks" angles is a bit of a myth that get played.

I definitely agree that SX affects the field by the time the racing comes around. It always has; maybe it will when YS and the FIM follow through on their plan to run the GPs after SX rather than head to head with it in the early part of the GP season.
joe101uk wrote:
They work on the holeshot and the faces of some jumps. Everything else is left untouched.
FreshTopEnd wrote:
They had worked the corners Malin reported at one point.. But what you're saying is that they in fact do not leave the track alone if...
They had worked the corners Malin reported at one point.. But what you're saying is that they in fact do not leave the track alone if it needs attention.

And I think tis notion that the US tracks are constantly smoothed during the day is way overblown. Couple things; in the last decade of going to nats, the only real offense to the roughness of a track that I saw that went beyond what I thought was a safety issue was smoothing a high speed straight past the finish at Southwick (and even that wasn't enough to help DeReuver finish the moto without pooping out Wink ) IMO sand tracks should be

I hate seeing whoops taken out I dont have a real issue with ruts getting put down because in most cases at most tracks they aren't a natural feature; they're the byproduct of ripping the track deep and watering it to keep dust down. I don't think anyone objects to the improvements in dust suppression.

So I think this whole don't work tracks/work tracks distinction is more myth than fact.

I don't understand the OP notion that all the US tracks have the same dirt. All the west coast races are pretty different, as are Texas, Millville, Red Bud and Budds Creeks. Unadilla ain't Hangtown.

The GP's have great racing and great riders. They're especially good when SX is the option here. I can't get enough outdoor racing.

joe do you know what a "holeshot" is? jeeseussssss! you should be ashamed.. you're no MX fan or racer if you don't even understand the difference between a start and a holeshot.. when you understand the basics then come back and maybe what you have to say will mean something.
Trent179
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Trent179 4/26/2010 4:12pm
4/26/2010 4:12pm
The best riders race in the states in the begining or try to make it here, in my opinion..

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raddad
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raddad 4/26/2010 4:23pm
4/26/2010 4:23pm
DC wrote:
We did the sensible thing: We named each one after the maximum CCs allowed! That means 250 and 450, right? I know what you mean on...
We did the sensible thing: We named each one after the maximum CCs allowed! That means 250 and 450, right?

I know what you mean on the injuries too. We've had a tough run the last couple of years here to say the least. It's a HUGE change from when you just knew that RC was going to show up every single weekend, which he did for ten years outdoors.

DC
MX Sports
DC i have to disagree with you on the naming of the classes. VERY short sighted.

Based on history the size of motors change with time and will change again and in fact are changing... MX1 and MX2 are far more fitting and well thought out. Frankly i could not believe what i read when i saw the new names you decided to use! I know you did a survey online but you could have taken into consideration the kind of NON racing people that replied and how they hate the Euros.

In a few years things may change and then what? The 350 class and the 144 class? Or the 390 class and the 233 class? Bad business IMO...

Oh and thanks for the help with my son and when we raced the day before the national at millville last year!
joe101uk
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joe101uk 4/26/2010 4:25pm
4/26/2010 4:25pm
joe101uk wrote:
They work on the holeshot and the faces of some jumps. Everything else is left untouched.
FreshTopEnd wrote:
They had worked the corners Malin reported at one point.. But what you're saying is that they in fact do not leave the track alone if...
They had worked the corners Malin reported at one point.. But what you're saying is that they in fact do not leave the track alone if it needs attention.

And I think tis notion that the US tracks are constantly smoothed during the day is way overblown. Couple things; in the last decade of going to nats, the only real offense to the roughness of a track that I saw that went beyond what I thought was a safety issue was smoothing a high speed straight past the finish at Southwick (and even that wasn't enough to help DeReuver finish the moto without pooping out Wink ) IMO sand tracks should be

I hate seeing whoops taken out I dont have a real issue with ruts getting put down because in most cases at most tracks they aren't a natural feature; they're the byproduct of ripping the track deep and watering it to keep dust down. I don't think anyone objects to the improvements in dust suppression.

So I think this whole don't work tracks/work tracks distinction is more myth than fact.

I don't understand the OP notion that all the US tracks have the same dirt. All the west coast races are pretty different, as are Texas, Millville, Red Bud and Budds Creeks. Unadilla ain't Hangtown.

The GP's have great racing and great riders. They're especially good when SX is the option here. I can't get enough outdoor racing.

raddad wrote:
joe do you know what a "holeshot" is? jeeseussssss! you should be ashamed.. you're no MX fan or racer if you don't even understand the difference...
joe do you know what a "holeshot" is? jeeseussssss! you should be ashamed.. you're no MX fan or racer if you don't even understand the difference between a start and a holeshot.. when you understand the basics then come back and maybe what you have to say will mean something.
Hahaha ! Did you not understand what i was saying ?
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raddad 4/26/2010 4:33pm
4/26/2010 4:33pm
FreshTopEnd wrote:
They had worked the corners Malin reported at one point.. But what you're saying is that they in fact do not leave the track alone if...
They had worked the corners Malin reported at one point.. But what you're saying is that they in fact do not leave the track alone if it needs attention.

And I think tis notion that the US tracks are constantly smoothed during the day is way overblown. Couple things; in the last decade of going to nats, the only real offense to the roughness of a track that I saw that went beyond what I thought was a safety issue was smoothing a high speed straight past the finish at Southwick (and even that wasn't enough to help DeReuver finish the moto without pooping out Wink ) IMO sand tracks should be

I hate seeing whoops taken out I dont have a real issue with ruts getting put down because in most cases at most tracks they aren't a natural feature; they're the byproduct of ripping the track deep and watering it to keep dust down. I don't think anyone objects to the improvements in dust suppression.

So I think this whole don't work tracks/work tracks distinction is more myth than fact.

I don't understand the OP notion that all the US tracks have the same dirt. All the west coast races are pretty different, as are Texas, Millville, Red Bud and Budds Creeks. Unadilla ain't Hangtown.

The GP's have great racing and great riders. They're especially good when SX is the option here. I can't get enough outdoor racing.

raddad wrote:
joe do you know what a "holeshot" is? jeeseussssss! you should be ashamed.. you're no MX fan or racer if you don't even understand the difference...
joe do you know what a "holeshot" is? jeeseussssss! you should be ashamed.. you're no MX fan or racer if you don't even understand the difference between a start and a holeshot.. when you understand the basics then come back and maybe what you have to say will mean something.
joe101uk wrote:
Hahaha ! Did you not understand what i was saying ?
The staring area, straight, the dirt, the track,first turn is NOT the holeshot joe.. the man that gets to the first turn in first place "gets the holeshot".. You do not work on the holeshot with a dozer! I lived in the UK for some time and my family is English so i don't have anything against you because of where you live but come on man, get it rightSmile
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joe101uk 4/26/2010 4:39pm
4/26/2010 4:39pm
raddad wrote:
joe do you know what a "holeshot" is? jeeseussssss! you should be ashamed.. you're no MX fan or racer if you don't even understand the difference...
joe do you know what a "holeshot" is? jeeseussssss! you should be ashamed.. you're no MX fan or racer if you don't even understand the difference between a start and a holeshot.. when you understand the basics then come back and maybe what you have to say will mean something.
joe101uk wrote:
Hahaha ! Did you not understand what i was saying ?
raddad wrote:
The staring area, straight, the dirt, the track,first turn is NOT the holeshot joe.. the man that gets to the first turn in first place "gets...
The staring area, straight, the dirt, the track,first turn is NOT the holeshot joe.. the man that gets to the first turn in first place "gets the holeshot".. You do not work on the holeshot with a dozer! I lived in the UK for some time and my family is English so i don't have anything against you because of where you live but come on man, get it rightSmile
You clearly understood what i was talking about though didn't you. The holeshot sounds better than the start straight anyway haha.

What's a staring area ? Wink
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joe101uk 4/26/2010 4:52pm
4/26/2010 4:52pm
Albee702 wrote:
Herlings and Roczen are just amazing in my book. 15 years old and winning is insane! But I do think that AMA has the GP's beat...
Herlings and Roczen are just amazing in my book. 15 years old and winning is insane! But I do think that AMA has the GP's beat in the depth department in the 250f class. It seems to me like GP's have
Musquin
Herlings
Roczen
Paulin(injured)
Frossward(spelling)
Simpson
Tonus
Zack, who by the way was on the gas this weekend and had a shot at the podium if he would have stayed on two wheels.

In America you have...
Canard(2008 east sx champ)
Pourcel (world champ, two time east sx champ)
Rattray (world champ)
Searle (vice world champ)
Weimer (soon to be west sx champ and national winner)
Barcia (National winner/ Beast from the East)
Wharton (holeshot master/ hell of a racer)
Tomac ( I think will surprise a lot of people)
Tickle (seattle sx winner)
Stroupe (fastest at the races when he is on and not hurt)
Anstie (was roczen rival in europain amateur racing/ very young)
wilson (horizon winner)
Baggett (Dallas sx winner)
Hahn (new team, new attitude)
Izzi (could be fast, could be done)
Davalos (Great starter, so fast at times)

Note, Davalos and Rattrey would be out of the age limit in the GP's

Both series have good racers no doubt! But you won't see Roczen and Herlings in the US for another three years so I'm sure this will be a topic until then! lol


What about the MX1 class compared to the AMA 450 class ?

How are you liking it over here now ? Any hairy armpit ladies tickled your fancy yet ?
S2H
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S2H 4/26/2010 4:54pm
4/26/2010 4:54pm
I think top riders are going to be top or close to just about anywhere they race. I think their mindset will make them adapt wherever they are. Jimmy Albertson and Zach Osbourne are top ten maybe better in the US and they are similar in the GPs. I didnt think they were going to be contenders when they went over seas. I think stewart, carmichael, Villopoto, etc would be up there if they did travel overseas. Saying that, I think Cairoli would be right around the front of the pack over here also if he came to stay. Talent is talent, this can be a forever revolving argument if people don't see it that way
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Alex 4/26/2010 5:03pm
4/26/2010 5:03pm Edited Date/Time 4/26/2010 5:08pm
So we're all agreed then - the GPs are better
jamma10
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jamma10 4/27/2010 9:23am
4/27/2010 9:23am Edited Date/Time 4/27/2010 9:24am
S2H wrote:
I think top riders are going to be top or close to just about anywhere they race. I think their mindset will make them adapt wherever...
I think top riders are going to be top or close to just about anywhere they race. I think their mindset will make them adapt wherever they are. Jimmy Albertson and Zach Osbourne are top ten maybe better in the US and they are similar in the GPs. I didnt think they were going to be contenders when they went over seas. I think stewart, carmichael, Villopoto, etc would be up there if they did travel overseas. Saying that, I think Cairoli would be right around the front of the pack over here also if he came to stay. Talent is talent, this can be a forever revolving argument if people don't see it that way
I firmly believe that a fully focussed James Stewart is the fastest guy in the world outdoors and that the next best 10 from both series are all perfectly capable of beating each other. Yes one rider might dominate on a particular weekend, but thats just how it goes in racing. Sometimes a rider is just 'on it', but that would even itself out over a season.
ayearinmx
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ayearinmx 4/27/2010 9:54am
4/27/2010 9:54am
you don't actually list a single "fact"....... well other than the:

"the GP's are great, they've got great riders, and great racing." line Wink
joe101uk
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joe101uk 4/27/2010 10:04am
4/27/2010 10:04am
ayearinmx wrote:
you don't actually list a single "fact"....... well other than the:

"the GP's are great, they've got great riders, and great racing." line Wink
I'm sure i've had a argie bargie with this guy before over what was the rougher track. Lommel or Southwick. Guess what track he was sticking up for ?

Might of been a different guy though.
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Titan1 4/27/2010 10:17am
4/27/2010 10:17am
ayearinmx wrote:
you don't actually list a single "fact"....... well other than the:

"the GP's are great, they've got great riders, and great racing." line Wink
joe101uk wrote:
I'm sure i've had a argie bargie with this guy before over what was the rougher track. Lommel or Southwick. Guess what track he was sticking...
I'm sure i've had a argie bargie with this guy before over what was the rougher track. Lommel or Southwick. Guess what track he was sticking up for ?

Might of been a different guy though.
Must have been a different guy....I don't recall that argument.

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themrtoad 4/27/2010 11:55am
4/27/2010 11:55am
Alex wrote:
I dont think Pourcel would 'dominate' anything in Europe. Hes quick in SX but outdoors he was never that fast. He pretty much fluked his title...
I dont think Pourcel would 'dominate' anything in Europe. Hes quick in SX but outdoors he was never that fast. He pretty much fluked his title in Europe by avoiding DNFs. He won 4 motos that year. Tyla won 5, David won 6 and Cairoli won 13 motos.


In 2007 up untill the Irish GP he had won 4 motos and Cairoli had won 19 motos. He wasnt in the same class as AC. Hes done well to come back to the speed he has after the injury but to assume he would 'dominate' MX2 GPs is a bit far fetched I think.
I totally agree with you. Pourcel won a championship, but not exactly by going 24-0, pretty much the opposite. Cairoli was way faster, so was Philippaerts. Pourcel was like Rattray in speed but a better starter
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hairy 4/27/2010 12:04pm
4/27/2010 12:04pm
themrtoad wrote:
I totally agree with you. Pourcel won a championship, but not exactly by going 24-0, pretty much the opposite. Cairoli was way faster, so was Philippaerts...
I totally agree with you. Pourcel won a championship, but not exactly by going 24-0, pretty much the opposite. Cairoli was way faster, so was Philippaerts. Pourcel was like Rattray in speed but a better starter
I've seen some crap, but that takes the prize. Cri was as fast as he needed to be all through 2006 and controlled the series from beginning to end. He was still faster than Cairoli in 2007, but Mr Innocent kept putting the kid in the fence !
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joe101uk 4/27/2010 12:10pm
4/27/2010 12:10pm
themrtoad wrote:
I totally agree with you. Pourcel won a championship, but not exactly by going 24-0, pretty much the opposite. Cairoli was way faster, so was Philippaerts...
I totally agree with you. Pourcel won a championship, but not exactly by going 24-0, pretty much the opposite. Cairoli was way faster, so was Philippaerts. Pourcel was like Rattray in speed but a better starter
hairy wrote:
I've seen some crap, but that takes the prize. Cri was as fast as he needed to be all through 2006 and controlled the series from...
I've seen some crap, but that takes the prize. Cri was as fast as he needed to be all through 2006 and controlled the series from beginning to end. He was still faster than Cairoli in 2007, but Mr Innocent kept putting the kid in the fence !
Pourcel deserved his championship in 2006 by being consistent. How did you figure that Pourcel was quicker in 2007 ? Do you actually think that.....

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mxwrench66
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mxwrench66 4/27/2010 1:13pm
4/27/2010 1:13pm
James Stewart is the fastest person on a motocross bike PERIOD! There is no valid argument to that FACT!!! He would win the US national series, or the GP series by a landslide if he chose to race.
Spode
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Spode 4/27/2010 1:53pm
4/27/2010 1:53pm
joe101uk wrote:
Someone will find a way to argue with everything you just said.

joe101uk wrote: World GP are long boring races, closer to an Enduro race than a MX race!


agree 101%
jamma10
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jamma10 4/27/2010 2:15pm
4/27/2010 2:15pm
Road racing is a completely different sport.

Joe's point is that 'Motocross' has a much larger market in America than any other country on the planet and the nucleus of the MX industry is based in Cali. It may still feel like a niche sport to you guys, but the only other country that could boast a serious MX following is Belgium, which has a population of around 10m.
joe101uk
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joe101uk 4/27/2010 2:52pm
4/27/2010 2:52pm
joe101uk wrote:
Someone will find a way to argue with everything you just said.
Spode wrote:

joe101uk wrote: World GP are long boring races, closer to an Enduro race than a MX race!


agree 101%
Who took the jam out of your donut porky ?
mxwrench66
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mxwrench66 4/27/2010 3:01pm
4/27/2010 3:01pm
Joe,
How many times have you actually seen stewie ride?....and guess what? I do think he could have gone perfect in the gps in 08. Cairoli is one bad dude but is never that much faster than the rest of the field. Bubba was consistently 4 seconds a lap faster than the second fastest guy ever round. We will see how Jimmy and Ken stack up at hangtown. I cant wait!
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joe101uk 4/27/2010 3:10pm
4/27/2010 3:10pm
mxwrench66 wrote:
Joe, How many times have you actually seen stewie ride?....and guess what? I do think he could have gone perfect in the gps in 08. Cairoli...
Joe,
How many times have you actually seen stewie ride?....and guess what? I do think he could have gone perfect in the gps in 08. Cairoli is one bad dude but is never that much faster than the rest of the field. Bubba was consistently 4 seconds a lap faster than the second fastest guy ever round. We will see how Jimmy and Ken stack up at hangtown. I cant wait!
I've seen Stewart ride 5 times. How many times have you seen him ride ?

I think Jimmy will do good. I don't want to make any predictions on Ken because he is the most unpredictable guy ever haha.

I don't think James would of gone perfect in 2008, i think he would of gone back to America after round 2....did you see that race ?
MXEditor
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MXEditor 4/27/2010 5:18pm
4/27/2010 5:18pm
Yeah but which series has hotter chicks?

Çause that's what really matters.

Photos please.
Alex
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Alex 4/27/2010 6:28pm
4/27/2010 6:28pm Edited Date/Time 4/27/2010 6:31pm
When Tommy jumped off his 'Works' KTM and onto the US version at Budds Creek he said the US bike was so much better. Of course an unrestricted bike is gonna perform better than a restricted one. GP bikes are not really 'Works' in the way they used to be in the 80s either. Odd bits and pieces like EFI a year early maybe, but thats about it.
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DownSouth 4/27/2010 7:17pm
4/27/2010 7:17pm
If Luongo's new schedule comes to be you guys can kiss your GP "depth" goodbye when all the GP guys get busted up trying SX. Just like our guys get banged up every year.

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